Stephen Kenny

[pineapple stu]

The English u21 manager, who if he does well may be in line to take over the senior job in due course?

Can't see us prising him away

[CSAD]

The English u21 manager, who if he does well may be in line to take over the senior job in due course?

Can't see us prising him away

Well he’s Irish so he might, he’s far more likely than an employed manager in the PL/CH.

It’s the only name that would make any sense replacing Kenny if we are replacing him as the other managers will take us back to the Stone Age most likely.

[osarusan]

The English u21 manager, who if he does well may be in line to take over the senior job in due course?

Can't see us prising him away

He'd hardly move straight from one job to the other - a position as a club manager would come first, or even, as senior manager of a weaker team might be just what he is looking for.

But if he does a good job he'll have options, and Ireland are not an attractive option at the moment I guess.

[pineapple stu]

Southgate moved from 21s to senior.

If I were him, I'm not sure I'd take the chance of stepping out of a succession path to a better job really. It'd be a tough sell for us I think.

[Diggs246]

Southgate moved from 21s to senior.

If I were him, I'm not sure I'd take the chance of stepping out of a succession path to a better job really. It'd be a tough sell for us I think.

Southgate was a household name in England before his appointment to the seniors. Im not sure the FA could sell lee carsley to their sponsors, fans and media.

I think he would take the Irish job if offered, but I would prefer Michael O Neil.

[pineapple stu]

True, but his only club job saw him get Middlesbrough relegated. Not especially high-profile for the England role.

[Diggs246]

True, but his only club job saw him get Middlesbrough relegated. Not especially high-profile for the England role.

I think all of the below would be better than Stephen.

Rooney
Carsley
Michael O neill
Anthony Barry

[Jd2793]

I think all of the below would be better than Stephen.

Rooney
Carsley
Michael O neill
Anthony Barry

why would any of them take this job?

[CSAD]

For me this weekend could be the game that will define Kenny with Ireland, we already know now that Duffy went against the game plan meaning it’s time for Kenny to be ruthless, if he keeps Duffy after that and we end up losing at home to Scotland than that will surely be the end of the road for Kenny and tbh the way things are going he needs to win the match as Scotland themselves are going into this match with question marks too (for me Clarke for Scotland reminds me a lot of Martin O’Neills WCQ campaign in 2016-2018 as in he’s getting results but those results are papering over a lot of cracks in regards to the way Scotland play). I’ve been a Kenny fan all along but last night was worrying considering he made all the same mistakes in Yeravan.

[third policeman]

I think all of the below would be better than Stephen.

Rooney
Carsley
Michael O neill
Anthony Barry

Maybe it shouldn’t be a consideration, but it would be helpful to have a manager who was able to attract dual nationals - especially English born players who have drifted away from us in recent years. Having a profile and creating a sense that we’re an international option with a prospect of getting to tournaments. I know that this will offend some people who don’t want mercenaries playing for us etc, but if a player has options it’s a consideration. Not suggesting that it’s a major consideration, but it would be an advantage when international teams are now competing to attract talent.

[Stav]

Look at the caliber of player we have at the moment. That's the real problem. No one to put the ball in the net. Be realistic about what we have at the moment.

[CSAD]

Southgate moved from 21s to senior.

If I were him, I'm not sure I'd take the chance of stepping out of a succession path to a better job really. It'd be a tough sell for us I think.

Southgate only got the job because of what happened to Big Sam, I don’t think England will go down the same route again as if they hire a new manager it will be someone who can win them a tournament rather than a succession manager, if anything it will be a manager in the premier league.

[Diggs246]

why would any of them take this job?

Its euro campaign so qualifying is very doable.
If it was wc campaign you would be right

Apart from o Neill they will all be doubling their salary I guess

If they get us to the euros and as stated its significantly easier . They would have massive exposure going forward

[Jd2793]

Its euro campaign so qualifying is very doable.
If it was wc campaign you would be right

Apart from o Neill they will all be doubling their salary I guess

If they get us to the euros and as stated its significantly easier . They would have massive exposure going forward

Barry is at a top 5 club team and another top national side , no reason to bin those off for ireland
M'ON is still trudging along at stoke.
Carsley as others mentioned has a very talented u21s group with ENG
Rooneys stock has risen massively, everton were keen on him. joining our sinking ship does nothing for his future.

[seanfhear]

Southgate only got the job because of what happened to Big Sam, I don’t think England will go down the same route again as if they hire a new manager it will be someone who can win them a tournament rather than a succession manager, if anything it will be a manager in the premier league.
You’d be better off mentally being a premiership manager / or at the other top leagues around Europe than being the England manager. Is it really that attractive of a job ? Relatively small chance of success and the “ World “ expected of ya ~ ~ Southgate was lucky when he came that things were at such a low ebb the usual English managers pressures were not so bad. I think those pressures are back to where they usually are now.

[Diggs246]

Barry is at a top 5 club team and another top national side , no reason to bin those off for ireland
M'ON is still trudging along at stoke.
Carsley as others mentioned has a very talented u21s group with ENG
Rooneys stock has risen massively, everton were keen on him. joining our sinking ship does nothing for his future.

I'm not being smart but do u have a list? Or a suggestion

Somebody will take it! Maybe someone from left field.

[D24Saint]

Has Chris Hughton completely slipped out of the reckoning ?

[Diggs246]

Has Chris Hughton completely slipped out of the reckoning ?

No he should and will be in the reckoning. He has a technical role for Ghana in the Wc. He is available and while he didn't do well at forest he was superb at Newcastle and Brighton ( got them both into the Premier league)

[seanfhear]

No he should and will be in the reckoning. He has a technical role for Ghana in the Wc. He is available and while he didn't do well at forest he was superb at Newcastle and Brighton ( got them both into the Premier league)
True but really bad at Forest for some reason and when you consider what his replacement has done then ? ?

All the same Chris Hughton has great experience at a very good level.

[pineapple stu]

Southgate only got the job because of what happened to Big Sam, I don’t think England will go down the same route again as if they hire a new manager it will be someone who can win them a tournament rather than a succession manager, if anything it will be a manager in the premier league.
Yeah, that's fair alright. Carsley should be considered for sure, but I just think especially with him being in the 21s role less than a year, it may be the wrong time to go courting him.

The only positive I can see about taking the role is that we don't concede very many (14 in 17 competitive games under Kenny) and if you could somehow find a way to score goals at the other end, we could become half-decent and you could make a bit of a name for yourself there.

[Trequartista20]

I don't know how realistic this is, but someone like Liam Manning would be my preferred option; an up-and-coming progressive coach who deals with the media side of things well. Carsley and Steven Reid are well worth considering too.

Jim Goodwyn should be in the conversation, but he's only recently taken over at Aberdeen.

I expect Stephen Bradley will be in the frame as well as Damien Duff.

[CSAD]

Yeah, that's fair alright. Carsley should be considered for sure, but I just think especially with him being in the 21s role less than a year, it may be the wrong time to go courting him.

The only positive I can see about taking the role is that we don't concede very many (14 in 17 competitive games under Kenny) and if you could somehow find a way to score goals at the other end, we could become half-decent and you could make a bit of a name for yourself there.

True but either way coaching a senior international team is still better experience than an u21 role regardless of how good that role is.

And that point is true and there is good young players coming through so if you were an incoming manager there is atleast something to build on, which lets say wasn’t the case in 2018 when O’Neill was sacked.

I still don’t want to give up on Kenny but the last week has been very worrying and for me the Scotland game is make or break for him!

[Jd2793]

im a bit confused, why are young club managers leaving jobs to come to us? liam manning is in high demand in England, what in gods name is he joining this sinking ship for? our next manager will be someone who is older+out of the club game with a few years.

[pineapple stu]

I still don’t want to give up on Kenny but the last week has been very worrying and for me the Scotland game is make or break for him!
Well I think he's definitely there for the next two games anyway. A turnaround in those and all this could be forgotten, like the 3-0 in Azerbaijan made us forget the home draw against them only a few weeks earlier.

But while I know where you're coming from in terms of him trying to bring through changes that we need brought through, another two games of literally the same problems as the previous Nations League campaign makes it hard to make a case for keeping him for the Euro qualifying.

Are we in any danger of dropping to fourth seeds for the Euros btw?

[Eirambler]

I think if we end up as the worst group B team out of the four Nations League B groups we would be fourth seeds. Seemed impossible when we drew Armenia but not so much now.

[CSAD]

Well I think he's definitely there for the next two games anyway. A turnaround in those and all this could be forgotten, like the 3-0 in Azerbaijan made us forget the home draw against them only a few weeks earlier.

But while I know where you're coming from in terms of him trying to bring through changes that we need brought through, another two games of literally the same problems as the previous Nations League campaign makes it hard to make a case for keeping him for the Euro qualifying.

Are we in any danger of dropping to fourth seeds for the Euros btw?

I agree with that, if we beat Scotland and atleast give it a go versus Ukraine away and it will at least give Kenny some breathing space.

And yes that is correct, and not just the previous campaign but even the previous games, the last two games were carbon copies of each other in terms of management, if we make the same mistakes in the following 2 games and we lose he’ll struggle to stay on.

I think based on how the seeding went for the last Euros we only need to avoid being the worst team in NL B to stay in pot 3. Essential just finish above Armenia and we should be good for pot 3.

[paul_oshea]

Well I think he's definitely there for the next two games anyway. A turnaround in those and all this could be forgotten, like the 3-0 in Azerbaijan made us forget the home draw against them only a few weeks earlier.

But while I know where you're coming from in terms of him trying to bring through changes that we need brought through, another two games of literally the same problems as the previous Nations League campaign makes it hard to make a case for keeping him for the Euro qualifying.

Are we in any danger of dropping to fourth seeds for the Euros btw?

You've hit on something there for me , will it really turn things around? There's a pattern here that we are out of the reckoning as soon as we start in acompetition. That is not a good trait, it's no good having victories and moral victories when the competitive side is over in groups and nothing to play for. I am very worried that he won't be able to fix that for the Euros campaign.

Regardless of what happens saturday or next week we are in a very worrying situation with a manger who has repeated his failings time and again and shown no inkling that he's aware of this nevermind how to overcome them

[Eirambler]

A week really is a long time in football. Last Friday in his press conference Kenny must have felt he was in a strong position, as he was happily hitting out at people who hard dared to criticise his winless first Nations League campaign (because a worldwide pandemic that affected everyone somehow apparently meant results and performances then didn't count).

We're just six days on and it looks to be all but over for him.

[NeverFeltBetter]

We also need to be wary of the goalposts getting moved for Kenny. I'm seeing this sentiment that if he gets four points from the next two games he'll be fine, but that would be four from 12 if it even happened. At what point before 2200 last night was that outcome deemed acceptable? If they lose to Scotland will it then be a win needed in Poland? If they draw that game will it be called an improvement?

[Stuttgart88]

We can't score even when the goalposts are in their normal position.

[backstothewall]

After two and half years, and 25 games, in charge, Kenny really should not be "experimenting". He should know his players, their strengths and weaknesses, and how to get the best out of them.
At the very least he should have a plan for attempting a comeback that's better than "push Shane Duffy up front"

I completely, fundamentally disagree with this. Experimentation should never end. Just because you know your players doesn't mean that there isn't someone new coming through who can offer something different. One new player becoming available can open up new ways of playing for the entire team.

At this stage Kenny should know his best 11, which i don't believe he does, but he should also be using games like last night to try different approaches etc. Because he doesn't know what his best team is guys get caps just so he can get another look at them. A case in point was last night when a Alan Browne, a midfielder, got a cap coming on as a right wing back.

Festy Ebosele should have been given his debut when Christie came off, but instead we had another look at a round peg being hammered into a square hole.

[Olé Olé]

I couldn't believe Browne coming on right wing back. I thought Hendrick looked off it. He looked like he was missing trusted outlets and players he could click with - like he does Doherty. I thought Browne was on for Hendrick. Browne looked lost right wing back.

I don't get the introduction of Cj Hamilton when chasing a goal. Didn't Parrott pull one out of the fire recently for Kenny? Hamilton didn't do terrible and created a chance but that confused me.

Starting Stevens again also confused me. McClean has been a trusted lieutenant. He should have started. Stevens was dreadful against Armenia. Really bad. He was as bad last night.

So many strange decisions that concern me. Even though I have backed Kenny so far.

Obafemi has to start on Saturday, by the way.

[Diggs246]

T

but they're not strange decisions, they're poor decisions.

[pineapple stu]

I couldn't believe Browne coming on right wing back.
It felt a bit like the changes in the Denmark playoff game (Hoolahan and McGeady on, but at the complete cost of shape)

Maybe I'm reading too much into it because the Kenny tenure has been tending towards that level of chaos anyway, but that's the comparison that came to mind when the sub was made.

[passinginterest]

On the Browne switch, while it was a surprise, he has played there and had some success at club level. See here for an example shortly after the Slovakia playoff game; https://www.balls.ie/football/alan-browne-preston-masterclass-452033 and here https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/55944387, seems he played there quiet a bit under Alex Neil.

[Diggs246]

RE Ofafemi yes start the man, but he needs a 10 to play him in behind No?

maybe Parrott?

[Trequartista20]

We also need to be wary of the goalposts getting moved for Kenny. I'm seeing this sentiment that if he gets four points from the next two games he'll be fine, but that would be four from 12 if it even happened. At what point before 2200 last night was that outcome deemed acceptable? If they lose to Scotland will it then be a win needed in Poland? If they draw that game will it be called an improvement?


Say we fluke a win over a likely understrength Scotland - what does that actually change?

Kenny's been in charge for 26 months and 25 matches: the verdict's in; he's just not up to it. We've all seen more than enough, now, to know that, however decent a bloke he might be, Kenny's just not adequately equipped for this job.

We were desperately poor in Yerevan, turning in a disjointed, tepid, uninspired performance in which it became abundantly clear quite early on that, in terms of both selection and tactics, it wasn't working. And Kenny just didn't react. When the changes did come, we were already a goal down and they proved to be far too late, panicky, ill thought through and, ultimately, ineffectual - the game ending with the unedifying spectacle of a succession of hopeful balls launched into the box in the hopes that maybe centre-forward Duffy could get his head to something.

Incredibly, Kenny saw all this and made only one unenforced change for last night's game, proceeding to make exactly the same mistakes all over again! All of this leading, funnily enough, to exactly the same result.

If you can't even identify the problems, let alone work out a way to fix them, and seem utterly incapable of learning from what seem obvious previous mistakes, well I'm afraid it's time to admit that it's a hopeless cause, draw a line under the whole thing and move in another direction.

[Predator]

We already know now that Duffy went against the game plan meaning it’s time for Kenny to be ruthless...
Point of information. He didn't say Duffy went against the gameplan. What he said was: "Both teams pressed each other high, we were both playing the same system and it was man-to-man really. Shane went long a lot when he seen space and sometimes he got joy from it when Chio [Ogbene] went one-on-on. We're used to building. Matt Doherty at times is like a playmaker for us, taking the ball in a low block and building through the midfield. We just have to show a little bit more composure in our build and build better than we did at times. But I can't fault the players, they left everything out there."

[Predator]

I think Kenny can reasonably complain that the referee was a bit soft on Ukraine, but he won't say/hasn't said it. They got away with disrupting our game a lot and should have had more than one yellow card really. It allowed them to keep growing into the game as time went on in the second half, controlling the momentum and frustrating our lads. That said, he appeared to be a bit too slow to change the approach/personnel during the game. We had lots of chances, but a lot of poor decision-making in the final third. I think he is under pressure, but a result and positive display against Scotland will change the tone again.

[TrapAPony]

I think he is under pressure, but a result and positive display against Scotland will change the tone again.

A draw against Scotland is only papering over the obvious cracks. The reality is that Kenny has achieved absolutely nothing in his time as Irish manager and it is beyond obvious that he not up to it. We are in freefall under him. Then again what did the FAI expect? Hire a manager that was clearly never up to it and these are the end results. The sooner he gets booted out the better.

[Olé Olé]

On the Browne switch, while it was a surprise, he has played there and had some success at club level. See here for an example shortly after the Slovakia playoff game; https://www.balls.ie/football/alan-browne-preston-masterclass-452033 and here https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/55944387, seems he played there quiet a bit under Alex Neil.

Fair enough. It is easy for me to criticize after the fact. But we needed pace on that right hand side. Which is probably why we brought on Hamilton there...

[pineapple stu]

Hamilton did ok I thought, though I was surprised to see a debutant come on when we were chasing the game (and possibly Kenny's job). Nothing spectacular, but he did at least beat his man on one occasion with a nice shimmy, which is more than we'd managed most of the evening.

[passinginterest]

We're like a rugby team at the moment, I think that's what it's reminding me of anyway. It's all lateral or straight balls and it's too easy to defend against. It's like a rugby team just going through the hands, losing 15 yards and then kicking it up the line. Without a line break there's no way to make ground and disrupt the defence. There's a few ways to do that on the football pitch, either quick diagonal balls between or over the lines, or to beat a man one on one. We don't do either one nearly enough. It's where Doherty is badly missed because he can carry the ball from deep, through the lines and he can beat a man further forward. Only Knight really offered anything like that in terms of taking on his man, and that was mainly early on. I though O'Shea looked a bit better on the ball than Egan when he came in and he showed some willingness to carry the ball into the space in front of him, Collins tried it a few times too but I think that's the kind of break we need more of. Neither Cullen nor Hendrick really carried the ball forward, Hendrick does have a nice slide rule pass that can get between the lines sometimes, but it gets cut out a lot, especially as he tires and as much as I like Cullen, he rarely carries the ball forward. It's too easy to defend when it's just lateral, lateral, up the line, recycle, lateral, lateral, up the line, recycle. It's a shame McGrath got no game time at Wigan and Ronan got injured, because at least they offer that bit more ambition and creativity with the ball.

[Stuttgart88]

Yep, the "gain line" in rugby is a good analogy. We don't have a player who can consistently improve our pitch position.

In footy you can either pass your way through opponents' lines or carry the ball through. Doc is good at the latter. McGeady in Lille is a great example of carrying it through the middle. O'Dowda was able to do it from time to time.

[SkStu]

We're like a rugby team at the moment, I think that's what it's reminding me of anyway. It's all lateral or straight balls and it's too easy to defend against. It's like a rugby team just going through the hands, losing 15 yards and then kicking it up the line. Without a line break there's no way to make ground and disrupt the defence. There's a few ways to do that on the football pitch, either quick diagonal balls between or over the lines, or to beat a man one on one. We don't do either one nearly enough. It's where Doherty is badly missed because he can carry the ball from deep, through the lines and he can beat a man further forward. Only Knight really offered anything like that in terms of taking on his man, and that was mainly early on. I though O'Shea looked a bit better on the ball than Egan when he came in and he showed some willingness to carry the ball into the space in front of him, Collins tried it a few times too but I think that's the kind of break we need more of. Neither Cullen nor Hendrick really carried the ball forward, Hendrick does have a nice slide rule pass that can get between the lines sometimes, but it gets cut out a lot, especially as he tires and as much as I like Cullen, he rarely carries the ball forward. It's too easy to defend when it's just lateral, lateral, up the line, recycle, lateral, lateral, up the line, recycle. It's a shame McGrath got no game time at Wigan and Ronan got injured, because at least they offer that bit more ambition and creativity with the ball.

We play like Bohs have played for the last 18 months. Recycle backwards and across, slow the game down, play well sometimes but ultimately ineffective and don't win.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Yep, the "gain line" in rugby is a good analogy. We don't have a player who can consistently improve our pitch position.



I thought Knight did a bit of that last night, but just about every time he didn't have a good option to keep the play moving forward.

[Trequartista20]

I felt sorry for Knight yesterday, he didn't seem to have a defined role. He has terrific energy and enthusiasm, but it felt like he was trying to do too much. There was an air of desperation in the way we played and Knight's involvement seemed to sum the whole thing up.

[paul_oshea]

We're like a rugby team at the moment, I think that's what it's reminding me of anyway. It's all lateral or straight balls and it's too easy to defend against. It's like a rugby team just going through the hands, losing 15 yards and then kicking it up the line. Without a line break there's no way to make ground and disrupt the defence. There's a few ways to do that on the football pitch, either quick diagonal balls between or over the lines, or to beat a man one on one. We don't do either one nearly enough. It's where Doherty is badly missed because he can carry the ball from deep, through the lines and he can beat a man further forward. Only Knight really offered anything like that in terms of taking on his man, and that was mainly early on. I though O'Shea looked a bit better on the ball than Egan when he came in and he showed some willingness to carry the ball into the space in front of him, Collins tried it a few times too but I think that's the kind of break we need more of. Neither Cullen nor Hendrick really carried the ball forward, Hendrick does have a nice slide rule pass that can get between the lines sometimes, but it gets cut out a lot, especially as he tires and as much as I like Cullen, he rarely carries the ball forward. It's too easy to defend when it's just lateral, lateral, up the line, recycle, lateral, lateral, up the line, recycle. It's a shame McGrath got no game time at Wigan and Ronan got injured, because at least they offer that bit more ambition and creativity with the ball.

I would say its more Gaelic Football. Its brutal boring and slows the game right down, except in Gaelic football you are now forced into it because you get 15 men running back behind the ball before you get a chance to counter, whereas in Irelands case we turn, wait and hold up the ball till someone else comes running up and then the opposition get to regroup and reshape. Its definitely more gaa than rugby but without the option of a long range shot over the bar :)

[geysir]

Kenny hasn't made the best out of the squad but it's undoubtedly the poorest midfield we've ever had and we have had some. I said it from the beginning that we didn't have the quality at centre midfield to play Kenny's game with 3 central defenders and 2 wing backs. I see there's a team selected for the next game with McClean starting, there is no manager in the world who can transform McClean into an intl standard player at this stage of his career.

I have mixed feeling about Kenny, because apart from the back 5 + goalie we have a certified mixture of past its, not good enoughs or still learning the trade, though I appreciate what Kenny tried to do with this team. When Trap started out he ditched any notions of playing it through midfield, he claimed we were not good enough, however he had a good spine to begin with (Duff, Keane, Dunne, O'Shea, Given) and added on players with the ability to do what he wanted them to do.
Kenny hasn't managed that feat to build such a team in his image, I doubt anyone could. NI had Steven Davis, singularly the most important player for them for 15 years and now that he's edging towards 40, NI are on the slide.

[Razors left peg]

Im absolutely fed up today. I'll speak for myself but I think a lot on here will agree with me, the reason we wanted Kenny to work was because of how he spoke about us being able to get on the ball and play football while being competitive. We've had years and years of managers showing up for a paycheck while telling us that our players werent good enough. You could see that this was seeping into even the match going crowd as the attendances were way down until Kenny took over. Suddenly there seemed like the was new life in Lansdowne and it really felt like the dawn of a brave new era. There has been a bull$hit narrative spun in places that the reason we were all backing Kenny is because of the LOI angle. It has nothing to do with that in most cases, for me it was down to comments like "if a player is good enough they will be fast tracked into team ahead of more experienced players".

If Mick McCarthy was still in charge Darren Randolph would still be our goal keeper. Kenny has made good decisions in players that he has moved out and new ones brought in. We have gone from having games where we only had about 25% possession to 60%. The problem is that we break down in final 3rd not knowing what to do with that possession, but even with that I kept telling myself that will come good because we have exciting young players on the verge up front. I still believe that, I think that out of Idah, Parrott, Obafemi, Ferguson, Mipo and even Aaron Connolly we have players that will transform us in the final 3rd of the pitch. Yesterday we basically had 2 wingers playing up front and you could see they are not natural strikers, it was so frustrating to see poor decisions over and over causing good build up play by the likes of Knight breaking down. Annoyingly he didnt make changes until far too late and that is why Im questioning him now. His subs have been poor in a lot of games but I was losing my mind yesterday watching the 2nd half with nothing being done.

When he brought on Alan Browne on the right, that was when I wondered if the brave talk of bring on a good young player was being eroded in his head by the pressure of the job. It was the conservative, safe option that the like of Trap or O'Neill would have done instead of using the opportunity to have a look at Ebosele.

All that being said, we are only 2 games removed from being delighted with how things were going. We were on 8 game unbeaten streak while having some very good performances. This time of year is when we used to have a US tour with half the squad missing and the likes of Joe Lapria getting a game. Maybe some of the players have their head on the beach. I think Saturday we should go balls to the wall with every younger player possible. Lets see what Obafemi and Parrott as a partnership up front can do. A midfield of Knight, Cullen and Molumby would have energy. We need to try get a spark from somewhere.

I thought for the 1st time yesterday that Kenny is not the man for the job, but the alternatives of Houghton, Allardyce, Roy, Mick, Lennon etc would make me wanna vomit. If Kenny can learn from his mistakes he can still redeem this, I have my doubts now but I dont want to have a summer of us looking for new manager either.