Stephen Kenny

[Jd2793]

To try to make your point, you've had to completely ignore McCarthy's reign directly before Kenny and the involvement of coaches such as Anthony Barry. It shows how weak your argument is when you're forced to do that. Switzerland got to the Euro quarter finals, Denmark got to the Euro semi finals. That's Kenny's starting point, those were the teams we were competing with. Now we're competing with Bulgaria, Luxembourg, Azerbaijan and Armenia. With nearly qualifying for the Euros, there was no talk of a rebuild. And Kenny's team selections reflected that there was no rebuild.

Here are Kenny's first 10 team selections:

v Bulgaria:
Darren Randolph Enda Stevens Shane Duffy John Egan Matt Doherty James McCarthy Adam Idah Jeff Hendrick Conor Hourihane Callum O'Dowda Aaron Connolly
v Finland
Darren Randolph; Enda Stevens, Shane Duffy John Egan, Matt Doherty; Robbie Brady, Harry Arter, Jayson Molumby; Callum O'Dowda Aaron Connolly Adam Idah
v Slovakia
Darren Randolph; Matt Doherty, Shane Duffy, John Egan, Enda Stevens; Jeff Hendrick, James McCarthy, Conor Hourihane; Callum Robinson, David McGoldrick, James McClean.
v Wales
Darren Randolph; Matt Doherty, Kevin Long Shane Duffy Enda Stevens; Conor Hourihane, Jeff Hendrick, Jayson Molumby Shane Long Robbie Brady James McClean
v Finland
Randolph; Doherty, Duffy (c), O'Shea, Stevens; Molumby, Hourihane, Horgan, Hendrick, Connolly; Maguire.
v England
Darren Randolph; Cyrus Christie, Matt Doherty, Shane Duffy, John Egan; Conor Hourihane, Jeff Hendrick, Alan Browne; Daryl Horgan, Callum O'Dowda, Adam Idah
v Wales
Randolph, Doherty, Duffy, O'Shea, Molumby, Hendrick, Horgan, Brady, McClean, Long, Idah
v Bulgaria
Darren Randolph; Ryan Manning, Kevin Long, Shane Duffy (capt), Dara O'Shea; Conor Hourihane, Jason Knight, Robbie Brady; Ronan Curtis, Daryl Horgan, James Collins.
v Serbia
Mark Travers; Seamus Coleman, Matt Doherty, Enda Stevens, Ciaran Clark, Dara O'Shea; Alan Browne, Jayson Molumby, Josh Cullen; Callum Robinson, Aaron Connolly.
v Luxembourg
Gavin Bazunu; Seamus Coleman, Dara O'Shea, Ciaran Clark; Matt Doherty, Enda Stevens, Josh Cullen, Jason Knight, Alan Browne; Callum Robinson, James Collins.

Pretty obvious that he wasn't planning for 2024 with those selections. That talk came after the Luxembourg defeat.

McCarthy's term ending early was celebrated, Kenny was coming in to transform our fortunes according to many. They look very foolish now. He had a competitive squad and a whole host of youngsters coming through to add to it, some you've listed. He has failed miserably with the hand he was dealt. There's no way around that fact. I think it's right to play a more progressive game on the pitch but Kenny is 100% not the man to implement it. He's proven that now. We stick with him in charge and the chances are that we'll end up with a long ball manager next. Like I said, he's doing serious damage to our progression.

no matter how many love letters you write to mick, his time was up and his day in football is long gone. kenny aint the answer but mick certainly wasnt either.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

no matter how many love letters you write to mick, his time was up and his day in football is long gone. kenny aint the answer but mick certainly wasnt either.

That wasn't a love letter to McCarthy, it was just a good old fashioned filleting of the defense of Kenny. My last few sentences in the post you quoted show that I don't think McCarthy should have been kept on either but he was replaced by a manager worse than Stan. Probably our worst ever manager.

[mypost]

To try to make your point, you've had to completely ignore McCarthy's reign directly before Kenny and the involvement of coaches such as Anthony Barry. It shows how weak your argument is when you're forced to do that. Switzerland got to the Euro quarter finals, Denmark got to the Euro semi finals. That's Kenny's starting point, those were the teams we were competing with. Now we're competing with Bulgaria, Luxembourg, Azerbaijan and Armenia. With nearly qualifying for the Euros, there was no talk of a rebuild. And Kenny's team selections reflected that there was no rebuild.

Pretty obvious that he wasn't planning for 2024 with those selections. That talk came after the Luxembourg defeat.

McCarthy's term ending early was celebrated, Kenny was coming in to transform our fortunes according to many. They look very foolish now. He had a competitive squad and a whole host of youngsters coming through to add to it, some you've listed. He has failed miserably with the hand he was dealt. There's no way around that fact. I think it's right to play a more progressive game on the pitch but Kenny is 100% not the man to implement it. He's proven that now. We stick with him in charge and the chances are that we'll end up with a long ball manager next. Like I said, he's doing serious damage to our progression.

We just got 7 points out of the NL group. How did England get on? Wales? France, the defending champions? We've won 2 of our last 3 games, won 3 home games this year. We recently went 3 years without a home win at all.

We're not preparing for 2024, we're a transition team bringing through new players playing a totally different kind of football to anything we've seen in the past 20-30 years, where after every failed campaign (and there were many) there would be a massive inquiry into why we didn't qualify and what we need to change. The change is currently happening, and people like you can't accept it because results are going to be affected, and have been.

Every team goes through transition. Some of them have the luxury of having enough resources to do so without suffering on the pitch. But we don't have those resources, so we have to find them and develop them, and it takes time when everyone wants results yesterday.

We've qualified for 2 tournaments in 20 years. So we've got to accept where we stand and drop the demands that we either qualify or sack the manager. Otherwise no manager will want to do the job.

[osarusan]

I think it's a while since we punched above our weight. But yes, it's clear we're not doing it now and it doesn't look like we will for some time either


Punching above our weight is a bonus. Punching at our weight is where the benchmark should be. Too often, Kenny has had us punching below our weight.

There's no doubt that we have a dearth of players compared to some past squads. There's also no doubt that we've gone backwards by standing still as so many other countries get their act together in terms of facilities and footballing infrastructure.

But all that said, some of the results under Kenny have been inexcusable. We are losing to teams, and failing to beat teams, that we should be dismissing with ease, despite our weaknesses.

Now, if those preformances and results were mere blips on the road in a journey that was obviously showing great promise otherwise, they might be tolerable. But, in my case at least, I'm not convinced that any great improvement is being made at all, or any great transition is taking place at all.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

We just got 7 points out of the NL group. How did England get on? Wales? France, the defending champions? We've won 2 of our last 3 games, won 3 home games this year. We recently went 3 years without a home win at all.

We're not preparing for 2024, we're a transition team bringing through new players playing a totally different kind of football to anything we've seen in the past 20-30 years, where after every failed campaign (and there were many) there would be a massive inquiry into why we didn't qualify and what we need to change. The change is currently happening, and people like you can't accept it because results are going to be affected, and have been.

Every team goes through transition. Some of them have the luxury of having enough resources to do so without suffering on the pitch. But we don't have those resources, so we have to find them and develop them, and it takes time when everyone wants results yesterday.

We've qualified for 2 tournaments in 20 years. So we've got to accept where we stand and drop the demands that we either qualify or sack the manager. Otherwise no manager will want to do the job.

That's some amount of spin and bluster, typical of Kenny's reign. We got 7 points battling it out with Armenia at the bottom of our group, way off the top. What other countries did is irrelevant. Kenny's only wins have been against Scotland, Luxembourg, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Lithuania, Malta, Qatar and Andorra. Played 30, won 8, drawn 11, lost 11. You'd actually think he was doing a decent job looking at your post but the facts prove otherwise.

Not preparing for 2024? Is it 2026 now? 2028? Soon Kenny will have everything in place to give the World Cup 2038 a good go. Kenny has us playing some of the worst stuff we've seen in longer than the past 20-30 years. He's just not capable at this level or anywhere near it. He has had to get coaches on board to show him some basic tactics, formations etc. Why not just hire those coaches? Why waste any more time on this clown? The players are laughing at him in the dressing room.

We don't have those resources yet we should have qualified for the Euros with the same squad Kenny had just 2 years ago? It's not his failure to qualify that's the issue, it's that he hasn't even come close to qualification. Lost to Slovakia, came near the bottom of his first Nations League, came near the bottom of World Cup qualification, came near the bottom of his second Nations League. Repeated failure with no sign of things improving. That's why he has to be sacked. No amount of spin can counteract that.

[Stuttgart88]

Where did I completely ignore McCarthy’s tenure just before Kenny? The one where we were rubbish twice against Gibraltar, took one point from Switzerland. Two decent points against Denmark though. I don’t think it’s relevant to my point.

[mypost]

That's some amount of spin and bluster, typical of Kenny's reign. We got 7 points battling it out with Armenia at the bottom of our group, way off the top. What other countries did is irrelevant. Kenny's only wins have been against Scotland, Luxembourg, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Lithuania, Malta, Qatar and Andorra. Played 30, won 8, drawn 11, lost 11. You'd actually think he was doing a decent job looking at your post but the facts prove otherwise.

Not preparing for 2024? Is it 2026 now? 2028? Soon Kenny will have everything in place to give the World Cup 2038 a good go. Kenny has us playing some of the worst stuff we've seen in longer than the past 20-30 years. He's just not capable at this level or anywhere near it. He has had to get coaches on board to show him some basic tactics, formations etc. Why not just hire those coaches? Why waste any more time on this clown? The players are laughing at him in the dressing room.

We don't have those resources yet we should have qualified for the Euros with the same squad Kenny had just 2 years ago? It's not his failure to qualify that's the issue, it's that he hasn't even come close to qualification. Lost to Slovakia, came near the bottom of his first Nations League, came near the bottom of World Cup qualification, came near the bottom of his second Nations League. Repeated failure with no sign of things improving.

We've just had our best ever NL campaign by some margin, and then you tell me we're not making progress. This is what I have to debate with, here and elsewhere.

Our resources have been way behind most countries and dwindling for the past 10-15 years. When those players couldn't be replaced, we played ever more negative football to compensate. Indeed I struggle to recall any game since about 2008, when there wasn't a referendum held on whether he should stay or go after it, win lose or neither. The team was getting booed off after games during campaigns when we qualified, let alone when we didn't. When they failed, we sacked the manager.

Now we are in transition because as a tactic, parking the bus and hoping to nick a goal off Duffy's head from a setpiece had a limited shelf life. We had two chances to get to the last Euros before Kenny arrived and it didn't happen. If you want to get to the tournaments, you have to try and win matches, not simply park the bus and hope to draw your way to tournaments.

I don't know what tournament we're preparing for, I don't think that's the priority right now. The priority should be bringing new players through and developing them to the stage that when we qualify the next time, they're able to cope at the top table of the game. That's what we're trying to do, and we need to let the manager get on with doing it.

[ontheotherhand]

Now we are in transition because as a tactic, parking the bus and hoping to nick a goal off Duffy's head from a setpiece had a limited shelf life.

I do miss the days when our on field tactics were a better metaphor for our off field strategies. At least there was a better synergy between the lack of planning on both fronts.

I admire your continued confidence mypost but I don't think we are really seeing the manager bringing players through or trying models that might get the most out of what we have at this point. For a time maybe but these friendlies were a completely botched opportunity. In the grand scheme of things maybe it's fine, end of season fare and all that but for me that almost makes it worse. Why play players who have checked out and have nothing to prove? Why put Kelleher in for the game he'd face less action in? Why not try him against Norway? If Ferguson has the potential to be the main man why not get him in now and run with it. Why not put Ogbene at wingback? We know what we have with Doherty. It was Malta, why not try Hodge etc? Why not try a different formation or approach? Our third string should be able for Malta. Why not bring in all the fringe players and see who might be worth a place? He's operating in a scenario where he can't actually do the job that's required for fear of losing the job. Very frustrating. Maybe more patience is required but I'm just not seeing the big picture planning anymore. Jeff Hendrick ffs.

Ultimately I still think we are a long way away from competing and our priority, with very limited resources, shouldn't even be the national team if we are serious about competing properly. There's plenty to do in Ireland to develop players who can compete and we have nothing to do it with. Clearing debts and focusing on facilities at home should be the goal for me...or following any sort of model to improve our team. Luxembourg, Iceland etc all had a plan. We just keep hitting and hoping. That said, I wouldn't mind someone else coming in with a fresh slate. The endless referenda and gas lighting from all sides is getting so tiresome.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

Where did I completely ignore McCarthy’s tenure just before Kenny? The one where we were rubbish twice against Gibraltar, took one point from Switzerland. Two decent points against Denmark though. I don’t think it’s relevant to my point.

You were saying we're a tier 3 nation, not having the players anymore but conveniently forgot to mention that directly prior to Kenny taking over, we should have qualified ahead of Denmark. That's the problem with trying to defend Kenny, you have to ignore so much evidence and still the argument is **** poor. You yet again had to ignore the rest of my points which destroyed your argument.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

We've just had our best ever NL campaign by some margin, and then you tell me we're not making progress. This is what I have to debate with, here and elsewhere.

Our resources have been way behind most countries and dwindling for the past 10-15 years. When those players couldn't be replaced, we played ever more negative football to compensate. Indeed I struggle to recall any game since about 2008, when there wasn't a referendum held on whether he should stay or go after it, win lose or neither. The team was getting booed off after games during campaigns when we qualified, let alone when we didn't. When they failed, we sacked the manager.

Now we are in transition because as a tactic, parking the bus and hoping to nick a goal off Duffy's head from a setpiece had a limited shelf life. We had two chances to get to the last Euros before Kenny arrived and it didn't happen. If you want to get to the tournaments, you have to try and win matches, not simply park the bus and hope to draw your way to tournaments.

I don't know what tournament we're preparing for, I don't think that's the priority right now. The priority should be bringing new players through and developing them to the stage that when we qualify the next time, they're able to cope at the top table of the game. That's what we're trying to do, and we need to let the manager get on with doing it.

More spin and wishy washy nonsense. Our aim now is not to qualify for tournaments but to start winning the possession stats against our opposition. :D Like the other poster, you have to ignore the campaign directly before Kenny. Somehow with worse resources, our previous manager managed to make us competitive with teams who went far in the last Euros. Now we're competing with Azerbaijan and Armenia. And swinging the ball into Duffy has saved Kenny from an even more embarrassing record, he's scored 4 times under Kenny. You couldn't make it up!

[mypost]

I admire your continued confidence mypost but I don't think we are really seeing the manager bringing players through or trying models that might get the most out of what we have at this point. For a time maybe but these friendlies were a completely botched opportunity. In the grand scheme of things maybe it's fine, end of season fare and all that but for me that almost makes it worse. Why play players who have checked out and have nothing to prove? Why put Kelleher in for the game he'd face less action in? Why not try him against Norway? If Ferguson has the potential to be the main man why not get him in now and run with it. Why not put Ogbene at wingback? We know what we have with Doherty. It was Malta, why not try Hodge etc? Why not try a different formation or approach? Our third string should be able for Malta. Why not bring in all the fringe players and see who might be worth a place? He's operating in a scenario where he can't actually do the job that's required for fear of losing the job. Very frustrating. Maybe more patience is required but I'm just not seeing the big picture planning anymore. Jeff Hendrick ffs.

Ultimately I still think we are a long way away from competing and our priority, with very limited resources, shouldn't even be the national team if we are serious about competing properly. There's plenty to do in Ireland to develop players who can compete and we have nothing to do it with. Clearing debts and focusing on facilities at home should be the goal for me...or following any sort of model to improve our team. Luxembourg, Iceland etc all had a plan. We just keep hitting and hoping. That said, I wouldn't mind someone else coming in with a fresh slate. The endless referenda and gas lighting from all sides is getting so tiresome.

It is tiresome, but we're not going to change manager after winning a game. We continue on the project that we're on, whether we win or not, without demanding that we either qualify or sack the manager.

It's going to be impossible for a new man to come in with a clean slate. He's going to have the likes of me on his back from Day 1, hounding him for parking the bus and not winning games, and eventually everyone else will see through him. Then he gets sacked, the next man is appointed and the cycle repeats itself. It's a toxic environment for any manager to work in, and doesn't allow him any leeway to see what works and what doesn't, or any long term plan. The demand is either win or find someone else who will try to get Championship level squads that we have, to tournaments against the superstars of the sport.

[SkStu]

I admire your continued confidence mypost but I don't think we are really seeing the manager bringing players through or trying models that might get the most out of what we have at this point. For a time maybe but these friendlies were a completely botched opportunity. In the grand scheme of things maybe it's fine, end of season fare and all that but for me that almost makes it worse. Why play players who have checked out and have nothing to prove? Why put Kelleher in for the game he'd face less action in? Why not try him against Norway? If Ferguson has the potential to be the main man why not get him in now and run with it. Why not put Ogbene at wingback? We know what we have with Doherty. It was Malta, why not try Hodge etc? Why not try a different formation or approach? Our third string should be able for Malta. Why not bring in all the fringe players and see who might be worth a place? He's operating in a scenario where he can't actually do the job that's required for fear of losing the job. Very frustrating. Maybe more patience is required but I'm just not seeing the big picture planning anymore. Jeff Hendrick ffs.

My gut - and my heart - continue to lean more towards the mypost school of thought in that the transition and journey we are on, and the personnel, remain right and it is just taking longer than i had thought it should. My head, though, just cant get past this last window and the entire paragraph set out by OTOH above. It was, in my opinion, his biggest failure to date for all the reasons in the bit i quoted. It was a disaster. It was cowardly and weak. I expected way more in terms of how he would use the squad.

With that coming quickly after a generally disappointing NL campaign (it was an unstable rollercoaster ride v. a continued, modest upward trajectory), he has kind of lost my faith and I do think another manager could come in and probably do a better overall job with this group of players - but it wont be significantly better. No matter your thoughts on Kenny, lets not kid ourselves. If you disagree with that, you are in for some serious disappointment. Some of our players appear to have potential or a high ceiling but they are still relatively young, they havent come close to that ceiling and, in most cases, they are realistically still trying to prove themselves at club level - a level that generally continues on a downward trajectory. The Irish football system continues to operate without a cohesive vision or plan on how to maximize our potential using all options - domestic and oversees - as a nation our decline, i think, will continue no matter who the manager is - we continue to slide further towards big trouble and it started 30 years ago, not upon the appointment of SK.

Should he go? Yes.
Will things get better? Maybe but not much (even without the prospect of facing France and the Netherlands).
Is BS' perspective reasonable or accurate? No, its BS.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

My gut - and my heart - continue to lean more towards the mypost school of thought in that the transition and journey we are on, and the personnel, remain right and it is just taking longer than i had thought it should. My head, though, just cant get past this last window and the entire paragraph set out by OTOH above. It was, in my opinion, his biggest failure to date for all the reasons in the bit i quoted. It was a disaster. It was cowardly and weak. I expected way more in terms of how he would use the squad.

With that coming quickly after a generally disappointing NL campaign (it was an unstable rollercoaster ride v. a continued, modest upward trajectory), he has kind of lost my faith and I do think another manager could come in and probably do a better overall job with this group of players - but it wont be significantly better. No matter your thoughts on Kenny, lets not kid ourselves. If you disagree with that, you are in for some serious disappointment. Some of our players appear to have potential or a high ceiling but they are still relatively young, they havent come close to that ceiling and, in most cases, they are realistically still trying to prove themselves at club level - a level that generally continues on a downward trajectory. The Irish football system continues to operate without a cohesive vision or plan on how to maximize our potential using all options - domestic and oversees - as a nation our decline, i think, will continue no matter who the manager is - we continue to slide further towards big trouble and it started 30 years ago, not upon the appointment of SK.

Should he go? Yes.
Will things get better? Maybe but not much (even without the prospect of facing France and the Netherlands).
Is BS' perspective reasonable or accurate? No, its BS.

No one is expecting us to win the Euros! And qualifying will be difficult. It's not too much to ask that we are competitive though. It's crazy that some people are saying that what has been offered in the past 2 years has shown any sign of progress. We've clearly gone backwards. And by a long way. The only BS is the defense of Kenny, this page alone would give you clear evidence of this. As an example, a defender of Kenny was trying to claim that Kenny has moved us on from the dinosaur tactics of lofting it into the big man and hoping for the best. Duffy being the big man in this case. The only problem is that Duffy is one of the highest goal scorers under Kenny, scoring 4 goals and has been thrown up front late in games on numerous occasions. It's laughable, almost as bad as a Kenny interview!

[mypost]

No one is expecting us to win the Euros! And qualifying will be difficult. It's not too much to ask that we are competitive though. It's crazy that some people are saying that what has been offered in the past 2 years has shown any sign of progress. We've clearly gone backwards. And by a long way.

You want him to have us be competitive, yet you were probably one of those lashing into him for saying our ambition was to top the NL group. When did we last top a group? 1987. And that was only because of someone else.

Duffy has scored a few goals in the last 2 years, but other players have as well. We scored 8 goals in our last 4 NL games, more goals than was scored in Mick's last campaign. We took 7 points from our last 4 games. We even won a home game 3-0, at a canter, the easy way. The response to all that improvement was, sack the manager. Name me one manager, Irish or otherwise that wants to do this job in that kind of environment.

I don't expect us to qualify for the Euros, not even before the draw was made. And it's not the end of the world if we can't beat Holland and France. They're a considerable step up in quality from having to beat Denmark and Switzerland, and we weren't good enough to beat them either. But the answer is for us to find better players who are capable of passing a football around a pitch, not change the manager every time.

[Stuttgart88]

You were saying we're a tier 3 nation, not having the players anymore but conveniently forgot to mention that directly prior to Kenny taking over, we should have qualified ahead of Denmark. That's the problem with trying to defend Kenny, you have to ignore so much evidence and still the argument is **** poor. You yet again had to ignore the rest of my points which destroyed your argument.
Oh get over yourself will you. I’ve better things to do with my life than address every sentence you write. I didn’t ignore Mick’s tenure for any tactical purpose, it was because it wasn't relevant. And I forgot we were utter drivel twice against Georgia.

"Should" we have qualified ahead of Denmark? Really?

In general there’s of course a degree of truth in what you’re saying. Everyone sees the flaws in Kenny and the general direction but you don’t help yourself with the sheer hysterical degree to which you’re making these points and the disingenuousness with which you engage.

Fwiw (using a mobile in a cafe so not easy to navigate) I’m around the same as SkStu and - I think - Osarusan (if I understood his point above right).I think the steps forward were encouraging (Scotland, Ukraine away, Portugal away, two away wins with some really good goals, in Luxembourg in particular) but the steps back have been too frequent and too large to have any confidence. We’ve wasted some good opportunities to go the full hog and do a real root and branch rebuild. The last window made O'Neill look experimental. He should have used Ebosele last year imho.

But there were mitigants at times to the first third of his tenure: Covid, empty stadia, Hourihane’s miss (Jesus Christ…how? And subsequently his gift of a goal to Armenia), Randolph’s inexplicable mistake in Helsinki when we were doing just fine. The U21s were doing well so it was arguably right to leave them be. And subsequently Idah’s injury, Connolly’s everything…

I think we’re behind where we should be after 3 years but I maintain that what Kenny started/tried to start should be finished. I don’t care by whom.

[osarusan]

I’m around the same as SkStu and - I think - Osarusan (if I understood his point above right).I think the steps forward were encouraging (Scotland, Ukraine away, Portugal away, two away wins with some really good goals, in Luxembourg in particular) but the steps back have been too frequent and too large to have any confidence.

More or less the same. Yes, good performances which allow you to wonder if we've finally turned a corner are followed by performances which show we haven't.

Is the ratio of punch to/above our weight performances : punch below our weight performances any better now than it was a couple of years ago? I don't really think so.

I think the problem for Kenny now is he feels he's close to the sack, so he probably has to resort to the old guard (Hendrick, for example) more than he'd like, to avoid a defeat which might be the last straw, and having to do this will slow down whatever transformative process he is trying to implement even more.

And while Kenny does deserve credit for bringing through a bunch of players, as you listed earlier, there is still a good/better/best way to do that, and Kenny has brought them into a team that is playing in fits and starts, and malfunctioning at times.

And in response to your very last line, you should care by whom. Now, I'm being a little glib there, as I know you care as deeply as anybody else on this forum, if not more than most. But we should care, because it's a process that can be completed on a scale ranging from brilliantly to disasterously, and for me, Kenny is, unfortunately, at the lower end of that scale. We can, and should, get somebody who is more capable and will do a better job of it.

[Stuttgart88]

Like the other poster, you have to ignore the campaign directly before Kenny.
I didn't. We were shyte against Gibraltar and Georgia twice. Brushed aside by Switzerland away. A good point in Denmark, all down to - yes - a late Duffy goal. If a Duffy goal is good enough for Mick then it should be good enough for Kenny.


with worse resources, our previous manager managed to make us competitive with teams who went far in the last Euros. Worse resources? Are you sure?


swinging the ball into Duffy has saved Kenny from an even more embarrassing record, he's scored 4 times under Kenny. You couldn't make it up!
See above. Swinging the ball into Duffy made us competitive against Denmark.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

You want him to have us be competitive, yet you were probably one of those lashing into him for saying our ambition was to top the NL group. When did we last top a group? 1987. And that was only because of someone else.

Duffy has scored a few goals in the last 2 years, but other players have as well. We scored 8 goals in our last 4 NL games, more goals than was scored in Mick's last campaign. We took 7 points from our last 4 games. We even won a home game 3-0, at a canter, the easy way. The response to all that improvement was, sack the manager. Name me one manager, Irish or otherwise that wants to do this job in that kind of environment.

I don't expect us to qualify for the Euros, not even before the draw was made. And it's not the end of the world if we can't beat Holland and France. They're a considerable step up in quality from having to beat Denmark and Switzerland, and we weren't good enough to beat them either. But the answer is for us to find better players who are capable of passing a football around a pitch, not change the manager every time.

He should be sacked because he has had 4 miserable failures already. Slovakia, nations league 2020, world cup qualification, nations league 2022. Your cherry picking just won't cut it. It might be alright for you to give up all chance of qualifying for things just because you've backed Kenny and can't admit you backed a donkey.

For most of us, we want to qualify for major tournaments. Saying we might as well give up before starting a group with Serbia and Portugal or France and Holland is not on. We haven't done that for at least 30-40 years. We need to get a manager who is capable of implementing modern tactics. Not someone who needs his coaches to do it for him, can't read a game, fails to make any impactful subs and struggles to put a cohesive sentence together.

[Stuttgart88]

My "thanks" button is disabled osarusan! I agree substantially with your post.

Of course I care, what I meant is that I am impartial as to whether it's Kenny or someone else. Right now I'm not sure who's better that is realistically willing to do the job. i'd be excited to take a punt on someone like Brian Barry Murphy, or even the fabled Anthony Barry but I think we run the risk of a new manager seeing the job as a stepping stone until a better job comes up in English club football. I know people are looking at the Canada manager, but he'd be a flight risk to a club job I reckon, and others like him.

[Jd2793]

He should be sacked because he has had 4 miserable failures already. Slovakia, nations league 2020, world cup qualification, nations league 2022. Your cherry picking just won't cut it. It might be alright for you to give up all chance of qualifying for things just because you've backed Kenny and can't admit you backed a donkey.

For most of us, we want to qualify for major tournaments. Saying we might as well give up before starting a group with Serbia and Portugal or France and Holland is not on. We haven't done that for at least 30-40 years. We need to get a manager who is capable of implementing modern tactics. Not someone who needs his coaches to do it for him, can't read a game, fails to make any impactful subs and struggles to put a cohesive sentence together.


slovakia wasnt a failure by any measure. drawing the game and losing on pens is hardly a disgraceful outcome!

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

Oh get over yourself will you. I’ve better things to do with my life than address every sentence you write. I didn’t ignore Mick’s tenure for any tactical purpose, it was because it wasn't relevant. And I forgot we were utter drivel twice against Georgia.

"Should" we have qualified ahead of Denmark? Really?

In general there’s of course a degree of truth in what you’re saying. Everyone sees the flaws in Kenny and the general direction but you don’t help yourself with the sheer hysterical degree to which you’re making these points and the disingenuousness with which you engage.

Fwiw (using a mobile in a cafe so not easy to navigate) I’m around the same as SkStu and - I think - Osarusan (if I understood his point above right).I think the steps forward were encouraging (Scotland, Ukraine away, Portugal away, two away wins with some really good goals, in Luxembourg in particular) but the steps back have been too frequent and too large to have any confidence. We’ve wasted some good opportunities to go the full hog and do a real root and branch rebuild. The last window made O'Neill look experimental. He should have used Ebosele last year imho.

But there were mitigants at times to the first third of his tenure: Covid, empty stadia, Hourihane’s miss (Jesus Christ…how? And subsequently his gift of a goal to Armenia), Randolph’s inexplicable mistake in Helsinki when we were doing just fine. The U21s were doing well so it was arguably right to leave them be. And subsequently Idah’s injury, Connolly’s everything…

I think we’re behind where we should be after 3 years but I maintain that what Kenny started/tried to start should be finished. I don’t care by whom.

Yes we should have qualified ahead of Denmark! You can rewatch the last match against them if you'd like. Mick's tenure is hugely relevant because Kenny took over right after. Mick set the bar at a height and it wasn't that high really. To have come nowhere near that height really shows what a dreadful job Kenny has done. You of course want to ignore or deny how close we got to qualification because it rubbishes your argument that Kenny has made any progress. You also want to ignore the role of coaches to set up formation, tactics etc for Kenny.

You are also using excuses for Kenny but none for McCarthy. It's ok to admit you've got it way wrong. Kenny has dragged us into the gutter. Stop making excuses for him and trying to defend the indefensible. His record is shameful and what's worse is him putting his self interests above the development of our players.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

I didn't. We were shyte against Gibraltar and Georgia twice. Brushed aside by Switzerland away. A good point in Denmark, all down to - yes - a late Duffy goal. If a Duffy goal is good enough for Mick then it should be good enough for Kenny.

Worse resources? Are you sure?

See above. Swinging the ball into Duffy made us competitive against Denmark.

Yes, as I've said previously, Mick's reign was nothing spectacular and very poor in places. But compared with Kenny's reign.......

I see nothing wrong with pumping a ball into Duffy! It's the Kenny fanatics who like to talk about the cultured football we play under Kenny who want to ignore that Duffy is one of his top goalscorers and an oft used tactic. And also that some of the dullest, most depressing performances ever by an Ireland team have come under Kenny.

Yes, both had very similar squads to begin with and then Kenny has had Bazunu, O Shea, Collins, Molumby, Cullen improving hugely at Anderlecht, Knight, Obefami coming back and a good few more all assisting the squad strength.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

slovakia wasnt a failure by any measure. drawing the game and losing on pens is hardly a disgraceful outcome!

Well if covid excuses have been used above for Kenny, then surely a depleted Slovakia because of covid should be taken into account? You expect a new manager bounce but no, it was the first of Kenny's failures.

[mypost]

He should be sacked because he has had 4 miserable failures already. Slovakia, nations league 2020, world cup qualification, nations league 2022. Your cherry picking just won't cut it. It might be alright for you to give up all chance of qualifying for things just because you've backed Kenny and can't admit you backed a donkey.

For most of us, we want to qualify for major tournaments. Saying we might as well give up before starting a group with Serbia and Portugal or France and Holland is not on. We haven't done that for at least 30-40 years. We need to get a manager who is capable of implementing modern tactics. Not someone who needs his coaches to do it for him, can't read a game, fails to make any impactful subs and struggles to put a cohesive sentence together.

Of course we want to qualify for tournaments. Even San Marino want to qualify for tournaments. Doesn't mean they're capable of getting to them, or holding their own when they get there.

You haven't come up yet with one alternative name, of someone who wants to do this job in an environment, where regardless of the result, people want him to be sacked. Maybe there is no alternative, until we allow someone the time to do the job and not getting all hysterical about losing friendlies, or not winning 2 games in a row. That is something we as fans, can do.

You tell us that Slovakia was a miserable failure. It was a draw against a team that went on to the Euros. Of course, if the man before Kenny was good enough to win one of the two games he had beforehand, we would have had a home Euros to look forward to, rather than a trek to Slovakia during a pandemic instead.

Everyone knew before a ball was kicked that there was no chance of us qualifying out of a WC group with Portugal in it, and we didn't. After the start we had, finishing third after the luxury of consecutive 3-0 wins away from home, was a decent finish to the group rather than a miserable failure. Then came the NL, where we picked up our first win in it and 7 points from the last 4 games. It was much better than our record in it in the past, not the miserable failure you say it was. We won half our home games this year, for the first time in years. So that's not a miserable failure either.

Instead of acknowledging the progress made, the response of course was to call for the manager's head. It doesn't make any sense, but that's the way it is with this fanbase unfortunately. The grass is always greener with someone else, even when it isn't.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

Of course we want to qualify for tournaments. Even San Marino want to qualify for tournaments. Doesn't mean they're capable of getting to them, or holding their own when they get there.

You haven't come up yet with one alternative name, of someone who wants to do this job in an environment, where regardless of the result, people want him to be sacked. Maybe there is no alternative, until we allow someone the time to do the job and not getting all hysterical about losing friendlies, or not winning 2 games in a row. That is something we as fans, can do.

You tell us that Slovakia was a miserable failure. It was a draw against a team that went on to the Euros. Of course, if the man before Kenny was good enough to win one of the two games he had beforehand, we would have had a home Euros to look forward to, rather than a trek to Slovakia during a pandemic instead.

Everyone knew before a ball was kicked that there was no chance of us qualifying out of a WC group with Portugal in it, and we didn't. After the start we had, finishing third after the luxury of consecutive 3-0 wins away from home, was a decent finish to the group rather than a miserable failure. Then came the NL, where we picked up our first win in it and 7 points from the last 4 games. It was much better than our record in it in the past, not the miserable failure you say it was. We won half our home games this year, for the first time in years. So that's not a miserable failure either.

Instead of acknowledging the progress made, the response of course was to call for the manager's head. It doesn't make any sense, but that's the way it is with this fanbase unfortunately. The grass is always greener with someone else, even when it isn't.

Your post reminds me of North Korea in the world cup. They scored one goal and that's all that got shown on TV at home, they didn't show the 12 goals they conceded. :D

Battling it out at the bottom of groups with Luxembourg, Azerbaijan, Bulgaria, Armenia instead of battling it out to qualify is a miserable failure. Full stop, there is no debate.

From nearly qualifying automatically for Euro 2020 to nearly coming bottom in all our groups under Kenny, that's not progress, that's the opposite! Again, there is no debate here, this is all fact.

If it was up to Kenny and his supporters, we might as well not even participate in qualification to major tournaments, we just set up the possession world cup instead and see if we can win that. Lucky Kenny and his backers aren't in charge of Saudi Arabia, Morocco or any of the countries punching above their weight in this world cup.

[CraftyToePoke]

Barrys Belgium 0 - Morocco 2

Just saying ;)

[mypost]

Your post reminds me of North Korea in the world cup. They scored one goal and that's all that got shown on TV at home, they didn't show the 12 goals they conceded. :D

Battling it out at the bottom of groups with Luxembourg, Azerbaijan, Bulgaria, Armenia instead of battling it out to qualify is a miserable failure. Full stop, there is no debate.

From nearly qualifying automatically for Euro 2020 to nearly coming bottom in all our groups under Kenny, that's not progress, that's the opposite! Again, there is no debate here, this is all fact.

If it was up to Kenny and his supporters, we might as well not even participate in qualification to major tournaments, we just set up the possession world cup instead and see if we can win that. Lucky Kenny and his backers aren't in charge of Saudi Arabia, Morocco or any of the countries punching above their weight in this world cup.

Well at least in North Korea, they would be happy to be at the WC and score in it. (It's not as if they can readily protest that their side isn't quite up to WC standard) We would call for the manager to be fired instead, and have done.

40 teams from Europe are not at the WC, most of them with far better players. Basically you have to have an outstanding qualifying campaign to get there, and we haven't had one in 20 years.

You list off all those teams we're battling it out with, as if none of them are allowed to win games, or even climb a table. Azerbaijan and Armenia have domestic teams getting regular group stage European football every year, Luxembourg have European Cup group stage players in their side. Ours are mostly stuck in the Championship or below, hoofing the ball 50 yards away playing to their strengths every week. Well that might be their strengths, but it's not strong enough to get to the WC, and that's not Kenny's fault.

One thing Kenny can do, is stop picking a goalkeeper who can't keep a clean sheet at any level, and concedes twice in every game he plays for us. We don't have the quality upfront or even Duffy, to score three goals all the time it happens. Even when we win he gets slaughtered, but Kenny needs as many wins as he can manage to try and help himself.

[JR89]

Barrys Belgium 0 - Morocco 2

Just saying ;)

Shussssssh, clearly it's only ever Barry's *insert team name* when they win silly. Still take him back as part of the coaching staff and will likely be available again as the P45s are probably already written up for Martinez and Co.

[DCWA]

It’s a bit ambitious but if we are to get rid of Kenny I would like us to go for Alf Ramsey.

[CraftyToePoke]

Shussssssh, clearly it's only ever Barry's *insert team name* when they win silly.

Yeah ;)

'' we need Anthony Barry back ''

& in the next breath

'' we need to be more like Morocco ''

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

Well at least in North Korea, they would be happy to be at the WC and score in it. (It's not as if they can readily protest that their side isn't quite up to WC standard) We would call for the manager to be fired instead, and have done.

40 teams from Europe are not at the WC, most of them with far better players. Basically you have to have an outstanding qualifying campaign to get there, and we haven't had one in 20 years.

You list off all those teams we're battling it out with, as if none of them are allowed to win games, or even climb a table. Azerbaijan and Armenia have domestic teams getting regular group stage European football every year, Luxembourg have European Cup group stage players in their side. Ours are mostly stuck in the Championship or below, hoofing the ball 50 yards away playing to their strengths every week. Well that might be their strengths, but it's not strong enough to get to the WC, and that's not Kenny's fault.

One thing Kenny can do, is stop picking a goalkeeper who can't keep a clean sheet at any level, and concedes twice in every game he plays for us. We don't have the quality upfront or even Duffy, to score three goals all the time it happens. Even when we win he gets slaughtered, but Kenny needs as many wins as he can manage to try and help himself.

Your posts are hilarious! What manager have we sacked after a world cup? No manager was sacked after a European championship even. You are not very fond of facts.

Kenny hasn't just failed to qualify, he's failed to compete in any groups. Unless you count competing with the whipping boys. You're talking down our players and talking up players Azerbaijan, Armenia and Luxembourg. :D

I'm sorry, I get it now. You're parodying Kenny and his supporters. It took me long enough. :D

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

Shussssssh, clearly it's only ever Barry's *insert team name* when they win silly. Still take him back as part of the coaching staff and will likely be available again as the P45s are probably already written up for Martinez and Co.

:D Well Barry improved Ireland from the mess Kenny had them in. That's undisputed at this stage. It still wasn't great though.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

It’s a bit ambitious but if we are to get rid of Kenny I would like us to go for Alf Ramsey.

I'd take Ramsay Bolton!

[Stuttgart88]

Still? :)

Watch out Brazil and Belgium...

There goes Belgium :)

[Stuttgart88]

Yeah ;)

'' we need Anthony Barry back ''

& in the next breath

'' we need to be more like Morocco ''

Ouch!

[mypost]

What manager have we sacked after a world cup? No manager was sacked after a European championship even. You are not very fond of facts.

I'm sorry, I get it now.

The public said Charlton should have walked after the American WC. 18 months later, they got their wish. The public called for McCarthy to be sacked after the last WC. 3 games later, they got their wish. 10 years and several coaches later, we finally got to another tournament. Were we remotely grateful? No, we wanted him fired after that as well. They only had to wait another 15 months to see him off. This happens after every single game, win lose or draw.

You tell us in every post why Kenny must go, but still haven't told me what manager in world football wants to manage Ireland in this environment.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

Ouch!

:D Or "we don't have the players to compete"

Next breath

"Luxembourg and Azerbaijan have really good players".

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

The public said Charlton should have walked after the American WC. 18 months later, they got their wish. The public called for McCarthy to be sacked after the last WC. 3 games later, they got their wish. 10 years and several coaches later, we finally got to another tournament. Were we remotely grateful? No, we wanted him fired after that as well. They only had to wait another 15 months to see him off. This happens after every single game, win lose or draw.

You tell us in every post why Kenny must go, but still haven't told me what manager in world football wants to manage Ireland in this environment.

So no manager was sacked after the world cup or European championships. :D

I haven't had the chance to ask every manager about their interest in taking over but it's a well paid international job, we'll have no problem finding a replacement and let's be honest, it's almost impossible to do a worse job than what Kenny has done.

[SkStu]

Boomer - in the interests of arguing in good faith, who would you like to see in there? Who would you pin your flag to? Give us a name… and what would he have to do differently? In terms of team selection and on field tactics?

[CraftyToePoke]

Boomer - in the interests of arguing in good faith, who would you like to see in there? Who would you pin your flag to? Give us a name… and what would he have to do differently? In terms of team selection and on field tactics?

Agreed, in the interests of good faith in this conversation and I'd use that term very lightly around Boomers, the Mods should apply a time to this to be answered. Anyone can throw rocks and ditch hurl, let him bring something to the debate which progresses and furthers it as other have.

[SkStu]

As expected. TBH a managerial name doesn’t matter too much but I’m more interested in your thoughts on the team and squad selection (who’s missing) and the tactics that would best work with your team so we can start climbing back up the groups (what’s missing).

PS - it just takes too long to type your name out!

[Stuttgart88]

:D Or "we don't have the players to compete"

Next breath

"Luxembourg and Azerbaijan have really good players".what?

[tetsujin1979]

Boomer - in the interests of arguing in good faith, who would you like to see in there? Who would you pin your flag to? Give us a name… and what would he have to do differently? In terms of team selection and on field tactics?
Agreed, 24 hours to respond with a name
Clock is ticking

[CraftyToePoke]

Agreed, 24 hours to respond with a name
Clock is ticking

And some kind of sketch of how it should be done, in his opinion, some actual input of value.
As opposed to the frothy mouthed swivel eyed ranting, would be nice.

[CraftyToePoke]

At the moment, I'd take just about anyone instead of Kenny. Even if that means going back to route one ball

And there we have it, up & at 'em, Ole Ole Ole Ole, big days out, pints, Hail Marys before the match, aren't we a great little country and isn't this great for it.

[mypost]

So no manager was sacked after the world cup or European championships. :D

I haven't had the chance to ask every manager about their interest in taking over but it's a well paid international job, we'll have no problem finding a replacement and let's be honest, it's almost impossible to do a worse job than what Kenny has done.

It very much is possible. Our players are playing at ever lower levels of football, and in so doing, falling further behind the quality and depth that other sides have. Even 5th seeds have top quality players in the best leagues in Europe to choose from. I know you expect this team to be as successful as the Jack era, but you have to recognise where we stand in the pecking order these days, and you don't unfortunately. The money we pay to manage this team is loose change to what an English club is willing to fork out to take him away from here.

While no manager was sacked after a tournament, that didn't stop people wanting it to happen. We now have a 50% win rate and a draw in the last 6 games. Which is comparable to any of the best parts of the reign of previous managers over the past 10 years. Sadly it's not good enough for you.


At the moment, I'd take just about anyone instead of Kenny. Even if that means going back to route one ball but I hope it doesn't come to that. This opportunity was handed on a plate for Kenny, it couldn't have been set up any better but he blew it with complete incompetence.

Now I know that won't satisfy you and you'll demand names, Kenny supporters are very predictable. I don't care though, the most important thing is getting rid of Kenny.

The most important thing is that we bring through new players and develop them, so when we do qualify the next time, we're able to compete and contribute when we get there, rather than get thrashed by better players playing better quality football in every game in the group.

You won't take just about anyone to do this job, everyone has their criteria. I presume you have yours. You still haven't said the name of anyone who wants to turn up and do the job where if he wins he needs to be sacked and if he doesn't win, he still needs to be sacked.

When Kenny got the job, he was handed a ragbag bunch of over the hill footballers, who had failed to qualify again for a major tournament, and only had one way of playing which didn't work. Kenny was, and still is the only one willing to overhaul the squad and style of play. And if we're serious about doing that, then results and qualification will have to take a back seat during the transition. If we're not serious about it, we can throw another few million quid at management, still not qualify for tournaments, and still rely on players not good enough at international level.

[SkStu]

I've already said, I believe we should be playing a system similar to what we thought Kenny would introduce but he turned out to be a numpty. We already had a solid, organised squad, just mix that with a more attacking approach. Not trying to play like Barcelona, combining passing with our direct game in places. Then pick the squad based on form but favour youth. It's simple really. I might put my name forward to replace Kenny.

BOOMSHAKALAKA!!!!!

That is actually pretty disappointing though maybe I just gave you too much credit. But you don’t have anything of substance to offer other than “Kenny must go”. Just a troll.

[SkStu]

It doesn’t take much to read into what I asked and why I was asking for it. It was a simple request for something substantive from you, that others joined in on. But no matter what the motivation, it doesn’t change what you came back with. Nothing. You are little more than a one trick troll. And you get your jollies out of it so good for you.

As I said above, a managerial name isn’t that important. Offering a little more substance than “Kenny is sh!te and anyone else isn’t” is.

[ontheotherhand]

It is tiresome, but we're not going to change manager after winning a game. We continue on the project that we're on, whether we win or not, without demanding that we either qualify or sack the manager.

It's going to be impossible for a new man to come in with a clean slate. He's going to have the likes of me on his back from Day 1, hounding him for parking the bus and not winning games, and eventually everyone else will see through him. Then he gets sacked, the next man is appointed and the cycle repeats itself. It's a toxic environment for any manager to work in, and doesn't allow him any leeway to see what works and what doesn't, or any long term plan. The demand is either win or find someone else who will try to get Championship level squads that we have, to tournaments against the superstars of the sport.

I agree with your take on the current state of things. We say basically the same things on this topic at least.

But where I've changed a bit over the last few games is that I'm not seeing Kenny using the leeway he has to see what works and what doesn't. He looks like he thinks his job is on the line and it is. That's not conducive to making progressive, long term focused decisions and that's what our manager needs to be doing now. That means not playing Jeff Hendrick in a friendly against Malta!

But look it was always going to be rough and I'm still all for the type of project he talked about. I'm just not sure we are seeing it in motion. Maybe it's all just happening a bit slower than I expected. It is international football after all. He gets very little time with the players.

[John83]

Is it really so difficult to imagine someone who could direct the team's attacking patterns a little more capably than Kenny did against Malta? Does that really require a candidate, resume, and a tactical analysis fit for a pro licence? The leaping all over Boomers is a little desperate. Yes, he's gotten tiresome. So have the rest of you.