Stephen Kenny

[Diggs246]

One poster had previously said that there was a break clause in his contract
Do we have any confirmation of that?

(Don't think the fai will action it anyway)

[Eirambler]

The post-nations league exit clause was widely reported at the time and was confirmed by Jonathan Hill.

https://punditarena.com/football/andrewdempsey/jonathan-hill-reveals-exit-clause-stephen-kenny-contract/

https://extra.ie/2022/03/11/sport/soccernews/stephen-kenny-ireland-contract-exit-clause

[Diggs246]

Ok thanks for that
If they keep him we simply are not going to Germany.. way too many poor results with the odd very good one doesn't butter the turnips.

Is there a list of available managers ?

[Eirambler]

You've changed your tune since last week!!😀

[pineapple stu]

For all the shouting and roaring.. we finished where we were supposed to finish.. 3rd

We were third seeds going in.. and finished third

We're among teams of similar ability

Beat Scotland who are now an A side

Drew and lost narrowly to Ukraine..

Beat and lost to Armenia

Apart from the loss to Armenia, we played a par round
I don't buy that at all, sorry.

We lost to Ukraine's second string. We needed a last-minute penalty to beat Armenia at home, having completely lost the plot in the last 20 minutes. The defeat out there was an appalling result when you look at how Scotland and Ukraine breezed past them home and away; you can't gloss over it by saying "Apart from the loss to Armenia...". Scotland now being an A side is irrelevant - someone was going to win the group. Wales got one point in Division A this time and I expect Scotland to do about as well (Austria and the Czechs were also relegated but with four points, and Hungary got 10 points and nearly made the finals)

And at the end, we were nowhere near beating our seeding for the third campaign in a row, which is a worry. So well done us on finishing ahead of a Bulgaria side in freefall, Luxembourg/Azerbaijan, and now Armenia. And that's it.

The bigger picture for me is that 21 competitive games in, we're still far too capable of delivering the same Groundhog Day performance - start off lively, lose our way, show no creativity, and be as likely to score from a corner as anything else. Even the two Obafemi goals - brilliant as they were - were out of nothing and not the result of decent approach play. The kind of goals we lament when Armenia score against us because sure they never looked like scoring and then out of the blue we're 1-0 down and don't feel we deserve to be. Also a bit worried that we've conceded four times in the last two games when we were always strong defensively.

Yes, there's issues with the squad, but I don't think Kenny can completely hide behind that. If that break clause is there as reported, I think there has to be a genuine discussion now about activating it.

[Stuttgart88]

It's a results business

[Diggs246]

You've changed your tune since last week!!😀
Me ? I've never liked him
I'm not confident the fai will get rid of him though

[placid casual]

I think Kenny shows his lack of game awareness through his substitutions, but it looks to me like the current crop of players are playing for him, so I think it goes back to player quality and not management quality.
He needs to get rid of hourihane,brady and hendrick and reluctantly probably mcclean as well as I think they drag everyone else down with their lack of quality. I dont think Kenny is a forceful enough presence but I'm not sure if s? replace him that the replacement would do any better.
He will be fired if the euro qualifiers start badly, but that would still give his replacement an excuse of needing 18 months to bed in their "football philosophy" and were back to square 1..

[Real ale Madrid]

The post-nations league exit clause was widely reported at the time and was confirmed by Jonathan Hill.

https://punditarena.com/football/andrewdempsey/jonathan-hill-reveals-exit-clause-stephen-kenny-contract/

https://extra.ie/2022/03/11/sport/soccernews/stephen-kenny-ireland-contract-exit-clause

So do they review his contract and not pay him off if dissatisfied? Otherwise its not a clause.

[Jd2793]

I think Kenny shows his lack of game awareness through his substitutions, but it looks to me like the current crop of players are playing for him, so I think it goes back to player quality and not management quality.
He needs to get rid of hourihane,brady and hendrick and reluctantly probably mcclean as well as I think they drag everyone else down with their lack of quality. I dont think Kenny is a forceful enough presence but I'm not sure if s? replace him that the replacement would do any better.
He will be fired if the euro qualifiers start badly, but that would still give his replacement an excuse of needing 18 months to bed in their "football philosophy" and were back to square 1..

not sure how you watch last night and conclude brady must be axed. he has a place in the squad. hourihane hasnt done anything of note, ever, for ireland. i still have nightmares about his performance against andorra. kennys hands were tied with the 21s campaign. I dont think theres any midfielders down there who'll make us qualification certs but there should be some that are at least as good as/better than hourihane so lets get them in and see what they are like.

[osarusan]

For me the main question to ask of an international manager is whether or not they are consistently getting the most out of the pool of players at their disposal. You can't expect any more than that, and shouldn't expect any less, not after a bedding in period anyway.

I dont think Kenny is doing that. On the good days, the results after which people talk about 'turning a corner' and 'green shoots' and the like, I'd say he is getting the best out of his players, or very close to it. But we celebrated a dominant away win in Azerbaijan like it was something special, when it really wasn't - it was a set of players comfortably defeating a weaker set of players. We should be winning those.

Unfortunately, I think that under Kenny, the number of matches in which we have had poorer performances and/or results than we should have against the opposition in question considering the players at his disposal is clearly a greater number that those matches in which we've delivered a performance and/or result that was impressive given the players at his disposal.

[Trequartista20]

The same mistakes being made over and again. How many goals have we conceded from long range strikes now under Kenny? This isn't simply down to bad luck as his advocates would have it . They aren't 'flukes' that have simply 'come out of nowhere'. This has been a consistent feature of Kenny's time in charge

Kenny's in-game management, inability to react to events on the pitch and timing and choice of substitutes have always seemed questionable to me.

As others have said, Hourihane shouldn't have been in the squad, much less on the pitch.

His drop down to League One should have marked the natural end-point of his Ireland career. His career is clearly in precipitous decline; his having gone in successive seasons from playing in the PL with Villa, to playing regularly in the Championship Swansea, to being a bit-part Championship player at Sheffield Utd, to dropping to the third tier this season. Why can't Kenny recognise this?

Smallbone and Sykes are playing regularly in the Championship. McGrath's back playing regularly. Coventry's in and around the West Ham first team and has a very good loan spell at MK last season. Jack Taylor's playing at the same level as Hourihane and is far more mobile. Manning can play there. So it's not as if Kenny doesn't have options. Even moving Brady into midfield and bringing on McClean would have been a better move.

[Eirambler]

So do they review his contract and not pay him off if dissatisfied? Otherwise its not a clause.

Basically yes. It means they can cancel the contract before the Euro groups start. Would either be no payoff, or a small severance amount that would be far less than what he would have got if he stayed on for the groups, depending on the wording of the signed contract.

While we obviously can't know the exact details in the contract, it's clear from the reports and Hill's comments that Kenny's side rallied against this being included, which is why the contract talks dragged on for so long. But Hill has subsequently confirmed that it's in there, which means the FAI won out in the negotiations and Kenny had to accept the clause.

[Jd2793]

The same mistakes being made over and again. How many goals have we conceded from long range strikes now under Kenny? This isn't simply down to bad luck as his advocates would have it . They aren't 'flukes' that have simply 'come out of nowhere'. This has been a consistent feature of Kenny's time in charge

Kenny's in-game management, inability to react to events on the pitch and timing and choice of substitutes have always seemed questionable to me.

As others have said, Hourihane shouldn't have been in the squad, much less on the pitch.

His drop down to League One should have marked the natural end-point of his Ireland career. His career is clearly in precipitous decline; his having gone in successive seasons from playing in the PL with Villa, to playing regularly in the Championship Swansea, to being a bit-part Championship player at Sheffield Utd, to dropping to the third tier this season. Why can't Kenny recognise this?

Smallbone and Sykes are playing regularly in the Championship. McGrath's back playing regularly. Coventry's in and around the West Ham first team and has a very good loan spell at MK last season. Jack Taylor's playing at the same level as Hourihane and is far more mobile. Manning can play there. So it's not as if Kenny doesn't have options. Even moving Brady into midfield and bringing on McClean would have been a better move.


take smallbone from the 21s? mcgrath is playing at midtable spl side just a grade up from loi, regardless hes not an 8 so no thank you. coventry again is a key 21 player. hourihane is poor and last night should spell the end but kenny didnt have a whole pile in reserve. remains to be seen what a few of the 21s can do, i assume they get a chance in november. i wouldnt hold out much hope that they'll move the needle for us

[backstothewall]

The same mistakes being made over and again. How many goals have we conceded from long range strikes now under Kenny? This isn't simply down to bad luck as his advocates would have it . They aren't 'flukes' that have simply 'come out of nowhere'. This has been a consistent feature of Kenny's time in charge

Kenny's in-game management, inability to react to events on the pitch and timing and choice of substitutes have always seemed questionable to me.

As others have said, Hourihane shouldn't have been in the squad, much less on the pitch.

His drop down to League One should have marked the natural end-point of his Ireland career. His career is clearly in precipitous decline; his having gone in successive seasons from playing in the PL with Villa, to playing regularly in the Championship Swansea, to being a bit-part Championship player at Sheffield Utd, to dropping to the third tier this season. Why can't Kenny recognise this?

Smallbone and Sykes are playing regularly in the Championship. McGrath's back playing regularly. Coventry's in and around the West Ham first team and has a very good loan spell at MK last season. Jack Taylor's playing at the same level as Hourihane and is far more mobile. Manning can play there. So it's not as if Kenny doesn't have options. Even moving Brady into midfield and bringing on McClean would have been a better move.

I agree with the point about substitutions. Weird and illogical decisions have been feature of his reign. It's difficult not to think that he's prone to overthinking things under the pressure of a game as it's happening.

[Diggs246]

So do they review his contract and not pay him off if dissatisfied? Otherwise its not a clause.

My view is a that if they sacked him today his compenstation would be very small if not actually nothing.
Thats usually how it would work i guess

[paul_oshea]

take smallbone from the 21s? mcgrath is playing at midtable spl side just a grade up from loi, regardless hes not an 8 so no thank you. coventry again is a key 21 player. hourihane is poor and last night should spell the end but kenny didnt have a whole pile in reserve. remains to be seen what a few of the 21s can do, i assume they get a chance in november. i wouldnt hold out much hope that they'll move the needle for us

Why not push collins into the holding role last night, bring duffy on take off molumby. Something a bit different and a bit innovative. To me it made sense given how far up the pitch collins was playing anyway. Whats he doing up there? he did the same against scotland. Feels like hes an attacking midfielder trapped inside a Centre backs body.


It's difficult not to think that he's prone to overthinking things under the pressure of a game as it's happening.

I mentioned this last night, I dont even think its even overthinking things - i mean he is - but he is just not in control of the situation. He looks all meek on the sideline.

[pineapple stu]

As others have said, Hourihane shouldn't have been in the squad, much less on the pitch.

His drop down to League One should have marked the natural end-point of his Ireland career.

Smallbone and Sykes are playing regularly in the Championship. McGrath's back playing regularly. Coventry's in and around the West Ham first team and has a very good loan spell at MK last season. Jack Taylor's playing at the same level as Hourihane and is far more mobile.
I've defended Hourihane (mildly) on here before but I think you're definitely right about the drop in division being a natural end alright.

But the others - McGrath isn't good enough and isn't the same player as Hourihane anyway (as Jd has said). Coventry was recalled from his Championship loan last year and dropped a division; I think it's too early for him. Sykes - again, League One. Smallbone - has only played a handful of games.

I know you're putting them across as alternatives, not panaceas, but still - meh. I see players like Knight, Parrott and Molumby getting stick for recent games; they're still playing at a low level and maybe not becoming the players we once hyped them up to be, and I don't think adding more players of that level is going to help much.

Again, I know you're just suggesting alternatives, but they're not massively appealing to be honest.

[Eirambler]

The long range strikes issue comes down to Kenny's single biggest failing of his time in charge - his regular failure to adequately resource his midfield, especially against lower seeded teams.

It had been better recently, because Cullen and Molumby have plugged that hole well and we have had Knight in front of them as well. But as soon as one or both of them become unavailable Kenny goes back to the same mistakes of the previously tried and failed - Hourihane, Hendrick and Browne. Hourihane is so bad that having him in a deep midfield position is as bad as having nobody there, Hendrick drifts out of position constantly and tries to play a passing game that he's not consistently good enough at, Browne can pop up with a goal now and then but he's a liability further back as we have seen.

Kenny has had two years to resource this area and hasn't. He could have brought Coventry in - he's not brilliant but he'd sit in position and fill the hole. So would James McCarthy to be honest and he'd probably appreciate the minutes on the pitch if he's anyways fit. If he was back there last night instead of Hourihane that mess wouldn't have happened. Others have mentioned Taylor and Sykes who haven't been given a chance.

We're not talking about these players as first team regulars - just lads that can fill a hole when needed like last night, a country with a playing pool our size needs those players as well - exactly so we don't end up with Hourihane on the pitch again.

For whatever reason Kenny can't see this. I think it's because he just doesn't have it. He does lots of things well off the field but he doesn't read the game well at all - and doesn't seem to have any in-game management ability. That's why we won't be qualifying for Germany if he is allowed to continue.

[paul_oshea]

Paul still hasn't learned how to use the multi quote button.

Couple of things here, its difficult on the phone to read, as you go in order and then quote on them you cant see what youre quoting too - i mostly use foot on the phone now . Secondly i hate reading multi quoted posts some posters in bygones really liked their opinions and reading their own posts so this became a trademark that turned me off the users pretty quickly. Another example RAM ramming his point home to stu with multi quotes i just skipped by too much reading especially on a phone - and i like both posters saying all that.

Squash and merge function on foot.ie tets? Just checkbox the posts, submit and youre done.

[Real ale Madrid]

My view is a that if they sacked him today his compensation would be very small if not actually nothing.
Thats usually how it would work i guess

I doubt he (or any other manager tbf) would have signed a contract that could have seen him sacked with little compensation after 6 games - sure what's the point of singing a contract at all in that case. I think its good to sit down an review things periodically but its not a contractual issue. Kenny is here to stay and while there are plenty of valid concerns I think he deserves the Euro Qualifiers which are obviously make or break for him now.

[ifk101]

Why not push collins into the holding role last night, bring duffy on take off molumby. Something a bit different and a bit innovative. To me it made sense given how far up the pitch collins was playing anyway. Whats he doing up there? he did the same against scotland. Feels like hes an attacking midfielder trapped inside a Centre backs body.

So playing Collins out of position, a position he has never played before?, in a game we could not lose, is innovative?

We have a history of pushing CBs forward under Kenny when in possession of the ball, see Duffy against Qatar as the clearest example of this. That's the advantage of playing 3 CBs.

[paul_oshea]

We were 2-0 up at home. Taking molumby off was a defensive measure. Having another CB on the pitch was not a bad idea, given collins spent most of his time in midfield in the second half it was a sensible thing to try out along with as you and others have said we were in control of the game - if not now then when?

[Jd2793]

The long range strikes issue comes down to Kenny's single biggest failing of his time in charge - his regular failure to adequately resource his midfield, especially against lower seeded teams.

It had been better recently, because Cullen and Molumby have plugged that hole well and we have had Knight in front of them as well. But as soon as one or both of them become unavailable Kenny goes back to the same mistakes of the previously tried and failed - Hourihane, Hendrick and Browne. Hourihane is so bad that having him in a deep midfield position is as bad as having nobody there, Hendrick drifts out of position constantly and tries to play a passing game that he's not consistently good enough at, Browne can pop up with a goal now and then but he's a liability further back as we have seen.

Kenny has had two years to resource this area and hasn't. He could have brought Coventry in - he's not brilliant but he'd sit in position and fill the hole. So would James McCarthy to be honest and he'd probably appreciate the minutes on the pitch if he's anyways fit. If he was back there last night instead of Hourihane that mess wouldn't have happened. Others have mentioned Taylor and Sykes who haven't been given a chance.

We're not talking about these players as first team regulars - just lads that can fill a hole when needed like last night, a country with a playing pool our size needs those players as well - exactly so we don't end up with Hourihane on the pitch again.

For whatever reason Kenny can't see this. I think it's because he just doesn't have it. He does lots of things well off the field but he doesn't read the game well at all - and doesn't seem to have any in-game management ability. That's why we won't be qualifying for Germany if he is allowed to continue.

for the love of god. coventry had a poor loan then dropped to l1, hardly a guy banging down kennys door. anyway as 21s captain it would have been mad to call him up mid campaign. sykes has been playing rwb all season. the reaction to mccarthy getting called up would have been worth it tbh. a guy who has no real interest in playing for us anymore and who has no real place in celtics 11.
the whole truth is that we are short of any real options in midfield.
we have 1 good no6 (cullen) a half decent combative midfielder in molumby and not much else. we desperately lack a box to box 8 with a bit of technique. hourihane is finished, hendrick is better more advanced as he doesnt have the legs and knight just seems to run around.

[pineapple stu]

I doubt he (or any other manager tbf) would have signed a contract that could have seen him sacked with little compensation after 6 games - sure what's the point of singing a contract at all in that case.
"We're offering you a new contract, but we want to put a break clause in it after the Nations League to see how that goes. We're not entirely happy with results and think it would be a good option for the Association."

"I want a contract with no break clause."

"We're not offering that."

"OK - but I'm not signing one with a break clause."

"Fine - no contract offer so. Good luck!"

[ifk101]

We were 2-0 up at home. Taking molumby off was a defensive measure. Having another CB on the pitch was not a bad idea, given collins spent most of his time in midfield in the second half it was a sensible thing to try out along with as you and others have said we were in control of the game - if not now then when?

He had to take Molumby off - that decision was forced on him. He made a like for like change - why change the whole game plan when we were coasting to victory and under no apparent threat? To be innovative?

[Snapshot]

Whither the as yet unappointed new assistant? If Kenny goes after a bad Euros start, where would that leave the new assistant? Dumped after two competitive games? The new manager would surely bring or recommend his own man.

[Real ale Madrid]

"We're offering you a new contract, but we want to put a break clause in it after the Nations League to see how that goes. We're not entirely happy with results and think it would be a good option for the Association."

"I want a contract with no break clause."

"We're not offering that."

"OK - but I'm not signing one with a break clause."

"Fine - no contract offer so. Good luck!"

Reads like "We'll offer you a new deal but we want the option to sack you after 6 games"

There isn't a manger in the world that would sign that.

"A break clause" - ffs

[pineapple stu]

That's exactly what it sounds like. Because the first two campaigns were fairly poor stuff.

If that's what he was offered, what's Kenny's alternative? Walk? Take a huge paycut and go back to Dundalk?

[Real ale Madrid]

That's exactly what it sounds like. Because the first two campaigns were fairly poor stuff.

If that's what he was offered, what's Kenny's alternative? Walk?

He obviously wasn't offered that though.

If there is a review and he is sacked it will be with full compensation. If that's the route they want to go down then fine, but lets not dress it up as some sort of clause that will see him get the sack with little or no compensation. Neither of the articles linked go into any detail about his contract. Everything else is pure speculation.

[pineapple stu]

He obviously wasn't offered that though.
Why not?

What's "full compensation"? Is it a nominal figure agreed in the contract? (Which may be a lot less than paying off the balance of it)

Why would you need a clause to sack someone with full compensation when you can do that anyway?

[Real ale Madrid]

Why not?

What's "full compensation"? Is it a nominal figure agreed in the contract? (Which may be a lot less than paying off the balance of it)

Why would you need a clause to sack someone with full compensation when you can do that anyway?

I'm lost now - I very much doubt there is any clause in Kenny's contract - I'm not arguing that there is one. There is a standard review at the end of the NL but I'm speculating that it does not have any contractual implications.

He has a set amount of time and the FAI will have to compensate him to the full amount of his current contract if at any stage they wish to dispense with his services. If they wanted to review contractually after the NL - he should have been offered a different type of contract e.g. 8 months with an option for a further 12 months (I'm not sure when his last contract expired)

The idea that he signed a contract but can be sacked during the timeframe of that contract without penalty doesn't make any sense to me.

[Trequartista20]

But the others - McGrath isn't good enough and isn't the same player as Hourihane anyway (as Jd has said). Coventry was recalled from his Championship loan last year and dropped a division; I think it's too early for him. Sykes - again, League One. Smallbone - has only played a handful of games.

Again, I know you're just suggesting alternatives, but they're not massively appealing to be honest.

Agree with the main gist of your post. Two or three, depending on the system, of Cullen, Molumby, Knight and Hendrick should make up our starting midfield. My point is that Kenny needs to add depth. Sykes is playing regularly in the Championship for Bristol City this season, albeit out of position. Smallbone's made 10 appearances for Stoke, including 7 starts.


take smallbone from the 21s? mcgrath is playing at midtable spl side just a grade up from loi, regardless hes not an 8 so no thank you. coventry again is a key 21 player. hourihane is poor and last night should spell the end but kenny didnt have a whole pile in reserve. remains to be seen what a few of the 21s can do, i assume they get a chance in november. i wouldnt hold out much hope that they'll move the needle for us

I wouldn't have any qualms about promoting under-21 players, that's the whole point of underage teams. Crawford has plenty of depth, as evidenced by the players he can afford to leave out. Coventry and Smallbone are both 22 - 23 before the end of the season. If they aren't ready for senior football now they'll never be. Wales recently called up a 17-year-old with one senior appearance behind him.

The alternatives I've mentioned aren't like-for-like replacements for Hourihane, but who is?

He's not an 8 either. Neither is he a 6 or a 10. I'm not quite sure what he is other than a luxury player, who'll occasionally ping a shot at goal from the edge of the box or whip in a decent cross, but does precious little else for the remainder of the 90 minutes, often going completely missing for long periods of the game.

[Jd2793]

Agree with some of that. Two or three, depending on the system, of Cullen, Molumby, Knight and Hendrick should make up our starting midfield. My point is that Kenny needs to add depth. Sykes is playing regularly in the Championship for Bristol City this season albeit out of position. Smallbone's made 10 appearances for Stoke, including 7 starts.



I wouldn't have any qualms about promoting under-21 players, that's the whole point of underage teams. Crawford has plenty of depth, as evidenced by the players he can afford to leave out. Coventry and Smallbone are both 22 - 23 before the end of the season. If they aren't ready for senior football now they'll never be. Wales recently called up a 17-year-old with one senior appearance behind him.

The alternatives I've mentioned aren't like-for-like replacements for Hourihane, but who is?

He's not an 8 either. Neither is he a 6 or a 10. I'm not quite sure what he is other than a luxury player, who'll occasionally ping a shot at goal from the edge of the box or whip in a decent cross, but does precious little else for the remainder of the 90 minutes, often going completely missing for long periods of the game.


kenny would have been slated for calling these lads up mid campaign. he got grief from some quarters for taking bazunu and the likes up with him 2 years ago. imagine the uproar if he took the u21s midfield from them with qualifying on the line? he was in a no win situation in this window in this regard IMO. time for some change next time out though.

[pineapple stu]

The idea that he signed a contract but can be sacked during the timeframe of that contract without penalty doesn't make any sense to me.
Why not though?

If he was offered a contract that said "Two years, but we'll review after the Nations League and we can terminate it at a cost of €x", what were his alternatives?

I don't know what's there either, but reading the articles Eirambler linked in post 1902, there's something there, it seems there's to be a review at the end of the year, and its inclusion caused a delay in Kenny signing the new deal.

I don't see why there a clause that says "We can terminate at any stage and pay up the contract in full" would cause Kenny to delay signing. I do see why a clause that says "We will review performance at the end of 2022 and reserve the right to terminate the contract by means of two months' salary" (or something like that) would cause him to delay.

[weldoninhio]

kenny would have been slated for calling these lads up mid campaign. he got grief from some quarters for taking bazunu and the likes up with him 2 years ago. imagine the uproar if he took the u21s midfield from them with qualifying on the line? he was in a no win situation in this window in this regard IMO. time for some change next time out though.

So what? Who cares if he would have got slated? The senior team comes first. He isn?t there to protect U-21 players from getting senior call ups so that the 21s can be successful. I honestly can?t believe some of the absolute nonsense people are coming out with to excuse Kenny.

[Stuttgart88]

I agree with the point about substitutions. Weird and illogical decisions have been feature of his reign. It's difficult not to think that he's prone to overthinking things under the pressure of a game as it's happening.

Molumby was another tackle away from a red. Replacing him with Hourihane in a comfortable enough game didn't seem too ilogical at the time.I have always thought Hourihane was powder puff in green but even I couldn't have envisaged how we just went to pot after he came on. I don't think it was weird or illogical, though with hindsight it was a calamity. Even Hourihane's volleyed miss was dreadful.

[DCWA]

As much as you can be critical of Kenny?s subs and in game tactical ability (and there are certainly questions to be answered there to say the least) I don?t think midfield issues are his fault. We have a midfield trio of Cullen, Knight and Molumbuy, one very good Championship player, one average Championship player and one very good League 1 player.

The fact is that we have nothing at all after that now. Hendrick in flashes, Browne meh, Sykes maybe. Taylor I don?t know enough about. Coventry probably isn?t ready, likewise Smallbone. McGrath isn?t good enough, Jack Byrne isn?t even standing out in LOI now - someone even mentioned James McCarthy there, which is mind boggling as his career is sadly all but over.

The Collins to sitting midfield role when we are missing players or defending a lead is an experiment that could be worth having but it could go either way, we could take out best player out of position and pay the price for it.

We are exceptionally light in there and there is not much anyone can do about it.

[Diggs246]

Molumby was another tackle away from a red. Replacing him with Hourihane in acomfortable enough game didn't seem too ilogical at the time.I have always thought Hourihane was powdere puff in green but even I couldn't have envisaged how we just went to pot after he came on. I don't think it wsa weird or illogical, though with hindsight it was a calamity. Even Hourihane's volleyed miss was dreadful.

I think its illogical to have him in the squad though? He has shown for years that he is a poor player.

[DCWA]

Molumby was another tackle away from a red. Replacing him with Hourihane in a comfortable enough game didn't seem too ilogical at the time.I have always thought Hourihane was powder puff in green but even I couldn't have envisaged how we just went to pot after he came on. I don't think it was weird or illogical, though with hindsight it was a calamity. Even Hourihane's volleyed miss was dreadful.

Would agree with this too, I don?t slate Kenny for this sub last night it was all a bit of a formality. There can be no one that can genuinely say they sat there and thought oh no this is going to cost us the game. If anything I thought it might be a game where Hourihane could ping the ball about and look half decent maybe even get a few shots off from that 20-30 yard range something I felt we didn?t have someone to do in the first half (possibly Brady but not much oppportunity from LWB for that).

As it transpires there are no games in a green shirt left in which Hourihane can look good.

The sub at the time however, was or seemed fine.

[Diggs246]

Would agree with this too, I don?t slate Kenny for this sub last night it was all a bit of a formality. There can be no one that can genuinely say they sat there and thought oh no this is going to cost us the game. If anything I thought it might be a game where Hourihane could ping the ball about and look half decent maybe even get a few shots off from that 20-30 yard range something I felt we didn?t have someone to do in the first half (possibly Brady but not much oppportunity from LWB for that).

As it transpires there are no games in a green shirt left in which Hourihane can look good.

The sub at the time however, was or seemed fine.


I nearly died when I saw him come on and said this is a big problem and I'm not nostradamus. I just know playing a sh*t player isn't good management. He did have to take Molumby off, but not for Hourihane

[DCWA]

I nearly died when I saw him come on and said this is a big problem and I'm not nostradamus. I just know playing a sh*t player isn't good management. He did have to take Molumby off, but not for Hourihane

No one can say they expected us to near throw away the game on the back of bringing Hourihane on is what I said. He is a poor player, it wasn?t an inclusion in the squad I would support never mind an inclusion on the pitch at any stage but no manager or fan would have predicted the near disastrous impact him coming on had.

[ifk101]

I know he wasn't in the squad, but if we are talking about alternatives to Cullen, Omobamidele would be more suited to a midfield anchor role than Collins imo. My sense is Omobamidele is more mobile and capable of covering more space than Collins in that role, and he has a good brain and footballing ability to boot.

[Stuttgart88]

I think its illogical to have him in the squad though? He has shown for years that he is a poor player.For us yes, and at club level shows flashes of quality. Until we can call on the U21s (now as it'd appear to happen) he's always going to be in or around the squad.

You'd swear he was an active anti-Kenny agent though. Misses a near tap in in Slovakia, gifts an equaliser to Armenia. Both potential turning points in SK's tenure!

As a pal said in a chat last night he poses around the pitch thinking he's Zidane. I think that's what I hate most about him.

[Diggs246]

For us yes, and at club level shows flashes of quality. Until we can call on the U21s (now as it'd appear to happen) he's always going to be in or around the squad.

You'd swear he was an active anti-Kenny agent though. Misses a near tap in in Slovakia, gifts an equaliser to Armenia. Both potential turning points in SK's tenure!

As a pal said in a chat last night he poses around the pitch thinking he's Zidane. I think that's what I hate most about him.

No need for u21s yesterday
Just push Brady up to midfield and bring on mclean
This isn't me being captain hindsight
I'm simply avoiding playing a poor player and I don't think that's complicated.

He's in game management is awful
He subbed obefemi off v Scotland. I mean sweet jesus

[Stuttgart88]

That'd have been a fair call alright.

[ifk101]

Kenny did try playing Brady in the middle before and it didn't work - he was on a different wavelength to everyone else. And if you moved him into the middle last night, the midfield loses its balance without somebody sitting (Knight, Hendrick or Brady are not going to sit). But beyond a couple of good crosses, did Brady have a good game? Seemed to me he slowed play and didn't have the pace to go by their fullback. Once Hourihane came on (set-piece taker), was there a need to keep Brady on the pitch? Think I'd have preferred McClean's directness and energy. After what Hourihane did last night, I don't think he can have complaints if he is not picked again. But once Molumby forced Kenny's hand, Hourihane was the correct sub to make of the options available.

Obafami looked tired against Scotland imo.

[Stuttgart88]

I expect to be none the wiser about Kenny's abilities or the level of talent in the team after these two games. That's part of the entertainment factor with this past few years under Kenny though... no idea what we'll get... but all the time young players are getting a chance and building experience (and being forgiven mistakes and medicore moments).. and the overall play still feels like an improvement on some of the turgid dependability of previous generations of the Irish team. Can't make head nor tail of it though. Looking forward to both matches.This (from the Scotland/Armenia thread)!!

I can't even make head nor tale of sections within games now.

I think the in-game management criticisms are fair but equally I think it's fair to point out that the options are limited too and individual brain farts are players' responsibility.

[paul_oshea]

He had to take Molumby off - that decision was forced on him. He made a like for like change - why change the whole game plan when we were coasting to victory and under no apparent threat? To be innovative?

This is what I'm talking about, he knows the limitations of Hourihane his complete lack of ability to play that role, or at least he should, so we had to make a defensive minded change considering we were taking off a defensive midfielder. We were 2-0 up at home against the 92nd ranked team and a blind man and his monkey know we need to find alternatives, Collins was playing much further forward than he should have been anyway, we'd have kept a defensive minded midfielder in the holding role and we need to try out alternatives for that position that was a very appropriate time to try it out.

There might be other better alternatives but Collins can't have done any worse than hourihane and I dont think anyone would have had issues with that trying, in fact I'd say many of us would be discussing the out of left field change from Kenny in trying it out.

[Kingdom]

Kenny did try playing Brady in the middle before and it didn't work - he was on a different wavelength to everyone else. And if you moved him into the middle last night, the midfield loses its balance without somebody sitting (Knight, Hendrick or Brady are not going to sit). But beyond a couple of good crosses, did Brady have a good game? Seemed to me he slowed play and didn't have the pace to go by their fullback. Once Hourihane came on (set-piece taker), was there a need to keep Brady on the pitch? Think I'd have preferred McClean's directness and energy. After what Hourihane did last night, I don't think he can have complaints if he is not picked again. But once Molumby forced Kenny's hand, Hourihane was the correct sub to make of the options available.

Obafami looked tired against Scotland imo.

Robbie Brady was abysmal last night. 2/15 crosses that were decent, and a penalty don't mask that.