James McClean M Wrexham b.1989 [Archive] - Page 52

TheOneWhoKnocks

13/05/2015, 8:57 PM

I would be extremely surprised if he hasn't had/will receive offers from across Europe. I would say it is a formality. The reason there isn't a spread of Irish players across the continent isn't because of some embargo. It is because Irish players don't entertain the possibility.

We wouldn't even have known about teams from around Europe having offers on the table for O'Dea, were it not for O'Dea publicising it.

O'Dea himself has said it has done him the world of good and he would recommend it to his compatriots.

At the end of the day, it's a fantastic move for him and his wife on a personal level, but it's a job not a hobby.

His first priority should be to move to a strong English team and build on the reputation he has built back up again this season at Wigan. He has strong competition for a place in the Ireland team with McGeady, Brady & Pilkington. NY Red Bulls is a pure resting on laurels move.

It's not good for Ireland. Not good.

DannyInvincible

13/05/2015, 9:53 PM

I would be extremely surprised if he hasn't had/will receive offers from across Europe. I would say it is a formality.

Why do you think it a "formality"? What are you basing this on exactly? Aren't you simply allowing your own frustrations and desires to colour what is no more than pure speculation? I don't even see why it would be reasonable to consider it likely that he's had offers from all over Europe.

Maybe my suspicion is mistaken, but I'd suggest the reason O'Dea publicised it was because the rarity of it made it noteworthy.

You say it's a job; indeed, it's their job, and a short-lasting one at that. You think footballers take decisions like transfers lightly? They have to weigh up possible risks and benefits just like any other working human being. It'll probably be a bit of a relief for James to get away from the anti-republican/poppy-related nonsense to which he's been subjected throughout his time in England too.

It is because Irish players don't entertain the possibility.

A few players have been named above - Roy, Hunt, Forde (is that it?) - but is there a known list of players (who've declined the opportunity) as long as the list who have had a stab at playing on the continent (Robbie, McGeady, O'Dea, Finnan, Harte...)?

We don't know who Forde's offer came from. It could have been an offer to play back-up for a second-tier German team, for all we know. And Valenciennes are a Ligue 2/lower-half Ligue 1 side. I think we can certainly forgive Hunt for having held out for something more preferable then, even if he did end up regretting it in hindsight due to how things might have later transpired.

(James won't be married until next year, by the way.)

TheOneWhoKnocks

13/05/2015, 10:30 PM

You're on this tangent about Forde again. He said he was wanted by a Bundesliga team and you're on about a hypothetical scenario about him being a #2 and/or at a 2nd Division team while grousing at me about hypothetical scenarios.

Hunt, too. Calling a Ligue 1 team a Ligue 2 team.

If Forde had to contend for the goalies gloves at a Bundesliga team so be it. He stayed at Millwall, endured another relegation battle, lost his place in the Ireland team and will be playing League One football next season. That's his lot.

Is that it? No, that's not it. I am sure Stephen Carr regrets not moving to the continent when he was linked with Barcelona instead of having his career peter out at Newcastle. Damien Duff, likewise.

McClean was voted fans' player of the year at Wigan. It would be remiss to let a fringe group of idiots drive him out of a country. I think a move to the MLS is something he should wait a few years for. It is not going to make him a better player.

DannyInvincible

13/05/2015, 11:13 PM

You're on this tangent about Forde again. He said he was wanted by a Bundesliga team and you're on about a hypothetical scenario about him being a #2 and/or at a 2nd Division team while grousing at me about hypothetical scenarios.

Why do you call it a "tangent"? Forde is central to your narrative that Ireland players are consistently declining offers from continental sides out of fear and lack of ambition. Show me a quote where Forde stated he had an offer from a Bundesliga team. He said it was from a German team. Some headline writer might have made an assumption for all we know when (possibly mis)informing the public there was an offer from a Bundesliga side. I don't profess to know the nature of the offer at all; I'm simply emphasising the point that we are in no position to judge the offer because we have no idea as to its actual nature, besides Forde's exceptionally vague description.

Hunt, too. Calling a Ligue 1 team a Ligue 2 team.

Valenciennes are a Ligue 2 team presently. They might have been in Ligue 1 when they were interested in Hunt - I'm not sure - but they more-often-than-not feature as lower-half fodder when in Ligue 1, don't they? Which I simultaneously acknowledged in my description of them. Last time they finished above tenth in Ligue 1? They're certainly not a Ligue 1 powerhouse with pedigree anyway (certainly not recently), which is my general point. Ipswich, meanwhile, have recently been a club challenging for a place in the superior English Premier League. Do you think choosing a club like Valenciennes over, say, Ipswich should always be a no-brainer in the former's favour for an Irish player? I think it strange that you seem to consider choosing a club like Valenciennes a no-brainer.

Is that it? No, that's not it. I am sure Stephen Carr regrets not moving to the continent when he was linked with Barcelona instead of having his career peter out at Newcastle. Damien Duff, likewise.

I'm looking for offers. Not vague links. Sure you could stick Gary Breen to your list too if you want to move the goalposts. 'Mind that time he was linked with Barca?... :rofl:

nigel-harps1954

14/05/2015, 1:41 AM

Who would be the best/highest profile foreign player in that league who is under the age of 30?

Sebastian Giovinco is probably the only one. And he has effectively ended his Intl. career with Italy, to put that into perspective.

In all fairness, the standard of league and player is constantly rising over there.

Shaun Maloney is with Chicago Fire
Emmanuel Pogatez with Columbus Crew
Nigel Reo-Coker at Montreal Impact
David Villa at NYC FC
Frank Lampard to join NYC FC
SSL at Orlando
Kaka at Orlando
Benoit Cheyrou at Toronto
Stephen Caldwell at Toronto
Jozy Altidore at Toronto
Kevin Doyle at Colorado
DaMarcus Beasley at Houston
Robbie Keane at Galaxy
Liam Ridgewell at Portland
Clint Dempsey at Seattle
Obafemi Martins at Seattle
Robert Earnshaw at Vancouver

While not all under the age of 30, they're all fairly high profile in their own right. You'd never have made a list that size around 5 or 10 years ago playing in the US.

tricky_colour

14/05/2015, 3:30 AM

Well I guess he avoids the poppy question.

Or does he?

GypsyBlackCat

14/05/2015, 7:35 AM

People were calling a transfer to Celtic a dream move. Celtic are a massive club but the standard of the SPL is terrible. The MLS is a better and more competitive league and he's moving to one of the top sides. Plus with the way the game is growing over there it could become a top league one day.

DeLorean

14/05/2015, 8:54 AM

Roy Keane spoke of his regret turning down a move to Real Madrid to play for the mighty Celtic. He also spoke of his regret not moving to Juventus and Bayern Munich earlier in his career.

So after all the judgemental ranting and raving you manage to produce one concrete example, concerning our only undeniably world class player of the last twenty years.

You keep sighting O'Dea as an example. Are you forgetting that O'Dea played for Toronto before heading to Ukraine. Maybe McClean's motives are fully ambition based, in the sense that a season or two in the MLS might actually give him more exposure than the depths of League One, which is where he is currently at, let's not forget.

As for this David Forde thing, the second tier of German football is just called 2.Bundesliga or the 2nd Bundesliga, so there's no obvious distinction like the Premier League and the Championship. Even if Forde actually said he got an offer from the Bundesliga (which he didn't) then I don't think it could necessarily be assumed he meant the top flight. As it is, he only said he got an offer from Germany anyway. I'm not assuming one way or the other by the way, but it's ridiculous to conclude that this offer was a step up. We just don't know.

TheOneWhoKnocks

14/05/2015, 11:44 PM

Why do you call it a "tangent"? Forde is central to your narrative that Ireland players are consistently declining offers from continental sides out of fear and lack of ambition. Show me a quote where Forde stated he had an offer from a Bundesliga team. He said it was from a German team. Some headline writer might have made an assumption for all we know when (possibly mis)informing the public there was an offer from a Bundesliga side. I don't profess to know the nature of the offer at all; I'm simply emphasising the point that we are in no position to judge the offer because we have no idea as to its actual nature, besides Forde's exceptionally vague description.

Valenciennes are a Ligue 2 team presently. They might have been in Ligue 1 when they were interested in Hunt - I'm not sure - but they more-often-than-not feature as lower-half fodder when in Ligue 1, don't they? Which I simultaneously acknowledged in my description of them. Last time they finished above tenth in Ligue 1? They're certainly not a Ligue 1 powerhouse with pedigree anyway (certainly not recently), which is my general point. Ipswich, meanwhile, have recently been a club challenging for a place in the superior English Premier League. Do you think choosing a club like Valenciennes over, say, Ipswich should always be a no-brainer in the former's favour for an Irish player? I think it strange that you seem to consider choosing a club like Valenciennes a no-brainer.

I'm looking for offers. Not vague links. Sure you could stick Gary Breen to your list too if you want to move the goalposts. 'Mind that time he was linked with Barca?... :rofl:

I would call being offered a better, longer-term deal at a French first division team and having the chance to play against Monaco, Marseille, Saint Etienne & Paris Saint-Germain more attractive than signing a short-term deal at Ipswich Town. Stephen inferred as much himself.

I'm sure David doesn't have any regrets about staying at relegation fodder Millwall and getting relegated, rather than testing himself in a new country, learning a new language, adapting to a new culture and playing in a first division, which I maintain is where the offer came from. No regrets about the way he has lost his place in the national team.

Did I mention Gary Breen? :yawn:

And I am the purveyor of the straw man argument..

TheOneWhoKnocks

14/05/2015, 11:50 PM

So after all the judgemental ranting and raving you manage to produce one concrete example, concerning our only undeniably world class player of the last twenty years.

You keep sighting O'Dea as an example. Are you forgetting that O'Dea played for Toronto before heading to Ukraine. Maybe McClean's motives are fully ambition based, in the sense that a season or two in the MLS might actually give him more exposure than the depths of League One, which is where he is currently at, let's not forget.

As for this David Forde thing, the second tier of German football is just called 2.Bundesliga or the 2nd Bundesliga, so there's no obvious distinction like the Premier League and the Championship. Even if Forde actually said he got an offer from the Bundesliga (which he didn't) then I don't think it could necessarily be assumed he meant the top flight. As it is, he only said he got an offer from Germany anyway. I'm not assuming one way or the other by the way, but it's ridiculous to conclude that this offer was a step up. We just don't know.

You have your head in the sand if you think foreign teams have an embargo on signing Irish players. I know for a fact, without mentioning any names, there are several Irish football players, who when they were younger, didn't entertain moves to foreign clubs because they wouldn't be able to go on the lash with their mates several times a week. It is a cultural thing. Our footballers don't know anything other than the PL and don't want to entertain the thought of playing abroad.

Yes. You're right. I'm ranting and raving. I should place more stock in the oracles than Forde himself, or journalists he speaks to on a regular basis as one of Millwall's senior players with media duties.

TheOneWhoKnocks

14/05/2015, 11:57 PM

Nige.....

Out of those players, Lampard, Villa (at a push), Keane (at a push), Dempsey (at a push), Maloney (at a push) and Kaka are the only players that can perform at a decent level and all are in their mid-thirties. No big European club would take Kaka on because of his injury problems and loss of form; his wages and ego too extravagant for smaller teams.

St Ledger couldn't earn a contract in the Championship. Martins is almost a decade past his best. Cheyrou never lived up to his new Zidane billing, which was over a decade ago. Ridgewell and Reo-Coker were very mediocre players in the PL. Pogatetz flopped in Germany after leaving England several years ago. Steve Caldwell is a very limited defender. We all have had doubts about Doyle over the last three years, I have been comparatively soft on him.

McClean is in his mid-twenties, he is a full international.

He shouldn't look to the likes of Gerrard as an example of why he should move to the MLS.

Some of Gerrard's recent comments about leaving Liverpool for the MLS have been extremely patronising.

DannyInvincible

15/05/2015, 2:57 AM

I would call being offered a better, longer-term deal at a French first division team and having the chance to play against Monaco, Marseille, Saint Etienne & Paris Saint-Germain more attractive than signing a short-term deal at Ipswich Town. Stephen inferred as much himself.

I'm sure David doesn't have any regrets about staying at relegation fodder Millwall and getting relegated, rather than testing himself in a new country, learning a new language, adapting to a new culture and playing in a first division, which I maintain is where the offer came from. No regrets about the way he has lost his place in the national team.

I'm obviously not saying they don't/mightn't have regrets. Why are you sarcastically trying to imply that's what I said? Maybe they do have regrets in hindsight (although your paragraph on Forde is complete speculation and we have no idea how he might be feeling, especially as we have no idea where the offer came from besides Germany), but hindsight provides great illumination. If it was such a no-brainer for Hunt, why didn't he go for it? Why did he require the benefit of hindsight, wisdom and experience to feel later regret if the decision should have been such an obvious one when he was first presented with it?

And why are you still (http://foot.ie/threads/117811-David-Forde?p=1773162&viewfull=1#post1773162) maintaining Forde's offer came from the top division? It's possible, sure, but you simply cannot be certain based on the evidence available, so you just look like a stubborn, delusional fool. (Any luck with that quote?)

Did I mention Gary Breen? :yawn:

And I am the purveyor of the straw man argument..

If you're insinuating there that I have raised a strawman argument, I don't think you actually understand what a strawman is. Let me explain why I raised Gary Breen... You mentioned Stephen Carr because he was linked by the media to Barcelona (I'll assume you're correct in that at least), despite the fact we've been discussing Irish players who have received and rejected offers from the continent. Did Carr receive or reject an offer from Barcelona? No. Ergo, he's completely irrelevant to the discussion. Which is why I jokingly suggested we might as well consider Gary Breen (who was also amusingly linked to Barca at one time) for inclusion in this new and irrelevant discussion too; to expose your moving of the goalposts from where you were attempting in vain to compile a concrete list of players who've rejected offers from the continent (seeing as you were getting so wound up about all the continental offers our players have supposedly been declining) to presenting the names of some players who've been vaguely or merely linked by the media to clubs on the continent, because you were so obviously struggling to come up with players who satisfied the original parameters. Having to explain really basic rules of logic to you is just mad and so very, very tedious.

You have your head in the sand if you think foreign teams have an embargo on signing Irish players. I know for a fact, without mentioning any names, there are several Irish football players, who when they were younger, didn't entertain moves to foreign clubs because they wouldn't be able to go on the lash with their mates several times a week.

How many players are you referring to? Are they still playing now and at what level are they at, or at what level did they eventually peak? Who were the continental clubs who offered them contracts?

tetsujin1979

15/05/2015, 9:46 AM

so....is he signing or what?

DannyInvincible

15/05/2015, 10:46 AM

According to Wigan Today (yesterday), he is actually "holidaying" in the US and "enjoying some down-time": http://www.wigantoday.net/sport/wigan-athletic/mcclean-exit-talk-rumbles-on-1-7259641

McClean is currently holidaying in the USA, fuelling rumours of interest from MLS outfits New York Red Bulls and Orlando City.

He�s enjoying some well-earned down-time after doing everything on a personal level to keep Latics in the Championship.

The deadline for signing new players was the 12th of May (http://www.onceametro.com/2015/5/11/8587301/report-wigan-athletic-winger-james-mcclean-in-new-york). Another window will open on the 8th of July, but nothing's been confirmed.

The photo below is from a video he had on his Facebook that was picked up by Joe.ie: http://www.sportsjoe.ie/football/video-james-mcclean-gives-a-strong-indication-hes-about-to-move-to-new-york/24382

http://m1.sportsjoe.ie/YToyOntzOjQ6ImRhdGEiO3M6MTY1OiJhOjM6e3M6MzoidXJsIj tzOjEwMzoiaHR0cDovL21lZGlhLXNwb3J0c2pvZS5tYXhpbXVt bWVkaWEuaWUuczMuYW1hem9uYXdzLmNvbS93cC1jb250ZW50L3 VwbG9hZHMvMjAxNS8wNS8xMjIwMjEzNi9NY0NsZWFuLmpwZyI7 czo1OiJ3aWR0aCI7aTo2NDc7czo2OiJoZWlnaHQiO2k6MzQwO3 0iO3M6NDoiaGFzaCI7czo0MDoiNGQ5ZDE0YjZhMGQxOWEyOWI2 ZjBiYTljMjliMDlmOGEzZGYyM2MzZSI7fQ==/mcclean.jpg

He seems to be wearing NY Red Bulls gear in it. The video was taken at the Fighting Fit gym in Derry though, so all a bit puzzling.

Supreme feet

15/05/2015, 11:08 AM

I'd personally like to see more Irish players ply their trade further afield. For example, someone like Greg Cunningham - who has looked technically sound and well-adjusted to international football - would be better off abroad than rotting away in League One. Same would apply to Conor Henderson, Owen Garvan, Conor Clifford, Darren Potter and others. At underage level, they all looked to have the tools to go quite far in the game, and staying in the English system has been terribly limiting for them. The likes of Cascarino and Dominic Foley did well out of moving abroad, and it should be an option for some players whose abilities have been stifled, or found opportunities limited, in England.

However, spending a season at, say, Utrecht, Augsburg or Sochaux would not turn James McClean into Gareth Bale. He's probably reached his ceiling of ability, regardless of where he goes. And it's naive to think that 'becoming a more technically rounded player so I can be more well-adjusted to international football' is a major consideration for Irish footballers when they're planning a career move. Family, money and support network are always going to be much bigger factors.

TheOneWhoKnocks

15/05/2015, 1:12 PM

DannyInvincible

15/05/2015, 3:02 PM

Straw man argument - "informal fallacy based on false representation of an opponent's argument". If you are going to constantly denigrate someone and devalue their argument by bringing those three words up, then don't get so precious when it's flipped against you.

But you've not demonstrated how I have been guilty of committing the fallacy, so, of course, I will strongly object. I, on the other hand, outlined very clearly why I thought you were erecting a strawman argument in the Grealish thread when you accused some imagined group of straw people of having first said Roy Keane's comment about waiting for Kevin Grealish was jocular before later contradicting themselves by using the comment as a stick with which to beat Keane over the fact that Grealish has declined a call-up just so you could lord it over them. The only person seriously criticising Keane for that comment is the poorly-informed Dunphy, who is a stirring attention seeker with a chip on his shoulder. I haven't seen anyone else do what you accuse your straw people of. But feel free to show me them...

The Brazilians, for example, have a stronger family culture than the Irish do and there are thousands of them plying their trade all over Europe. Maybe Irish players are just too indulged by English football?

There are interviews with Richie Towell doing the rounds in the media and the lad's goal seems to begin and end with moving "across the water" to England. Is there any other possibility?

There is an ingrained cultural infatuation with the English Premier League in Ireland, definitely. That's unfortunate. The Sky machine is very effective at promoting its product; if you're convinced you're watching the "best league in the world", why would you even bother looking beyond it? We are neighbours with a serious history of inter-migration, we were formerly under British dominion and the lingual/cultural barriers aren't as pronounced, so it's easy to see and experience England or Scotland as less alien than continental Europe.

However, in acknowledging that, it is unfair to attack and single out players for having turned down offers which either don't exist or of which you don't know the nature. There have to be offers on the table first before you can consider them. You'd think players weren't taking their own careers seriously, the way you present the situation. They have a lot more to worry about than simply entertaining the likes of you and I; they have short careers and have to weigh up risks and benefits just like any other worker with or without a family.

I may have been jumping the gun about McClean, anyway. Hopefully, he will stay in the United Kingdom and get a move to a top 6 Championship team or a bottom 6 Premier League team.

No need to panic just yet.

Fair enough. There was absolutely no justification for dragging McClean (who at least seems to have been seriously considering something a bit different from the norm) into the Irish-players-rejecting-continental-offers debate.

DeLorean

15/05/2015, 3:11 PM

You have your head in the sand if you think foreign teams have an embargo on signing Irish players.

Ha? Please explain how you think I might believe this is the case, as it is typical of the tripe you respond with. Clearly they don't, I know this because Cascarino, Aldridge, Brady, Connolly, McGeady and Sheridan have all played on the continent, to name a few.

I know for a fact, without mentioning any names, there are several Irish football players, who when they were younger, didn't entertain moves to foreign clubs because they wouldn't be able to go on the lash with their mates several times a week.

Excellent, facts are what I'm after. Why do you feel the need to keep these facts a secret? There are no penalties for providing information that you can back up.

It is a cultural thing. Our footballers don't know anything other than the PL and don't want to entertain the thought of playing abroad.

I'm not even disagreeing with you on this point. British and Irish players are generally very slow to move 'abroad' , I don't think many would dispute this. What I was hoping for was some examples from you, so I could the weigh up whether I actually thought the potential move to the continent might have been a step up or a step down for the players concerned. You gave the example of Roy Keane which is fair enough, even if he was in an exceptionally better position in terms of options than your average Irish player. Stephen Hunt has been discussed as well. Is that it in terms of factual cases where we actually know the player involved and the potential club? No need to answer if there are no facts to share, or if it just doesn't suit you to reply. I know the drill.

nigel-harps1954

17/05/2015, 7:57 PM

Stuttgart88

17/05/2015, 9:01 PM

Cue my second time saying this: get some rich fecker to pay off the FAI's debts (modest in the overall scheme of things) and then get the FAI to pay same amount currently spent on debt service towards the LOI. Salaries, stadium grants, prize money and marketing. Major step forward.

DeLorean: add John Byrne, Frank Stapleton, Liam Buckley, Alan Campbell, Liam Miller, Andy Keogh, Eamon Zayed and plenty of others. Not to mention the MLS contingent.

It's funny how Keogh, St. Ledger etc get ridiculed for going far abroad to play football as if it's some kind of mark of failure yet it's what we seem to think younger players should aspire to.

I know many many Irish builders, musicians, bankers, accountants, IT geeks and lawyers who work in the UK. I hardly know any who work in France, Japan, Germany or Italy etc. Of my university contemporaries who emigrated all but one that I know went to work in an English speaking country. Why should our footballers be different?

How many of the foot.ie posters work abroad? Lots. How many work in non-English speaking countries? Decky worked in Belgium. Anyone else? Spudulika, osarusan...

Football is also a job, a way to pay bills, to buy a house. It's worse than many walks of life. Commit yourself to pure footballing ideals and by the time you're 30 you might have a better first touch if you play in Croatia, but you've less capital and visibility than if you'd taken the conventional option. Your skills are redundant in your mid thirties. You can even get a nice Slavic chick if you play for Lincoln or Sligo, so no need to go to Dubrovnik anyway :)

Charlie Darwin

17/05/2015, 11:03 PM

I'd personally prefer if the FAI stepped in and had a look at Irish players constantly failing in England despite their promise and done something to strengthen football here financially so that we could have more success in bringing back players of the likes of Garvan, Clifford, Cunningham similar to Richie Towell and Mikey Drennan who are now thriving in the League of Ireland and preparing for European football this summer.
Ah well, Cunnigham took a step back with Bristol but, realistically, him and Williams are at a good Championship level side and that's beyond what the LOI can offer. Hard to see what coming back to Ireland could have offered him. Its guys like Hoban who's gone from playing in a terrific Dundalk side to a route one League Two side we need to look at. This is a guy who caused real problems to Hajduk Split, now he's winning headers against Fleetwood and it doesn't suit him. That'll only come through our teams doing better in Europe and proper teams saying our players can adapt to a proper level of footbal, like Jay O'Shea or Fahey back when.

tetsujin1979

18/05/2015, 9:07 AM

Wigan looking for �2.5million for him, not sure they're in an ideal position to demand that kind of cash

Charlie Darwin

25/05/2015, 2:03 PM

Has interest from a Premier League club and some Championship clubs, but fears moving to MLS could harm international chances: http://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/james-mcclean-eyeing-premier-league-5759757

Charlie Darwin

16/06/2015, 4:01 PM

About to sign for West Brom, �1.5m deal. Considering some of the places rumoured, that's a great move for him.

Ol� Ol�

16/06/2015, 4:05 PM

jbyrne

16/06/2015, 4:21 PM

Fantastic move for him. Hope it goes through. Without meaning offence to either of them, I think McClean is a really Tony Pulis player.

EDIT: Only saw this article from the other day. Roughly sums up how I feel about McClean. I didn't like Naismith's behaviour on the pitch Saturday. McClean let him know how he felt about it too and the crowd enjoyed it.
http://www.sportsjoe.ie/football/james-mcclean-is-that-player-every-supporter-promises-they-would-be-given-the-chance/28447

"Right now, there seems to be some form of disconnect between the nation and the team"

why is this when the team always give their all? personally I agree that its there but it's crazy that it is. surely a team that scores so many late winners / levellers deserves better due to their never give up attitude?

Stuttgart88

16/06/2015, 4:49 PM

Fantastic move for him. Hope it goes through. Without meaning offence to either of them, I think McClean is a really Tony Pulis player.

EDIT: Only saw this article from the other day. Roughly sums up how I feel about McClean. I didn't like Naismith's behaviour on the pitch Saturday. McClean let him know how he felt about it too and the crowd enjoyed it.
http://www.sportsjoe.ie/football/james-mcclean-is-that-player-every-supporter-promises-they-would-be-given-the-chance/28447Isn't Naismith the Scottish equivalent though, albeit with a bit more skill? I like Naismith. Very grounded and generous off the pitch. Touch of class on it. Snarly attitude but MON went a bit OTT I think on Saturday. We could do with a player just like him, a leader. He didn't react to McClean's "headbutt" either. It wasn't really a headbutt but they touched heads and I have seen plenty of Latins or Eastern Europeans make a meal of that type of incident and James could easily have walked.

Also, Naismith nearly scored, only his goal bound volley hit and floored a teammate. It was going in.

Stuttgart88

16/06/2015, 4:51 PM

"Right now, there seems to be some form of disconnect between the nation and the team"

why is this when the team always give their all? personally I agree that its there but it's crazy that it is. surely a team that scores so many late winners / levellers deserves better due to their never give up attitude?

As you said earlier, the Irish public are a bunch of success-junkies. I've posted before on BIRGing and CORFing, so won't bore you again (see link below if you're interested), but it's a proven sociological factor in sport fan behaviour. It's abundantly evident in Irish sports fans in my opinion.

http://www.units.miamioh.edu/psybersite/fans/bc.shtml

DannyInvincible

16/06/2015, 6:44 PM

Isn't Naismith the Scottish equivalent though, albeit with a bit more skill? I like Naismith. Very grounded and generous off the pitch. Touch of class on it. Snarly attitude but MON went a bit OTT I think on Saturday. We could do with a player just like him, a leader. He didn't react to McClean's "headbutt" either. It wasn't really a headbutt but they touched heads and I have seen plenty of Latins or Eastern Europeans make a meal of that type of incident and James could easily have walked.

Also, Naismith nearly scored, only his goal bound volley hit and floored a teammate. It was going in.

I thought Naismith was going to go down when James leaned his head forward but he probably realised there hadn't been anywhere near enough force to make a tumble look remotely convincing. He'd only have looked a fool. Naismith is a complete nark to have on the opposing team but there is something about him that I like; he cares and it shows. James is similar in that sense, as you say.

Great move for James though. Back in the Premier League where he belongs and at a very decent mid-table club. Hope it works out for him.

geysir

16/06/2015, 8:37 PM

Fantastic move for him. Hope it goes through. Without meaning offence to either of them, I think McClean is a really Tony Pulis player.

EDIT: Only saw this article from the other day. Roughly sums up how I feel about McClean. I didn't like Naismith's behaviour on the pitch Saturday. McClean let him know how he felt about it too and the crowd enjoyed it.
http://www.sportsjoe.ie/football/james-mcclean-is-that-player-every-supporter-promises-they-would-be-given-the-chance/28447
Think of a player who leaves his foot in to hit a goalie with force on the head in order to simulate a dive, claim and then get a penalty with red card dished out. Flann O'Brien couldn't script it better.
That's Naismith and he's still gathering ignomy with relish, Robben x 5, (without the talent).

McClean transfer fee agreed @ 6.45pm. He's a Pulis type player, should do well, great move for him and well deserved.

Ol� Ol�

16/06/2015, 10:07 PM

TheOneWhoKnocks

19/06/2015, 5:03 PM

Is this move actually going to happen? No comment from West Brom, which is better than ruling it out I suppose. It would be a great move if it was to happen.

TheOneWhoKnocks

20/06/2015, 9:26 PM

McClean deal expected to go through on Monday after cooler heads prevailed; opted against MLS move.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/33210322

I would be happy if Brady joins him. Quinn, McShane or Hendrick would be a bonus.

Arter, Hoban, Hoolahan, Brady & McClean in and Dunne, Ward, Quinn, McShane and Meyler out.

Balances out.

If O'Kane or Murray get any Premier League football that would just be another bonus.

tricky_colour

21/06/2015, 2:06 AM

Isn't Naismith the Scottish equivalent though, albeit with a bit more skill? I like Naismith. Very grounded and generous off the pitch. Touch of class on it. Snarly attitude but MON went a bit OTT I think on Saturday. We could do with a player just like him, a leader. He didn't react to McClean's "headbutt" either. It wasn't really a headbutt but they touched heads and I have seen plenty of Latins or Eastern Europeans make a meal of that type of incident and James could easily have walked.

Also, Naismith nearly scored, only his goal bound volley hit and floored a teammate. It was going in.

Yea I actually quite like Naismith as a player, I always remember one incident where he was laughing at a player who got sent off, it was kind of funny, it was the sort of thing a 9 year old would do,
maybe he deserved it, but it was a sort of childish enthusiasm.

However he is also pretty sporting, congratulating the opposition keeper on a good save, which is more than de Gea's Man U team mates did, he seems to play with a good competitive spirit.

He also does more than most for charity, seem a good character, note he also goes to look after his injured team mate too.

I would have rathered out of all the Scottish player that he was not playing against us.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9dmQF_j2z0

tricky_colour

21/06/2015, 2:56 AM

Don't know if he intended this but it is quite funny!!

I'd say he did intend it but didn't expect it to work!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euwZ3Uzy3FI

This is what I was thinking off earlier ( you might have to watch on youtube if it freezes).

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/11/27/2367F74800000578-2852292-image-23_1417120459113.jpg

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2852292/West-Ham-boss-Sam-Allardyce-slams-James-Tomkins-playacting-antics-calls-defender-maturity.html

I am not too sure exactly what happen but Tomkins tried to get player sent off

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/11/27/2367F93400000578-2852292-image-21_1417120450796.jpg

seanfhear

21/06/2015, 6:24 AM

It says a lot about the Irish team at the moment when we are discussing the merits of a competitive, irritating in a good way if he is in our team type of player.

The Scots have always produced this type of Player. Maybe not so obvious these days with cameras everywhere to keep an eye on them.

DeLorean

21/06/2015, 10:27 AM

Osman is even funnier than Naismith in that picture.

Charlie Darwin

22/06/2015, 1:45 AM

Is this move actually going to happen? No comment from West Brom, which is better than ruling it out I suppose. It would be a great move if it was to happen.

McClean deal expected to go through on Monday after cooler heads prevailed; opted against MLS move.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/33210322

I would be happy if Brady joins him. Quinn, McShane or Hendrick would be a bonus.

Arter, Hoban, Hoolahan, Brady & McClean in and Dunne, Ward, Quinn, McShane and Meyler out.

Balances out.

If O'Kane or Murray get any Premier League football that would just be another bonus.
Fair play TOWK, you pushed that one through in four hours :D

tetsujin1979

22/06/2015, 7:27 AM

Was at Seamus Coleman's wedding over the weekend according to the indo, so the move should go through this week

Stuttgart88

22/06/2015, 7:14 PM

McClean to WBA confirmed according to SSN. Great stuff.

Ol� Ol�

22/06/2015, 7:22 PM

http://www.the42.ie/mcclean-joins-west-brom-2176349-Jun2015/

Positive words in the most part, although Pulis refers to his years at Wigan as "indifferent."

Great move. I'm delighted for him.

DeLorean

22/06/2015, 8:01 PM

Why or where is all this talk coming from about McClean getting a move to the premiership? I don't see it myself.

McClean to WBA confirmed according to SSN. Great stuff.

I'm confused... :p

Fixer82

23/06/2015, 8:46 AM

I'd imagine there's a large pro armed-forces element that are against McClean's signing

tricky_colour

23/06/2015, 10:42 PM

Great move, hope it works out well for him.

Back on the telly!!! :encouragement:

DannyInvincible

28/06/2015, 1:54 PM

I'd imagine there's a large pro armed-forces element that are against McClean's signing

If there was (I saw a few tweets but I don't think anything widespread, thankfully), the predictable Belfast Telegraph were certainly more than happy to indulge it (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/wba-fans-split-over-signing-james-mcclean-after-poppy-stance-31313187.html). Wrote a bit on it here: https://danieldcollins.wordpress.com/2015/06/28/high-time-media-moved-on-from-indulging-pseudo-controversy-surrounding-james-mcclean-and-poppy-issue/

Crosby87

28/06/2015, 2:12 PM

They dont seem to be too enthusiastic about him on the wba board.

http://westbrom.com/forum/index.php?topic=16535.0

DannyInvincible

28/06/2015, 2:15 PM

They dont seem to be too enthusiastic about him on the wba board.

http://westbrom.com/forum/index.php?topic=16535.0

If he starts sticking certain badges on his West Brom kit, as he did at Wigan, I for one will go off my nut.

Eh? Wasn't it that he kept certain badges off his kit at Wigan? What badges did he have on his kit? :confused:

TheOneWhoKnocks

28/06/2015, 2:26 PM

They dont seem to be too enthusiastic about him on the wba board.

http://westbrom.com/forum/index.php?topic=16535.0

There is a vocal "minority" of fans on the West Brom, Wigan, Burnley & Sunderland boards who don't want anything to do with him due to his stance on the poppy issue. The letter hasn't done anything to change their minds. The specific reasons James outlined for not wanting to wear the poppy have gone completely over their heads. And as to be expected there are a number of jibes relating to his nationality and religion thrown in. A member of the West Brom boards referred to West Brom being a "Protestant" club and an affinity to Rangers. You really can't make it up.

The most eloquent fans on the boards seem to be the ones who defend his talent and freedom of choice. Take from that what you will.