James McClean M Wrexham b.1989

[liamoo11]

A couple of issues with what you say. Ok so you feel the British think the lives of their soldiers were more important than.........who exactly? Would you be talking perhaps about the lives of your mother and father and my mother and father who were allowed to have children (you and I) due to the bravery of those soldiers (British, French, Dutch, Norwegian etc etc and of course Irish soldiers) who defended our countries during the World Wars? I don't think the British public feel anyone's life is more important than another's, but they are just thankful to be living in a free society instead of the alternative. So before you criticize that ceremony (which was observed with impeccable silence at Cardiff City this morning to include Shane Duffy and Greg Cunningham) I would remember that humankind was saved and you and I have benefitted to the point that we live in a time when the toughest thing we do all day is exercise our fingers on a screen, while those lads back 75 years ago were up to their eyes in flying mortar shells, starvation and fear of torture).

On the subject of the football field not being the place to promote political causes. I would agree with you on that. However when the whole country has done this for three-quarters of a century and you or me (foreigners) are trying to tell them (in their own country) that they cannot observe the ceremony any longer - well that's a bit of a non starter I would say.

And regarding remembrance ceremonies across the world (they are done in America and Australia and France, and I'm sure many other countries) I am all for them in general. Why? Because we live in a time when many out there are trying to rewrite our history and tell us that things we know to be true never happened at all (case in point - not so long ago I was told on a message board that there was no such thing as Irish slavery).

how in the name of history do you think British soldiers defended Ireland in World War 1? Do you somehow imagine World War 1 had something to do with them central European types wanting to conquer ireland( or for that matter England)? If World War 1 had gone the other way and the brits and friends were defeated it would have been a far better outcome for Ireland and likely allowed us to regain our independence across the 32 counties given the weakened state the brits would have been in.

Might also be good to remember that the British state s inhumane treaty terms was the catalyst for World War 2 an example of jingoism at its best .that Irish slavery you mention was perpetrated over all those centuries and up to very recenltly solely by the brits so contributing to their funds to honour there war criminals is not on my agenda. world war 1 was a war between imperialistic states and their allies the outcome made no difference to humankind apart from the millions who died for nothing other than the imperialistic pride of their lesders.

The idea that the British forces at any time have had a positive influence in Ireland is laughable and the British plans to invade Ireland during world War Two should clearly show that at no time have British forces ever respected Irish sovereignty.

[Closed Account]

What I've gathered from this thread is that some people here would wear the poppy, some people wouldn't. Some people think that other people should wear the poppy and some people don't.
That's fine.

There is neither a law or moralistic reason that anyone in the UK, (British, Irish, English, Welsh, Scottish or other) suggests anyone should wear the poppy.

The only question I see, is, what is an acceptable response if you disagree with someone not wearing a poppy?

Abuse? No, not acceptable.

In my opinion ,what the poppy represents, is freedom. Freedom of choice.

If there's anyone who thinks the abuse James McClean gets for his freedom of choice not to wear a poppy, is deserved, truly don't understand what people were fighting for.

http://simondarcyonline.com/mcclean/

https://www.britishlegion.org.uk/remembrance/what-we-remember/recent-conflicts/#ireland

https://i.imgur.com/j3ue01L.jpg

[IsMiseSean]

Caught a glimpse of the Celtic game today and noticed there wasn't a poppy on their shirts.

I'm curious to the reaction of the Celtic's hardcore anti-imperialist fans if one of the Celtic players wanted to wear a poppy on their shirt today?

[Paddy Garcia]

Caught a glimpse of the Celtic game today and noticed there wasn't a poppy on their shirts.

I'm curious to the reaction of the Celtic's hardcore anti-imperialist fans if one of the Celtic players wanted to wear a poppy on their shirt today?

Why is that?

[Olé Olé]

Caught a glimpse of the Celtic game today and noticed there wasn't a poppy on their shirts.

I'm curious to the reaction of the Celtic's hardcore anti-imperialist fans if one of the Celtic players wanted to wear a poppy on their shirt today?

"Anti-imperialist"? I wonder who is pro-imperialist?

[tetsujin1979]

Celtic have had the poppy on their jerseys before as a mark of respect for their former players who died in world war one

[liamoo11]

"Anti-imperialist"? I wonder who is pro-imperialist?

I'd say every fat bald ex squadie they roll out this time of year to say how they have brought freedom to the world in the British forces are pro imperialist

[IsMiseSean]

Why is that?

It seems there is a lot of Celtic fans defending McClean's stance and I wonder would they be as understanding if it was the other way round?
I noticed John Bruton wearing some sort of shamrock poppy on RTE today and seen a few people on twitter criticising him for doing so.



Celtic have had the poppy on their jerseys before as a mark of respect for their former players who died in world war one

Yeah I remember them having one on their shirt before. I also remember a massive banner dismissing it.
Since my first post - I noticed Brendan Rodgers was wearing one at today's game.

[mark12345]

how in the name of history do you think British soldiers defended Ireland in World War 1? Do you somehow imagine World War 1 had something to do with them central European types wanting to conquer ireland( or for that matter England)? If World War 1 had gone the other way and the brits and friends were defeated it would have been a far better outcome for Ireland and likely allowed us to regain our independence across the 32 counties given the weakened state the brits would have been in.

Might also be good to remember that the British state s inhumane treaty terms was the catalyst for World War 2 an example of jingoism at its best .that Irish slavery you mention was perpetrated over all those centuries and up to very recenltly solely by the brits so contributing to their funds to honour there war criminals is not on my agenda. world war 1 was a war between imperialistic states and their allies the outcome made no difference to humankind apart from the millions who died for nothing other than the imperialistic pride of their lesders.

The idea that the British forces at any time have had a positive influence in Ireland is laughable and the British plans to invade Ireland during world War Two should clearly show that at no time have British forces ever respected Irish sovereignty.

Tets is going to reign us all in very quickly for turning this into a history debate rather than a football one - but I'm as guilty as anyone.
I should have made the distinction clearer between the World Wars - WWI as you correctly point out was between imperialsitc states and it began after the Archduke Franz Ferdinand incident. However, intelligent as your opening salvos are, you just cannot be serious when you say: "the idea that the British forces at any time have had a positive influence in Ireland is laughable."

Laughable is the correct word for that statement. Leaving the Troubles aside, we never would have been there to experience those awful times in the late 60's and early 70's had it not been for the British. They joined the Americans to fight and defeat the Germans when the rest of Europe, with a few exceptions, was lying down. You have never heard your parents say that we would have all been in concentration camps had the Nazis won the war? You mention that the British had plans to invade Ireland? I have never heard that, but I am willing to research it. Could it perhaps have been because we were refuelling German U-boats on the west coast of Ireland during WWII? Maybe, maybe not, but what you say is interesting nonetheless.

And lastly, Irish slavery was perpetrated by the British (the Vikings were the ealier slave traders). I don't dispute that for one second. All I was saying is that some people out there (not related to this site) are trying to rewrite history (and their numbers are growing), saying that there was no such thing as Irish slavery. If anybody ever debates the existence of Irish slavery with you Liamo, remind them that the natives of the island of Montserrat (in the Carribean) were but a few hundred. However in the late 1700's and early 1800's the population on the island was estimated to be 100,000. Where did all the people (slaves) come from? Answer 60 per cent from Africa, and 40 per cent from Ireland. The common denominator - the British.

[tetsujin1979]

I'll allow it, for now. But try to reach a conclusion

[Fixer82]

The poppy money raised is paid to the Royal British Legion, is to commemorate all fallen British soldiers who died in all wars and is increasingly used as a propaganda tool in an increasingly militarised world.
Why should a footballer have to engage in this rubbish?

I wish the UK would get the poppy back to what it was originally intended for: A private show of respect one day a year for WW1 instead of a jingoistic parade that lasts a whole month and is forced upon the lapel of everyone that appears on UK tv.

Placing the poppy on football jerseys is crass. As is rolling out the military at every premiership game, X Factor finals, Britain’s Got talent, Saturday night take-away etc.
Reminds me of 1930s Germany.

[Fixer82]

Tets is going to reign us all in very quickly for turning this into a history debate rather than a football one - but I'm as guilty as anyone.
I should have made the distinction clearer between the World Wars - WWI as you correctly point out was between imperialsitc states and it began after the Archduke Franz Ferdinand incident. However, intelligent as your opening salvos are, you just cannot be serious when you say: "the idea that the British forces at any time have had a positive influence in Ireland is laughable."

Laughable is the correct word for that statement. Leaving the Troubles aside, we never would have been there to experience those awful times in the late 60's and early 70's had it not been for the British. They joined the Americans to fight and defeat the Germans when the rest of Europe, with a few exceptions, was lying down. You have never heard your parents say that we would have all been in concentration camps had the Nazis won the war? You mention that the British had plans to invade Ireland? I have never heard that, but I am willing to research it. Could it perhaps have been because we were refuelling German U-boats on the west coast of Ireland during WWII? Maybe, maybe not, but what you say is interesting nonetheless.

And lastly, Irish slavery was perpetrated by the British (the Vikings were the ealier slave traders). I don't dispute that for one second. All I was saying is that some people out there (not related to this site) are trying to rewrite history (and their numbers are growing), saying that there was no such thing as Irish slavery. If anybody ever debates the existence of Irish slavery with you Liamo, remind them that the natives of the island of Montserrat (in the Carribean) were but a few hundred. However in the late 1700's and early 1800's the population on the island was estimated to be 100,000. Where did all the people (slaves) come from? Answer 60 per cent from Africa, and 40 per cent from Ireland. The common denominator - the British.

I think you need to read more about Montserrat. The behaviour of the Irish in Montserrat was not exemplary and was a classic case of freed slaves attempting to become slave masters.

[NeverFeltBetter]

I was in London last week for the first time in nearly two decades, and the poppy was everywhere, and this was several days before the 11th. Every second person, every train, buses, buildings, boats all covered in them. I saw one person wearing five, and another wearing one that appeared to have some jewelry embedded.

It was all well and good when we visited the display outside Westminister Abbey, which I thought was well put-together and a suitable place to use the poppy for its intended purpose. But I couldn't help but feel the remainder was strangely off-putting. It's hard not to feel uncomfortable not wearing one when everyone around you is, like you're being silently judged.

Or, to make an on-topic comment, James McClean is well within his rights not to wear one, and to be affronted by any suggestion that he should. It's treatment by British press and culture has become fetish-like.

[Gather round]

I'll allow it, for now. But try to reach a conclusion

* JMC was criticised initially just because he didn't wear one, not due to his chippiness, support for SF or any other reason

* anyone else doing so would have been similarly slated- whether they were German, Argentine, Iraqi, Serb, Pacifist, Left-wing or whatever. So hardly anyone else has followed his lead

* the 'season' will almost certainly recur next year and will be just as bad. Potentially it may be worse, say if Brexit goes even more chaotically than expected, or if Betty Windsor dies aged 93 (in which case think of recent weeks as a dress rehearsal)

* if Varadkar, Ni Riadh etc want to join that's up to them. They won't get much credit that I can see- and also it encourages exaggerated outrage at home. To what end?

[jbyrne]

anyone else [/B]doing so would have been similarly slated- whether they were German, Argentine, Iraqi, Serb, Pacifist, Left-wing or whatever. So hardly anyone else has followed his lead


has Nemanja Matić?

[Gather round]

Yes, he has.

[Fixer82]

Yes, he has.

Must have blinked and missed that one.

[Stuttgart88]

I don’t think it’s fair to say the rest of Europe was lying down. That’s a pretty Anglo-centric view of the war, just as forgetting Russia’s critical role was.

[Stuttgart88]

I was in London last week for the first time in nearly two decades, and the poppy was everywhere, and this was several days before the 11th. Every second person, every train, buses, buildings, boats all covered in them. I saw one person wearing five, and another wearing one that appeared to have some jewelry embedded.

It was all well and good when we visited the display outside Westminister Abbey, which I thought was well put-together and a suitable place to use the poppy for its intended purpose. But I couldn't help but feel the remainder was strangely off-putting. It's hard not to feel uncomfortable not wearing one when everyone around you is, like you're being silently judged.

Or, to make an on-topic comment, James McClean is well within his rights not to wear one, and to be affronted by any suggestion that he should. It's treatment by British press and culture has become fetish-like.I live in London and on one hand you just can’t escape the poppy fervour yet on the other it’s noticeable, to me anyway, that lots and lots don’t wear one.

[Gather round]

Must have blinked and missed that one

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/7651475/nemanja-matic-refuse-poppy-abuse-manchester-united/

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/1041142/Nemanja-Matic-poppy-reason-why-Nemanja-Matic-not-wearing-poppy-instagram-Man-Utd-news

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-6354685/Man-Utds-Nemanja-Matic-reveals-not-wear-poppy-reminds-bombings-child.html

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46099843

If you're suggesting that McClean gets much worse (which I accept), I suggest it's because of his personal chippiness/ politics rather than any general anti-Irish bias.

[Fixer82]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/7651475/nemanja-matic-refuse-poppy-abuse-manchester-united/

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/1041142/Nemanja-Matic-poppy-reason-why-Nemanja-Matic-not-wearing-poppy-instagram-Man-Utd-news

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-6354685/Man-Utds-Nemanja-Matic-reveals-not-wear-poppy-reminds-bombings-child.html

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46099843

If you're suggesting that McClean gets much worse (which I accept), I suggest it's because of his personal chippiness/ politics rather than any general anti-Irish bias.

I would suggest it’s because most of the knuckle-draggers couldn’t pick Serbia out on a map.

[Gather round]

Heh. In my experience of Stoke City's k-d support (and I live in Staffordshire), they'd struggle to find Derby and Crewe on a map, let alone Derry and Creggan ;)

[mark12345]

I think you need to read more about Montserrat. The behaviour of the Irish in Montserrat was not exemplary and was a classic case of freed slaves attempting to become slave masters.

I am aware of that Fixer, just as there were some slave masters in training among the African group also. There is good and bad everywhere.
All in all there were 80 - 90K Irish slaves in the Caribbean, including the Sugar Slaves of Barbados, many of whom were transported from Cork I believe.
The Virginia Company of London were the driving force behind the slavery. Their goal was to reap the goods (cotton, tobacco) in places like Virginia and the Carribean on the backs of the Irish and the African slaves.

[Fixer82]

I am aware of that Fixer, just as there were some slave masters in training among the African group also. There is good and bad everywhere.
All in all there were 80 - 90K Irish slaves in the Caribbean, including the Sugar Slaves of Barbados, many of whom were transported from Cork I believe.
The Virginia Company of London were the driving force behind the slavery. Their goal was to reap the goods (cotton, tobacco) in places like Virginia and the Carribean on the backs of the Irish and the African slaves.

Yes, this is true.
Cromwell sent many Irish over to the West Indies/colonies.

But Montserrat was an attempt by Irish slaves to form their own colony.

Now, back to James McClean.
I support him 100%. Just so ya know ;)

[mark12345]

I don’t think it’s fair to say the rest of Europe was lying down. That’s a pretty Anglo-centric view of the war, just as forgetting Russia’s critical role was.

Russia most definitely played a critical role in WWII. The Germans were decimated on that front. But think of France whom (in the famous words of Brian Clough - there Tets I am making a football reference to keep it relevant) let the Germans come through in three days. Holland, if I recall, put up no resistence. Italy went to the other side and Spain - did they even join the Allied forces? The Norwegian resistence deserves special mention for their obstruction of Germany's bid to bulild the atomic bomb but essentially it was left to the British and Americans to defend Europe.

[The Fly]

I was in London last week for the first time in nearly two decades, and the poppy was everywhere, and this was several days before the 11th. Every second person, every train, buses, buildings, boats all covered in them. I saw one person wearing five, and another wearing one that appeared to have some jewelry embedded.

It was all well and good when we visited the display outside Westminister Abbey, which I thought was well put-together and a suitable place to use the poppy for its intended purpose. But I couldn't help but feel the remainder was strangely off-putting. It's hard not to feel uncomfortable not wearing one when everyone around you is, like you're being silently judged.


This twitter account is a must see at this time of year -

https://twitter.com/giantpoppywatch

[mark12345]

Yes, this is true.
Cromwell sent many Irish over to the West Indies/colonies.

But Montserrat was an attempt by Irish slaves to form their own colony.

Now, back to James McClean.
I support him 100%. Just so ya know ;)

If the Irish slaves tried to form their own 'colony' in Montserrat, as in use the land to support themselves behind the backs of the British colonists, then fair play to them.
And just so ya know, I support James McClean's right to make his own mind up. I think it's crazy what he's putting himself through but I support his right to have a choice.

[Stuttgart88]

This twitter account is a must see at this time of year -

https://twitter.com/giantpoppywatchI saw a middle-aged overweight skinhead type walking his bulldog in NW6 last week. The bulldog was wearing a poppy.

[bennocelt]

This twitter account is a must see at this time of year -

https://twitter.com/giantpoppywatch

Thats funny alright, one on a bin lorry, could be a pishtake but its hard to say!

I was attacked in a pub once when I was living in London. Some clown took it upon himself to walk around the pub and ask all customers to buy a poppy. I politely declined and no more. The fella had a melt down, absolute melt down, and went on a full blown anti Irish tirade. Had to be thrown out of the place, but other customers chipped in with some rubbish too. Wasn't too bothered (i am like that!), but it really wasn't because I was Irish, but I felt that with the war in Iraq it was all a bit of a joke. Was around the time of tony blair and his lying. Its just war propaganda IMHO, and fair dues to James for having the balls to stand by his principles. In fact I feel quite a lot of British people support his views.
I agree with Stuttgart88, I found a lot of ordinary people didn't wear one, but you'd never guess that if you watched the TV. In fact I often wonder how I lived in the UK for so long and this poppy rubbish passed me by a lot of the time!

[Fixer82]

This sums it up for me
https://twitter.com/kayburley/status/792050222906171394?lang=en

[The Fly]

My personal favourite ~ Nothing says remembrance like pinning a poppy on the cookie monster -

795710802280017920

[peadar1987]

Russia most definitely played a critical role in WWII. The Germans were decimated on that front. But think of France whom (in the famous words of Brian Clough - there Tets I am making a football reference to keep it relevant) let the Germans come through in three days.

It was six weeks, not three days. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_France#Battle

To put it simplistically, the French thought that the Maginot line was impregnable, and the Ardennes were impassable. The Germans passed through the Ardennes, cut off the Maginot line, and completely crippled the French ability to wage conventional war. After occupation, the near-insane heroism of the French resistance played a large part in the eventual German defeat.



Holland, if I recall, put up no resistence. Italy went to the other side and Spain - did they even join the Allied forces? The Norwegian resistence deserves special mention for their obstruction of Germany's bid to bulild the atomic bomb but essentially it was left to the British and Americans to defend Europe.

The Dutch were not expecting to be invaded, and were completely outclassed in the air. The Germans bombed Rotterdam to the ground and threatened to do the same to the rest of the Netherlands unless they capitulated.

Spain and Portugal were themselves fascist dictatorships. Perhaps the only reason Spain didn't join the Axis was the fact that it was still largely devastated from the Spanish Civil War, which only finished 5 months before Germany invaded Poland.

Yugoslavia collapsed after the German invasion, but the Partisans, with logistical and air support from the USSR and Western Allies kept fighting, and by the end of the war had largely driven the Axis forces out.

Greece resisted till the last, successfully repelling an Italian invasion before being overrun by the Germans.

There is no evidence of Ireland refuelling U-boats, and in fact we allowed Allied aircraft to overfly Ireland, using the Donegal corridor, in order to search for U-boats.

The whole "Britain stood alone, so you should be grateful" shtick, well, while their resistance was no doubt admirable, if it wasn't for an accident of geography in the form of the Channel, they would probably have been steamrollered by the Germans in just as short a time.

[tetsujin1979]

I could be wrong on this, but it wasn't it Churchill being stubborn the only reason they didn't surrender?

[peadar1987]

I could be wrong on this, but it wasn't it Churchill being stubborn the only reason they didn't surrender?

As far as I know that's just a popular misconception. Labour's official position was against appeasement from about 1937 onwards. There were certainly voices in favour of surrender, but Churchill was just a particularly strong voice among many in favour of fighting on.

[The Fly]

The Poppy isn't just about WW1 and WW2, it's explicitly stated to be for all British soldiers, in all wars.

Indeed, and that's the very reason why it's contentious for some/many. There's a marked difference between those two world changing events and the others; not least conscription.


That includes the ones who set up concentration camps in South Africa, butchered the Indians, and opened fire on peaceful protesters in Derry in 1972.

...and that great bunch of lads in Black & Tan uniform.

[mark12345]

It was six weeks, not three days. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_France#Battle

To put it simplistically, the French thought that the Maginot line was impregnable, and the Ardennes were impassable. The Germans passed through the Ardennes, cut off the Maginot line, and completely crippled the French ability to wage conventional war. After occupation, the near-insane heroism of the French resistance played a large part in the eventual German defeat.



The Dutch were not expecting to be invaded, and were completely outclassed in the air. The Germans bombed Rotterdam to the ground and threatened to do the same to the rest of the Netherlands unless they capitulated.

Spain and Portugal were themselves fascist dictatorships. Perhaps the only reason Spain didn't join the Axis was the fact that it was still largely devastated from the Spanish Civil War, which only finished 5 months before Germany invaded Poland.

Yugoslavia collapsed after the German invasion, but the Partisans, with logistical and air support from the USSR and Western Allies kept fighting, and by the end of the war had largely driven the Axis forces out.

Greece resisted till the last, successfully repelling an Italian invasion before being overrun by the Germans.

There is no evidence of Ireland refuelling U-boats, and in fact we allowed Allied aircraft to overfly Ireland, using the Donegal corridor, in order to search for U-boats.

The whole "Britain stood alone, so you should be grateful" shtick, well, while their resistance was no doubt admirable, if it wasn't for an accident of geography in the form of the Channel, they would probably have been steamrollered by the Germans in just as short a time.

I can't disagree with anything you have said here Peader. You are very well versed on the history of WWII. As a teenager I was told that story about the refuelling of the U Boats on the west coast of Ireland. I would imagine there was a modicum of truth to it as there was still very strong anti-British feeling throughout Ireland at the time. You are probably correct about the Channel providing a geographical buffer which saved Britain - in fact I think they were out of airplanes to defend the country at the very end, were they not? And the Germans decided to turn their attentions elsewhere. But none of the above changes the fact that the British saved our bacon in WWII by default.

[peadar1987]

I can't disagree with anything you have said here Peader. You are very well versed on the history of WWII. As a teenager I was told that story about the refuelling of the U Boats on the west coast of Ireland. I would imagine there was a modicum of truth to it as there was still very strong anti-British feeling throughout Ireland at the time. You are probably correct about the Channel providing a geographical buffer which saved Britain - in fact I think they were out of airplanes to defend the country at the very end, were they not? And the Germans decided to turn their attentions elsewhere. But none of the above changes the fact that the British saved our bacon in WWII by default.

As did the Russians... But you won't catch me saying anything nice about that Stalin fella :cool:

[Diggs246]

As did the Russians... But you won't catch me saying anything nice about that Stalin fella :cool:

Before the brits give themselves too much credit for being the good guys during ww2. They should have a good read of this first

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percentages_agreement

[Fixer82]

As did the Russians... But you won't catch me saying anything nice about that Stalin fella :cool:

The Russians were the deciding factor in Germany’s ultimate defeat in WW2. You don’t hear that too much in western media funnily enough

[seanfhear]

Was it something like 20 million Russians that died ? They did the vast majority of fighting dying etc against the Germans .

[peadar1987]

The Russians were the deciding factor in Germany’s ultimate defeat in WW2. You don’t hear that too much in western media funnily enough

I think it's a bit too simple to give any one nation the "deciding role". If it wasn't for the Russians bleeding them dry in the east, the Germans could well have conquered Britain. If it wasn't for the Greeks holding out for so long, the Germans might have captured Moscow before the Russian winter hit. If it wasn't for the Americans, the Western Allies probably would never have been able to invade France in '44. If it wasn't for the Brits, there would have been nowhere to launch the bombing raids which crippled Germany's industry. Take out any one of those (except possibly the Greeks) and the war could have gone very differently.

[Diggs246]

I cant say this is our proudest moment !

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/international/ireland-5-germany-2-when-nazi-salutes-took-over-dalymount-park-1.3678273

[pineapple stu]

Meh. I don't think it's fair to judge it from today's perspective. Same thing happened quite regularly at the 1936 Olympics. I think the England football team did it too

[Diggs246]

Meh. I don't think it's fair to judge it from today's perspective. Same thing happened quite regularly at the 1936 Olympics. I think the England football team did it too

The game was in Dublin, not berlin. We should have told them to go **** themselves even without hindsight

[tetsujin1979]

Yeah, the England team did it ahead of a game in Berlin

[marinobohs]

I cant say this is our proudest moment !

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/international/ireland-5-germany-2-when-nazi-salutes-took-over-dalymount-park-1.3678273

there is a picture floating around of Queen Lizzie (as a child) and her family giving the same salute. hardly anything to get worked up about.

[marinobohs]

The game was in Dublin, not berlin. We should have told them to go **** themselves even without hindsight

Presumably tell the all Blacks to go ****** themselves when they try that Haka thing on Saturday :o

[Diggs246]

Presumably tell the all Blacks to go ****** themselves when they try that Haka thing on Saturday :o

yep, they shouldnt be alowed do it

[marinobohs]

It's great that James can now write his own signature and is an expert on Brexit. I am sure Leo will value the petition and will certainly discuss it with Theresa.

he knows that Britain is surrounded by water and dependent on sea trade - apparently more than the UK Brexit Minister knew up until recently.Must be hard for you to accept citizens have a right to comment on something that will effect the rest of their lives, haven't they some cake to eat ?

[marinobohs]

yep, they shouldnt be alowed do it bet your parties are a real blast ;)