James McClean M Wrexham b.1989

[Closed Account]

Well I'd hardly say there's nothing in it, it is what it is, a fist pump to the opposition supporters. Just a matter of opinion then whether one considers that his entitlement or whether he should be professional enough to turn the other cheek. I like him and can see both sides, but it's pretty obvious it would be more beneficial for his club who pay him a decent wage, his own reputation and the general safety inside the stadium if he left it off, but I can see the temptation and a part of me loves him for it, I must admit.
Gary Neville did something similiar. Utd fans loved him, Liverpool fans loathed him. Slight difference in that Neville didn't have much previous. Pulis's post match comments nailed it. James is not the smartest tool in the box.

After the good grace he had built up with GypsyBlackCat.....

[elroy]

Watched it a few times, there's nothing in it. Graham starts it IMO by squaring up to McClean, and the rest of the squad join in.

I agree. Couldn't believe when I saw it on MOTD last night what all the fuss was about. The game is becoming so bloody santised. His reputation goes before him on this one but it's not like he went over and goaded the fans. Not advisable but it should be acknowledged that he was subject to abuse from the away fans for the entire game. Unfortunately he has made himself a target for such abuse.

[Olé Olé]

Worst thing is that McClean's name gets the headline. Graham confronting him was what caused the media stir. But he'll hardly gain a mention in the media because the English media loves a good James McClean story. Newcastle's Danny Graham will hardly garner a mention. Sure he wears a poppy when he's told.

[tricky_colour]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLsj5r9gzOE

[Kingdom]

I'd say myself and Joe are in the minority so. As it stands, I have no time for him, and think he's a clown of the highest order. Sectarian abuse? Ask my posterior. The abuse the African lads get is proper abuse, and it's rare in the majority for them to react.

McClean's a fool who loves the attention.

[DeLorean]

Danny Graham looks like some knob all the same... especially as he's being held back there at the end, the proper English hard man's "come on den, come on den" approach, safe in the knowledge that nothing is actually going to happen.

[Kingdom]

Danny Graham looks like some knob all the same... especially as he's being held back there at the end, the proper hard man English "come on den, come on den" approach, safe in the knowledge that nothing is actually going to happen.

To be fair you could apply that to nearly every race of man. Knuckle-draggers isn't that what they're referred to?

[DeLorean]

Probably, but it's an absolute way of life from what I've witnessed over there. I always thought of it as small c0ck syndrome but knuckle-draggers fits the bill for sure.

[Stuttgart88]

Much ado about nothing. If fans boo a player all game they can't get upset if the player makes a pretty mild expression of pleasure back. Graham started the aggravation. In general I'd agree with Kingdom but I think some incidents need to be kept in perspective.

[Charlie Darwin]

The abuse the African lads get is proper abuse, and it's rare in the majority for them to react.
a) it's not a competition - somebody else getting worse abuse does not make his reaction any more or less unreasonable.
b) regardless of how rare or otherwise it is for other people to react, doesn't make McClean's reaction any more or less unreasonable.

He gave a fist pump in the general direction of some idiots who were giving him dog's abuse. Anybody who takes it out of that slightly ridiculous context is the fool for me.

[DeLorean]

McClean gets FA punishment (http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/34575996)


(Note; FA meaning f**k all) :p

[geysir]

Just as I wrote, McClean has no case to answer.


I'd say myself and Joe are in the minority so. As it stands, I have no time for him, and think he's a clown of the highest order. .
Go easy Kingdom, Graham probably has a mother who loves him.


Sectarian abuse? Ask my posterior. The abuse the African lads get is proper abuse, and it's rare in the majority for them to react

Your comparison is way out of the mark and almost reads that a good little black player is one who doesn't react to racist abuse. And "proper abuse"? what's proper abuse? Ethnic bigoted foul abuse directed at an Irishman isn't proper abuse?
I suppose Kirk Broadfoot would agree with you :)

Actually if a black player reacted to racial abuse with a gentle fist pump post game, would that attract censure from you?

Do you think the abuse Mido received from Newcastle fans wasn't proper abuse, that (similar to what McClean received) foul, sectarian, ethnic based abuse directed at Mido was not real abuse? That if post match, Mido had made some mild gesture to the abusers post he should be censured and no action taken against the opposition players who aggressively surrounded him and no action taken against the bigoted opposition fans?

The McClean syndrome in England is similar to what Lennon faced in Scotland, similar in that people who were not the most educated or socially aware, blamed Lennon for the abuse and if there was abuse, they opined that it wasn't bigoted/sectarian in nature that needed to be sanctioned because it was just directed at a hateful, wee angry red head, irish nationalist Lennon, who aggravated fans and was responsible for the abuse he received.
Thankfully there have been some shifting of attitude towards that type of redirected racism.
The Sunderland players should have been rapped on the knuckles, video evidence of those Sunderland fans should have been scrutinised and a few of the loud mouth should be selected for criminal action or/and sporting related sanctions.
And yes McClean will have to depend on authorities taking action like they did against Broadfoot and gaining support in different ways.

[Charlie Darwin]

Fortunately, McClean just got a warning. He's been playing so well. Would s*ck if he suddenly miss a game.
It would be ridiculous if he missed a game for celebrating in somebody's general direction.

[DeLorean]

Just as I wrote, McClean has no case to answer.

He did get a formal warning though, so they obviously saw it as unwelcome, unsavoury, provocative or whatever. I would assume if he does the same thing again the punishment will be greater, so it's not as if they've looked at it and condoned his actions.

[Olé Olé]

http://westbrom.com/forum/index.php?topic=16535.450

WBA forum seems to be coming down in favour of McClean, in general.

Again, this perception that he's an IRA supporter because he likes a "pro-IRA" song crops up... That's getting a bit tiresome. But it's a lovely stick for the ignorant to beat him with to help satisfy their own agendas.

[tricky_colour]

A somewhat 'mixed' reaction on the Sunderland forum :D

http://www.readytogo.net/smb/threads/mcclean.1148121/

Actually he even has some support there


Our fans were abusing him the whole game so they shouldnt cry about it if he does the same.



The thread is is interesting to read, not that I have read it all, there are incredibly of 1000 replies in it since the incident, that is some going!!

To put that in perspective that is about the same number as the total posts in O'Shea Doyle's or Clark's treads!

[tricky_colour]

Another post from the Sunderland forum.


We slaughtered him for 90 mins and he gave a bit back.

Tbh if you can't take a bit of stick back, don't dish it out.

Granted some of the posts are somewhat more hostile, but overall the incident has done him more good than harm.

This one made me laugh though.


I have got a problem with some overpaid arsehole goading our fans at the final whistle over a win that the ref gave them, and then ignoring his manager calling him "not the sharpest tool in the box" by posting a picture of him doing that on Twitter


:D

[Charlie Darwin]

A somewhat 'mixed' reaction on the Sunderland forum :D

http://www.readytogo.net/smb/threads/mcclean.1148121/

Actually he even has some support there



The thread is is interesting to read, not that I have read it all, there are incredibly of 1000 replies in it since the incident, that is some going!!

To put that in perspective that is about the same number as the total posts in O'Shea Doyle's or Clark's treads!
I see Black Cat Gypsy is over there talking nonsense about nobody wanting Derry City in the LOI, as if he has a clue about anything LOI fans want. It's fine pretending to be a Bohs fan on here but it's a bit rich doing it elsewhere.

[DeLorean]

"Our fans were abusing him the whole game so they shouldnt cry about it if he does the same."

I see that got 55 likes so there is some degree of sanity over there. Gas the way some others mention Graham and Catts "sorting him"!

[nigel-harps1954]

I've come to the conclusion that Gypsy Black Cat doesn't even really know what he's saying himself. Some of the stuff said on that Sunderland forum would make you wince.

[OwlsFan]

I forgot to mention previously that McLean is among the minority of Irish players who sign the anthem. Nice to see. It always irritated me during the Charlton era that the players not born in Ireland never bothered learning the words in English and at least singing them rather than just staring mutely at the flag. Mind you some of the home born players did that as well and continue to do.

[strangeirish]

I forgot to mention previously that McLean is among the minority of Irish players who sign the anthem.
Kind of figured he is tone deaf...

[tricky_colour]

I see that got 55 likes so there is some degree of sanity over there. Gas the way some others mention Graham and Catts "sorting him"!

I think the fact he was willing into stand up for himself wins him some respect.

They would expect one of their players to do the same if the circumstances were reversed.

And of course they are dishing it out so they will think it is fair game.

I had not noticed the likes when I visited but it did get a lot, over twice as many as an abusive post on that page, so he has won the Sunderland fans over!

[tricky_colour]

I see that got 55 likes so there is some degree of sanity over there. Gas the way some others mention Graham and Catts "sorting him"!

I think the fact he was willing into stand up for himself wins him some respect.

They would expect one of their players to do the same if the circumstances were reversed.

And of course they are dishing it out so they will think it is fair game.

I had not noticed the likes when I visited but it did get a lot, over twice as many as an abusive post on that page, so he has won the Sunderland fans over!

But he will get respect from them because 90% would have done the same and they would not think much of someone
who meekly walked down the tunnel.

[DeLorean]

From the couple of pages I read, this was definitely the highlight:


"So a lad gets booed for 90 minutes, probs abused verbally as well when in ear shot of SAFC fans, and when he celebrates a win everyone takes the high ground. Give your vaginas an airing tonight chaps"

[Kingdom]

Not trying to hide on the subject or not respond to other opinions:

I can appreciate that my posts on this subject don't appear the cleverest. Of course racism is a catch-all situation. It's probably my own lack of education on the issue, or the scope of my exposure to sectarianism, that makes my posts stupid. Then of course my utter dislike of McClean clouds my judgement of the subject.

Bottom line, I don't think any player is wrong to react towards fans at the end of a game who have abused him throughout a game, and absolutely it's pantomime stuff for fans to be in uproar if players make gestures. I just think there is a time and a place for reactions, without turning the forum all dramatic on the subject.

[tricky_colour]

Problem is the politicisation of none political events, you go to a football match to watch football, it is not a political rally.

[DannyInvincible]

Not trying to hide on the subject or not respond to other opinions:

I can appreciate that my posts on this subject don't appear the cleverest. Of course racism is a catch-all situation. It's probably my own lack of education on the issue, or the scope of my exposure to sectarianism, that makes my posts stupid. Then of course my utter dislike of McClean clouds my judgement of the subject.

Bottom line, I don't think any player is wrong to react towards fans at the end of a game who have abused him throughout a game, and absolutely it's pantomime stuff for fans to be in uproar if players make gestures. I just think there is a time and a place for reactions, without turning the forum all dramatic on the subject.

McClean wears his heart on his sleeve, as we're all well aware, but he's entitled to do that without being subjected to xenophobic abuse (and that's what it was, no matter whether one might think they've heard or seen worse in other contexts). There's a difference between a fist-pump at fans in triumph and subjecting a player to ninety minutes of directed xenophobic abuse. He's not gone out of his way singling people out for unsavoury abuse. It was a nothing incident and it was the reaction of Graham in creating a physical confrontation that made it "newsworthy".

McClean is also entitled to emphasise his identity (which isn't harming anyone) elsewhere, republican or whatever - there's no crime in that - without having others trying to impose their views upon him. The only reason it ever became an issue on the football field is because he was forced into making uncomfortable decisions by those who (you might even say inappropriately) organise the poppy spectacle and by those who decided to play a national anthem before a club friendly. I'm sure James would be glad to play football without such distractions; even if he is strong and resolute in character, could you really say being on the end of such vitriolic abuse week in and week out would be comforting for anyone? He's a tough kid, but to say he enjoys it? I dunno... Would or could anyone, besides the masochist, enjoy that?

There's been a lot of victim-blaming of McClean but those who were abusing him are ultimately responsible for their own idiocy and actions. It would have been nice to see the FA comment on that too, yet they formally warned McClean?... They should have encouraged Sunderland (by strong words or some form of penalisation) to find the fans responsible and engage with them in a programme that would educate them as to the problem with what they were doing.

What is it that causes your utter dislike of McClean? Is it just his brashness/upfrontness or is there something else?

[Olé Olé]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2270573/Danny-Graham-join-Sunderland-5-5m-despite-Newcastle-links.html

It's nice to see the story has died down. I think everyone, bar some Sunderland supporters, realises it was a fairly tame gesture on McClean's part, even if it was slightly antagonistic.

Also, interesting to note that it was Danny Graham who confronted him. Danny Graham would identify as Geordie. However, a nice wage saw him move to Sunderland (see his comments re same above). It's a very funny contrast to see one so willing to put money over identity shove and confront James McClean. And, as someone stated, it's not by scoring goals that Graham is going to earn Sunderland fans' respect.

Even though I don't come from the North or support WBA, I think James McClean is my favourite character in football. I'd have him up there with my all-time footballing idol, Roy Keane. Not for footballing reasons but for his strength of character and determination and refusal to adhere to dictation.

[DeLorean]

Lee Cattermole was asked about it on a interview for Soccer Saturday. To be fair he really played it down, saying "it was nothing" a few times. He did mention it was a small but disappointing as Sunderland gave him a huge opportunity but said it was just heat of the moment stuff.

[tricky_colour]

Assist for McClean!!

Norwich 0 West Brom 1 Rondón 46'

I had been watching bit of it but missed the goal, McClean made a good run earlier on beating his man and putting in a good cross, nothing came of it though.
He just got booked tackle form behind :)

Hoolalhan off.

[Olé Olé]

http://westbrom.com/forum/index.php?topic=17313.0

A lot of praise reserved for McClean on the WBA forum after the match:
"Good move by Pulisto double up down the Norwich right to allow McClean to help out Brunt" I think Brunt was given MOTM. McClean helping on that front.
"I was really impressed with McLean today, his final ball was vastly improved on previous weeks. "
"Sessegnon, McLean and Myhill were all top for me but no-one played particularly badly."
"McClean is showing himself to be a bargain and what a friggin' cross for Rondons perfectly finished header. "
"Sess and McLean don't have put a shift in."


http://sportyhighlights.com/norwich-vs-west-brom-0-1-highlights/
It was a very lovely cross from our James. Lovely outswing on it to avoid the keeper and picked out the target lovey. Great run and great first time cross.

[SkStu]

How dare he use such a controversial and symbolically religious type of assist?! A cross no less. What about a perfectly neutral through ball or dink?! Absolutely outrageous, immature and inflammatory behaviour from this clown again. When will this end? He needs to f*cking cop on!!!

[Closed Account]

http://giant.gfycat.com/EachBelovedAmericancrayfish.gif

[tricky_colour]

He seems to be in fine form at the moment, playing well for West Brom who are quite high up the table now.

[DannyInvincible]

Is that his first assist in a competitive game? Think it is. Good to see him in good form and the fans behind him.

[Olé Olé]

Thing is, we know McClean is capable of relentless endeavour but he's also capable of end-product. The problem for him is that the former is ever-present but the latter is inconsistent. If he can add a bit of consistency in attacking contributions to the effort that Pulis values then he's bound to become a favourite among the fans.

WBA have only scored 8 goals in their 10 games so far this season which is the joint lowest in the league (alongside Liverpool, Watford and Sunderland). Would be nice to see James peg on a couple to that before Christmas to really enhance his worth to the side. He went on a good run of goals last season at Wigan.

[DannyInvincible]

With poppy-mania fast approaching its climax again, I wrote a piece to give some thoughts on a suggestion that James is in need of a history lesson, the nature and diversity of meaning conferred upon the symbol and its popular promotion (especially in respect of the north of Ireland) and the episode with the Sunderland fans and players last weekend.

You can read it here, if interested: https://danieldcollins.wordpress.com/2015/10/25/james-and-the-giant-poppy-episode-three/

[Olé Olé]

With poppy-mania fast approaching its climax again, I wrote a piece to give some thoughts on a suggestion that James is in need of a history lesson, the nature and diversity of meaning conferred upon the symbol and its popular promotion (especially in respect of the north of Ireland) and the episode with the Sunderland fans and players last weekend.

You can read it here, if interested: https://danieldcollins.wordpress.com/2015/10/25/james-and-the-giant-poppy-episode-three/

Nail on the head, as usual, Danny.

It's actually hilarious how England completely sweeps it's imperialistic conquests under a rug, contrary to, for example, the way the Germans have a Nazi shame.

[geysir]

Excellently presented Danny.
It ups the standards around here to have an actual scholar on board.

[DannyInvincible]

Excellently presented Danny.
It ups the standards around here to have an actual scholar on board.

Cor, I dunno about that, but cheers for the complimentary words!

[Fixer82]

With poppy-mania fast approaching its climax again, I wrote a piece to give some thoughts on a suggestion that James is in need of a history lesson, the nature and diversity of meaning conferred upon the symbol and its popular promotion (especially in respect of the north of Ireland) and the episode with the Sunderland fans and players last weekend.

You can read it here, if interested: https://danieldcollins.wordpress.com/2015/10/25/james-and-the-giant-poppy-episode-three/

great piece, well done

[DeLorean]

Conor McGregor's incoherent ramblings (http://www.independent.ie/sport/mma/f-politics-and-f-religion-conor-mcgregor-follows-up-on-controversial-poppy-rant-34153642.html) might take some of the heat of James this poppy season!

[NeverFeltBetter]

I said it yesterday when I saw that, you could read that for days and still not be completely sure what he's trying to say. Anyway, gets attention back on him I suppose, six weeks to the next fight right?

[geysir]

He was replying to a recently posted 2 year old picture depicting him wearing the poppy and with comment sarcastically questioning his use of the 1916 ballad (The Foggy Dew) as his intro song.
Not worth a comment on this thread, James has enough about him to take up all the available space in his own thread, there's not even space left for McGregor's watch.

[DeLorean]

True enough I suppose, my bad.

[Stuttgart88]

Thank God for Conor McGregor. He'll stop the Indo from moaning about our footballers' being overpaid knackers.

[paul_oshea]

I know what he's been doing and done but I don't like him, something does tell me though that behind it all he is probably a nice guy.

[DeLorean]

West Brom winger James McClean barracked with anti-IRA songs by Leicester fans after refusing to wear poppy in defeat (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3298474/West-Brom-winger-James-McClean-barracked-anti-IRA-songs-Leicester-fans-refusing-wear-poppy-defeat.html)

James McClean reacts on Twitter after West Brom's defeat to Leicester (http://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2015/10/31/james-mcclean-reacts-on-twitter-to-leicester-city-defeat/)

[Olé Olé]

That Daily Mail article is so pitiful. Refers to McClean as "Northern Ireland born" and has no evidence or specific info regarding the alleged "barracking." Just seeking to draw attention to the lack of a poppy on McClean's shirt again and make a story out of him for a few clicks.