James McClean M Wrexham b.1989

[SkStu]

ye big wally... :)

[geysir]

These Derry lads are not for turning their backs, except when it's their round.

[geysir]

According to Wiki, Zamora also received his passport (including formal clearance from FIFA, presumably) and was all set to play but then picked up an injury in training. The FA were on his tail again soon after.
After his registration for a change of associations was approved by FIFA, Zamora was called up to the T&T squad 3 times and 3 times he reneged.
I think I have heard a similar story elsewhere, I just can't quite connect where :)

[The Fly]

In the time-honored tradition of internet forum speculation, I've taken existing quotes from the relevant parties and extrapolated how such a conversation might transpire


Originally Posted by James McClean
Playing for the Republic was something I wanted to do. It wasn't a hard decision to make and no one put pressure on me, I grew up supporting the Republic and always saw myself as Irish. It was easy enough in the end.


OWC will be experiencing severe turbulence in 5, 4, 3.....

[ArdeeBhoy]

Ha ha...


Though joking aside, as alluded to on the previous page, in time-honoured way, he'll still probably be eligible 'elsewhere' until the next WCQ's start.

Trap's 'Modus operandi will be to ignore him, Hoolahan,Pilkington or even Stephen Ireland until after the summer.

Unless of course Hunt, Duff or McGeady get injured.
Personally I wouldn't shed too many tears if one of the latter two missed out, but just my opinion...

[ArdeeBhoy]

These Derry lads are not for turning their backs, except when it's their round.

Would entirely disagree with that! Well the last Doire man I was on a major session with...

[gastric]

Just wondering how do persuade a player to change allegiance back to NI ? You can't offer money, you can't guarantee a player a starting spot in a team (you would hope!), what exactly do you say or do? Threaten the player with OWC forum members paying a visit to them, offer free Bushmills Whisky for life or guarantee them qualification in the next World Cup Campaign, which would be lying of course. A very tough job which we made tougher by asking Don Givens to do it.

[Irwin3]

Just wondering how do persuade a player to change allegiance back to NI ? You can't offer money, you can't guarantee a player a starting spot in a team (you would hope!), what exactly do you say or do? Threaten the player with OWC forum members paying a visit to them, offer free Bushmills Whisky for life or guarantee them qualification in the next World Cup Campaign, which would be lying of course. A very tough job which we made tougher by asking Don Givens to do it.

:mad:

[tricky_colour]

Just wondering how do persuade a player to change allegiance back to NI ? You can't offer money, you can't guarantee a player a starting spot in a team (you would hope!), what exactly do you say or do? Threaten the player with OWC forum members paying a visit to them, offer free Bushmills Whisky for life or guarantee them qualification in the next World Cup Campaign, which would be lying of course. A very tough job which we made tougher by asking Don Givens to do it.

I don't think you can, the only person who could apply real pressure to him is Martin O'Neil, if he wanted to, that is what had me worried.
He would just have to plant the idea that if he played for the Republic he would not get a game at Sunderland, that would be a powerful incentive.
However that's not the kind of thing Martin would ever dream of doing.

[The Fly]

Just wondering how do persuade a player to change allegiance back to NI ? You can't offer money, you can't guarantee a player a starting spot in a team (you would hope!), what exactly do you say or do?

NI's strategy seems to revolve around getting the player to accept his own limitations.

[Charlie Darwin]

I don't think Martin of the O'Neills would apply any pressure to McClean. I don't think he's that bothered about international football. You saw from the way he applied for the England job and has continually refused to apply for Northern Ireland - he's a career-driven manager, and to him McClean is better off playing in a Euro Championships or a future Irish team than languishing in Northern Ireland.

[ArdeeBhoy]

I don't think you can, the only person who could apply real pressure to him is Martin O'Neill, if he wanted to, that is what had me worried.
He would just have to plant the idea that if he played for the Republic he would not get a game at Sunderland, that would be a powerful incentive.
Know you dismissed the idea, but that's just crazy talk, surely...

[tricky_colour]

Indeed and apart from that I expect Martin would have played for the republic is the rules allowed it at the time?

[tricky_colour]

Know you dismissed the idea, but that's just crazy talk, surely...

Indeed it is, I just got a bit panicked when I read comments from Michael O'Neil and assumed they were from
Martin O'Neil, but I have calmed down now!! :)

[Sullivinho]

Just wondering how do persuade a player to change allegiance back to NI ? You can't offer money, you can't guarantee a player a starting spot in a team (you would hope!), what exactly do you say or do? Threaten the player with OWC forum members paying a visit to them, offer free Bushmills Whisky for life or guarantee them qualification in the next World Cup Campaign, which would be lying of course. A very tough job which we made tougher by asking Don Givens to do it.

The absence of rohypnol on the WADA list (http://list.wada-ama.org) concerns me greatly in this regard. A loophole waiting to be exploited by a Machiavellian association if ever there was. Add the aforementioned Bushmill's and Gerry Armstrong's dulcet tone and you have a recipe for redefection.

[The Fly]

The IFA machiavellian?

http://ourweecountry.ipbhost.com/public/style_emoticons/default/sarcastic.gif

[DannyInvincible]

Indeed and apart from that I expect Martin would have played for the republic is the rules allowed it at the time?

There were no rules preventing him from playing for us at the time. Whether he was aware of this is another matter. We also happened to be a bit of a shambles back then whilst NI were qualifying for World Cups and competing in the prestigious Home Nations Championships. Bothering to check out whether he was eligible mightn't even have crossed his mind.

[tricky_colour]

There were no rules preventing him from playing for us at the time. Whether he was aware of this is another matter. We also happened to be a bit of a shambles back then whilst NI were qualifying for World Cups and competing in the prestigious Home Nations Championships. Bothering to check out whether he was eligible mightn't even have crossed his mind.

Yes I would agree we were a shamble back then, however there was a fairly recent rule change regarding eligibility so what was that then?
I am probably as confused on the issue as many others seem to be.

[SolitudeRed]

I notice the back of todays Belfast Telegraph had the main headline 'Come home James' alongside a picture of James McClean celebrating his goal last night. It reports that O'Neill has been led to believe that McClean is still open to persuasion and aims to have a word with him. Typical Belfast Telegraph headline I suppose should be taken with a pinch of salt.

[DannyInvincible]

Yes I would agree we were a shamble back then, however there was a fairly recent rule change regarding eligibility so what was that then?
I am probably as confused on the issue as many others seem to be.

There was a rule-change in 2009 whereby the age limit (formerly the age of 21) by which a player could switch association was lifted (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/africa/8083006.stm). I assume that's what you're referring to? The general rule in place regarding eligibility, however, has always allowed for those possessing the nationality of the association for whom they sought to play to declare for that association. As far back as 1946, article 21 of the Regulations of FIFA contained the following:



"The players (NB. of International Matches) must be selected by the National Associations concerned and be subjects of the country they represent."


As O'Neill would have been entitled to Irish citizenship since the age of 3 or 4 by virtue of the Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act 1956, he would also have been eligible to play for the FAI by the time he picked up his first senior cap for the IFA in 1971. Check out the link in my signature; I wrote a wee bit about it once... ;)

[DannyInvincible]

I notice the back of todays Belfast Telegraph had the main headline 'Come home James' alongside a picture of James McClean celebrating his goal last night. It reports that O'Neill has been led to believe that McClean is still open to persuasion and aims to have a word with him. Typical Belfast Telegraph headline I suppose should be taken with a pinch of salt.

I'm sure James knows well where his home is.

[co. down green]

I notice the back of todays Belfast Telegraph had the main headline 'Come home James' alongside a picture of James McClean celebrating his goal last night. It reports that O'Neill has been led to believe that McClean is still open to persuasion and aims to have a word with him. Typical Belfast Telegraph headline I suppose should be taken with a pinch of salt.

unionist sports journalist in sports headline shocker!!!!!

[SolitudeRed]

I'm sure James knows well where his home is.

Of course he doesn't he has been brainwashed by the SF/FAI/Pope Benedict XVI/IRA axis of evil into turning his back on the tolerant utopian nation that is Norn Iron, there can be no other rational explanation for such a defection :cool:

[ArdeeBhoy]

There were no rules preventing him from playing for us at the time. Whether he was aware of this is another matter. We also happened to be a bit of a shambles back then whilst NI were qualifying for World Cups and competing in the prestigious Home Nations Championships. Bothering to check out whether he was eligible mightn't even have crossed his mind.

For once we'll have to disagree. How dare you call it only 'prestigious'....

[ArdeeBhoy]

Of course he doesn't he has been brainwashed by the SF/FAI/Pope Benedict XVI/IRA axis of evil into turning his back on the tolerant utopian nation that is Norn Iron, there can be no other rational explanation for such a defection

Well if you go way back up the thread, at least one other poster had drawn that somewhat paranoid conclusion, that JMcC had been adversely 'influenced' by at least two of the above...

[Olé Olé]

Limited as my knowledge is regarding the nuances (if they can be termed as such) of the North's geography, would the fact that Michael O'Neill is a catholic from Portadown, Co. Armagh be somewhat different to McClean's background from Creggan in Derry? Hence, O'Neill trying to relate to James is more difficult than would appear on first glance?

Given the fact that McClean expressly stated his desire to play for the Republic prior to O'Neill getting the job and that Hunt and Duff have approached the wrong side of 30, I'm not quite sure what it would take to change his mind. Big enough a step as it was changing over, what could O'Neill say to make him change back? "Come with us mate, I promise you'll be be left wing in all our qualifiers if you're the top form left winger I have..." Should be the case anyway.

[Charlie Darwin]

McClean's not going to reconsider. He only switched 6 months ago and I suspect in his head he knows he'll be an Ireland international within the next year. Wilson would be more of a worry, but I don't think his head will be turned either. It's the likes of the McEleneys and Daniel Lafferty who could possibly make the switch to the Northern Irish team.

[gastric]

McClean's not going to reconsider. He only switched 6 months ago and I suspect in his head he knows he'll be an Ireland international within the next year. Wilson would be more of a worry, but I don't think his head will be turned either. It's the likes of the McEleneys and Daniel Lafferty who could possibly make the switch to the Northern Irish team.

I would agree that there is no way McCLean will switch back to NI, However, O'Neill has at least to be seen to be trying to do something about it in order to keep the fans happy. What does intrigue me about all of this, is this new positive discrimination in favour of Catholics. These players who have joined us have achieved more in terms of trying to remove politics and sectarianism from NI football than anybody else, even though the IFA are doing it for ulterior motives.

[tricky_colour]

There was a rule-change in 2009 whereby the age limit (formerly the age of 21) by which a player could switch association was lifted (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/africa/8083006.stm). I assume that's what you're referring to? The general rule in place regarding eligibility, however, has always allowed for those possessing the nationality of the association for whom they sought to play to declare for that association. As far back as 1946, article 21 of the Regulations of FIFA contained the following:



"The players (NB. of International Matches) must be selected by the National Associations concerned and be subjects of the country they represent."


As O'Neill would have been entitled to Irish citizenship since the age of 3 or 4 by virtue of the Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act 1956, he would also have been eligible to play for the FAI by the time he picked up his first senior cap for the IFA in 1971. Check out the link in my signature; I wrote a wee bit about it once... ;)

Yes I noticed you wrote ' a wee bit' about it, unfortunately it was rather too much for me to comprehend :)

[DannyInvincible]

Limited as my knowledge is regarding the nuances (if they can be termed as such) of the North's geography, would the fact that Michael O'Neill is a catholic from Portadown, Co. Armagh be somewhat different to McClean's background from Creggan in Derry? Hence, O'Neill trying to relate to James is more difficult than would appear on first glance?

Given the fact that McClean expressly stated his desire to play for the Republic prior to O'Neill getting the job and that Hunt and Duff have approached the wrong side of 30, I'm not quite sure what it would take to change his mind. Big enough a step as it was changing over, what could O'Neill say to make him change back? "Come with us mate, I promise you'll be be left wing in all our qualifiers if you're the top form left winger I have..." Should be the case anyway.

I'm sure (Michael) O'Neill and McClean have shared different upbringings by virtue of geography whilst also having shared some similar experiences, but it's not really as simple as that. There's also quite an age-gap to consider. Both are products of different environments and different generations. Guys like Liam Coyle and Liam O'Kane from pretty much the same place as McClean have represented NI in the past. Liam O'Kane's nephew is a good friend of mine, was next to me at the Estonia game and is as avid an Ireland supporter as myself with no interest in the NI team to my knowledge despite his uncle's former connection. Furthermore, it's not only northern-born players from Derry who've opted to declare for the FAI. Marc Wilson is from just north of Lurgan and Paul George is from near Downpatrick. Sure, then there's Shane Ferguson from near Eglinton just outside Derry and he's decided to stick with the IFA. And what about Gerry Armstrong who grew up on the Falls Road? I have it on good authority that he wears 'Ulster Banner' boxers nowadays!

Here's the opening clip from a fascinating and insightful address Martin O'Neill made in Áras an Uachtaráin in December of 2008 on what it meant to him to be Irish:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsKFaSbdCEY

He speaks of the anomalies, ironies, paradoxes and downright contradictions. Obviously his Irishness is something of which he's very proud, yet he was still the first Irish Catholic, as he puts it, to captain NI in football internationally. He speaks about it in the second part of the five clips. Whether that was a further expression of his complex and multifaceted version of Irishness or in spite of it remains open to debate, I suppose. Strangely though, Martin doesn't appear to mention having beaten my father in the hotly-contested end-of-year GAA handball final back in his St. Columb's days. Hmm, my da had assured me that finally beating him was Martin's defining moment!


McClean's not going to reconsider. He only switched 6 months ago and I suspect in his head he knows he'll be an Ireland international within the next year. Wilson would be more of a worry, but I don't think his head will be turned either. It's the likes of the McEleneys and Daniel Lafferty who could possibly make the switch to the Northern Irish team.

Has Lafferty declared for us?

[Olé Olé]

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2012/0104/oneillm.html
(http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2012/0104/oneillm.html)
"James McClean is eligible for Northern Ireland so of course he's on my radar," he said.
"Whilst respecting the wishes of the players, I'll be doing everything in my power and my remit to emphasise to them that their long-term futures lie with the Northern Ireland national team."

And the North's double standards on the "poaching" issue continue. But, alas, as Armstrong and the lads have specified before, these are "their" players; you can't poach what you already own, only if it escapes, then you can return it.

[Charlie Darwin]

That's a shockingly paternalistic tone. As if he just won't contemplate the idea McClean's future lies with, you know, following his heart and playing for the country he identifies with.

I think O'Neill will have more success than Worthington in convincing players to choose NI over ROI, but his quotes so far show he doesn't really understand the issue much better than his predecessor.


Has Lafferty declared for us?
Hmm, looks like he hasn't. I'm not sure why I thought he had.

[Newryrep]

Well he has..""James McClean is eligible for Northern Ireland so of course he's on my radar," he said. And by making
that statement he is.

However I don't think Martin will have an success, but we need to get a cap on him ASAP just to prevent
speculation and to clear the matter up.I can't see him returning either, he sounds 100% committed to us.

No we dont, we shouldnt have to cap somebody to tie him to us


Indeed and apart from that I expect Martin would have played for the republic is the rules allowed it at the time?

Rubbish and speculation see Danny' s excellent blog for clarification

[liamoo11]

It's the likes of the McEleneys and Daniel Lafferty who could possibly make the switch to the Northern Irish team.

Does anyone know if McEleney is llikely to switch? Doolin messed him around but hopefully he will not let that effect him. Really surprised if patrick mceleney does not move to england this month

[tricky_colour]

No we dont, we shouldnt have to cap somebody to tie him to us



Rubbish and speculation see Danny' s excellent blog for clarification

Yes I have seen his blog, but regarding capping him, firstly he wants to play for the Republic and capping him would get rid of all the speculation and perhaps pressure being put on him to switch.
Plus he is a good player so I think we would all like to see him get a chance sooner rather than later based on ability alone. So not so much to tie him in but because we need as many decent players as possible!!
On the other bit, yes that is speculation, he is from the North and at the time the North 'was' the Irishteam as far as international football was concerned, I think it was kind of like an all Ireland team in a way?
So I would say I was wrong on that point, there were 'both types' of players in the team and they were singing 'both kinds' of songs on the team bus in a friendly manner according to the MON interview.
It's not the first time i have posted 'rubbish' here by the way!!! :p

[DannyInvincible]

Yes I have seen his blog, but regarding capping him, firstly he wants to play for the Republic and capping him would get rid of all the speculation and perhaps pressure being put on him to switch.

I'd say NI fans have come to terms with that fact that McClean won't be backtracking. It's likely the IFA have also accepted it behind the scenes but they need a steady supply of oxygen to maintain their running media campaign attempting to highlight the supposed injustice. Mentioning whenever possible the name of a "defector" who has just burst onto the Premier League scene serves that agenda well.


On the other bit, yes that is speculation, he is from the North and at the time the North 'was' the Irishteam as far as international football was concerned, I think it was kind of like an all Ireland team in a way?
So I would say I was wrong on that point, there were 'both types' of players in the team and they were singing 'both kinds' of songs on the team bus in a friendly manner according to the MON interview.
It's not the first time i have posted 'rubbish' here by the way!!! :p

I don't think Martin O'Neill was strictly saying the the NI team was "the Irish team" back then, nor was it an all-island team either by any means. It was made up of players from nationalist backgrounds like himself who might well have self-defined as Irish and players from unionist backgrounds who might well have self-defined as British, but it wasn't made up of Irish players from south of the border. Admittedly, it would have been the stronger of the two teams on the island at the time. In that sense, possibly southerners lent their support north of the border. I wasn't even one year old in 1986, mind, so I'm sure someone else would be better equipped with years than I to know for sure.

[bwagner]

McClean (centre) scored his first Black Cats goal against Wigan on Tuesday Sunderland's James McClean appears to have ruled out reversing his decision to declare for the Republic of Ireland.

McClean played for Northern Ireland at youth and under-21 level but opted for the Republic last year after turning down a Northern Ireland senior call-up.

New Northern Ireland boss Michael O'Neill said earlier this week that McClean was on his "radar" but those hopes appear to have been dashed.

"I have declared myself for the Republic," McClean told the Irish News.

"That's where I see my (international) future.

"If I don't get called up, then I'll live with that but I have confidence in my own ability that I will get a call-up at some stage with the Republic of Ireland.

"Hopefully this now puts this matter to bed."

McClean, who moved to Sunderland from Derry City last August, revealed that he had been contacted by the new Northern Ireland manager in recent days.

"He rang me just to congratulate me about how the last two (Sunderland) games have gone and to see how I'm getting on.

"He said he would keep in touch with me and he'll call up and see me, which I appreciate, but I just want to put the Northern Ireland thing to bed now."

After a number of outings as substitute, the Derry-born player made his first Sunderland start in the New Year's Day win over Manchester City and he scored in the 4-1 win over Wigan on Tuesday

[geysir]

I'm with Newry Rep on this one, no need to rush him ahead of the queue in order to cap him.
If the IFA wants to talk (IFA talk whereas FAI poach) and try to persuade a player to reverse his declared intent to play for the FAI, then fine.
We already have thrown in the towel on that one.
There really is no hope that the IFA and their merry band of mopes, will ever see the slightest hypocrisy or irony in such an approach.

[Murfinator]

I'm amazed how insecure some people are about this. The lad declared for us, he's Irish. I don't see why he needs to re-iterate this.

[Stuttgart88]

Because of the press coverage perhaps?

[Olé Olé]

Fair play to him for settling the matter almost immediately after O'Neill's comments.

Imagine if Noel King said he was calling up to Newcastle to see Shane Ferguson and how he's getting on and keeping in touch.

[ifk101]

The lad declared for us, he's Irish.

:bigsmile:

[DannyInvincible]

I'm amazed how insecure some people are about this. The lad declared for us, he's Irish. I don't see why he needs to re-iterate this.

Look, all these defectors have a right; James has as much right to a 100-pager as Gibby.

[geysir]

How long (was a chinaman, I know) was the the thread on Daniel Kearns? I think he might have run Gibson close.

It's a bit like the ending to Saving Private Ryan, when the last Ryan was told by a dying Tom Hanks, to justify the massive effort made to save him.

[Newryrep]

How long (was a chinaman, I know) was the the thread on Daniel Kearns? I think he might have run Gibson close.

It's a bit like the ending to Saving Private Ryan, when the last Ryan was told by a dying Tom Hanks, to justify the massive effort made to save him.

I am pretty sure the original eligibilty thread was a 100 pager and included the premature claims of victory by the IFA, gleefully recorded by local media subsequently proved to be rather embarasing as the FAI also claimed victory , think the current one was started to use as a reference point

[tetsujin1979]

McClean posted this on twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/JMcC_23/status/155255460361015297

Following my dream, mind was never going to change, latest barage of insults come right on queue #irish (https://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23irish)
So that's the end of that.
Incidentally, he also posted this charming message that was sent to him: https://twitter.com/#!/Neil_GFC/status/155259476465811456

@JMcC_23 (https://twitter.com/JMcC_23) should have ****ed off and played for the ROI at youth level then!

[Charlie Darwin]

He spelled "barrage" incorrectly. I don't think he's cut out for us.

[DannyInvincible]

McClean posted this on twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/JMcC_23/status/155255460361015297

The succinct and to-the-point hashtag is a nice touch.

[BonnieShels]

He spelled "barrage" incorrectly. I don't think he's cut out for us.

And cue. The youth of today.

[Sullivinho]

I harbor the fear that Twitter is the pre-sentient Antichrist (Facebook is the decoy) but some of it's emanations don't half make me smile.