James McClean M Wrexham b.1989

[Olé Olé]

We know what his answer is to the question and the journalists know this. But they're looking to fill column inches so a slightly different wording of the same answer that may be open to a different interpretation about the most topical Irish footballer around at the moment is the best way to do so.

I can't see why how James is attracting controversy by answering the question he's asked, particularly when it reflects the viewpoint of quite a large portion of people involved in football in the North.

I think the comments open up an interesting issue regarding eligibility also. I'm interpreting from his comments regarding playing for the NI under 21 side that he only did so to further his career and had the option to do so with Ireland been available then he would have duly gone down that alley.
So here is one caveat in the issue of poaching; If approaching players such as McClean was within the realms of acceptable powers (from an IFA perspective) for the FAI, then McClean furthering his career with NI wouldn't have occurred. In fact, he would have forged a meaningful international career with Ireland.
Another questions arises in whether the FAI would have selected McClean for under-21 games. Given his late development, it's unlikely that at Institute or Trojans he would have been recognised for underage caps at various levels, in the same way that Patrick McEleney was when he was at Sunderland and Derry City. Most likely, McClean would have been performing solely at club level, until Irish selection recognised his form in 2009 or 2010.

[IsMiseSean]

Another article on the issue

McClean urged to stay quiet (http://www.teamtalk.com/news/15274/7748966/McClean-urged-to-stay-quiet)

[back of the net]

Another article on the issue

McClean urged to stay quiet (http://www.teamtalk.com/news/15274/7748966/McClean-urged-to-stay-quiet)

Surprised it took his club so long to get involved and tell him to tone it down.

As per Geysirs comments - it is an unwanted sideshow with only 4 weeks to the euros, and although McClean has not done anything to warrant such disgusting abuse on his twitter , the fact remains he is in the spotlight now and really should not have reacted to it.

[jbyrne]

Surprised it took his club so long to get involved and tell him to tone it down.

As per Geysirs comments - it is an unwanted sideshow with only 4 weeks to the euros, and although McClean has not done anything to warrant such disgusting abuse on his twitter , the fact remains he is in the spotlight now and really should not have reacted to it.

why should he have to button it when he obviously feels strongly about it? Id say the spotlight he is in about it doesnt cause him a seconds thought.

If this issue causes a distraction to our Euros build-up beyond this weekend its all up really

[Dodge]

As per Geysirs comments - it is an unwanted sideshow with only 4 weeks to the euros, and although McClean has not done anything to warrant such disgusting abuse on his twitter , the fact remains he is in the spotlight now and really should not have reacted to it.
Are you siggesting that the response from twitter gob****es is worse than he had to put up with living in Derry?

This episode means absolutely nothing to McClean. if anything he'll get a laugh out of it, or spur him on to shove it up'em

[back of the net]

why should he have to button it when he obviously feels strongly about it? Id say the spotlight he is in about it doesnt cause him a seconds thought.

If this issue causes a distraction to our Euros build-up beyond this weekend its all up really

He has let his views known on his passion to play for the Republic which is great and responded to the comments,but it should not have been allowed to linger on IMO

Unfortunately there is idiots out there , alot of whom seem to want to write rubbish on his twitter account.

I dont care whether he is bothered/not bothered about the spotlight he is in, however I would imagine Martin O'neill does and even more so Trappatoni.

Of course its a distraction , Trap doesnt want issues like this happening 4 weeks before the tournament starts....all focus should be on the preparing for Croatia and also I would imagine that Trap and O'neill want him focussed on the upcoming games for club and country.

Its disgraceful that he has to put up with it and I appreciate your point on why should he have to - but reality is he is a professional footballer and has to learn to deal with such incidents better and I think he will learn that the longer he is in the game IMO.

[back of the net]

Are you siggesting that the response from twitter gob****es is worse than he had to put up with living in Derry?



Dodge - how did you manage to come to the conclusion that I was suggesting that from my post?

[geysir]

He said that the threats were "reprehensible", but added the caveat that McClean also had to take responsibility. I can't swallow that, considering the months of abuse just for declaring for the FAI.
And that sentiment of blaming McClean is followed blindly to an extent by some people here.
O'Neill just told him not to react to the reaction, which is fair enough.
Nothing about that McClean should not express his national pride whenever he's asked how he felt to make the squad.
Or perhaps we can have different standards for different players, it's okay for Cox but not McClean.

[Dodge]

Dodge - how did you manage to come to the conclusion that I was suggesting that from my post?

You're suggesting it affects him negatively. I'm saying that's rubbish

Apologies for the roundabout way of saying it in the original post

[back of the net]

You're suggesting it affects him negatively. I'm saying that's rubbish

Apologies for the roundabout way of saying it in the original post

No need for Apologies Dodge

I think Trap and O'neill will want his mind focussed on the whats ahead not distracted by these thugs on twitter.
The incidents so far with twitter and McClean have been small but if allowed to continue it could escalate hence better to end it now.

Twitter is a ridiculous bloody thing and we have already seen footballers cancelling their accounts due to abuse.

[Dodge]

I think Trap and O'neill will want his mind focussed on the whats ahead not distracted by these thugs on twitter.
The incidents so far with twitter and McClean have been small but if allowed to continue it could escalate hence better to end it now.
You're really blowing this way out of proportion. Without being too harsh, footballers have to fill their time with something. if its not twitter, it'll be raosting burds or playing FIFA on their xbox. If its not them, its McClean winding up idiots on twitter.

Some, like poor James McCarthy, have real problems to think about. Sectarian abuse on twitter is nothing to someone like McClean. Somethin he seems well able to handle (and I commend him for standing by his tweets/pictures)


Twitter is a ridiculous bloody thing and we have already seen footballers cancelling their accounts due to abuse.
And you've seen others use it for better means. You don't like/get it, and thats fine. But plenty do. Celebs getting twitter abuse is on the same level as internet forums.

[paul_oshea]

I'm sure they can spit roast birds and still tweet at the same time.

It takes a level of maturity, education and non-ignorance to rise above it though Dodge, and more importantly to remain dignified. Whatever way you look at it, its slightly childish and by responding saying "love it" or whatever terms he used, is goading and showing to be at their level.

Any application/tool or whatever has its benefits and disadvantages, but its generally down to the usage of said things, usage being the users.

[tricky_colour]

That's some accent he has.
I couldn't make head nor tail out of his Derry speak.
We should put him, Robbie and McGeady in front of the media in Poland to answer questions.


Imagine what a conversation between him and Trap would be like!!

I think they would revert to sign language!!!

[back of the net]

You're really blowing this way out of proportion. Without being too harsh, footballers have to fill their time with something. if its not twitter, it'll be raosting burds or playing FIFA on their xbox. If its not them, its McClean winding up idiots on twitter.

Some, like poor James McCarthy, have real problems to think about. Sectarian abuse on twitter is nothing to someone like McClean. Somethin he seems well able to handle (and I commend him for standing by his tweets/pictures)


And you've seen others use it for better means. You don't like/get it, and thats fine. But plenty do. Celebs getting twitter abuse is on the same level as internet forums.


I dont think Im blowing it out of proportion at all Dodge tbh.

Its a small thing now but why risk having it snowball in something bigger

As you said james Mccarthy has "real" problems to deal with , which i completely agree with but his problems are not something thats going to result in disgusting abuse for the player, so I wouldnt really agree with McCarthys dilemma been used in the McClean issue.

[DannyInvincible]

The IFA have released a statement in response to James' comments: http://www.irishfa.com/news/item/7314/irish-fa-statement/

[IsMiseSean]

The IFA have released a statement in response to James' comments: http://www.irishfa.com/news/item/7314/irish-fa-statement/

It's all getting a bit ridiculous now...

[DannyInvincible]

My own take on James' media comments; I think they're naive and a bit careless rather than consciously malicious. The IFA certainly aren't an anti-Catholic organisation. It has to be acknowledged that they and NI fans have more-or-less stamped out the type of sectarianism from their ranks that led to abuse being directed at Neil Lennon all those years ago. They run a 'Football for All' programme and players from Catholic backgrounds like Niall McGinn and Paddy McCourt are welcomed in Windsor Park without problem. In McClean's simplified world, I think "Catholic", "nationalist" and "republican" all mean one and the same. Even academics carelessly use such words interchangeably in relation to NI. He's essentially saying that he didn't feel at home playing for the IFA as someone from an Irish republican background (although he uses the word "Catholic"), which is understandable given the IFA represent an Irish/British identity that is alien to him; not that he had anything against the Protestants who also made up the squads of which he was part. NI fans are accusing him of malicious lies and bigotry, but I think this is unfair; he's expressing his perception of NI football, albeit rather naively.

[Predator]

The IFA are disappointed with James' comments, so they are. So they throw up the deflector shield of Football For All and say nothing about some of the things McClean actually mentioned: feeling uncomfortable with the anthem, flags and songs - the general image of Northern Irish football.

[ifk101]

You're right Predator - there's nothing in that press release that addresses what James McClean had to say although I agree with Danny that McClean's comments are both careless and naive. And while the IFA's Football For All program is admirable, the fact that there is need for such a program is noteworthy.

[co. down green]

The IFA are disappointed with James' comments, so they are. So they throw up the deflector shield of Football For All and say nothing about some of the things McClean actually mentioned: feeling uncomfortable with the anthem, flags and songs - the general image of Northern Irish football.

Very true, usual spin

[Not Brazil]

The snippet there sounded very interesting as he spoke about his inability to attach himself to NI due to the sectarian flags etc in Windsor Park.

The flag he specifically mentioned was the Union Flag.

The Union Flag is the National Flag of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

It is no more a "sectarian" flag than the National Flag of the Republic Of Ireland.

[BonnieShels]

The flag he specifically mentioned was the Union Flag.

The Union Flag is the National Flag of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

It is no more a "sectarian" flag than the National Flag of the Republic Of Ireland.

All true. Is he still not allowed be "offended" and be uncomfortable by it's presence?

[Not Brazil]

So here is one caveat in the issue of poaching; If approaching players such as McClean was within the realms of acceptable powers (from an IFA perspective) for the FAI, then McClean furthering his career with NI wouldn't have occurred. In fact, he would have forged a meaningful international career with Ireland.


What absolute nonsense.

Why didn't McClean simply let the FAI know that he would love to play for them - before he wore a Northern Ireland shirt?

Hopefully Republican minded players born in Northern Ireland, with a similar Republican outlook to McClean, will wrap the door of the FAI before they deny a Northern Ireland shirt to someone whose dream it is to play for Northern Ireland at all levels, including Senior Internationals.

Chase your dream, but chase it at the earliest available opportunity.

Whilst McClean does come across as a bit of a sectarian bigot - given his recent comments to the press - the neanderthals threatening him, and dishing out sectarian abuse, are utter pond life.

[Not Brazil]

All true. Is he still not allowed be "offended" and be uncomfortable by it's presence?

You are aware that the Union Flag does not fly in any official capacity at Northern Ireland games?

Some fans bring them - I suspect will see more fans with them, going forward.

Should I be "offended" and "uncomfortable" if I attend an Ireland rugby match, or a Republic Of Ireland football match?

If a Union Flag "offends" young McClean, seems odd that he plys his trade in the United Kingdom.

[BonnieShels]

You are aware that the Union Flag does not fly in any official capacity at Northern Ireland games?

Some fans bring them - I suspect will see more fans with them, going forward.

Should I be "offended" and "uncomfortable" if I attend an Ireland rugby match, or a Republic Of Ireland football match?

If a Union Flag "offends" young McClean, seems odd that he plys his trade in the United Kingdom.

Official capacity? Who cares about the official capacity? I don't think James is worried about how the British State chooses to represent itself.
Why are you being deliberately obtuse about this?

You can be offended at whatever the hell you want to be if you attend an Irish rugby match. If the fact that Denis Leamy or Donnchadh O'Callaghan is in the team I think the presence of them should offend more than a Tricolour.

McClean has always plied his trade in the United Kingdom. He now plies his trade in Britain. But I think McClean's political leanings may concede like many other Irish nationalists that the presence of Union Jack in Sunderland or Birmingham or Wigan has slightly different connotations and meanings.

I mean the Union Jacks up and down the length of the Mall from the Queens gaff to Trafalgar Square have a different "feel" to them than say, Union Jacks up and down the length of the Donegall Road in July. Wouldn't you agree?

[Drumcondra 69er]

What absolute nonsense.

Why didn't McClean simply let the FAI know that he would love to play for them - before he wore a Northern Ireland shirt?

Hopefully Republican minded players born in Northern Ireland, with a similar Republican outlook to McClean, will wrap the door of the FAI before they deny a Northern Ireland shirt to someone whose dream it is to play for Northern Ireland at all levels, including Senior Internationals.

Chase your dream, but chase it at the earliest available opportunity.

Whilst McClean does come across as a bit of a sectarian bigot - given his recent comments to the press - the neanderthals threatening him, and dishing out sectarian abuse, are utter pond life.

For right or wrong he's on record as saying he player for NI underage in order to further his career, as a stepping stone was how he put it. He does seem to realise that it can be considered the wrong thing to do. "It’s probably the wrong thing to say but it was just a stepping stone in my career.”

I think you're being OTT saying he's a sectarian bigot, he's an Irishman who wants to play for his country, he has said nothing negative about players who want to play for NI, just that he wasn't comfortable doing it.

Hope you're keeping well mate, unfortunately I'm not due back from Poland till the 23rd so going to have to miss the cricket in Belfast, had intended going up as well but staying on after the group stages for a few days with the missus, only way I could get the green card for the full 2 weeks! :)

[BonnieShels]

For right or wrong he's on record as saying he player for NI underage in order to further his career, as a stepping stone was how he put it. He does seem to realise that it can be considered the wrong thing to do. "It’s probably the wrong thing to say but it was just a stepping stone in my career.”

I think you're being OTT saying he's a sectarian bigot, he's an Irishman who wants to play for his country, he has said nothing negative about players who want to play for NI, just that he wasn't comfortable doing it.

Hope you're keeping well mate, unfortunately I'm not due back from Poland till the 23rd so going to have to miss the cricket in Belfast, had intended going up as well but staying on after the group stages for a few days with the missus, only way I could get the green card for the full 2 weeks! :)


I'd hate for it to turn into 4 weeks for ya DC.

[Drumcondra 69er]

I'd hate for it to turn into 4 weeks for ya DC.

Yeah, that'd be a nightmare! :)

[tricky_colour]

It's all getting a bit ridiculous now...

I was thinking the very same thing when I found it on the front page of the BBC's football section!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/

However I expect that may be the end of the matter now...........................

[tricky_colour]

The flag he specifically mentioned was the Union Flag.

The Union Flag is the National Flag of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

It is no more a "sectarian" flag than the National Flag of the Republic Of Ireland.


Oh I think it is, do Scotland for example use the Union flag?

Never in a million years would the Scots fans use a Union Flag, not it it was the last flag in the world!!!

[tricky_colour]

What absolute nonsense.

Why didn't McClean simply let the FAI know that he would love to play for them - before he wore a Northern Ireland shirt?

Hopefully Republican minded players born in Northern Ireland, with a similar Republican outlook to McClean, will wrap the door of the FAI before they deny a Northern Ireland shirt to someone whose dream it is to play for Northern Ireland at all levels, including Senior Internationals.

Chase your dream, but chase it at the earliest available opportunity.

Whilst McClean does come across as a bit of a sectarian bigot - given his recent comments to the press - the neanderthals threatening him, and dishing out sectarian abuse, are utter pond life.


I think when you are growing up the natural thing is to play for your local football association for all sorts of practical
reasons.

Afterall the under age squads are stepping stone for playing for the senior squad aren't they?


I mean is Kevin Doyle said he used the Irish under age squads as a stepping stone to the full team would anyone be offended?

[Not Brazil]

Oh I think it is, do Scotland for example use the Union flag?

Never in a million years would the Scots fans use a Union Flag, not it it was the last flag in the world!!!

What nonsense.

The National Flag of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is not sectarian - it is idiocy to suggest it is.

I wouldn't mind the IFA adopting the St Patrick's Cross as their official flag, instead of the Ulster Banner - that would equate with what the Scots do.


If a Union Flag 'offends' you, you've got some serious issues you need to work through.

[Not Brazil]

I think when you are growing up the natural thing is to play for your local football association for all sorts of practical
reasons.

Afterall the under age squads are stepping stone for playing for the senior squad aren't they?


Put simply, there should be no place in any IFA squad at Under 19 and above for any player who harbours ambitions of playing senior International football for another Association.

[Olé Olé]

Hopefully Republican minded players born in Northern Ireland, with a similar Republican outlook to McClean, will wrap the door of the FAI before they deny a Northern Ireland shirt to someone whose dream it is to play for Northern Ireland at all levels, including Senior Internationals.


Not a bad idea. So when the likes of McClean and Wilson decided to wrap the door of the FAI repeatedly, can you explain the rationale in Michael O'Neill stating in the media that the pair should be contacted?

Well I suppose O'Neill's approach would all make total sense if Wilson and McClean had a complete change of heart and decided they were in fact Northern Irish. Then he'd be justified. Don't think that occurred though, I'm open to correction.

I think it's fairly clear that what you consider best practice should be in some regards, is not always the best practice exercised by the IFA and, henceforth, not best practice exercised by certain players in making an early decision (the merits of which have been repeatedly discussed). You constantly put forward the early decision theory and which the IFA subsequently shoots down by even entertaining the prospect of players like McClean, Wilson and Alex Bruce entering the Northern Irish fold.



Whilst McClean does come across as a bit of a sectarian bigot - given his recent comments to the press - the neanderthals threatening him, and dishing out sectarian abuse, are utter pond life.

So perhaps I made an error by referring to sectarian flags, which I do retract, by all means, if there doesn't exist any flag with sectarian connotations at such internationals. But, on what grounds do you now refer to McClean as a "sectarian bigot"? This is a term I've seen bandied about in circles such as the OWC. I've only seen McClean assert his own identity. Whilst his use of the word 'catholic' as interchangeable with 'republican', I think it's somewhat innocent and clearly not intended to infer offence.

[Olé Olé]

I think when you are growing up the natural thing is to play for your local football association for all sorts of practical
reasons.

Afterall the under age squads are stepping stone for playing for the senior squad aren't they?


I mean is Kevin Doyle said he used the Irish under age squads as a stepping stone to the full team would anyone be offended?

How many of the numerous lower-league English players in recent squads have honestly harboured life-long ambitions of representing Northern Ireland? And I'm sure by extension this can relate to English-born players in Irish squads also. If an underage IFA squad contains two players, one being a Republican born in Derry and the other being English declaring for Northern Ireland, it may well be the case that both players are only using the call-up for career prospects.

[tricky_colour]

What nonsense.

The National Flag of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is not sectarian - it is idiocy to suggest it is.

I wouldn't mind the IFA adopting the St Patrick's Cross as their official flag, instead of the Ulster Banner - that would equate with what the Scots do.


If a Union Flag 'offends' you, you've got some serious issues you need to work through.

It is a sectarian symbol in the context in which it is used.
No point in denying the obvious.

I have no serious issues, it is the IFA which has serious issues.

[tricky_colour]

Put simply, there should be no place in any IFA squad at Under 19 and above for any player who harbours ambitions of playing senior International football for another Association.

You see that is ridiculous and indicative of the problems within the IFA and their supporters - absolutely ridiculous and sectarian.

Unbelievable!!!

[tricky_colour]

How many of the numerous lower-league English players in recent squads have honestly harboured life-long ambitions of representing Northern Ireland? And I'm sure by extension this can relate to English-born players in Irish squads also. If an underage IFA squad contains two players, one being a Republican born in Derry and the other being English declaring for Northern Ireland, it may well be the case that both players are only using the call-up for career prospects.

I don't quite understand what your point is, I did realise not English players were allowed to represent NI, unless here has been a rule change I have not heard about.

[SolitudeRed]

I don't quite understand what your point is, I did realise English players were allowed to represent NI, unless here has been a rule change I have not heard about.

That agreement amongst the home nations not to pick other each others players was done away with a while ago I presume thats what your thinking about anyway. There are plenty of English born players in NI teams now Lee Camp has England U21 caps and the likes of Norwood, Thompson, Hodson and Gorman were born in England IIRC.

On the issue of flags I did find it funny that last year in the Carling Nations cup the NI fans there had mostly union Jacks on show don't think the Scots or Welsh had any UJs on show. There were just a couple of Ulster banners and also a large flag of the Royal Irish Regiment on show which seemed a bit odd to me a bit out of place at a football match IMO

[Olé Olé]

I don't quite understand what your point is, I did realise English players were allowed to represent NI, unless here has been a rule change I have not heard about.

My analogy muddied the waters a bit.

My point is that while some Northern Irish supporters fall over themselves to criticize Republicans who use international football with the IFA merely for career furthering purposes.
However, they will not be so willing to castigate English players who use Northern Ireland caps for the exact same purpose.

Niall McGinn has stated that he supports Ireland, so I doubt his boyhood dream was to represent the IFA. But he does so, for whatever purposes. Maybe he feels this is his best chance of international recognition, which was most likely the case for James McClean prior to his move to Sunderland and his good form at Derry.

I'm just wondering about the viability of the FAI approaching player selection slightly differently. Were underage managers to pick squads on the basis of the best players born in the 32 counties in said age-groups, wouldn't this stamp out players being picked by the IFA and the same players staying with the IFA longer than deemed acceptable by supporters when the facts of the case are that the player's ambition lies with Ireland? Again, this would probably result in the old poaching objection being wheeled out but the benefits in directly providing the players with the option (FAI, IFA) from an early stage could help ensure player's ambitions are ascertained early on (if said player holds fully-formed, unequivocal and precise aspirations in their teens).

[Not Brazil]

Not a bad idea.



So perhaps I made an error by referring to sectarian flags, which I do retract, by all means, if there doesn't exist any flag with sectarian connotations at such internationals.

Whilst his use of the word 'catholic' as interchangeable with 'republican'

1. Thanks

2. Fair play for admitting your mistake

3. I'm sure some of republicanism's founding fathers would be well impressed by young James using the word "Catholic" as being interchangeable with "Republican".

[Predator]

Whilst McClean does come across as a bit of a sectarian bigot - given his recent comments to the press - the neanderthals threatening him, and dishing out sectarian abuse, are utter pond life.McClean comes across as being naive and uneducated. For whatever reason, you don't like to admit what McClean's comments expose about the Northern Ireland set up and environment and how it is generally viewed.


You are aware that the Union Flag does not fly in any official capacity at Northern Ireland games?

Some fans bring them - I suspect will see more fans with them, going forward. Odd that you think there will be more Union Jacks, given that the association claims to want to be more inclusive, not exclusive. And fans stress their desire to see a "cross-community" team.

I suppose Irish nationalists will have to cede to the continued one-sided image of the Northern Ireland team, for it is clearly the unionist identity that carries most weight - the sensitivities of nationalists who might play for or support Northern Ireland does not matter enough to change GTSQ, to tone down flags saying "GOD SAVE THE QUEEN", Orange Order flags and so on. They will have to like it or lump it.

Relevant images: http://www.inpho.ie/cache/inpho/f4/c3/3c/a2944ef9c37846052a6b093474e05a20365b8cf3b4/INPHO_00514392.jpg
http://www.inpho.ie/cache/inpho/ef/14/c7/4af1e9806f96d35a79800bd41748a110ddbbc1e7a0/INPHO_00514390.jpg
http://www.inpho.ie/cache/inpho/ac/bf/bb/ef89bc3ad677685593698763ac22f948da36666cb8/INPHO_00516028.jpg
http://www.inpho.ie/cache/inpho/7f/d4/31/7cbdd03558561d76bb3d4cbbc0cc0841a739c686e9/INPHO_00519756.jpg

No, it's all James' fault for feeling uncomfortable.

[Not Brazil]

My analogy muddied the waters a bit.

My point is that while some Northern Irish supporters fall over themselves to criticize Republicans who use international football with the IFA merely for career furthering purposes.
However, they will not be so willing to castigate English players who use Northern Ireland caps for the exact same purpose.

Perhaps you can enlighten me as to the identity of any player in any of IFA underage squads who harbours realistic ambitions of playing for England?

[Not Brazil]

It is a sectarian symbol in the context in which it is used.
No point in denying the obvious.


It's not sectarian in any way shape or form.

The Union Flag is the official flag of Northern Ireland - albeit not used by the IFA in an official capacity at our matches.

The IFA is, proudly, a British Association.

You have to be a British Citizen to play for Northern Ireland.

If there was no Union, there would be no Northern Ireland.

There is a Union - and for that reason you are always likely to find some patriotic British Citizens at Northern Ireland matches with Union Flags.

I've no gripes with republicans not wanting to play for Northern Ireland - except McClean did.

[Not Brazil]

No, it's all James' fault for feeling uncomfortable.

James told us all he felt uncomfortable because he's a Catholic.

He dragged his religious beliefs into the discussion on more than one occasion.

[Predator]

James told us all he felt uncomfortable because he's a Catholic.

He dragged his religious beliefs into the discussion on more than one occasion.Yes, it's all his fault...

[Olé Olé]

1. Thanks

2. Fair play for admitting your mistake

3. I'm sure some of republicanism's founding fathers would be well impressed by young James using the word "Catholic" as being interchangeable with "Republican".

That was very selective, editing my post to ignore my counter-arguments.

I'll restate them:
1. Michael O'Neill's willingness/eagerness to call up McClean and Wilson: I thought they made their decision, did Michael not get the memo that players finalizing their international allegiance 'early' would help the IFA?
2. Do sectarian flags exist in Windsor Park at international games?
3. Why is James McClean a "sectarian bigot"? Please answer with examples and evidence. Examples and evidence should demonstrate James McClean held the intention to owe himself to sectarianism. Do you construe his misguided but innocent rotation of 'catholic' and 'republic' as downright sectarianism?


Perhaps you can enlighten me as to the identity of any player in any of IFA underage squads who harbours realistic ambitions of playing for England?

I think 'realistic' is the operative word in this respect.

Were McClean's Ireland ambitions 'realistic' prior to his Sunderland move, while he was with Derry City and playing for NI under-21's? His move to Sunderland made these dreams more likely to be realised. Should Lee Hodson or any of the other 9 or more English-born players in the latest NI under 21 side gain a move to Chelsea or Manchester United in the morning, is it possible that they will consider a switch of allegiance?

Maybe some day we'll see a IFA player switch their allegiance to the English FA and see whether they are met with the same bile that McClean (or any of his counterparts) was.

[tricky_colour]

My analogy muddied the waters a bit.

My point is that while some Northern Irish supporters fall over themselves to criticize Republicans who use international football with the IFA merely for career furthering purposes.
However, they will not be so willing to castigate English players who use Northern Ireland caps for the exact same purpose.

Niall McGinn has stated that he supports Ireland, so I doubt his boyhood dream was to represent the IFA. But he does so, for whatever purposes. Maybe he feels this is his best chance of international recognition, which was most likely the case for James McClean prior to his move to Sunderland and his good form at Derry.

I'm just wondering about the viability of the FAI approaching player selection slightly differently. Were underage managers to pick squads on the basis of the best players born in the 32 counties in said age-groups, wouldn't this stamp out players being picked by the IFA and the same players staying with the IFA longer than deemed acceptable by supporters when the facts of the case are that the player's ambition lies with Ireland? Again, this would probably result in the old poaching objection being wheeled out but the benefits in directly providing the players with the option (FAI, IFA) from an early stage could help ensure player's ambitions are ascertained early on (if said player holds fully-formed, unequivocal and precise aspirations in their teens).


It's pretty simple for me, you play for your local FA when you are growing up then you choose your senior FA when the time comes
if you are good enough.
All the rest is a load of nonsense, it's the players decision who he plays for not that of an FA, not least because what kind of idiot
would force a player to play for a team he did not want to represent.
Trying to terrorise a player into playing for you is the daftest idea I have every heard, you could not make it up.

[Olé Olé]

It's pretty simple for me, you play for your local FA when you are growing up then you choose your senior FA when the time comes
if you are good enough.
All the rest is a load of nonsense, it's the players decision who he plays for not that of an FA, not least because what kind of idiot
would force a player to play for a team he did not want to represent.
Trying to terrorise a player into playing for you is the daftest idea I have every heard, you could not make it up.

I'd prescribe to this. There are plenty examples of international footballers playing underage football for their country of birth, erstwhile intending and hoping to play international football with another country and will commit to these intentions at the earliest convenience. In the context of Ireland's first Euro2012 game, Ivan Rakitic is one such player who is Swiss-born to Croat parents and played under 21 for Switzerland. Quality player, big loss to Switzerland but he was plying his trade with Basel and switching allegiance to Croatia would hardly be the best move for an un-established young player. A bit of breathing space and less pressure is the most equitable way to treat such players.

While I'd harbour some sentiment that you should play and ally yourself with the association and country you want to represent, there can exist circumstances which render this difficult for young footballers who are already in a high-pressure environment.

[Not Brazil]

I'll restate them:
1. Michael O'Neill's willingness/eagerness to call up McClean and Wilson: I thought they made their decision, did Michael not get the memo that players finalizing their international allegiance 'early' would help the IFA?
2. Do sectarian flags exist in Windsor Park at international games?
3. Why is James McClean a "sectarian bigot"? Please answer with examples and evidence.

1. O'Neill was absolutely wrong to even entertain the notion of approaching either McClean or Wilson.
2. What do you define as a 'sectarian flag'?
3. I said he comes across as a bit of a sectarian bigot. In his press statements eg, 'not many Catholics' in the squads (how many is not many James?), it comes across that he is uncomfortable with Protestants. He seems eager to bang on about where he says his prayers...why?