James McClean M Wrexham b.1989

[BonnieShels]

At least the Martin O'Neill and Roy Keane thread is now our dedicated poppy forum.

My how times have changed.

[DannyInvincible]

I see James has been left out of the Wigan squad playing away at Yeovil today. Word on Twitter is that he was sent home for refusal to wear a poppy: https://twitter.com/search?q=james%20mcclean&src=tyah&f=realtime

Something from earlier in the week: http://www.independent.ie/incoming/james-joy-over-roy-29725119.html


JAMES McCLEAN will be working with his "Dad" when fellow Derryman Martin O'Neill takes control of the Ireland senior team, according to David Meyler.

“See your dad's taking over Ireland by the looks of the Irish press,” said Meyler in a Twitter chat with McClean.

And McClean (above) is more than happy that Roy Keane is part of the new management team.

“Obviously, everyone has their opinion. I think a player that was as good as Roy Keane to be in the Ireland set-up would be great,” was McClean's response to news that Keane is in the mix.

Meyler, who Keane signed for Sunderland when he was manager at the Stadium of Light, is also understandably pleased but limited himself to: “It will be interesting if it happens.”

[NeverFeltBetter]

I haven't seen anything resembling a reliable source for that story yet.

[DannyInvincible]

I haven't seen anything resembling a reliable source for that story yet.

Nor I. Some on Twitter have reported he's actually at home in Derry, or at least was in Derry yesterday, so it may be a purely tactical decision.

[DannyInvincible]

'Derry Daily' now reporting the story: http://www.derrydaily.net/2013/11/10/mcclean-dropped-from-wigan-for-not-wearing-poppy/


Former Derry City winger James McClean was dropped by Wigan Athletic for their Sky Bet Championship game against Yeovil Town this afternoon for not wearing a Remembrance Poppy.

It is not the first time the Creggan man has refused to wear the emblem. The Republic of Ireland international received death threats and a storm of criticism when he refused to wear the poppy while playing for Sunderland last year.

On that occasion he wore a normal shirt for the game against Everton in the lead-up to Remembrance Sunday, rather than one embroidered with a poppy.

At the time, McClean auctioned his own poppy-less shirt for a children’s charity and he insisted he would do the same again.

“People have their own opinions,’” he said. “They have their beliefs and I have mine. I don’t regret it, come next year I’m going to do the same thing.”

He was supported at the time by his club and international team-mate John O’Shea, who said the whole team were behind his decision.

Speaking earlier this year, he said: “I got a lot of flak from everybody,” McClean added, “but I’ll say it again, it doesn’t bother me. Every year I’m not going to wear it, so I’ll take whatever comes.”

Whether the 'Derry Daily' is a reliable source or not is another question.

[tetsujin1979]

He did post this on twitter the other day - https://twitter.com/JMcC_23/status/399206036969897984 - but I don't know if it's a photo he took, or something he saw online

Taking all sorts on twitter today: https://twitter.com/search?q=to%3AJMcC_23&f=realtime
It's about 5:1 in the ratio of "you're utter scum":"I support your decision"

[Roberto]

I'm happy to say there is no truth in this. It was put to Owen Coyle after game and his response 'James McClean wasn't rested. He has a dead leg. I'm embarrassed to have been asked that question in this day and age."
"I come from an Irish background myself, and everyone is entitled to their own opinions."

[IsMiseSean]

Taking all sorts on twitter today: https://twitter.com/search?q=to%3AJMcC_23&f=realtime
It's about 5:1 in the ratio of "you're utter scum":"I support your decision"

I wonder does Jon Snow's twitter account get the same level of abuse?

[bennocelt]

Well thats all over for another year.

[geysir]

On the 12th hour, of the 10th day, of the 11th month.

Finally
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_BmEYu-thJMg/TNrgnP7w9cI/AAAAAAAAAdA/6Qr4dOBgPl8/s400/wilted+poppy.jpg

[The Fly]

I'm happy to say there is no truth in this. It was put to Owen Coyle after game and his response 'James McClean wasn't rested. He has a dead leg. I'm embarrassed to have been asked that question in this day and age."
"I come from an Irish background myself, and everyone is entitled to their own opinions."

Indeed. It would be monumentally stupid for any club to pursue such a policy, and leave themselves open to some sort of legal action.

[Paddy Garcia]

Indeed. It would be monumentally stupid for any club to pursue such a policy, and leave themselves open to some sort of legal action.

Stupid & Football - two words you would never find on the same page!

[ArdeeBhoy]

Decent short summary here...

http://www.irishpost.co.uk/sport/sports-comment/why-would-a-son-of-creggan-wear-the-poppy

[Stuttgart88]

Tony Evans in the Times today had a good piece saying how self righteous football and the media have become about the poppy, and saying it's daft to expect all manner of foreigners to make the statement. Robert Fisk in the Indy last week had a scathing attack on poppy symbolism too.

That said my daughter (10) and her class put on a very moving tribute to the dead in her school on Friday with not a hint of politics, just a grim recognition of the horror of WW1. It'd have been churlish for me to have told a 10 year old I'm not going to wear one, in the spirit of what she and her classmates were trying to achieve.

I have to say I've been quite taken aback by a lot of the jingoism that has accompanied it this year. I'm not thick, I know it's always been thus, but for some reason every year it seems to get a bit more in your face and its definitely given me reason to think twice about it. None of youse has though :)

[ArdeeBhoy]

Not football related, but this makes you think.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/google/google-doodle/10441144/Google-criticised-for-demaning-tribute-to-Britains-war-dead.html

Seriously, this BS has to stop...

[DannyInvincible]

Not football related, but this makes you think.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/google/google-doodle/10441144/Google-criticised-for-demaning-tribute-to-Britains-war-dead.html

Seriously, this BS has to stop...

Can't believe that piece is genuine. It reads like a parody. Especially this:


Gerry Sutcliffe, a Labour MP who sits on the Culture, Media and Sport committee, said: “Around Remembrance Day it is demeaning not to have something that is spectacular.”

Then again, it is the Telegraph.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Even The Belfast Telegraph talks more sense...

[Gather round]

I have to say I've been quite taken aback by a lot of the jingoism that has accompanied it this year. I'm not thick, I know it's always been thus, but for some reason every year it seems to get a bit more in your face and its definitely given me reason to think twice about it. None of youse has though :)

I'd distinguish between the Remembrance tradition (dating back to the World Wars) and the fetish made of the Military in this country (if not new, then much more pronounced since the Mid-East Wars started).

I know I shouldn't, but that Torygraph article made me laugh.

[Stuttgart88]

I'd distinguish between the Remembrance tradition (dating back to the World Wars) and the fetish made of the Military in this country.

Is there a way of doing that though? If there was I'd do it.

Speaking of military fetishism, Simon Barnes had a dig at the RFU in last week's Times, criticising the whole match day atmosphere at "HQ" which is patronising to the fans, but also taking note that the RFU is a bit too attached to using the army on match day (abseiling from the roof, presenting the match ball to the ref...). I agree. It's as if the RFU thinks that sporting nationalism is the same as military nationalism, which it's not, though I think England fails to make this distinction in several sports.

[geysir]

It's with a degree of certainty that we can say that sports events have been totally hijacked by the fanatical rule britannia types in England, not unlike the worst excesses of US military patriotism paraded at events with varying doses of saccharine enhanced sentiment. Other countries in Europe can manage to remember their war dead on remembrance day with upmost dignity, minus the jingoism.

[tricky_colour]

Not football related, but this makes you think.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/google/google-doodle/10441144/Google-criticised-for-demaning-tribute-to-Britains-war-dead.html

Seriously, this BS has to stop...

That's nothing, you should see what they have done to the youtube with google+ comments system!!

[thischarmingman]

It's with a degree of certainty that we can say that sports events have been totally hijacked by the fanatical rule britannia types in England, not unlike the worst excesses of US military patriotism paraded at events with varying doses of saccharine enhanced sentiment. Other countries in Europe can manage to remember their war dead on remembrance day with upmost dignity, minus the jingoism.

Indeed: http://www.salon.com/2013/11/11/stop_thanking_the_troops_for_me_no_they_dont_prote ct_our_freedoms/

[DannyInvincible]

I know I shouldn't, but that Torygraph article made me laugh.

It has to be said, their own paltry effort was fairly unspectacular.

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc12/poguemahone85/tele_zpsacbccc53.png

[IsMiseSean]

Another victim of poppy fascism...
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/nov/13/charlene-white-itv-news-presenter-remembrance-day-poppy

[Stuttgart88]

The banner at Chelsea was very, shall we say, in your face. There was a great photo of it draped over the stand when Shane Long scored his goal. At a club like Chelsea you just know its a statement laden with nationalism rather than respect.

[DannyInvincible]

This shocker (https://twitter.com/Alan9208/status/400394779202437120) was tweeted to McClean last night:

https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1466121_10152041137777682_833818228_n.jpg

By an ex-soldier, no less... :confused:

[ArdeeBhoy]

New day, same eejits...just like the morons at the game Stutts refers to. These clowns know nothing ​of history.

Why do they even care what McClean thinks?

[gastric]

A few comments on the above. One, it is disgusting and uncalled for, however, why the hell is McClean back on twitter with his history of silly comments? His comments in the past have come back to haunt him, so it is hard to feel sorry for him. And while Danny vehemently disagrees with me on this, why doesn' McClean release a statement explaining his unique situation. Until then, he is many people's east target as they see him simply as anti-British.

[geysir]

A few comments on the above. One, it is disgusting and uncalled for, however, why the hell is McClean back on twitter with his history of silly comments? His comments in the past have come back to haunt him, so it is hard to feel sorry for him. And while Danny vehemently disagrees with me on this, why doesn' McClean release a statement explaining his unique situation. Until then, he is many people's east target as they see him simply as anti-British.
McClean has had a shared experience, not a unique one. Why should he release a letter explaining his situation to a bunch of fascists and their supporters in society, saying 'please leave me alone and respect my views'? It's not his job to educate the bigots of this world or even to try to get them to understand him. It's up to the rest in society to support his freedom to respectfully choose.
That guy should be charged with a hate crime, so at least that he and those like him, should get the message to keep quiet.
Permission for the outbreaks of hate abuse against any figure who choses not to wear the poppy, has been given by the almost instutionalised hijacking of the poppy celebration by the rule britannia brigade, dragging it a long distance away from a respectful memorial period to the fallen soldier.

[Roberto]

This shocker (https://twitter.com/Alan9208/status/400394779202437120) was tweeted to McClean last night:

https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1466121_10152041137777682_833818228_n.jpg

By an ex-soldier, no less... :confused:

Don't most people join the army because they are thick?

[gastric]

McClean has had a shared experience, not a unique one. Why should he release a letter explaining his situation to a bunch of fascists and their supporters in society, saying 'please leave me alone and respect my views'? It's not his job to educate the bigots of this world or even to try to get them to understand him. It's up to the rest in society to support his freedom to respectfully choose.
That guy should be charged with a hate crime, so at least that he and those like him, should get the message to keep quiet.
Permission for the outbreaks of hate abuse against any figure who choses not to wear the poppy, has been given by the almost instutionalised hijacking of the poppy celebration by the rule britannia brigade, dragging it a long distance away from a respectful memorial period to the fallen soldier.


I would not disagree with your point about the wearing of the poppy being hijacked by right wing elements. But McClean himself has stirred things a bit with some very silly political comments and has now left himself open to such disgusting, disgraceful attacks. This guy will not be charged as there are too many like him out there and that unfortunately is reality. McClean should know by now that twitter creates a lot of problems for him, so why continue to use it?
When I mentioned McClean's position as being unique, I was referring to him being an English based Irish international from Derry who has refused to wear a poppy (I apologise for not being clearer).
I mentioned McClean should clarify his position last year and again this year, not to appease idiots, but so the general public and media have a better understanding of his motives. This tweet is one of many issues surrounding McClean and his refusal to wear the poppy. Last year he was booed for quite a number of weeks after not wearing a poppy, this year we had the issue of was he sent home by Wigan or not and now this crap. If anyone wants a fall guy around this time of the year, James is your man. Explaining his situation may not end all of this, but might at least take the spotlight off him at this time of year.

[DeLorean]

Anybody with half a brain would understand why McClean doesn't wear one. Those without even half a brain still wouldn't understand (or care to understand) after an explanation. There's no need for a statement, it would only put him in the firing line further due to the publicity it would attract. He should be forced off twitter though, for his own protection, seeing as he's too thick to do it himself.

[DannyInvincible]

A few comments on the above. One, it is disgusting and uncalled for, however, why the hell is McClean back on twitter with his history of silly comments? His comments in the past have come back to haunt him, so it is hard to feel sorry for him. And while Danny vehemently disagrees with me on this, why doesn' McClean release a statement explaining his unique situation. Until then, he is many people's east target as they see him simply as anti-British.

I believe he's been back on Twitter since the day he left Sunderland.

Anyway, James doesn't have to explain or justify his choice not to wear a poppy (most certainly not a unique situation; the poppy is a very contentious symbol in Derry and throughout the north of the country for obvious reasons) to anyone, nor does his opting not to do so mean that the abuse he receives is remotely warranted. Even if he was in some unique situation, the abuse would still be inexcusable. The above message is at the very least verging on legally criminal. Neither can James be responsible for simpletons equating any decision of his not to wear a poppy with anti-Britishness.


Don't most people join the army because they are thick?

Modern-day heroes...

[DannyInvincible]

But McClean himself has stirred things a bit with some very silly political comments and has now left himself open to such disgusting, disgraceful attacks.

Are you implying James is at fault? What comments are you referring to exactly and what has he said to warrant hate speech?


McClean should know by now that twitter creates a lot of problems for him, so why continue to use it?

The lad probably gets a buzz out of it, to be honest, but that by no means excuses hate speech.


When I mentioned McClean's position as being unique, I was referring to him being an English based Irish international from Derry who has refused to wear a poppy (I apologise for not being clearer).
I mentioned McClean should clarify his position last year and again this year, not to appease idiots, but so the general public and media have a better understanding of his motives. This tweet is one of many issues surrounding McClean and his refusal to wear the poppy. Last year he was booed for quite a number of weeks after not wearing a poppy, this year we had the issue of was he sent home by Wigan or not and now this crap. If anyone wants a fall guy around this time of the year, James is your man. Explaining his situation may not end all of this, but might at least take the spotlight off him at this time of year.

His motives are to be respected in a supposedly-free society, whether they remain private or are made public. Will the general public write him a letter of apology after their collective eureka moment or what? If uncouth idiots want to crudely simplify his stance down to a case of anti-Britishness, is it likely a public explanation will force them to drop their prejudicial agenda and amend their outlook? Those abusing him aren't necessarily abusing him because they misunderstand or lack insight. In fact, that former soldier knows full well why James would take issue with sporting a poppy and is, despicably, publicly baiting him and his community over it.

[Roberto]

Remember it is by and large 'uncouth idiots' (I like that one Danny) who are creating the fuss about James not wearing a poppy. I came across the following piece in an English paper last year (can't remember which one) that shows most English people are very reasonable about his subject and couldn't give a toss about the poppy.

''Now, McClean has not yet articulated the reason he chose not to wear a poppy (although the very idea that he should be forced to do so is itself laughable) however let’s suppose that he did, in that case the reason might include the words “Bloody Sunday Massacre”. McClean grew up on the Creggan estate in Derry from which came six of the 14 unarmed peaceful protestors killed by our heroic boys on that fateful day. I’d say McClean (http://www.sabotagetimes.com/football-sport/james-mcclean-sunderlands-overnight-50m-sensation/), an Irish Republican has at least six very good reasons why not to wear a poppy.
Is it really a “lack of respect” to refuse to honour an organisation which murdered innocent civilians on your doorstep before covering-up the exact circumstances of what happened, let alone acknowledging blame? “But,” the neo-Patriots say as the froth of indignation drips from their mouths “what about the 49,000 Irish soldiers who died fighting with the British in the First World War?” What about them? Those 49,000 soldiers died protecting freedom and personal choice. Should we trample across their graves simply so we can get the nod of approval from The Daily Mail and the meatheads on Twitter? Surely the best way of honouring the fallen is to preserve the freedom they fought and died to protect''

[Fixer82]

A few comments on the above. One, it is disgusting and uncalled for, however, why the hell is McClean back on twitter with his history of silly comments? His comments in the past have come back to haunt him, so it is hard to feel sorry for him. And while Danny vehemently disagrees with me on this, why doesn' McClean release a statement explaining his unique situation. Until then, he is many people's east target as they see him simply as anti-British.

Why should the fact that he's from Derry make it easier to understand why he wouldn't wear a poppy? Would it be even more of an outrage if a Dublin born English-based footballer refused to wear it?

[peadar1987]

Why should the fact that he's from Derry make it easier to understand why he wouldn't wear a poppy? Would it be even more of an outrage if a Dublin born English-based footballer refused to wear it?

Because he's from the same area as 6 of those killed by the British Army on Bloody Sunday, and the sentiment presumably runs a lot deeper there than it does in Dublin, where there hasn't been significant British military action since 1922.

[Gather round]

Because he's from the same area as 6 of those killed by the British Army on Bloody Sunday, and the sentiment presumably runs a lot deeper there than it does in Dublin, where there hasn't been significant British military action since 1922

Allegedly there was one in 1974 (ie the UVF are generally accepted to have been responsible, but suggestions of collusion persist).

Without wishing to add to the McClean debate nor downplay any atrocity, those were two incidents of thousands during the troubles. The sentiment generally runs deeper all over the place, in both parts of Ireland and beyond.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Yes. We, er, know.

[gastric]

It would seem I am out of step with everyone else on here in relation to James, but hopefully the controversy in relation to him wearing thepoppy will die down ove rhte next few years. At least we can all heopefully agree on that!

[DannyInvincible]

What Jon Snow dubbed "poppy fascism" has been steadily worsening year on year.

[ArdeeBhoy]

No longer take any notice of poppy-wearers. If they want to, fine.
But no longer feel the slightest empathy with this cause as it's been hijacked by morons and who use it as propaganda to, partially at least, try to con 'the masses' into following their misguided and unnecessary militaristic agenda.

[Junior]

The banner at Chelsea was very, shall we say, in your face. There was a great photo of it draped over the stand when Shane Long scored his goal. At a club like Chelsea you just know its a statement laden with nationalism rather than respect.

Not quite as spectacular or in your face as these bad boys.............

Dignity brother......



http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a131/JAMIEBOY05/popydisplay.jpg

http://i2.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/article1558051.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/Ibrox%20Remembrance%20Day-1558051

http://www.dothebouncy.com/articles/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/poppy-sunday-640x300.jpg

[ArdeeBhoy]

Hmm, a poppy tribute from a tribute club...

How quaint!

[youngirish]

The poppy what patriotic, imperialistic nonsense. A leftover from a Victorian mentality. Why should any Irish person honour the people who died fighting in the British armed forces? To whitewash history to suggest they did it to preserve Irish people's, or even working class English people's freedom is a nonsense. For every Second World War there were a dozen wars that they specifically were used to prevent people from attaining their freedom. Offhand I can think of:

The first and second Boer Wars
The Anglo-Irish War
The 3 Anglo-Afghan wars
The 3 Anglo-Burmese wars
The Anglo-Zulu War
The 2 Opium Wars
The Anglo-Ashanti Wars
The Anglo-Egyptian Wars

The notion that they fought preserving people's freedom in World War I is also a fairly inaccurate portrayal of historical fact. A more pointless war you couldn't imagine it was simply a result of an unrestricted arms build up and the inevitable tension that resulted from the imperial powers of Europe trying to jostle for their positions of power in the world order. The British and French were no more interested in preserving people's freedom than the Austrians or the Germans. In fact I think from our point of view here In Ireland the Germans provided us with weapons to help us to fight the British for our freedom.

Where's the remembrance day for all those people who have selflessly devoted their lives to helping to improve the lot of people born in more unfortunate circumstances than themselves instead of us celebrating what are essentially trained killers?

I have to add I live in England so it only annoys me because I have to put up with the hypocrisy of it all year in and year out.

[Charlie Darwin]

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/international/james-mcclean-denounces-belfast-telegraph-on-twitter-as-a-bitter-sectarian-paper-1.1598019

Good man James.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Nothing new there. Only a matter of time before MO'N bars him from Twitter?

Though if people constantly have a dig, you can understand why he has a go back.

[geysir]

Expect the IFA to issue a statement soon,
a threat has been detected, a baseless attack on their vanguard, the BT.

[DannyInvincible]

For every Second World War there were a dozen wars that they specifically were used to prevent people from attaining their freedom.

When did altruism ever govern the foreign policy of Western powers?


http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/international/james-mcclean-denounces-belfast-telegraph-on-twitter-as-a-bitter-sectarian-paper-1.1598019

Good man James.

I can't remember through all the drivel they've spouted over the past couple of years, but did the Belfast Telegraph actually refer to McClean as a "turncoat" or were they quoting some other bitter idiot?


Expect the IFA to issue a statement soon,
a threat has been detected, a baseless attack on their vanguard, the BT.

Over on OWC, numerous osteriches are under the impression that the Belfast Telegraph is very much an anti-IFA/NI paper.

[Charlie Darwin]

I can't remember through all the drivel they've spouted over the past couple of years, but did the Belfast Telegraph actually refer to McClean as a "turncoat" or were they quoting some other bitter idiot
This article (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/international/sunderland-new-boy-mcclean-switches-allegiance-to-republic-28644244.html) originally began with the phrase "Turncoat James McClean".