James McClean M Wrexham b.1989

[Not Brazil]

Walking around Brighton for the past week or so I have yet to notice anyone wearing one.

Various Services of Remembrance were held in Brighton on Sunday morning - as they were in villages, towns and cities throughout the United Kingdom. Most attending will have worn a Poppy.

It will be the same next year, and every year thereafter.

[old git]

Various Services of Remembrance were held in Brighton on Sunday morning - as they were in villages, towns and cities throughout the United Kingdom. Most attending will have worn a Poppy.

It will be the same next year, and every year thereafter.

brazil , Youngirish was saying as he walked aroung Brighton he did not see many people wearing the poppy !! he never mentioned anything about community not organising rememberance services.

the whole poppy wearing overkill by uk media is totally over the top every tv show you watch or live programmes it's like you have to wear a poppy or you offend the whole uk population as for james mc clean i can totally understand why he chose not to wear poppy( not going into the politics or history) and must applaud him for having the guts to do it by the way watched 2-3 live soccer games at weekend and alot of the fans in the crowds were not wearing poppy's.

[ArdeeBhoy]

That's as maybe, NB.

But I reckon James McClean is just following a trend. Given the freedom of choice, the majority of British people won't wear one, let alone an Irish nationalist from Doire...
;)

Not because we're not ungrateful to all the Allies who fought v.Nazis (& even feel sorrow for the ordinary soldiers on the other side), but because the likes of the poppy have been hijacked by the Brit.Establishment and far-right to justify their pathetic military forays against people who are no material threat to them.

[Spudulika]

As with wearing ANY charity fundraising stickie, it's purely personal choice. Nobody would berate you for refusing to buy or wear (having bought) a red ribbon, or a yellow daisy etc. Because the UK are heavily involved in existing conflicts, there is a level of awareness of servicepersons being killed/maimed etc, so it is always relevant. However the whole poppy idea just rolls along with the hypocrisy and meeja/government driven manipulation as is seen in Russia when they have their "Victory" day - don't ask anyone whether the victory was over Poland and why the war only lasted from 1941-5. I was in Germany the week before last and was horrified and a little angry to see a rather loud speaking twit walking around Dusseldorf airport wearing a poppy. I met and spoke with a number of other British in other spots subsequently and didn't see a poppy anywhere, even though we discussed WWII and bombing campaigns. I could only consider that this yoke was wearing it before he got on his flight from London and forgot to take it off.

[Not Brazil]

as for james mc clean i can totally understand why he chose not to wear poppy

As I have stated earlier, I uphold the right of James McClean, or anyone else, not to wear a Poppy. That's what freedom of choice is all about.

[Fixer82]

This reminds me, ever so slightly, of 1930s Munich

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKKJb06Elo4

POPPY PRIDE!!!!

[Fixer82]

As I have stated earlier, I uphold the right of James McClean, or anyone else, not to wear a Poppy. That's what freedom of choice is all about.

You have consistently been a voice of reason on this issue and for that I salute you mo chara!

[old git]

As I have stated earlier, I uphold the right of James McClean, or anyone else, not to wear a Poppy. That's what freedom of choice is all about.

fair dues Brazil , it's a pity the media machine in uk cannot see it like that there is alot more problems / issues in uk to be covered by the media than a well paid footballer not wearing a poppy on his football jersey.

[DannyInvincible]

'Sunderland midfielder Meyler defends McClean's poppy decision': http://www.goal.com/en-ie/news/3908/main/2012/11/13/3523702/sunderland-midfielder-meyler-defends-mccleans-poppy-decision


Sunderland midfielder David Meyler has defended team-mate James McClean's decision not to wear a poppy on his jersey for last Saturday’s game against Everton in the Premier League.

The Derry-born winger caused some controversy by not donning the same style shirt, embroidered with the poppy symbol to mark Remembrance Sunday, as the rest of the Black Cats team but Meyler says the incident has been blown out of proportion.

"James is James," Meyler told reporters. "James is his own man, I respect his decision. Obviously, his friends and family were involved in Bloody Sunday so it's understandable.

"A lot of people have blown it up a bit too much. It's not that big of a deal for him. It's a family decision, it's his call and I respect his decision. He's a close pal of mine.

"I think people in England have jumped on the bandwagon a bit too easily and come out and nailed him and hammered him a bit and it's a bit unfair.

"James showed that if you don't want to wear it you don't have to wear it. That was James' decision.

"A lot of other players probably chose to wear them. That's just the way it is and the club don't force you to really do anything."

[Wolfman]

You have consistently been a voice of reason on this issue and for that I salute you mo chara!

On this, yes he's right. But wouldn't agree with his other posts on this.

[SolitudeRed]

I forgot to add that the UVF guy I mentioned had served a life sentence for his part in the murder of 2 brothers he worked with who were killed simply because of their religion yet people see the poppy as a way of remembering him too and it is widely used by loyalist paramilitaries as a symbol of remembrance for their own men and there have been wreaths laid at war memorials in Belfast before by the UVF etc. To be fair though if people want to do that that is fair enough and if they want to then that is fine although they have no right to spew all this vitriol and hatred about those that do not and over the last few days I have seen a lot of crap posted by unionists on fbook about how disgusting it all is that people don't wear it and that they are scum and blah blah. Even discussed the whole McClean situation with a guy who was very critical of McClean and as I have said I can see why people are annoyed like but they need to have a bit of perspective and I put it to him that if you were from the Creggan in Derry you would hardly have much time for the British Army given the things they done there and mentioned bloody sunday, and his response was that anyone that got killed there by the Army deserved it aghast by this I said are you serious and he was and dismissed the finding of the Saville Report etc. Makes you wonder like especially since this guy was young enough and a University student at that! It reflects the whole head in the sand aspect to this though in that they could equally be saying lest we remember in terms of the conscious decision to completely ignore or deny the fact that the British military has not always been the good guy and has perpetrated some terrible acts. Even recently in the case of 5 royal marines who are being charged with murder while on duty in Afghanistan, despite there being video evidence to support the charge there has been a large campaign against any charges being made against.

[paul_oshea]

A lot of the pro-union lads up there, remind me a lot of the israelis living in the settlements in the West bank. And, no, nothing to do with illegal occupation :D I always find it ironic how they play the persecution card at every attempt with reference of WWII - and rightfully so -yet persecute the palestinians on a daily basis.

[Not Brazil]

I have seen a lot of crap posted by unionists on fbook about how disgusting it all is that people don't wear it and that they are scum and blah blah. Even discussed the whole McClean situation with a guy who was very critical of McClean and as I have said I can see why people are annoyed like but they need to have a bit of perspective and I put it to him that if you were from the Creggan in Derry you would hardly have much time for the British Army given the things they done there and mentioned bloody sunday, and his response was that anyone that got killed there by the Army deserved it aghast by this I said are you serious and he was and dismissed the finding of the Saville Report etc. Makes you wonder like especially since this guy was young enough and a University student at that! It reflects the whole head in the sand aspect to this though in that they could equally be saying lest we remember in terms of the conscious decision to completely ignore or deny the fact that the British military has not always been the good guy and has perpetrated some terrible acts.

Well, SR, let this proud and unapologetic Unionist unequivocally tell you that those killed on Bloody Sunday did not deserve it - The Prime Minister of The United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland has made that clear on behalf of the Nation. Many people have lost their lives that didn't deserve it.

Let me also tell you that I wholly acknowledge that the British Military has perpetrated some terrible acts - I struggle to think of any State Military Forces that have not perpetrated some terrible acts in War and conflict.

Those terrible acts do not wash away the debt of gratitude I have for those from our Nation who have laid down their lives in many theatres of War, and continue to do so to this day - that does not mean I agree with some of the Wars they have been asked to fight.

I do not demand that you, or anyone else, has that debt of gratitude. That is entirely your choice.

[Fixer82]

A lot of the pro-union lads up there, remind me a lot of the israelis living in the settlements in the West bank. And, no, nothing to do with illegal occupation :D I always find it ironic how they play the persecution card at every attempt with reference of WWII - and rightfully so -yet persecute the palestinians on a daily basis.

Slightly off topic but yes, I agree. The US should cut off their allowance

[youngirish]

Your son is English....no way YI!!!

He has an Irish passport but he's born and bred in England so I would think he's English. We'll see what he has to say on the matter himself when he's old enough to decide these things.

[DannyInvincible]

The BNP have spoken: http://www.bnp.org.uk/news/national/disgust-premiership-footballer-refuses-wear-poppy


This weekend thousands of people showed their respect for the brave men and women who gave their lives so that we can now be free.

Up and down the country people stood in silence at cenotaph’s, heads bowed in remembrance of the dead.

Premier football teams wore specially designed shirts displaying the poppy, these shirts are to be auctioned off for the poppy appeal, but yet there was one man, James McClean who refused to wear one.

The Londonderry born Republic of Ireland player asked if he could wear a normal shirt as he does not support the poppy appeal.

If this man has chosen to show so much disrespect to the people of this country, we need to ask the question why has he chosen to live here?

Is it because of the thousand of pounds he receives every week in wages?

In my opinion this man is no different to the Muslim fanatics that burnt the poppy two years ago and should be treated with the same contempt as those vile creatures have been.

Let’s hope every football fan in the country shows this bitter little man just what they think of him every time he takes to the field.

Jesus wept.

[Not Brazil]

He has an Irish passport but he's born and bred in England so I would think he's English. We'll see what he has to say on the matter himself when he's old enough to decide these things.

In the meantime, is he called youngenglish?:)

[paul_oshea]

i love NBs use of nation and all other articles and pieces,like above,refer to country.you gotta love the english nd especially the bit about "if he doesnt want to live in this country" well he never wanted to live in the union but ubfortunately its what he calls home you tw@t!!!whether thats england,wales,scotland or the channel islands. And from their perspective Northern Ireland.

[paul_oshea]

In the meantime, is he called youngenglish?:)

Very good NB :D
why cant you thank on andriod mobile or tablet?!

[paul_oshea]

He has an Irish passport but he's born and bred in England so I would think he's English. We'll see what he has to say on the matter himself when he's old enough to decide these things.

how he decides is purely down to you!!

[gastric]

Maybe when your next in London you should visit The Cenotaph in Whitehall.

And how does this relate to my post?

[tetsujin1979]

For the love of God, and the sake of whatever is left of the collective sanity of the board, can we please move the poppy talk to the politics forum?

[gastric]

For the love of God, and the sake of whatever is left of the collective sanity of the board, can we please move the poppy talk to the politics forum?

But Tets, it's a very important issue! :D

[ArdeeBhoy]

Exactly. You can always ignore it.
;)

[The Fly]

Poppycock!

[SkStu]

After reading that BNP statement, Maith an fear Seamus!!

[tricky_colour]

I guess if Simon Cox wore one it would be Poppy Cox?

[Charlie Darwin]

After reading that BNP statement, Maith an fear Seamus!!
I wonder if Nick Griffin will be revising his opinion that the Irish 'count' as white British.

[SkStu]

Just that you seem to be dishing people who actually live and have friends and family in Britain from your lofty position in Canada........:)

Not at all. Read what I posted again. I wasn't dissing - I was saying that I'm not going to change the minds of people who only ever regularly post on eligibility/northern Irish born players threads. I have no interest in trying to change the minds of people whose minds aren't for changing! Waste of time! That's all it was.

By the way, I also have friends and family in Britain but not sure that that is relevant anyway. And it's only lofty because we're sitting on 2 foot of snow!


Hypothetically-speaking, if you were in the public eye and the trend was to wear a poppy if you so wished, would you wear one, and what would be the reasoning behind your decision? Would it be a statement either way? (I won't suggest you might be involved in highly-publicised, politically-sensitive internet argument! :p)

Okay, let me be clear because maybe I'm not being clear. If I decided to wear a poppy just because my teammates were doing it, I would argue that that is less of a "statement" than deliberately going against what my teammates were all doing. Arguably more thought goes into that action therefore it's more of a statement. Just wearing one cos everyone else you know is wearing one is a pretty diluted statement.

Personally, I'd check foot.ie first and then do the opposite of what Paul O'Shea thinks... ;) just kidding Paul! Seriously, I didn't wear one here but then I just don't care enough either way! I'm a lazy b@stard.

[ArdeeBhoy]

A take on James from Manchester.
http://www.afinelung.com/?p=5015

[geysir]

Not at all. Read what I posted again. I wasn't dissing - I was saying that I'm not going to change the minds of people who only ever regularly post on eligibility/northern Irish born players threads. I have no interest in trying to change the minds of people whose minds aren't for changing! Waste of time! That's all it was.

I understand from reading that, that it's important for you to change other peoples' opinions, that you have this idea that your opinions are somehow more right and other peoples' opinions are more wrong. That you are not comfortable with just expressing your opinion on a matter but have the 'itch' to change the other person's opinion, perhaps towards your own point of view. :)

Here, you can express yourself and debate your point and leave it at that. Why on earth do you want to change people's opinions? that's fundamentalism.

[DannyInvincible]

Okay, let me be clear because maybe I'm not being clear. If I decided to wear a poppy just because my teammates were doing it, I would argue that that is less of a "statement" than deliberately going against what my teammates were all doing. Arguably more thought goes into that action therefore it's more of a statement. Just wearing one cos everyone else you know is wearing one is a pretty diluted statement.

I see what you're saying, but rather than brand McClean an ill-informed loudmouth then, couldn't you acknowledge that his club placed him in a very uncomfortable no-win situation? Should he have toed the line, sold out and set himself up for a good shunning in his home community? Perhaps you were the one who was ill-informed?

[peadar1987]

I understand from reading that, that it's important for you to change other peoples' opinions, that you have this idea that your opinions are somehow more right and other peoples' opinions are more wrong. That you are not comfortable with just expressing your opinion on a matter but have the 'itch' to change the other person's opinion, perhaps towards your own point of view. :)

Here, you can express yourself and debate your point and leave it at that. Why on earth do you want to change people's opinions? that's fundamentalism.

Not to nit pick, but who has opinions they don't believe are right? If I didn't think my opinion was right, I'd have a different opinion!

[paul_oshea]

I'm with you guys, I know my opinion is right and the world would be a better place if more people thought like me, granted I might argue more with them.

[tetsujin1979]

I'm with you guys, I know my opinion is right and the world would be a better place if more people thought like me, granted I might argue more with them.
That's what we need, more of you. One is enough.
Some would say, one is too many ;)

[paul_oshea]

One, can never be enough tets :D

[Sullivinho]

A take on James from Manchester.
http://www.afinelung.com/?p=5015

Deliciously sarcastic.

I printed it out and stuck it to my breast. Should make an interesting talking point for the rest of the afternoon.

[dcfc_1928]

Has he quit Twitter again?

https://twitter.com/mcclean23

[tetsujin1979]

Has he quit Twitter again?

https://twitter.com/mcclean23yeah, he closed his account after taking abuse for not wearing the poppy

[SolitudeRed]

Well, SR, let this proud and unapologetic Unionist unequivocally tell you that those killed on Bloody Sunday did not deserve it - The Prime Minister of The United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland has made that clear on behalf of the Nation. Many people have lost their lives that didn't deserve it.

Let me also tell you that I wholly acknowledge that the British Military has perpetrated some terrible acts - I struggle to think of any State Military Forces that have not perpetrated some terrible acts in War and conflict.

Those terrible acts do not wash away the debt of gratitude I have for those from our Nation who have laid down their lives in many theatres of War, and continue to do so to this day - that does not mean I agree with some of the Wars they have been asked to fight.

I do not demand that you, or anyone else, has that debt of gratitude. That is entirely your choice.

I wouldn't doubt that a more level headed individual such as yourself would have a bit more perspective on the issue and I respect peoples decisions to wear and commemorate this if they like however it seems that a lot of peoples attitudes are somewhat more sensationalized and OTT and they seem unable or unwilling to understand why people might not want to wear it and refuse to respect their decision, the whole thing makes me rather uncomfortable and pessimistic about NI as the divide is so deep that there is literally no room for mutual respect among large swathes of the population there. I don't see why the white poppy isn't more widespread as it should be an alternative for those who wish to remember all victims of war including British Military personnel and surely nobody could have issue with that?

[Not Brazil]

the whole thing makes me rather uncomfortable and pessimistic about NI as the divide is so deep that there is literally no room for mutual respect among large swathes of the population there.

I would be more optimistic SR, although it will take a long time for some of the slower learners on both sides of the political divide here.

I think Her Majesty's visit to the Garden Of Remembrance in Dublin last year, and the visit of The Taoiseach and The Tánaiste to Remembrance Day Services in Northern Ireland on Sunday example how mutual respect can be shown and built upon.

There is much in our shared history to reconcile us, and I hope that can be explored in greater detail.

[Charlie Darwin]

I would be more optimistic SR, although it will take a long time for some of the slower learners on both sides of the political divide here.

I think Her Majesty's visit to the Garden Of Remembrance in Dublin last year, and the visit of The Taoiseach and The Tánaiste to Remembrance Day Services in Northern Ireland on Sunday example how mutual respect can be shown and built upon.

There is much in our shared history to reconcile us, and I hope that can be explored in greater detail.
Perhaps in some form of political union :p

[Not Brazil]

Perhaps in some form of political union :p

The South will fade into a big Federal European political union (one of the United States Of Europe) - we'll be remaining in a different kind of political Union.:p

[geysir]

Not to nit pick, but who has opinions they don't believe are right? If I didn't think my opinion was right, I'd have a different opinion!
So anyone who has a different opinion from you is wrong? and the point of discussion is to change the other person's 'wrong' opinion?
And you never ever have discovered later that maybe you were not so 'right' after all?

Pistols at dawn!

[peadar1987]

So anyone who has a different opinion from you is wrong? and the point of discussion is to change the other person's 'wrong' opinion?
And you never ever have discovered later that maybe you were not so 'right' after all?

Pistols at dawn!

I accept in general terms that my opinions might be wrong, and I'm definitely open to changing them but as I said, at the moment, I'm convinced that the specific opinions I hold are right. That's sort of the dictionary definition. If you don't believe it, then it's not your opinion.

The problem isn't believing that your opinion is right, the problem is believing that it can't be wrong.

[paul_oshea]

You sound like a man talking from experience there geysir.

[geysir]

The problem isn't believing that your opinion is right, the problem is believing that it can't be wrong.
I think you missed some context Peadair and have a look at what I was replying to in the first place.

[ArdeeBhoy]

we'll be remaining in a different kind of political Union.:p

Not when Alba leaves...
;)

And no chance of NATO admitting Korea, let alone the EU!!

[tetsujin1979]

thought he tried hard tonight, a little too hard. Seemed to be attempting the difficult too often when a simple option was available

[SwanVsDalton]

Indeed. He was determined to sling the ball in the box at every opportunity but his crossing was poor, at least in the first half when I was watching.