Bohs in financial trouble - FAI Licencing called into question again?

[wonder88]

It is some record for Fenlon to be involved with two famous Irish clubs when they have gone bust, quite a few players have the same distinction as well. If I was a fan I wouldn't give a cent to any of these characters, keep your hard earned money in your pockets lads and support whatever form the 'reborn Bohs' take in the future

[Kildareman]

i know its going of topic but does the location of a clubs stadia matter to its fans .for example is it important that pats are inchiore or bohs shels in tolka doesthat not have the effect of resticting you potential fanbase, and then does it follow that a teams name ie bray, monaghan, restricts you clubs fanbase if you are from a small town or area.
I kmow that it can positive thing in big areas like derry,cork etc.

Station Road's available...;)

[Albatross]

Just Catching up on this Thread, The explanation for Bohs staying within the SCP can be seen in the Accounts filed with the CRO. Bohs had 2M in the bank after receiving monies for Dalymount. In 2008 1M was used to stay within the SCP again the same in 2009. 2M now gone, no funds to rely on for this year so now they are in financial trouble. Simple really but very foolish. Like Shels and Drogheda before them, buy the League title and then go bust. Short ter gain for lon term pain.

[Albatross]

On the matter of Bohs being relegated for Financial irregularities or whatever the FAI will call it. Would we then be entitled to the Prize Money from the FAI for 8th place rather than 9th. So Sligo should get 2nd place Prize money, Fingal 3rd place etc. Its a thought!!!!!!!!

[oriel]

NO, we asked same question last year when we finished 5th, and Derry and Cork were thrown out. Prize money goes as per lge finish on the final day.

[Albatross]

So in fact the FAI are condoning the breaking or their rules and will in fact reward you for doing so. Nice one Mr Delaney!!

[peadar1987]

i know its going of topic but does the location of a clubs stadia matter to its fans .for example is it important that pats are inchiore or bohs shels in tolka doesthat not have the effect of resticting you potential fanbase, and then does it follow that a teams name ie bray, monaghan, restricts you clubs fanbase if you are from a small town or area.
I kmow that it can positive thing in big areas like derry,cork etc.

Well I'm not from Bray town, and I have no problem crossing a county line to get to the Carlisle. I wouldn't mind the club moving in principle, so long as they were still somewhere around Bray, but it doesn't make sense to move away from such a great location, close to the town centre, the DART, and the Luas extension that is coming.

[horton]

It's the bohs fans I feel most pity for. After reading their forum, as much as I admire them for trying hard to save the club, the disregard for the people whos contracts their trying to rip up is shocking. They forget those people have families and rent/a mortgage to pay for. Its funny how the only people they could afford to pay last week were those they want to keep next season.(going by their forums admin)

[Lamper.sffc]

Very funny you should say that. Was thinking this the last night None of the big 4 Dublin clubs identify a particular area in Dublin whereas the the 2 smaller ones (kinda) do.
Shelbourne is not a place (although a road) and just happened to be the winning name of the club on a toss of the coin! It could've been Bath FC!
As a club there would be next to no younger generation people that would even guess we were from Ringsend/Irishtown.

Fecking franchise ;)

[MariborKev]

So in fact the FAI are condoning the breaking or their rules and will in fact reward you for doing so. Nice one Mr Delaney!!

Er, you don't get the prize money.

[Albatross]

So who get it then? or is the the FAI dont pay it out?

[osarusan]

How soon after the end of the league is the money transferred to the clubs? As far as I know, for all their problems, Bohs haven't actually broken any rule yet, and would still be entitled to it. I'm open to correction on that though.

[SkStu]

Bohemian FC confirms that it made a payment to the Revenue Commissioners on Friday (19th November) and is in negotiations on a new schedule of further payments.
Talks are also continuing with the players in contract and the club is hopeful of reaching a settlement shortly.
The club wishes to thank all those many members and supporters who have made contributions and have taken fundraising initiatives. Together, we can overcome the present difficulties and build a sustainable future for Bohemians

[Jofspring]

Bohemian FC confirms that it made a payment to the Revenue Commissioners on Friday (19th November) and is in negotiations on a new schedule of further payments.
Talks are also continuing with the players in contract and the club is hopeful of reaching a settlement shortly.
The club wishes to thank all those many members and supporters who have made contributions and have taken fundraising initiatives. Together, we can overcome the present difficulties and build a sustainable future for Bohemians

I hope this is the main thing Bohs are looking at. Nobody wants any club out of the LOI. If they have to drop down to the first division and rebuild then so be it. Its better than trying to compete in the premier when they are not ready.

[placid casual]

you missed a bit at the end.

"Bohs are continuing an appeal to supporters to lend money to the club that will be repaid on the sale of Dalymount Park as the club tackle their huge debts.


Bohemians need to raise €300,000 through the public appeal to be certain of securing a license to play in the Airtricity League next season."

best o luck with your fundraising. your gonna need it
by the way - dont give them revenue lads anymore than 4%.:wink:

[SkStu]

you missed a bit at the end.

"Bohs are continuing an appeal to supporters to lend money to the club that will be repaid on the sale of Dalymount Park as the club tackle their huge debts.


Bohemians need to raise €300,000 through the public appeal to be certain of securing a license to play in the Airtricity League next season."

best o luck with your fundraising. your gonna need it
by the way - dont give them revenue lads anymore than 4%.:wink:

i didnt leave anything out of it?? http://www.bohemians.ie/news/4-club-news/989-bohs-in-talks-on-taxes.html thanks for the well wishes and yes it will be hard.

I hope so too Osarusan, a future and then a sustainable future are the only things that matter. We shall see what happens.

I just posted the statement because it is as important to recognise the progess being made (no matter how small) in getting out of this mess (no matter how large). It would be a shame if the thread was just about who gets who's prize money or european place when we are extinct as it seems to be lately. It should be about Bohs and the mess we've made and how good or bad a job we're doing of getting out of it.

[Dodge]

No mention of whether Revenue were ahppy with the amount of the payment made?

[SkStu]

well theyre in negotiations regarding future payments so theyre either really happy or really ****ed off.

[White Horse]

Bohemian FC confirms that it made a payment to the Revenue Commissioners on Friday (19th November) and is in negotiations on a new schedule of further payments.
Talks are also continuing with the players in contract and the club is hopeful of reaching a settlement shortly.
The club wishes to thank all those many members and supporters who have made contributions and have taken fundraising initiatives. Together, we can overcome the present difficulties and build a sustainable future for Bohemians

In other words:

"Bohemians have failed to pay the tax bill due to the Revenue this week. They hope that the Revenue will take pity on them and allow the liability to be carried forward".

[Charlie Darwin]

No mention of whether Revenue were ahppy with the amount of the payment made?
I think the Revenue would be happy with any payment from a big creditor these days. Negotiation is par for the course in these situations - they've been pretty flexible with individuals recently and I'd imagine large companies would be given as much or more leeway.

[The Lep]

I have all the respect for all the fans that is working hard to raise money to save the club and was willing to give a few quid when asked earlier but i refused when the chap that was collecting money made his feelings known about Sporting Fingal in a disrespectful manner. Its fair enough if the chap dislikes Fingal but when he is trying to raise some funds isnt the time to make them feelings known. If i get approached again then i'd have no bother giving them a few quid in support of them being saved and be in the league next year .

[BohsPartisan]

In other words:

"Bohemians have failed to pay the tax bill due to the Revenue this week. They hope that the Revenue will take pity on them and allow the liability to be carried forward".

Businesses all over the country are defaulting on tax payments. It's standard practice for revenue to give a bit of leeway. Especially considering we have always been up to date with our payments before.

[orielabu]

"I think the revenue would be happy with any payment from a big creditor these days"
How big is big? Anyone know the Bohs tax liability?

[paudie]

I think the Revenue would be happy with any payment from a big creditor these days. Negotiation is par for the course in these situations - they've been pretty flexible with individuals recently and I'd imagine large companies would be given as much or more leeway.

I'd imagine they'd be flexible once Bohs can convince them they are cutting costs back enough they can pay Revenue off over 12 or 24 months. Of course if Bohs have a crap team next year their income will fall so it's a vicous circle.

Hopefully Revenue won't decide to liquidate in order to get their hands on the ground to clear the debt.

[pineapple stu]

Especially considering we have always been up to date with our payments before.
Why have your recent accounts shown a significant charge to "Interest on overdue tax" so?

[horton]

I hope they do give leeway, but considering Cowens just agreed a huge EU bailout (slightly less than 100 billion euro :rolleyes:) My bet is the Revenue will be after the keys to Dalymount. Has there been any progress with the 14 still under contract?

[Charlie Darwin]

The bailout is irrelevant here - the Revenue doesn't really answer to the government.

[marinobohs]

The bailout is irrelevant here - the Revenue doesn't really answer to the government.

Spot on CD. Revenue is independent of Govt ( it is called "Commission" because it has an independant board and does not report on day to day activities to a Minister). There is provision in revenue legislation for staggered payments of arrears and it would be nothing unusual. I do recall that the interest rate charged was prohibitive so deferral is not a good idea (some years since I worked there so may be changed).
There is however a much harder line taken than there was when shams ran into trouble and any possibility of a "4%" type deal is extremely unlikely so it will be up to Bohs to convince Revenue they can stick to an agreed payment shedule or else......
This change has nothing to do with the current financial difficulties in the country and much more to do with Rev Comm getting sick of LOI clubs defaulting on tax payments.

[pineapple stu]

Just Catching up on this Thread, The explanation for Bohs staying within the SCP can be seen in the Accounts filed with the CRO. Bohs had 2M in the bank after receiving monies for Dalymount. In 2008 1M was used to stay within the SCP again the same in 2009. 2M now gone, no funds to rely on for this year so now they are in financial trouble. Simple really but very foolish.
Just saw this by the way; it's complete nonsense. Cash in the bank doesn't count towards the 65% rule. Bohs received a payment for the ground in 2008 and 2009, which was added in to their income, so meaning they could spend more. And in 2009, they basically stayed under 65% by buying and selling the same bit of land.

[peadar1987]

Just saw this by the way; it's complete nonsense. Cash in the bank doesn't count towards the 65% rule. Bohs received a payment for the ground in 2008 and 2009, which was added in to their income, so meaning they could spend more. And in 2009, they basically stayed under 65% by buying and selling the same bit of land.

Has that loophole been closed though? Surely a club who were really suicidal could always find a creative way to overpay their players, and still technically stay below the cap

[shantykelly]

Has that loophole been closed though? Surely a club who were really suicidal could always find a creative way to overpay their players, and still technically stay below the cap

two contracts. and pray they don't talk.

[pineapple stu]

Well, Bohs were only under 65% if you add in the E150k they got from selling the option on the ground, which they'd just bought back (exact details in the accounts). So the loophole was evidently there last year anyway; don't know if it's been closed since, but I doubt it.

So yes, a really suicidal club has plenty of ways and means still.

[Sean South]

Wipe that jizz of your computer screen Stu

[Mr A]

Bohs statement saying they've paid the revenue for October:

http://www.bohemians.ie/news/4-club-news/992-revenue-payment-made.html

[pineapple stu]

No mention again of how much was paid, so we can probably assume it wasn't the full E105k.

[orielabu]

FINANCIAL REPORTING

An interesting commentary on how the Football Conference rides shotgun on its member clubs:-


http://www.twohundredpercent.net/?p=9992


Is there any prospect of the National League clubs becoming subject to such a regime and in particular to an attitude from the governing body of “taking no prisoners in affecting sanctions towards those that do not play ball.”
It would certainly make a change from the current attitude of “look the other way and it’ll be all right in the end”.

[marinobohs]

No mention again of how much was paid, so we can probably assume it wasn't the full E105k.

Yep, down payment and discussions on a payment shedule as far as I know (dont know down payment)

[Albatross]

Just saw this by the way; it's complete nonsense. Cash in the bank doesn't count towards the 65% rule. Bohs received a payment for the ground in 2008 and 2009, which was added in to their income, so meaning they could spend more. And in 2009, they basically stayed under 65% by buying and selling the same bit of land.

Of cource Cash in bank is not counted as income for 65% rule but it does become income in the accounts when it is transferred to P&L as Misc. Income rather than sale of Property as was done in 2008 and 2009. If you take the time to look at the accounts for 2007 the club had cash reserves of 2M by the end of 2009 the reserves were gone with no capital expenditure. Therefore the 2M the club got was used to stay within the SCP. That's all I said. Depending on the Memo and Articals of Association, only if the club is constituted to trade in property can the revenue be used as income.

[pineapple stu]

No, the cash is gone because they lost it. Your post makes no sense. The SCP works on the P&L, not cash. The cash flow works on cash, but isn't the basis for the SCP.

[peadar1987]

No, the cash is gone because they lost it. Your post makes no sense. The SCP works on the P&L, not cash. The cash flow works on cash, but isn't the basis for the SCP.

I love it when you talk dirty Stu! ;)

[marinobohs]

Of cource Cash in bank is not counted as income for 65% rule but it does become income in the accounts when it is transferred to P&L as Misc. Income rather than sale of Property as was done in 2008 and 2009. If you take the time to look at the accounts for 2007 the club had cash reserves of 2M by the end of 2009 the reserves were gone with no capital expenditure. Therefore the 2M the club got was used to stay within the SCP. That's all I said. Depending on the Memo and Articals of Association, only if the club is constituted to trade in property can the revenue be used as income.

Although the land deal with Albion was not done with the purpose of circumventing the 65% rule, P Stu is correct that the monies received could be classed as income for the purposes of the 65% rule and could/did raise income levels accordingly. whether in the absence of this we would have fallen foul of 65% rule is a moot point as (presumably) we would have had to take other action to ensure compliance but on the figures at year end it is fair to say that sum kept us within the 65% rule parameters.

I am not sure if the rule has been amended (very much doubt it) As I understand it rules can be changed in Licencing process at short notice, sometimes without telling anyone :rolleyes:.

[Charlie Darwin]

It would depend on who owned the money and how it was classed. If it was a loan or cash injection from the directors it could be classed as income. If it was just transferred from the club's own account then no.

[marinobohs]

It would depend on who owned the money and how it was classed. If it was a loan or cash injection from the directors it could be classed as income. If it was just transferred from the club's own account then no.
Money was income as it came from Albion (development company) to Bohs. The money was not previously property of Bohs or anyone assosiated with Bohs.

[Ezeikial]

Although the land deal with Albion was not done with the purpose of circumventing the 65% rule, P Stu is correct that the monies received could be classed as income for the purposes of the 65% rule and could/did raise income levels accordingly. whether in the absence of this we would have fallen foul of 65% rule is a moot point as (presumably) we would have had to take other action to ensure compliance but on the figures at year end it is fair to say that sum kept us within the 65% rule parameters.

I am not sure if the rule has been amended (very much doubt it) As I understand it rules can be changed in Licencing process at short notice, sometimes without telling anyone :rolleyes:.

Pure comedy gold.

I suspect that you have to search really hard to find a gullible (others then at Bohs) who would actually believe this.

[SkStu]

business in possibly exploiting administrative loophole shocker!

[SwanVsDalton]

Or, more accurately, Bohs fan in drastically understated and misleading financial comment bombshell.

[SkStu]

Derry fan with hypocritical contribution regarding financial propriety of another club ...

(and so on) ;)

[SwanVsDalton]

Derry fan with hypocritical contribution regarding financial propriety of another club ...

(and so on) ;)

Headline: Foot.ie thread descends into worthless snip...oh right I see what you're getting at....

[Albatross]

No, the cash is gone because they lost it. Your post makes no sense. The SCP works on the P&L, not cash. The cash flow works on cash, but isn't the basis for the SCP.

Stu must be a civil servant, no need to have any financial acumen, he knows the f****n tax payer will always bail him out. The IMF are coming to get you!!

[pineapple stu]

No, I'm an accountant, which is why I know you're talking crap.