View Full Version : Bohs in financial trouble - FAI Licencing called into question again?
Spudulika
20/01/2011, 1:04 PM
The PFAI have been damaged beyond belief by their inconsistency and lack of truth telling. Clubs are the same, even players and coaches are in the same boat. So all in all the LOI gets what it deserves and it allows disgruntled/misguided/passionate (all the same) supporters to debate endlessly what is right and wrong. So long as all clubs who finished last year start this year, that's the most important.
The PFAI have been damaged beyond belief by their inconsistency and lack of truth telling.
damaged in the eyes of who? Fans who have no dealings with them, clubs who always hated them?
Players are obviously more than happy with their recent work, otherwise they wouldn't be putting up with it
Spudulika
20/01/2011, 1:36 PM
damaged in the eyes of who? Fans who have no dealings with them, clubs who always hated them?
Players are obviously more than happy with their recent work, otherwise they wouldn't be putting up with it
Fair point, I'd clarify it by saying a little of all, but more the middle bunch. They're a necessary evil, but lack credibility.
horton
20/01/2011, 11:38 PM
Is the interview going to be on RTE live or do I need to read the drivel on the Bohs message board about what gets said?
Dodge
20/01/2011, 11:44 PM
Jaysus fellah, they barely cover games live never mind press conferences
horton
20/01/2011, 11:51 PM
You never know, with all the pessimism in the Dail and the state of the economy, it would be an entertaining change in the news!
Longfordian
21/01/2011, 10:22 AM
Press conference cancelled on the specific request of John Delaney who's getting involved in the situation personally.
btid1
21/01/2011, 10:26 AM
damaged in the eyes of who? Fans who have no dealings with them, clubs who always hated them?
Players are obviously more than happy with their recent work, otherwise they wouldn't be putting up with it
I would be inclined to agree with Spudulika.Credibility is very important to any union.They have lost theirs.That said i don't think if I was a pro footballer I would want someone of Stephen McGuinness's calibre representing me.He is a very weak union official.
On your other point of players being happy with the PFAI, I wonder should the "wind up 2" be successful in their endeavour (lets hope not) will the remaining players at Bohs be happy that the PFAI have essentially supported the winding up of their employer.In essence ensured they are out of a job.
Jicked
21/01/2011, 10:28 AM
Press conference called off after John Delaney personally intervenes in the matter. Was it last season Bohs fans were claiming it was a FAI conspiracy to shaft them? I see a few weeks ago that had changed to Shamrock Rovers "orchestrating" events to screw over Bohs, so perhaps that will become the party line now they may be saved by the FAI.
osarusan
21/01/2011, 10:30 AM
On your other point of players being happy with the PFAI, I wonder should the "wind up 2" be successful in their endeavour (lets hope not) will the remaining players at Bohs be happy that the PFAI have essentially supported the winding up of their employer.In essence ensured they are out of a job.
Why do you keep pretending that the 2 players actually want to wind up the club when it's obvious that they just want their money and see this as a way of forcing Bohs to pay them?
For them, being 'successful in their endeavour' means getting the money they're legally entitled to. nothing else.
now they may be saved by the FAI.
get real Jicked. We're hardly being saved by the FAI.
Yet.
Why do you keep pretending that the 2 players actually want to wind up the club
true enough. It was McGuinness' idea.
The Lep
21/01/2011, 3:13 PM
And you know that to be 100% accurate do you Stu?
Longfordian
21/01/2011, 4:20 PM
The latest suggestion from Dan McDonnell is that the FAI are promising "future prize money" to go the players to get them to call off their action. Negotiations are apparently ongoing.
The Lep
21/01/2011, 4:24 PM
MEDIA NOTICE
PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALLERS’ ASSOCIATION OF IRELAND
Friday 21 January 2011
NEGOTIATIONS ON-GOING
Due to on-going negotiations between the parties there will be no further announcement until Monday 24 January 2011.
Stephen McGuinness
General Secretary
Professional Footballers' Association of Ireland
The Lep
21/01/2011, 4:27 PM
The latest suggestion from Dan McDonnell is that the FAI are promising "future prize money" to go the players to get them to call off their action. Negotiations are apparently ongoing.
The only prize money they can give is the money for last place in the premier or whatever division they start in which wouldnt be enough anyway. Didnt they get money last year in the same way?
And you know that to be 100% accurate do you Stu?
You again...
yeah, i forgot that Shelley was an expert in company law and Grey a well known labour law professional.
Out of interest, whose idea do you think it was?
Lim till i die
21/01/2011, 5:10 PM
The latest suggestion from Dan McDonnell is that the FAI are promising "future prize money" to go the players to get them to call off their action. Negotiations are apparently ongoing.
http://andyhoward.ca/liss/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/Maple-Fudge-2.jpg
It's the most wonderful time of the year.
shantykelly
21/01/2011, 5:11 PM
skstu, as mkev said, gray has been there, done that, as have a few of the other players involved in the whole mess, specifically the previous players signed from Derry. You only have to look at what happened to Wellvan and the number of people who got shafted on that; once bitten twice shy and all that. agree with the lads taking a tough stance, but (not knowing whats been going on behind the scenes!) i do think that they may have been premature in petitioning for a winding up order.
on a side note, what would have been the reaction of boh's fans (or even just the ones on here) if it was a supplier of many years loyalty to the club that pushed for the order over non-payment? would there be the same level of vitriol that has noticeably been directed at gray and shelley? to me, a player is an employee of the club, they're paid to provide a service to the club (and yes, i know gray was injured for most of the season; hardly through choice though), and they have by and large done that. players arent fans, acting as if they are is pointless in the extreme.
hopefully youse can get your house in order and not go the way of the dodo. always enjoyed the trips to dalymount that i managed to make.
SwanVsDalton
21/01/2011, 7:11 PM
On your other point of players being happy with the PFAI, I wonder should the "wind up 2" be successful in their endeavour (lets hope not) will the remaining players at Bohs be happy that the PFAI have essentially supported the winding up of their employer.In essence ensured they are out of a job.
Yeah they'd get pretty miffed at the PFAI alright, what with their circumstances changing from 'not getting paid' to 'not getting paid'.
The Lep
21/01/2011, 9:39 PM
You again...
yeah, i forgot that Shelley was an expert in company law and Grey a well known labour law professional.
Out of interest, whose idea do you think it was?
You post on a football board that it was McGuinness' idea. But the truth is you only assume it was his idea. Have you forgotten that they have a solicitor ?
Dont be posting things you cant prove to be true.
Whats with the "You again"?
MariborKev
21/01/2011, 10:06 PM
You post on a football board that it was McGuinness' idea. But the truth is you only assume it was his idea. Have you forgotten that they have a solicitor ?
Dont be posting things you cant prove to be true.
Whats with the "You again"?
Whoever came up with the idea doesn't really matter, the fact that the PFAI/McGuinness pulled the strings to allow it be hosted in Abbotstown shows that he was more than happy to agree with it.
The whole idea of a union having their offices with the FAI is a whole other thing which needs looked at.
Dodge
22/01/2011, 12:06 AM
A deal agreed by then Union chief Fran Gavin, who's now...
Buile Shuibhne
22/01/2011, 12:20 AM
The whole idea of a union having their offices with the FAI is a whole other thing which needs looked at.
I've been saying that since we first got the tour at the first fans forum out there in Abbottstown.
You post on a football board that it was McGuinness' idea. But the truth is you only assume it was his idea. Have you forgotten that they have a solicitor ?
Dont be posting things you cant prove to be true.
Whats with the "You again"?
Gilhooley is the PFAI solicitor. McGuinness is the Union rep. Unions like to go legal. Between the two of them they figured this out. My main point was it was not the players. Its really not that difficult.
The "you again" reference is also pretty straightforward.
Ezeikial
22/01/2011, 9:47 AM
I imagine that the most likely scenario is that the tactic of the court action was suggested by the PFAI (Gilhooley / McGuinness) but was obviously agreed to by the players involved. In that sense it is really irrelevant who actually suggested it.
While it would certainly be preferable not to take an action with such potentially drastic consequences, the reality of it is that the action required to ensure an avoidence of a winding up order is in the hands of the Bohs board.
I certainly would not like to see Bohs wound up, but I have a grudging admiration for the tatic employed by the players/PFAI, which I believe significantly increases their prospects of getting paid sooner rather then later.
Jicked
22/01/2011, 10:50 AM
What a club. Meanwhile over on GypoWeb they're not bothered by this fact but just giving out about Pete Mahon whinging. Incredible
Dispute to rumble on into next week
Irish Times
The dispute between Bohemians and their remaining senior players will rumble on into next week after a day of talks yesterday, overseen by FAI chief executive John Delaney and League director Fran Gavin, failed to produce a settlement between the two sides.
Despite a lack of face-to-face meetings between the two sides, club officials described the process as having been “positive” and suggested progress had been made.
They said they were available to re-enter talks whenever required, but in a brief statement issued last night, the PFAI said they did not expect any further announcements to be made before Monday.
The dispute, over the terms in which nine players can agree to forfeit the remainder of their contracts with the club, has been going since the end of last season and a number of the players affected have been angered by the terms that have been on the table – equivalent to 13 weeks’ net pay – as well as the club’s inability to pay what they were offering until the past week or so.
Two players, Steven Gray and Brian Shelley, have initiated legal action aimed at having the club wound up in an attempt to secure some of their back pay, but the club have insisted any such payment must count towards the final severance settlement.
The ongoing problems have prevented Pat Fenlon from assembling a squad for the coming season and the Bohemians boss has been working for the past few weeks with a squad comprised mainly of last year’s under-21 squad along with a handful of senior players, who, it seems, will most likely not be around come the start of the season.
At Richmond Park, however, Pete Mahon says he has been angered by reports Bohemians have been approaching players about joining for the coming campaign before the current situation is resolved.
“I’m going by what I’m reading in the papers here,” he said. “But if it’s true it seems wrong to me that they can be looking to sign players before they have sorted out the lads who are already at the club.
“Having said that I hope that Pat does manage to put a good squad together in the end because the league needs a strong Bohemians.”
Mahon confirmed the signing of midfielder Paul Crowley yesterday along with the re-signing of Dave Mulcahy.
The deals bring to 17 the number of senior players at the club for the new season, with Daryl Kavanagh, Brian Shorthall and the McMillan brothers, David and Evan, the other new recruits.
The Dubliners are now looking at signing two players from England, although two of the three possible targets are currently on trials with other clubs.
“We feel that we’ve done fairly well in the close season and these lads would probably be the end of it if we got them. If we did, we’d have a strong squad and while Shamrock Rovers and Sligo Rovers (who have been linked with a move for Bohemians winger Killian Brennan) are most people’s favourites for the league, we’d certainly like to feel we can improve on the fifth we managed last year.”
Also according to that same messageboard, Bohs are training in Carton House, with established pros like Heary, Oman, O'Connor, Barry Murphy and Madden being led by Pat Fenlon and Liam O'Brien.
I guess their logic is that if they just get in to the Europa League group stages this year all their problems are over. How could anyone, even Bohs fans, possibly think badly of Shelley and Grey after this.
osarusan
22/01/2011, 12:47 PM
http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2011/0122/bohemians.html
FAI could lend Bohemians money
The FAI could lend Bohemians money to pay their players and help the Dalymount Park club secure a future in the League of Ireland.
.....
The Irish Independent claims the FAI could now pay the players the money they are owed and the footballing body would then deduct any future prize money Bohemians win to claim back the cash.
Are we talking about prize money for last place (which has happened before) or something more than that?
srfc1928
22/01/2011, 1:40 PM
its on their forum that they are training at Carton House, nice.
Everyone deserves a bit of luxury now and again.
D.24saint
22/01/2011, 1:42 PM
If is just a general loan then the whole thing has stooped even lower imo, no way should the FAI bail out bohs.It would be a huge two fingers from the FAI to every club who did their business right last season and open a can of worms.
The Lep
22/01/2011, 2:19 PM
Gilhooley is the PFAI solicitor. McGuinness is the Union rep. Unions like to go legal. Between the two of them they figured this out. My main point was it was not the players. Its really not that difficult.
The "you again" reference is also petty .
Fixed that for you. You have no proof to say 100% that it was the idea of Mcguinness. You now say that your point was that it wasnt the idea of the players yet you have been out about them in taking the action they did. Make your mind up stu.
I know enough about unions from my own work to understand how they work.
.
The Lep
22/01/2011, 2:22 PM
its on their forum that they are training at Carton House, nice.
Everyone deserves a bit of luxury now and again.
If it was good enough for real madrid it must be good for Bohs. :)
Town Legend
22/01/2011, 2:41 PM
I have to say when I heard Bohs were in huge financial difficulties I had a wee chuckle to myself. I remember all them years ago when the deal was mentioned about Dalymount been purchased and Bohs matching Man City in the bank satements! They played us in Flancare that weekend and all their supporters were in the stand waving euro notes and singing Abba's 'money, money, money'. Instead of claiming they had lots of it I think now they were actually looking for some money!
passinginterest
22/01/2011, 4:01 PM
Played the Bohs fans team today in the UCL, I reckon it was good prep for their step up to the A League :)
re Carton House, we are not paying for it. Jicked why dont you get your insider (whats his name - ah yes, the Whistleblower) to log in to the members forum and get the full facts for himself and share them here instead of half the story?
Fixed that for you. You have no proof to say 100% that it was the idea of Mcguinness. You now say that your point was that it wasnt the idea of the players yet you have been out about them in taking the action they did. Make your mind up stu.
I know enough about unions from my own work to understand how they work.
.
I work with 5 different Unions on a daily basis myself. I also have a pretty good insight into what they are like and what motivates them. I'll ask you again, who's idea do you think it was? Not that it really matters i suppose.
You might think my statement was petty but i find you following me around this forum like a homeless mutt pretty annoying so forgive me if i call you out on it.
poster
22/01/2011, 5:29 PM
re Carton House, we are not paying for it.
How can Bohs get a place like Carton for free!? :eek:
At Richmond Park, however, Pete Mahon says he has been angered by reports Bohemians have been approaching players about joining for the coming campaign before the current situation is resolved.
“I’m going by what I’m reading in the papers here,” he said. “But if it’s true it seems wrong to me that they can be looking to sign players before they have sorted out the lads who are already at the club.
.
again - the player he is talking about is Stuey Byrne and looking to sign him on amateur/part-time terms. Not everything is a screw up. We have to have players to put on the pitch next year and if we can get Byrne for cheap then wheres the problem?
Jicked
22/01/2011, 6:01 PM
again - the player he is talking about is Stuey Byrne and looking to sign him on amateur/part-time terms. Not everything is a screw up. We have to have players to put on the pitch next year and if we can get Byrne for cheap then wheres the problem?
After everything that has gone on at Bohs, when people hear from that they "have to put out eleven players of some description, so why not Heary, Stuey Byrne, Barry Murphy, Ken Oman, Paddy Madden and coached by Pat Fenlon and Liam O'Brien" it gives the impression that the mentality at Bohs hasn't really changed at all. Replace that lot with available underage, A Championship or First Division players and spare everyone another Johnny Logan fundraising gig.
again, your twisting things and omitting facts to give yourself and others that impression whilst ignoring the other aspects of the story. It suits your agenda so, fair play, i do the same myself with Rovers. Hopefully it is as transparent to most as i think it is.
Jicked
22/01/2011, 6:35 PM
In what way am I doing this?
Bohs are financially in dire straights, yet seem to be intending to put together a squad of established LoI players that would look like being part of a contending or top-half team (Heary, Oman, Murphy, possibly Byrne et al) and are employing one of the leading managers.
Everyone understands that these players and staff will be on reduced terms from last year (although was Fenlon's deal ever re-negotiated?) but paying anything for such players instead of whatever can be cobbled together for almost nothing gives the impression that Bohs aren't in an incredibly prevarious financial position.
I don't think that's twisting facts or trying to spin a story in a particular way.
Martinho II
22/01/2011, 6:39 PM
I thought Stewie Byrne had retired ,its his own perogative if he is going to bohs as player coach. I dont understand where is Pete Mahon is coming from as he is no longer a pats player!
PartySaint
22/01/2011, 6:52 PM
I thought Stewie Byrne had retired ,its his own perogative if he is going to bohs as player coach. I dont understand where is Pete Mahon is coming from as he is no longer a pats player!
Just to be clear, Pete never mentioned Stuey Byrne, Bohs fans just THINK thats who he is talking about
In what way am I doing this?
Bohs are financially in dire straights, yet seem to be intending to put together a squad of established LoI players that would look like being part of a contending or top-half team (Heary, Oman, Murphy, possibly Byrne et al) and are employing one of the leading managers.
Everyone understands that these players and staff will be on reduced terms from last year (although was Fenlon's deal ever re-negotiated?) but paying anything for such players instead of whatever can be cobbled together for almost nothing gives the impression that Bohs aren't in an incredibly prevarious financial position.
I don't think that's twisting facts or trying to spin a story in a particular way.
because - you should wait and see what these players are costing us and what the new wage structure the club has implemented is like. It is, with a couple of exceptions, part-time/amateur wages. As Rovers should know it is actually a clubs market at the moment. In other words, the wages that players have been paid across the league have reduced dramatically. The economic implosion has lead to a scenario where these wages have dropped even more. It is possible to sign players like Stu Byrne, Owen Heary and some of the others you listed on what are otherwise considered first div wages. They are no longer premier players and they realise that too.
Where you do possibly have a point is re Fenlon and i have been calling for him to be let go purely from a financial view point. However, he is under contract. It is a large contract. If we break it it is another settlement that has to be made. If we do retain PD status then who better than Fenlon to keep us up with our ragtag assortment of young fellas, a couple of decent players and experienced has beens. He also has sell-on/compensation value and cross-channel clubs have him on their radar. So there is a justification that can be made there too.
Another aspect is that the funds we have raised that are presently tied up are expected to finance the cost of resigning some of the 7 players who we are negotiating a settlement with (as well as the settlement itself) so they are, in essence, paid for and that is based on them re-signing on "drastically reduced terms" - the players words.
All im saying is it is not as black and white as you are painting it to be. Lets see what comes out of the wash over the next few week, thats all.
Just to be clear, Pete never mentioned Stuey Byrne, Bohs fans just THINK thats who he is talking about
out of interest, have you heard anything different yourself PS?
PartySaint
22/01/2011, 7:27 PM
out of interest, have you heard anything different yourself PS?
Pete was talking about Stuey Byrne at the Patron Saints meeting on Wednesday night, he said that Stuey told him he was retiring and he was surprised to see him go over to the thing in Norway, that was it. I reckon he is talking about more than one player tbh
I have no problem with what Fenlon is doing tho, yous will need players lined up for when all the messy stuff is over
CuanaD
22/01/2011, 8:26 PM
Pete was talking about Stuey Byrne at the Patron Saints meeting on Wednesday night, he said that Stuey told him he was retiring and he was surprised to see him go over to the thing in Norway, that was it. I reckon he is talking about more than one player tbh
I have no problem with what Fenlon is doing tho, yous will need players lined up for when all the messy stuff is over
& Stuey was interviewed by The Star AFTER Norway, he said that he is retiring , as at 34 he needs to concentrate on his (non-football) work & that playing part-time hinders that. It would need to be a good offer to keep him from his business for another season & he hasn't had any such offer (by the time of the interview).
The Lep
22/01/2011, 9:59 PM
re Carton House, we are not paying for it. Jicked why dont you get your insider (whats his name - ah yes, the Whistleblower) to log in to the members forum and get the full facts for himself and share them here instead of half the story?
I work with 5 different Unions on a daily basis myself. I also have a pretty good insight into what they are like and what motivates them. I'll ask you again, who's idea do you think it was? Not that it really matters i suppose.
You might think my statement was petty but i find you following me around this forum like a homeless mutt pretty annoying so forgive me if i call you out on it.
Dont flatter yourself stu, its a forum where you can reply to post made by others same like the way you keep replying to me especially on the Fingal thread.
As who's idea it was , i dont care who it was but it was a dam good idea.
SkStu
22/01/2011, 10:42 PM
Fingal has a forum? Trust me, ive never been on it.
The Lep
22/01/2011, 11:29 PM
Read it again :) .
Hairy Bowsie
23/01/2011, 1:44 PM
http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2011/0122/bohemians.html
Are we talking about prize money for last place (which has happened before) or something more than that?
This is the same FAI who would lend Cobh Rambers money not so long ago because of it being an unfair advantage over other teams. What a joke they are.
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