Bohs in financial trouble - FAI Licencing called into question again?

[Mr A]

i think every forum has their loonies in fairness!!

Wibble.

[SkStu]

It really does seem like the vast majority over there.

over where? I cant see where your pointing!

[Mr A]

Winding Up order to be lodged tomorrow morning according to RTE News: http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2011/0112/bohemians.html

[Red4Eva]

http://twitter.com/#!/McDonnellDan/status/25328405310349312

Anyone have any ideas who that might be?

[Charlie Darwin]

Liam Neeson.

[Dodge]

http://twitter.com/#!/McDonnellDan/status/25328405310349312

Anyone have any ideas who that might be?

Its Warren Parkes. ex Athlone, Bohs, Pats

[Ezeikial]

The Evening Herald article contains an amazing quote from a Bohs spokesman, contending that the club have no case to answer in relation to the proposed High Court action from two players:

http://www.herald.ie/sport/soccer/just-eight-return-as-bohs-future-hangs-in-balance-2493015.html





By Aidan Fitzmaurice

Wednesday January 12 2011

JUST EIGHT senior players were due to report for the first day of pre-season training with Bohemians today as the Dublin club continue their desperate efforts to stay in business.
Bohs insist that they can meet head-on a threat from two players to have the club wound up over the non- payment of wages, a threat which is hanging over the club today as a 21-day deadline for settlement of the club's debts to the two expired yesterday with no payment from the club.
"We have spoken to our solicitor and we are confident that we have no case to answer in relation to the two players," a club spokesman said today.
The two were to decide today whether to seek a winding-up order.
One of the pair appeared to be backing down in the past 24 hours and was initially happy to row in with his team-mates in their bid to get their back-wages paid without going to court, but he had a change of heart yesterday and is heading for the courts to pursue the winding-up order.
The debt-ridden Gypsies, league champions in 2008 and 2009, have spent the past three months trying to work out a deal which will see most of their remaining contracted players leave -- seven out-of-contract players have already left Dalymount.
The club have also fallen behind in wage payments to the players under contract and most of the other players are now owed six weeks' wages.
Redundancy
Bohs appealed to their members to take part in a loan scheme, the cash raised set aside to fund what is effectively a redundancy scheme to get the contracted players off the wage bill.
The club are reportedly close to reaching their target -- in the region of €270,000 -- and hope to make up a shortfall by the end of the week, with a meeting between the club and the player's union, the PFAI, planned for next Sunday or Monday.
If Bohs do not pay the players what they are owed, or at least have come to an arrangement with them about a pay-off, by the January 31 deadline, the club would be in danger of being denied a licence to play in the Premier Division -- and even the First Division -- for the coming season.
Manager Pat Fenlon had asked his remaining players to report back at the club at noon today for the first day of their pre-season programme -- and 10 youngsters will fill out the squad.
The two players who threatened the winding-up order will be absent, while three players who live outside the capital were expected to not show up as they have no home in Dublin.
- Aidan Fitzmaurice

[Spudulika]

Isn't Aidan Fitz Bohs fan?

[Spudulika]

Listening to Stephen McGuinness - Bohs have the money but won't pay. Yet they claim they haven't heard from anyone. It's very odd. Then again, it's Irish football.

[iceman]

Yeah , just heard McGuinness on Morning Ireland. He said that Bohs are now in funds (got a loan yesterday from the FAI on the strength of their European prize money due in July) and that the amount owed to the two players involved was about €4k.
When asked to name the players he said they would be named in the High Court today.

[hoopy]

Listening to Stephen McGuinness - Bohs have the money but won't pay. Yet they claim they haven't heard from anyone. It's very odd. Then again, it's Irish football.

No disrespect to the lads on here but it wouldn't be beyond the realms of possibility, judging on past occurences, for Bohs members to be fed a pack of s**t by their board and believe it.

[thischarmingman]

So what's the worst case scenario for Bohs that could happen today?

[iceman]

Dont think anything will happen today other than the winding-uppapers will be lodged in the High Court.
A date for hearing will then be set (probably 2-3 weeks time)
They could of course avoid this by paying the two players what they are owed.

[pineapple stu]

The Evening Herald article contains an amazing quote from a Bohs spokesman, contending that the club have no case to answer in relation to the proposed High Court action from two players:
Way to build bridges with your staff there. Incredible comment.



So what's the worst case scenario for Bohs that could happen today?
You can't call yourself a LoI fan and not know the intricacies of winding up orders by now! :p

[Mr A]

Bohs super confident ahead of court proceedings? We've heard that before....

RTE take on this: http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2011/0113/bohemians.html


The two players who are taking high court action againt their club are owed a little short of €10,000 it is believed. The club wishes to resolve the wage payments owed to all ten players - not only the two taking legal proceedings - and according to The Irish Times, will continue to pursue that method of resolving the issue.

Usually I've no little time for the PFAI but if half what is said in the above piece is true it's hard to blame them for taking this action.

[pineapple stu]

RTÉ Sport understands that a portion of prize money owed to Bohemians has been paid to it by the FAI.
This is the prize money the FAI were withholding because Bohs didn't hand over Ireland match ticket proceeds, isn't it?

[thischarmingman]

You can't call yourself a LoI fan and not know the intricacies of winding up orders by now! :p

Co-efficients, UEFA lux requirements, FAI licencing minutia, wages as 60% of income, seating rquirements...there's a lot of stuff you get to learn about when you're a LOI fan- sometimes it's difficult to remember it all.

[Dodge]

You need a degree in accountancy, a masters in law and a doctorate in psychology.

A basic understanding of the game is preferred but optional

[thischarmingman]

Having a UCD fan on hand to explain things in tedious detail usually helps too.

:p

[btid1]

This is the prize money the FAI were withholding because Bohs didn't hand over Ireland match ticket proceeds, isn't it?

FAI have denied thatn they have transferred any money to Bohs.

Looks like McGuinness is talking through his hole AGAIN!!

[pineapple stu]

Where'd you see that?

[Dodge]

FAI have denied thatn they have transferred any money to Bohs.

Looks like McGuinness is talking through his hole AGAIN!!

I'd believe McGuinness over the FAI and/or Bohs every single time.

[btid1]

I'd believe McGuinness over the FAI and/or Bohs every single time.

Ye, because he has no self interest in this whatsoever and his record is 100% reliable in these matters.

[pineapple stu]

And Bohs and the FAI have no self-interest in a matter concerning the FAI bailing Bohs out, and their record in general is 100% reliable, yeah?

[crc]

wages as 60% of income... sometimes it's difficult to remember it all.
I thought it was 65%; looks like I need to go on a refresher course!! :P

[Dodge]

Ye, because he has no self interest in this whatsoever and his record is 100% reliable in these matters.

No, because whatever percentage you assign to him it's at least double that of the combined Boihs/FAI score.

I found it HILARIOUS that a Bohs spokesmen said they had 'no case to answer' when they clearly hadn't paid the players. What else could they answer with?

[Dodge]

BTW in the Indo there's this quote from Bohs
"If Stuart Gilhooley is referring to the receipt of prize money fromt he FAI then this is a very small amount of money "

Which means that McGuinness was right. Bohs got prizemoney from the FAI.

[btid1]

the FAI bailing Bohs out,

Really, is this happening????

Brilliant I need not bother worrying anymore then.The day is saved thanks to the FAI!!!

How, pray tell, have the FAI bailed Bohs out oh knowledgable one?

[pineapple stu]

Because they've clearly suddenly paid Bohs money to help with these debts, when previously they had been holding on to the money because Bohs owed the FAI ticket receipts.

Can I ask again where you saw that the FAI have denied giving Bohs any money?

[SkStu]

so you really do want Bohs to go under then P-Stu? If you object so vehemently to the receipt of prize money (which by McGuiness' estimaions ranges between 4k and 10k) and are so disgusted at this "bailing out"...

You dont have a shred of decency about you -

[pineapple stu]

I don't want Bohs to go under, and I've expressed no disgust over the FAI advancing Bohs money. However, btid claimed that McGuinness was "talking through his hole AGAIN" about the FAI advancing Bohs cash, and I called him up on being wrong about that. I really don't see why the need for hysterics.

[SkStu]

its hardly hysterics. Im just disappointed that you cant hide your glee a bit better.

[pineapple stu]

And I'm disappointed that showing a Bohs fan to be wrong is taken up as "glee", "hardly a shred of decency", "object[ing] so vehemently" and "want[ing] Bohs to go under"

Do you actually read posts, or do you just react a set way to anything at all critical of anything to do with Bohs?

[SkStu]

and how anyone can say that McGuinness or Gilhooley come out of this looking good is beyond my comprehension.

Encouraging players to wind up a club with over 120 years of tradition while inviting other creditors to join the action over, how much? Somewhere around 4k according to Foundation Level McGuinness. Its scumbaggery of the highest.

[pineapple stu]

and how anyone can say that McGuinness or Gilhooley come out of this looking good is beyond my comprehension.

Encouraging players to wind up a club with over 120 years of tradition while inviting other creditors to join the action over, how much? Somewhere around 4k according to Foundation Level McGuinness. Its scumbaggery of the highest.
How dare people chase money they're owed, especially in this day and age. They should be willing to sleep naked on the street for the privelege of playing for Bohs.

[Longfordian]

Bohs will end up being stuck with all the legal costs as well. Given it's such a relatively small amount what the hell is the problem?

[SkStu]

this shouldnt be the subject of a winding up order.

[pineapple stu]

If all other channels have been exhausted, why not? It's not as if this was a surprise to Bohs. The players have them plenty of notice. It's a perfectly legal and acceptable course of action.

[SkStu]

How dare people chase money they're owed, especially in this day and age. They should be willing to sleep naked on the street for the privelege of playing for Bohs.

i was talking specifically about McGuinness encouraging players to take this course of action.

Why would McGuinness say that we have done nothing to try and raise money to save our club. The club has been fundraising and exploring all its options non stop since sh1t hit the fan.

Also, what about the other PFA players that McGuinness represents at Bohs who would lose their jobs if Bohs are wound up as a result of him pushing the agenda of two greedy opportunists?

[SkStu]

If all other channels have been exhausted, why not? It's not as if this was a surprise to Bohs. The players have them plenty of notice. It's a perfectly legal and acceptable course of action.

in a totally ethically void way? Yes.

[pineapple stu]

The sh!t hit the fan years ago; when the High Court case was lost, to be precise. Bohs and Bohs fans have not been fundraising and exploring options non-stop since then; only since the club ran out of cash. Two very different things.

If the players haven't been paid despite issuing public warnings to the club to pay them, then I don't see why McGuinness shouldn't encourage his members to take a perfectly legal course of action. If the club has been fundraising so much, and has received money from the FAI, and if the debt is so small, why not just pay it?

The other PFAI members aren't being paid anyway, so I don't see how it matters whether the company that isn't paying them is wound up or not. If the ground is worth so much more than Bohs' debts, the players will just get paid out of the proceeds as well. Possibly for the full contract too; don't know how football contracts work (slightly different to regular contracts cos of the fixed term and lack of redundancy availability).

And I don't know how you can have the gall to criticise Bohs' players' ethical behaviour. in light of what Bohs have done to them. That's a quite mond-bogglingly blinkered comment.

[John83]

in a totally ethically void way? Yes.
Ethically void? Is that like when you sign a contract with someone saying you'll give them a certain amount of money for certain services when you don't have that money? Bohs can't claim the moral high ground here.

[L.T.F.C.]

and how anyone can say that McGuinness or Gilhooley come out of this looking good is beyond my comprehension.

Encouraging players to wind up a club with over 120 years of tradition while inviting other creditors to join the action over, how much? Somewhere around 4k according to Foundation Level McGuinness. Its scumbaggery of the highest.
There isn't a good enough facepalm image for this.

[SkStu]

And I don't know how you can have the gall to criticise Bohs' players' ethical behaviour. in light of what Bohs have done to them. That's a quite mond-bogglingly blinkered comment.

thats my prerogative.

The Bohs board has a plan to raise the money. It explained this plan to the members and to the players and assured the players that they would be paid 1) when the club has negotiated an agreement with ALL the players, not just the two players and 2) when it is in a position to pay ALL the players. Also, to be fair to the Board, they are close to reaching one of the targets set.

For McGuinness to encourage the two players to pre-empt this so that the club woul lose what little bargaining power it has is pretty despicable. Theres far more at play than either side is willing to say. Ill leave my contributions to this thread at that.

[pineapple stu]

The Bohs board has a plan to raise the money.
Yeah, a plan will pay the bills. Clearly the players don't believe in this plan. Can you blame them?


not just the two scumbags
An absolute disgrace of a comment. People looking to get what they're owed are scumbags now? You're not on the Bohs forum now; rational thought exists here, and comments like that are, I think it's fair to say, not welcome.


Also, to be fair to the Board, they are close to reaching one of the targets set.
What's your source for this? You quite often come out with comments like this which belie the fact that you're in Canada and are very far away from the action. Are you basing it on Bohs press releases? Or newspaper articles written by Bohs fans? Have you actually considered what's being written or do you just pick up on what you want to hear?

[SkStu]

Yeah, a plan will pay the bills. Clearly the players don't believe in this plan. Can you blame them?

If they dont believe it, they dont believe it. Do i have to like that fact or their means to address this? No.


An absolute disgrace of a comment. People looking to get what they're owed are scumbags now? You're not on the Bohs forum now; rational thought exists here, and comments like that are, I think it's fair to say, not welcome.

edited - because, you are right this is not the bohs forum.


What's your source for this? You quite often come out with comments like this which belie the fact that you're in Canada and are very far away from the action. Are you basing it on Bohs press releases? Or newspaper articles written by Bohs fans? Have you actually considered what's being written or do you just pick up on what you want to hear?

i have friends inside and around the club who i speak with on a somewhat regular basis. I get a fairly good picture of what is going on. But as im not a member i cant take everything i read or am told as gospel and i know that. I do know that things are more complicated than posters on here would like others to believe.

[Dodge]

this shouldnt be the subject of a winding up order.

Couldn't agree more SkStu

All it takes is Bohs paying them and its over

[Ezeikial]

this shouldnt be the subject of a winding up order.

Agree totally - it should have been paid

[SkStu]

Couldn't agree more SkStu

All it takes is Bohs paying them and its over

well maybe Dodge... but its also not really that simple which is what im trying to say. If Bohs pays Shelley and Grey then wont it just be more likely to result in a swathe of similar applications?

McGuinness: "Want your money before we can collectively strike a deal (which by the way is my duty as your Union rep)? Just apply to have them wound up."

So then 8 players are looking for money that the club (possibly) would not have.

[Magicme]

I despair as to how Bohs fans can feel that their club is hard done by when the players gave them plenty of opportunity to sort things. I feel sorry for the fans and don't want to see club go under but if they don't pay their employees they have no excuses.