View Full Version : Bohs in financial trouble - FAI Licencing called into question again?
El-Pietro
24/02/2011, 5:03 PM
actually we got rid of our "old board" long ago. Despite the nonsence often posted on here the two Gerrys are long gone from the board. Unlike Cork, however, we didnt wait until the club went out of business to make the necessary changes :rolleyes:
we spent an entire season trying to get him to leave, or give us some control.
HulaHoop
25/02/2011, 4:49 PM
Rumour on the Bohs forum that their financial director has resigned as the club went over the budget he set while he was away on holidays. Must be a wind up but you never know with Bohs.
Longfordian
25/02/2011, 4:59 PM
B Stand is a long time poster on there. I don't think he'd make it up. Let's face it would you be surprised if it were true with Fenlon still about?
de bowez
25/02/2011, 6:27 PM
B Stand is a long time poster on there. I don't think he'd make it up. Let's face it would you be surprised if it were true with Fenlon still about?
Fenlon isnt on the board.
Longfordian
25/02/2011, 6:50 PM
Fair point it is up to the board to decide how much to spend but it's not hard to imagine Fenlon kicking up a fuss and looking for more cash.
de bowez
25/02/2011, 7:00 PM
The budget is still down 80% or so since Sean Connors season in charge. Fenlon can take zero blame for any of the financial difficulties at Bohs. The guy actually put ridiculous hours in at the club, went around collecting to get an overnighter for an away trip to Derry a few seasons ago, made the Carton house training happen, plenty of stories of people heading up to the club to buy merchandise and Fenlon being the one that went out of his way to get the shop open.
Longfordian
25/02/2011, 7:21 PM
So that's how ye get in under the 65% rule, he has numerous jobs!
sundance kid
26/02/2011, 12:46 PM
So, is the bohs budget still 250k for the year?
doesnt look like it. I wont be defending this one any more anyway. Can any Rover fan tell me if Denis Maher is on their list of season ticket holders?
Ezeikial
26/02/2011, 5:50 PM
doesnt look like it. I wont be defending this one any more anyway.
I am not gloating or having a dig at you, but I am glad that you seem to be seeing the reality.
I have long suspected that you were defending stuff on here that you had serious reservations about (Fianna Fail minister style), and I both understand and respect why you would feel the need to defend the club you care passionately about, against perceived attacks on here.
Of course the points debated (or points scored) on here doesn't necessarily matter a whole pile - it's what ordinary (and extraordinary) Bohs Members and Supporters think and believe that really matters.
The reality is that the Bohs board is split hopelessly (and has been for some time). There are power struggles continually going on in the background, former board members have a pivotal (and ego based?) influence on policy and strategy. Amid all this posturing and deceit a recklessness has become endemic, and it now appears that this influence is pervailing. You only need to look at the record of lies that have been peddled both to the members and the general public through the media.
The arrogance of this is to be seen clearly in the '€500 wage cap' and '€250k budget' - it is just so outlandish a claim that it is an insult to intelligent people that have clearly worked tirelessly to fund-raise for the club to try to keep it afloat.
Unless the supporters and members act soon in relation to the board, I fear that Bohs will be lost to this league soon
I wish Bohs supporters clear heads and good vision at a crucial time for your future as a club
hoops1
26/02/2011, 6:44 PM
Rumour on the Bohs forum that their financial director has resigned as the club went over the budget he set while he was away on holidays. Must be a wind up but you never know with Bohs.
That has to be a wind up.
There is no way Bohs have a financial director.
The reality is that the Bohs board is split hopelessly (and has been for some time). There are power struggles continually going on in the background, former board members have a pivotal (and ego based?) influence on policy and strategy. Amid all this posturing and deceit a recklessness has become endemic, and it now appears that this influence is pervailing. You only need to look at the record of lies that have been peddled both to the members and the general public through the media.
The arrogance of this is to be seen clearly in the '€500 wage cap' and '€250k budget' - it is just so outlandish a claim that it is an insult to intelligent people that have clearly worked tirelessly to fund-raise for the club to try to keep it afloat.
the problem is that there was a 250k playing budget set and that this appears to have been broken by the nefarious influences you mention in the first paragraph i quoted. I am dismayed and embarrassed by my own apparent naivety and I will not put a penny more into that club anyway if the latest rumours are true. The survival of the club is obviously up to the members at this stage. We gave the club a second chance and it looks like they fcked it back at us.
Ezeikial
27/02/2011, 2:09 PM
I notice Garry Doyle in the News of the World today says Bohs budget is "roughly €300k".
It seems that Journos, who should know better, will just keep regurgitating whatever the latest yarn is that the Dalymount spin-doctors believe will be swallowed by the gullible.
de bowez
27/02/2011, 2:48 PM
Most Bohs fans will agree that the original budget of 250k was too high, seems it is be double that now although that probably includes Fenlon and backroom staff.
this was posted on the Bohs forum 15 minutes ago. I am only posting this here to stop the usual Rovers chancers from posting it and claiming any sort of insider knowledge.
I do not understand the financial options to opposing the process. Maybe someone who works in that sector could advise on how members and supporters should proceed? The significance of the supporters trust should not be underestimated IMO.
We are a members club in name only.
At the time of the last loan I pointed out that this loan could act as a mechanism to control the future direction of the club, in terms of assets and policy. I also asked whether a deal had been done to sell the ground because unless there had, what was being proposed didn't make any sense.
Any meaningful role for the membership in the decision making process is being removed systematically and upheld by the control of information. It's a takeover, plain and simple.
The amount of debt we build up increases the control anyone who can service the debt has over the club. Because of the value that Dalymount has to any future owner, the amount of debt that can be built up is huge and it is still financially viable. Why else would this ridiculous policy of overspending be pursued again? It's only a political football.
There is still a bumper pay day in store for anyone who services our debt, in turn increasing their control over the club and our assets. Even €4m is minimal in comparison to what Dalymount is/ will be worth.
The people who loaded debt onto our club are using that debt as a means of taking over the club.
What does this mean for the future of the club? Bohemians will survive. Dalymount will be sold, we will have a private owner and a ground will be built in a field beside a motorway for a fraction of Dalymount's selling price. To add insult to injury, the people who presided over this swindle will be hailed as heroes.
The threat of Bohs going out of business will be used as a scare tactic throughout this process. It will be used as moral currency against dissent. It will be used as an instrument to disrupt any meaningful discussion about the medium term impact of the decisions which are being put in place.
I don't know how this process can be stopped. If anyone has the ability ( and 'support' base) to assume a position of authority on the board then please throw your hat in the ring. Our club is being taken from us.
The meetings are a farce. The important decisions are being made without our consent and then being packaged as something completly different - lies, bull**** and big numbers. They are very skilled at controling the room and letting the discussion wander to items of far lesser importance. The majority of the debate at meetings is centred on what little information we've been dripfed or something completely irrelevant.
geezer
29/03/2011, 10:02 PM
is the same old rubbish that goes on at a lot of clubs, all you need is 2 or 3 lads that can interpret a set of accounts and a bit of experience. Im sure there are a few fans capable of this. Then keep asking regardless of how stupid your questions are portrayed as and be persistent over a 3 to 4 months and you will build details of what really is going on.. If the club is really open ask for a 3 man delegation to be allowed inspect the returns submitted monthly to the fai over the last 3 years, ask for a look at the statements file, a look at the bank statements and track the cash movements. Use whatever audited accounts are available as these are generally skewed to confuse any layman but if you keep digging, if you can run a household budget, put together a set of club accounts, income and expenditure by payment not by category and you will begin to see whats really going on.
No matter how big the hole is it can be tackled but establishing the hole is always difficult at clubs not because of information that can be got in any office but because of individuals using deflection stories and rubbish.
Id advise any bohs supporters to start digging, establish whats really owed and put a plan in place to tell the truth and address it over ten years or twenty if you have too and never ever allow people not to produce detailed income & expenditure accounts (its possible to protect salary information by bundling that up) but thats where id stop everything else should be open to all members
Supporters Trusts are good at establishing these open principles and encouraging the stupid questions which invariably end up being the questions that unlock the true goings on
Ive heard it at many meetings club, regional and fai level, oh you cant ask that, it naive to ask that. It rubbish always ask and keep asking never accept a treasurers report, chief executive, or finance officers report at face value if your gut feel is different. If a voluntary organisation, a club is so open get worried if barriers are being put up and dont tolerate it. Keep asking, storing and filing the answers, keep asking. keep asking
Charlie Darwin
30/03/2011, 12:27 AM
this was posted on the Bohs forum 15 minutes ago. I am only posting this here to stop the usual Rovers chancers from posting it and claiming any sort of insider knowledge.
Not exactly sure of the context here, but you're basically being Kilcoyned by stealth?
Ezeikial
30/03/2011, 12:57 AM
The post re-produced by SkStu from the Bohs forum raises some apocalyptic possibilities for Bohemians in its current format as a members club
I have always thought that the mis-management at Bohs over the last number of years was simply inepititude fueled by ego and arrogance of a number of key directors (marshalled by de facto directors no longer on the board) and cheered on by manipulated members and supporters happy to gorge themselves on ignorance and trophies in equal measure.
The current spending and deceit at Bohs is so perverse that, on hindsight, it was inevitable that some enlightened Bohs supporters would start to question if this was motivated more by some concerted plan to profit from taking over the club by a group of insider individuals, rather then sheer recklessness and incompetence of those elected to the board.
I have no idea if the theories discussed on the Bohs forum (and it is frightening reading for anyone who cares about the club) have any basis - but Bohs members and supporters really need to take every possible step to address this.
Surely the way forward is for the Gypsies Supporters Trust to show leadership in getting the transparency that is necessary, and if so required to wrestle control away from the megalomaniacs or profiteers who may have infiltrated your club.
Any right thinking supporter of any rival club would surely not want to see Bohemian FC suffer a potentially worse fate then the Kilcoyne afflicted Shamrock Rovers.
Bohs fans - don't just talk about it, take action!!
sundance kid
30/03/2011, 9:07 AM
I have always thought that the mis-management at Bohs over the last number of years was simply inepititude fueled by ego and arrogance of a number of key directors (marshalled by de facto directors no longer on the board) and cheered on by manipulated members and supporters happy to gorge themselves on ignorance and trophies in equal measure.
That just about sums up bohs perfectly for me.
RIP Bohs
http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/bohs-stock-plummets-as-financial-headache-takes-its-toll-2886834.html
Lim till i die
25/09/2011, 3:53 PM
Just 80 people in attendance would worry me there.
How are the budgets out by 120 grand for the last 6 weeks or whatevers left :bulgy:
geezer
25/09/2011, 5:01 PM
only just over 70 bohemians fans made the trip to Galway last friday as well, It was the smallest Bohemians crowd in years
Spudulika
25/09/2011, 6:20 PM
I'd love to know if the reporting by the Indo was as flawed as it was in relation to the Dundalk situation last week? I love the LOI and it's clubs for the neverending stream of bad publicity we give out.
PartySaint
25/09/2011, 7:31 PM
I'm just shocked it wasn't a Rovers fan who posted the link
I'm just shocked it wasn't a Rovers fan who posted the link
little victories at this stage PS... :(
sundance kid
25/09/2011, 8:26 PM
I was on the 39 bus one day last week, and two bohs fans in front of me were going on about 451 and 433. Nice to see lads taking an interest in how their team lines up i thought, but alas, they were arguing over the big clubs average attendance.
placid casual
25/09/2011, 10:41 PM
It was a bandwagon:wink:
BonnieShels
26/09/2011, 5:40 AM
I thought the 451 went from Phibsboro to Tallaght.
The 433 is the express bus from the Airport to UCD that leaves 5min after the plane from Sligo lands.
John83
26/09/2011, 4:18 PM
The 433 is the express bus from the Airport to UCD that leaves 5min after the plane from Sligo lands.
It's stopped running, sadly. We used to park it in front of goal. Now look at us, shipping 4 or 5 goals every other match.
Shano Mac
03/10/2011, 9:35 AM
When are Zurich owed their money?
Dave_SRFC
06/10/2011, 9:57 PM
Did Bohs buy a player from Zurich? Was he worth the money?
marinobohs
07/10/2011, 8:28 AM
Did Bohs buy a player from Zurich? Was he worth the money?
.....and how many contracts did he sign ? :cool::cool::cool:
legendz
07/10/2011, 9:06 AM
Bohs supporters on other forums seem to fear the real prospect of the end of the club. Is that a real possibility?
pineapple stu
07/10/2011, 9:11 AM
Yes. Same way it was for Cork and Derry and Limerick. Only difference is the ground would go with the club.
sundance kid
07/10/2011, 9:17 AM
.....and how many contracts did he sign ? :cool::cool::cool:
Do you mean the standard player/groundsman contract that bohs use, or are you still clinging to the hope that Rovers, who are miles under the 65% rule, are paying Gary Twigg on two contracts?
A face
07/10/2011, 11:20 AM
Yes. Same way it was for Cork and Derry and Limerick. Only difference is the ground would go with the club.
It would have been great if there were safeguards put in place to prevent the clubs using the actual ground to bail them out of trouble. It would be great if there was some sort of a civic trust setup to prevent that happening, rife with problems to be overcome i'm sure but better than the current situation.
It would have been great if there were safeguards put in place to prevent the clubs using the actual ground to bail them out of trouble. It would be great if there was some sort of a civic trust setup to prevent that happening, rife with problems to be overcome i'm sure but better than the current situation.
Don't necessarily agree - there was nothing wrong with their plan to sell up and move out to Blanch, it's their timing that was awful. Being a members club, it's not like this was done above the supporters heads.
pineapple stu
07/10/2011, 11:51 AM
it's their timing that was awful.
Dunno if it was even the timing that was the main problem - that had nothing to do with them selling part of the ground twice and being drunk at the meeting where the ground was sold the second time. The directors took a lot of flak in the court judgement, as I recall. That's the major problem.
Obviously it doesn't help now that no-one wants to buy the ground and that the original buyers are happy to want out.
legendz
07/10/2011, 2:22 PM
What is the story with the ground? Is it sold, not sold, owned by Bohs or not? Where was the new area Bohs were to relocate to?
What is the story with the ground?
he hee he.
Is it sold, not sold, owned by Bohs or not?
All, and none, of the above. Twice
Where was the new area Bohs were to relocate to?
Harristown
A face
07/10/2011, 6:22 PM
that had nothing to do with them selling part of the ground twice and being drunk at the meeting where the ground was sold the second time.
What happened here?
its largely irrelevant at this stage but it was a small tract of land that was sold over a boozy lunch by our esteemed leaders at the time. It was the first time we sold it by the way, not the second (wow do i feel stupid correcting this!)... it was that sale and our failure to produce complete title when we tried to sell the whole property that delayed and ultimately ended the deal going ahead. Idiotic.
A face
07/10/2011, 7:23 PM
its largely irrelevant at this stage but it was a small tract of land that was sold over a boozy lunch by our esteemed leaders at the time. It was the first time we sold it by the way, not the second (wow do i feel stupid correcting this!)... it was that sale and our failure to produce complete title when we tried to sell the whole property that delayed and ultimately ended the deal going ahead. Idiotic.
I wouldn't mind the 'boozy lunch' the first time as long it was a measured decision, but without the excuse of a boozy lunch the second time, thats where the glaring problem was. Its a pity, because it sounded like a good deal at the time.
marinobohs
11/10/2011, 10:06 AM
I wouldn't mind the 'boozy lunch' the first time as long it was a measured decision, but without the excuse of a boozy lunch the second time, thats where the glaring problem was. Its a pity, because it sounded like a good deal at the time.
"measured" is the perfect term A FACE, as it was actualy the size of the tract of land that caused all the subsequent problems (I dont get it either). The land Albion claimed to have a right/option over included a small portion of land subsequently covered by the Danninger deal, and it was this that prevented completion (with Danninger).
Latter deal certainly was the best option but once it went south the club were always in big trouble.
"measured" is the perfect term A FACE, as it was actualy the size of the tract of land that caused all the subsequent problems (I dont get it either). The land Albion claimed to have a right/option over included a small portion of land subsequently covered by the Danninger deal, and it was this that prevented completion (with Danninger).
Latter deal certainly was the best option but once it went south the club were always in big trouble.
big trouble because we spent money before we had it. Despite knowing that we didnt own it.
'kin hell.
Dave_SRFC
11/10/2011, 6:48 PM
big trouble because we spent money before we had it. Despite knowing that we didnt own it.
'kin hell.
Serious question do Bohs fans think they'll have a club to support in the LOI next season?..or whats the best you can hope for?
the best i hope for is to have a club to support next season. Unlikely unless we are rescued as we have shown we cannot rescue ourselves.
Serious question do Bohs fans think they'll have a club to support in the LOI next season?..or whats the best you can hope for?
No I don't anyway.
Best we can hope for is a miracle.
marinobohs
17/10/2011, 3:48 PM
Serious question do Bohs fans think they'll have a club to support in the LOI next season?..or whats the best you can hope for?
Might survive but a lot of "ifs and butts". Need to see out this season (pay commitments to season end). Sort out the ungodly mess that is Dalymount/Zurich and finalise life after Dalymount.
other than that all is fine......:rolleyes:
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