Bohs in financial trouble - FAI Licencing called into question again?

[Macy]

Ireland qualify for the euros. FAI buy Dalymount. They then force a groundshare with Shels. Bar and Car Park either go to pay back the FAI, or into a ground management company a la Lansdowne.

Surely even Delaney isn't dumb enough to let Dalymount go for €4million, or less?

[BonnieShels]

Oh the horror.

Don't underestimate the power of Delaney to act the maggot.

[sundance kid]

[QUOTE=Macy;1551076]Ireland qualify for the euros. FAI buy Dalymount. QUOTE]

Is it 1988 all over again? Talk about history repeating itself.

[Macy]

Is it 1988 all over again? Talk about history repeating itself.
I wouldn't be thinking they'd be allowed to get ownership back again though.

[Straightstory]

Ireland qualify for the euros. FAI buy Dalymount. They then force a groundshare with Shels. Bar and Car Park either go to pay back the FAI, or into a ground management company a la Lansdowne.

Surely even Delaney isn't dumb enough to let Dalymount go for €4million, or less?

Quite like this idea. If Dalymount goes to developers, Irish football really will have lost it's soul.
We don't have much, but we have our history.

[Dodge]

Until Cobh sue them for not agreeing to the sme deal with St Colmans...

[legendz]

Dalymount used to hold internationals, that could be cited as a unique reason to keep it in Irish football if possible.

[nigel-harps1954]

Surely theres room to fix up Dayler too? Has all the potential to be a second international ground again if done up.

[Dodge]

Dalymount used to hold internationals, that could be cited as a unique reason to keep it in Irish football if possible.
its what they used the first time anyway

Its pretty moot though as I don't think the FAI have the money to do it, even with the Euro2012 cash.

[marinobohs]

their legal rep is also on their board and is one of the reasons they are in it up to their necks.

If the ordinary decent bohs fans dont throw out the charlatans running their club, at the egm, then they deserve to see their 120 year old club die..
And that is exactly what will happen.no dalymount sale.no financial rescue package.
just dead.like the dodo. and drums.

Legal rep you refer to is NOT on the board and has not been for years Nor is he currently our legal representative :). Removing the current Board will not remove the deficit (unfortunately) and they cannot be removed anyway at an EGM. Bohs is 121 years old.
Other than that PC your post was as spot on as ever (unfortunately accurate about us being "in it up to our necks" mind you :()

[S.E.P.1990]

As much as I hope Bohs sort out their problems (despite the waving of euro signs at us from their fans following our demotion....:mean:) I sincerely hope the answer is not ground sharing with Shels and certainly not in Dalyer. Am fond of the stadium, but not fond of having to walk up past the pavement dancers who are always hanging around on match nights.

Straightstory is right, Dalyer is an historic ground which should stay (if possible) in the footballing family. However, if it comes to a choice between some bricks and mortar and the continuation of a football club........

[Dodge]

Not stirring here but whats the deal with Tolka. What other options would Shels have?

[S.E.P.1990]

Not stirring here but whats the deal with Tolka. What other options would Shels have?
AFAIK we will be there for another 4/5 seasons, Ossie Kilkenny owns the lease and basically lets us stay there for now. This means the club is putting no money into the ground at all, we also have no money for getting a new ground. Not sure what the future holds to be honest, I know that the idea of groundsharing with Bohs should be appealing but there is fierce opposition to it.

[nigel-harps1954]

AFAIK we will be there for another 4/5 seasons, Ossie Kilkenny owns the lease and basically lets us stay there for now. This means the club is putting no money into the ground at all, we also have no money for getting a new ground. Not sure what the future holds to be honest, I know that the idea of groundsharing with Bohs should be appealing but there is fierce opposition to it.

Theres always Morton ;P

[S.E.P.1990]

Theres always Morton ;P
Not too sure travelling to Scotland for games is financially prudent.........:D

[marinobohs]

AFAIK we will be there for another 4/5 seasons, Ossie Kilkenny owns the lease and basically lets us stay there for now. This means the club is putting no money into the ground at all, we also have no money for getting a new ground. Not sure what the future holds to be honest, I know that the idea of groundsharing with Bohs should be appealing but there is fierce opposition to it.

Shels have absolutely no security of tenure atTolka and only got a licence last season because they had a backup arrangement with Dalymount. That is the reason they (rightly) have letTolka fall into disrepair.
Given planning issues and/or lack of development Tolka may be around awhile longer but no guarantees and if anyone made O.K. an offer......... :bye:

[S.E.P.1990]

Shels have absolutely no security of tenure atTolka and only got a licence last season because they had a backup arrangement with Dalymount. That is the reason they (rightly) have letTolka fall into disrepair.
Given planning issues and/or lack of development Tolka may be around awhile longer but no guarantees and if anyone made O.K. an offer......... :bye:
All True MB, common consensus at this stage seems to be that it'll be 4-5 years before anything can be done with Tolka so we are sitting there and keeping our heads down I think!

[marinobohs]

All True MB, common consensus at this stage seems to be that it'll be 4-5 years before anything can be done with Tolka so we are sitting there and keeping our heads down I think!

Shuuuuuuush S.E.P. ! dont tell anyone :cool:

[Schumi]

Shels have absolutely no security of tenure atTolka and only got a licence last season because they had a backup arrangement with Dalymount. That is the reason they (rightly) have letTolka fall into disrepair.
Given planning issues and/or lack of development Tolka may be around awhile longer but no guarantees and if anyone made O.K. an offer......... :bye:How much would Kilkenny want for Tolka? Could Bohs sell Dalymount and buy Tolka with the money left over after paying the loan off? :D

[nigel-harps1954]

How much would Kilkenny want for Tolka? Could Bohs sell Dalymount and buy Tolka with the money left over after paying the loan off? :D

Question is, would they want Tolka? Surely with the money from the sale of Dalymount they could build a reasonable stadium with money left over?

[Eminence Grise]

Would a sale and leaseback arrangement over 25-35 years be possible?

[Longfordian]

Question is, would they want Tolka? Surely with the money from the sale of Dalymount they could build a reasonable stadium with money left over?
Again goes back to how much someone will pay knowing how desperate Bohs are. The FAI are the only possible party who'd take into account footballing interests and as Dodge said I don't think they have the money Euros or no Euros. Every penny they get will be going to what they owe on the Aviva. Maybe if they got to the World Cup in 2014 they might have a few quid but can't imagine Zurich being persuaded by that possibility somehow.

[Macy]

How much would Kilkenny want for Tolka? Could Bohs sell Dalymount and buy Tolka with the money left over after paying the loan off? :D
What extra money? Doubt any developer will even give them the full amount owed to be honest.

I'm sure tongue was in cheek Dodge, but if Cobh had a case, wouldn't the precedent have been set with the first time the FAI bought Dalymount, or United Park (and doing improvements to bring it up standard)?

[Dodge]

Tongue was in cheek, but I think the FAI used licensing as a coer for not helping out Cobh at the time too

ie it wouldn't be fair to others who had to fund their own ground repairs/maintence etc to keep in line.

Not 100% on that though

[derm]

Would a sale and leaseback arrangement over 25-35 years be possible?

It is possible but a sale and leaseback agreement that would also cover the 4 million debt would be miraculous.

[marinobohs]

How much would Kilkenny want for Tolka? Could Bohs sell Dalymount and buy Tolka with the money left over after paying the loan off? :D

After paying the debts off I doubt Bohs AND Shels combined could put together enough to buy Tolka never mind pay for the necessary repairs/maintenance.
Some possibility of a sale and leaseback for Dalymount working but would probobly need Shels involved (and maybe Pats when Kelleher moves on :o) to make it viable.

Presumes that there is a buyer out there with the money to spend that wants to "sit" on the site or that club(s) would generate enough income to pay off leaseback arrangement

[Mr A]

If I recall correctly Tolka is zoned recreational isn't it? Wouldn't that make it relatively cheap to buy?

I know people out there know that Bohs are pretty desperate, but at the same time it's still a chunk of land relatively near the city centre and maybe they can still move it on.

Although of course it would be saved.

[marinobohs]

If I recall correctly Tolka is zoned recreational isn't it? Wouldn't that make it relatively cheap to buy?

I know people out there know that Bohs are pretty desperate, but at the same time it's still a chunk of land relatively near the city centre and maybe they can still move it on.

Although of course it would be saved.

Not sure what Tolka would cost but it would need serious investment if club(s) were to take it on. Right now would be a great result for Bohs to somehow aquire Tolka.

[Buile Shuibhne]

Shels have absolutely no security of tenure atTolka and only got a licence last season because they had a backup arrangement with Dalymount. That is the reason they (rightly) have letTolka fall into disrepair.
Given planning issues and/or lack of development Tolka may be around awhile longer but no guarantees and if anyone made O.K. an offer......... :bye:

This is the accurate version:


"There's a lot of debts," says Casey. "The debts are with the old company, Accolade, that was parked when we took over. That company has the asset in Tolka Park. You're talking about millions of debts and that will only be satisfied when the leasehold interest is gone.

"The way the property market is at the moment, I don't know when that's going to be. There is a contract of sale there (with Coneforth -- a consortium led by businessmen Jerry O'Reilly and Ossie Kilkenny) but there is no appetite to close it at the moment because the funds aren't there."

Considering that Casey expects to be in Tolka for at least three years, then the club will always be restrained by the scale of what they owe. "Other clubs liquidated their companies and started afresh, Derry and Cork," he explains. "We could have and walked away from all the creditors, but that didn't happen. They understand the situation. They will be paid when the ground is sold. "If the original price that's in the contract is satisfied, there would be a surplus. But I don't think that contract will be satisfied now. I think it will be a lower price."

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/showpiece-clash-gives-shels-brief-respite-from-battling-legacy-of-excess-2926601.html

[Acornvilla]

Bohs may go find yer man who just dug athlone out and do some begging

[Lim till i die]

Got a text, Motion 4 defeated 50 odd for, anything up to 200 against.

Anyone explain, in practical terms, what, if anything, this means??

EDIT: Evidence (http://www.thebohs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=17216&p=372392)

[SkStu]

Maher resigned too which is fcking great news.

At a basic level, LTID, it means that the club will remain a members club. But it is symbolic of a shift in the membership, a shift towards rebuilding the club properly. Hopefully. But keep yer knickers on, i think we will get a premier license next year.

[hoopy]

Got a text, Motion 4 defeated 50 odd for, anything up to 200 against.

Anyone explain, in practical terms, what, if anything, this means??



It means there were at least 50 people there who should've been horse whipped after that vote.

[Dodge]

But keep yer knickers on, i think we will get a premier license next year.
I never thought this was in doubt. Whether you're owned by members or Sunderland, as long as you have a plan to pay your debts, and have incorporated them into the budget submitted to the FAI/licensing, then there was never a doubt

Now all you have to do is find a way to pay Zurich the money and you're laughing

[horton]

Would Shamrock Rvrs, now that they have loads of money, be interested in doing a Mike Ashley? dig deep and pay to get to rename Dalyer to something god awful? Help your rivals out and have a laugh at the same time.;)

[Charlie Darwin]

ShamrockRovers.ie@Dalymount?

[marinobohs]

Would Shamrock Rvrs, now that they have loads of money, be interested in doing a Mike Ashley? dig deep and pay to get to rename Dalyer to something god awful? Help your rivals out and have a laugh at the same time.;)

Alternatively they could pay off the debts they welched on in 2005 :) still a very long way for Bohs to go before they are sorted out and a Premier licence is some way down the "to do" list.

[marinobohs]

I never thought this was in doubt. Whether you're owned by members or Sunderland, as long as you have a plan to pay your debts, and have incorporated them into the budget submitted to the FAI/licensing, then there was never a doubt

Now all you have to do is find a way to pay Zurich the money and you're laughing

Dodge, I think licencing process only covers "football" debts which might not include Zurich loan which is a property debt. More likely licencing concern would be around guaranntee that Bohs would have a ground to play in if Dalymount were sold mid season.

[Dodge]

Dodge, I think licencing process only covers "football" debts which might not include Zurich loan which is a property debt. More likely licencing concern would be around guaranntee that Bohs would have a ground to play in if Dalymount were sold mid season.
Licensing covers more than jus debt. Your budget for next year will have to clearly show money in, and money out. And the money out bit is the important bit here...

Like I said, I've no doubt Bohs will get a license

[marinobohs]

Licensing covers more than jus debt. Your budget for next year will have to clearly show money in, and money out. And the money out bit is the important bit here...

Like I said, I've no doubt Bohs will get a license

...possibly with a side portion of fudge :cool::cool::cool:

[TiocfaidhArmani]

Not sure what Tolka would cost but it would need serious investment if club(s) were to take it on. Right now would be a great result for Bohs to somehow aquire Tolka.

How would that happen if you can't get the money to keep your own ground? I think the FAI should acquire either Dalyer or Tolka and renovate it to be the underage teams stadium that Bohs and Shels can both use.

They're coming into an €8 million windfall from the Euros hopefully, why can't they invest something in the domestic game for a change.

[nigel-harps1954]

How would that happen if you can't get the money to keep your own ground? I think the FAI should acquire either Dalyer or Tolka and renovate it to be the underage teams stadium that Bohs and Shels can both use.

They're coming into an €8 million windfall from the Euros hopefully, why can't they invest something in the domestic game for a change.

Because practically half of that money is going straight to the management team.

[Dodge]

They're coming into an €8 million windfall from the Euros hopefully, why can't they invest something in the domestic game for a change.
FAI layed off more cutbacks yessterday, they're up to their eyes in debt. They won't be splashing out on any stadium that isn't based in Dublin 4...

Never mind opening the door to accusations of offering competitive advantages to LOI clubs

[TiocfaidhArmani]

FAI layed off more cutbacks yessterday, they're up to their eyes in debt.

Any link to it, would like to read it, know someone who works for them.

[S.E.P.1990]

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/fai-hopes-for-euro8m-qualifying-windfall-as-jobs-on-the-line-at-abbotstown-hq-2932304.html

[TiocfaidhArmani]

Shame that, yet Delaney is on 400k a year and throws a grand behind the bar like it's nothing every chance he gets. Yet his association is in deep financial trouble and the GAA after spending three times what they had to put into their stadium are financially sound and their President is not on HALF what that idiot is on.

Why are the soccer community allowing this and not kicking up about it?

[S.E.P.1990]

Shame that, yet Delaney is on 400k a year and throws a grand behind the bar like it's nothing every chance he gets. Yet his association is in deep financial trouble and the GAA after spending three times what they had to put into their stadium are financially sound and their President is not on HALF what that idiot is on.

Why are the soccer community allowing this and not kicking up about it?

What soccer community? Fans of non-Irish teams only have a passing interest, many of the national teams fans are casual supporters who go straight back to parish pump sports once they leave the shiny Aviva. LOI fans are a minority without much support, so even if they cared who would know about it??

[TiocfaidhArmani]

LOI fans are the soccer community, something should be done at that level while he screwed the league by reducing the prize money by approx 66%, while he earns a Kings ransom. Surely supporters groups could lobby the FAI and kick up about it somehow?

[S.E.P.1990]

TA, we can't even sing about them without getting fined!

[Dodge]

LOI fans are the soccer community, something should be done at that level while he screwed the league by reducing the prize money by approx 66%, while he earns a Kings ransom. Surely supporters groups could lobby the FAI and kick up about it somehow?
Supporters groups are too busy making sure their clubs don't go to the walls

I'm no fan of Delaney but pick your battles