Bohs in financial trouble - FAI Licencing called into question again?

[Brusher]

As somebody who reads this forum on a daily basis, but never commits my thoughts for fear of being castigated. I feel I have to reply to the crap from some people.As a Bohs fan since 1981, my innocent dreams of a young kid was the hope that somewhere down the road that my team Bohemians and indeed others would turn full time and actually compete against bigger and better teams in Europe. I can only thank the Board at Bohs over the last 10 years or so that this was achieved, even if it now looks like a nightmare in the making.I believe that the decision makers at Bohs and other clubs were only guilty of aspiring to achieve from their own country.The only people really to feel ashamed at the sure demise of the League of Ireland, are the same bar stoolers who this weekend will consider themselves "Mancs" and "Scousers" etc.So i would ask people on this forum, to not gloat at anothers demise, as we surely could do with each others support at these times where no club can have the high moral ground.

[BohsPartisan]

I was more talking about general attitudes than that specific post Dodge (maybe I shouldn't have quoted that particular post). I still stand by my point.

Er you directed the "here we go again" comment directly at me. I was only replying to a specific point mede by one poster on the SCP. Yes we are up **** creek, no the SCP is not part of the problem this year. Plus I resent the suggestion that I had my head in the sand. How do you know what way I voted on the last few budgets? Just because I don't share my misgivings with the members of foot.ie doesn't mean I don't have them.

[De Town]

No relegation again this year, thanks to elite clubs abusing finances, the FAI are a farce....must be the only league in Europe where ye just can not get relegated...

As a Bray fan, I'm sure you'd know all about this.

[marinobohs]

Like ourselves clubs have been deservedly docked points over the last few years. Bohs have been warned this season and more than once last season about their finances by the FAI and zilch. And some Bohs fans come on here saying the FAI let us away with murder.

Perhaps the reason we have not been docked points is because we have broken no rules yet ? No matter how many times you say it we did not breach the 65% rule. try learning the rules not making them up, theres a good chap.:confused:

on the club finances there is major issues (never denied by bohs posters here) the first is cash flow to cover existing contract liabilities (and day to day expenditure). This will need to be covered to get us through until the end of the season. Longer term the issues are future expenditure / business model especially in a declining market (given the economic situation it would be very optiistic to expect income to go anyway but south for any club) so it is even less likely full time football will be a viable option next year (for any club). The ongoing saga about the sale of Dalymount and payment of monies owed will determine the mid to longer term future of the club - if it goes well we could come out OK but another balls up and we could be history (will leave the valuations to the shams property experts - must be the experience from Milltown :rolleyes:).

Meeting last night was to flesh out where the club is on all of the above issues, to inform the memebers of the position and to engage around what direction members want to proceed. It was not an EGM/AGM and accordingly nothing was voted on contrary to some reports.

[hoops1]

I hope Johnny Logan hasnt booked his holidays.

[pineapple stu]

Can we try keep this to the actual topic, and not have it descend into petty point scoring for once?

[dong]

Er you directed the "here we go again" comment directly at me. I was only replying to a specific point mede by one poster on the SCP. Yes we are up **** creek, no the SCP is not part of the problem this year. Plus I resent the suggestion that I had my head in the sand. How do you know what way I voted on the last few budgets? Just because I don't share my misgivings with the members of foot.ie doesn't mean I don't have them.

Hence why I said that maybe I shouldn't have quoted that particular post BohsPartisan. Also, I never said that you in particular had your head in the sand, sure I haven't a clue who you are or what your role is in the club.
Its just a general trait that I was alluding to.

[HulaHoop]

So come on Rovers fans, what was said in the meeting??

A couple of things have appeared on the ultras forum this morning. Up to anyone reading whether to believe the content or not.


Up **** creek without a paddle and they know it. Some interesting pearls to come out of last night's meeting :

The car park money they are getting from the Mater hospital which they were relying on for income is now totally being directly paid to the Revenue to try settle their tax bill. And because of cut backs in the HSE they don't know how much longer they will even get this.

Madden and Brennan are being whored around Scotland and England in a desperate bid to raise funds.

They claim to have a wage bill of 600k ( yeah right ! ) covering 35 staff who are under contract for next year which they can't pay. Players have refused to take pay cuts and are still owed bonus money. Nutsy believed to be owed 20 k.

Trying desperately to sell Dalymount to Paschal Conroy but Liam Carroll and Albion have to play ball. They have sent Carroll solicitors letters but he has not responded.

Fair play to the members. They have agreed to pay into matches for the rest of the season. How very noble of them. The same members who complained about having to pay into Villa and Wolves friendlies and who refused to pay into TNS match cos they are members.

And get this, in an even more desperate bid to get funds they have an agreement with Drogheda that all tickets for the abandoned game are null and void and everybody has to pay in again with bohs getting half the gate.


To add to TBC's post, the €600k is not the budget but the obligation they are under for next year. The players were asked to cancel contracts for next year, rightly told Bohs to **** off. Possibility of fully amatuer football next year. Treasurer (or whatever anachronism he goes under) admits they ****ed up the budgets this year.

Paschal Conroy has them over a barrel re the future of Dalymount as many of us predicted. The stupid *****s have no one but themselves to blame for the demise of 'the home of Irish football'.

KOH

[Jicked]

As somebody who reads this forum on a daily basis, but never commits my thoughts for fear of being castigated. I feel I have to reply to the crap from some people.As a Bohs fan since 1981, my innocent dreams of a young kid was the hope that somewhere down the road that my team Bohemians and indeed others would turn full time and actually compete against bigger and better teams in Europe. I can only thank the Board at Bohs over the last 10 years or so that this was achieved, even if it now looks like a nightmare in the making

Good god, you consider potentially f*cking the long term future of the club out the window in exchange for being beaten by TNS and Red Bull Salzburg as being worth it?

[Dodge]

AI can only thank the Board at Bohs over the last 10 years or so that this was achieved, even if it now looks like a nightmare in the making.I believe that the decision makers at Bohs and other clubs were only guilty of aspiring to achieve from their own country

The crucial difference is that some clubs financial problems were caused by people the fans could not control. In Bohs case, every board member was elected every year. Bohs fans could have helped their cluba long time ago.

Luckily it seems that you're one of the few still dreaming of europe. The majority of the rest of Bohs fans are very much in survival mode. I wish them well

[dong]

Sure I suppose in the worst case scenario, if they can't pay their way they can always regroup in the first division a la Cork and Derry anyways.
Seemed to work out okay for both of them. All you have to do if you're a fan is close your eyes and believe its still the same club.

[Jicked]

Sure I suppose in the worst case scenario, if they can't pay their way they can always regroup in the first division a la Cork and Derry anyways.
Seemed to work out okay for both of them. All you have to do if you're a fan is close your eyes and believe its still the same club.

But the difference with Cork was the fans had no previous control. Bohs fans have been in control and have stood over all this that has happened. How many board members have they been through at this stage from their ranks. If there's only 1,400 regular fans, would they really have enough qualified and capable members left after a purge to run the club on a sound basis?

It does now seem (going by GypoWeb at least) that most Bohs fans have given up the idea of just winning the league/setanta/euro progress to get by and are now in survival mode as dodge said. That's to be commended, but perhaps if they did that last year and regrouped ala Pats instead of getting Johnny Logan to try keep the show on the road for one more crack at it, they might be in a better state.

[pineapple stu]

Sure I suppose in the worst case scenario, if they can't pay their way they can always regroup in the first division a la Cork and Derry anyways.
Cork and Derry didn't own their grounds. So there is a difference there in that a First Division Bohs either sell Dalymount to cover their debts and end up homeless, ot they stay in Dalymount, run out of cash to meet loan repayments and get wound up. They'd be actually even worse off than Shels, who at least have sold their ground and, it seems, paid off many of their debts. They're now mid-table in their fourth year in the graveyard and going backwards (in terms of finishing positions anyway - second place, just 30 seconds away from the title, second place, losing the title two games out and beaten in the play-off semi, and now 5th)

[peadar1987]

But the difference with Cork was the fans had no previous control. Bohs fans have been in control and have stood over all this that has happened. How many board members have they been through at this stage from their ranks. If there's only 1,400 regular fans, would they really have enough qualified and capable members left after a purge to run the club on a sound basis?

It does now seem (going by GypoWeb at least) that most Bohs fans have given up the idea of just winning the league/setanta/euro progress to get by and are now in survival mode as dodge said. That's to be commended, but perhaps if they did that last year and regrouped ala Pats instead of getting Johnny Logan to try keep the show on the road for one more crack at it, they might be in a better state.

They (and every other club) need a qualified, full time off-the-field management team. It'd be of more benefit to the club than paying an extra bench-warming striker and journeyman full back in the long run.

[Mr A]

So if Bohs are well under the 65% rule, what is it that they are spending the money on?

[Macy]

So if Bohs are well under the 65% rule, what is it that they are spending the money on?
Barmen and groundsmen?

[dong]

They (and every other club) need a qualified, full time off-the-field management team. It'd be of more benefit to the club than paying an extra bench-warming striker and journeyman full back in the long run.

Blinkhorn and Boco??
Ouch.
I take your point though Peadar.

[pineapple stu]

So if Bohs are well under the 65% rule, what is it that they are spending the money on?
You saw my post above about buying back and re-selling the same part of their ground?

[marinobohs]

You saw my post above about buying back and re-selling the same part of their ground?

care to prove that or are you just WUMMING ?

[pineapple stu]

There was a thread on here about it a while back. I'll have a look see if I can dig it up.

Edit - here (http://foot.ie/threads/130064-Bohs-SCP-discussion?p=1298468&viewfull=1#post1298468) we go. schumi straight after gives a good possible summation. I'm not saying that it's what happened, but it'd certainly allow for Bohs to be under the SCP but yet screwed for cash.

[Schumi]

There was a thread on here about it a while back. I'll have a look see if I can dig it up.
http://foot.ie/threads/130064-Bohs-SCP-discussion?p=1298468&viewfull=1#post1298468

[peadar1987]

Blinkhorn and Boco??
Ouch.
I take your point though Peadar.

I wasn't talking about any player or club in particular, but now you mention it... :p



And on the clubs circumventing the 65% rule, wasn't there some post on here a while back saying that, say, Bohs could buy a carpet from Des Kelly for 10 million quid, and then Des Kelly sponsor them for, say 10,100,000 (I don't know how much the sponsorship deal is actually worth!). No more money has actually changed hands, but Bohs have an extra 10 million income to play with when the 65% is being calculated*

*I'm not making any accusations here, just saying how the cap could be beaten

[pineapple stu]

There's a similar thing to that shortly after in the same thread above, where the possibility of Bohs renting DCU for their underage team for - say - E100k and receiving E90k back in sponsorship for the teams was mooted. That'd also help boost the SCP level while not helping cash.

[marinobohs]

http://foot.ie/threads/130064-Bohs-SCP-discussion?p=1298468&viewfull=1#post1298468

selling an OPTION to purchase same as selling "the same part of the ground" ? Know where not to look for an accountant :rolleyes:

[Schumi]

And on the clubs circumventing the 65% rule, wasn't there some post on here a while back saying that, say, Bohs could buy a carpet from Des Kelly for 10 million quid, and then Des Kelly sponsor them for, say 10,100,000 (I don't know how much the sponsorship deal is actually worth!). No more money has actually changed hands, but Bohs have an extra 10 million income to play with when the 65% is being calculated*

*I'm not making any accusations here, just saying how the cap could be beatenSee the link just above. I don't think it was ever clarified whether that would work but I can't be bothered reading through a 23 page thread to check!

[pineapple stu]

selling an OPTION to purchase same as selling "the same part of the ground" ? Know where not to look for an accountant :rolleyes:
That's just a technicality. The deal perfectly answers the question of how Bohs could meet the SCP while being screwed for cash. That was the question asked. I've not said that it's what's happened.

[Dodge]

So if Bohs are well under the 65% rule, what is it that they are spending the money on?

back payments to revenue? Loan repayments? I'd imagine there are a fair few large outgoings possible

[passerrby]

It does now seem (going by GypoWeb at least) that most Bohs fans have given up the idea of just winning the league/setanta/euro progress to get by and are now in survival mode as dodge said. That's to be commended, but perhaps if they did that last year and regrouped ala Pats instead of getting Johnny Logan to try keep the show on the road for one more crack at it, they might be in a better state.
whats another year .i ll get my coat

[marinobohs]

That's just a technicality. The deal perfectly answers the question of how Bohs could meet the SCP while being screwed for cash. That was the question asked. I've not said that it's what's happened.

As we are not in breach of the SCP the issue has no relevance (apart from regurgitated claims by various shams and assosiates). long way from just a technical difference but no point as its irrelevant to the topic.

[pineapple stu]

It's utterly central to the question that was asked.

[Dodge]

As we are not in breach of the SCP the issue has no relevance (apart from regurgitated claims by various shams and assosiates). long way from just a technical difference but no point as its irrelevant to the topic.

Did you actually read what he said?

[marinobohs]

Did you actually read what he said?

Which of the unsubstansiated claims by shams great defender do you mean ? That we sold part of the ground - untrue - or the claim that we engineered some deal with DCU to get round SCP - also untrue ?

have no problem debating any legitimate point raised but unfortunately find it difficult to debate made up nonsense that the same individual would not allow were the club anyone other than Bohs.

[HulaHoop]

There's a similar thing to that shortly after in the same thread above, where the possibility of Bohs renting DCU for their underage team for - say - E100k and receiving E90k back in sponsorship for the teams was mooted. That'd also help boost the SCP level while not helping cash.


There was something along these lines in their 2008 accounts which is why Rovers asked the FAI to investigate them last year. Of course the FAI just turned a blind eye.

[marinobohs]

There was something along these lines in their 2008 accounts which is why Rovers asked the FAI to investigate them last year. Of course the FAI just turned a blind eye.

.....or that the FAI found absolutely no substance whatsoever to shams accusation :rolleyes:

[pineapple stu]

Which of the unsubstansiated claims by shams great defender do you mean ? That we sold part of the ground - untrue - or the claim that we engineered some deal with DCU to get round SCP - also untrue ?
I've posted a newspaper article backing up what I said. You're splitting hairs over a technicality; that doesn't take away from the overall point. I expressly didn't claim that Bohs had an agreement with DCU; I merely posted that it had previously been posted (by a Bohs fan).

[BohsPartisan]

It does now seem (going by GypoWeb at least) that most Bohs fans have given up the idea of just winning the league/setanta/euro progress to get by and are now in survival mode as dodge said. That's to be commended, but perhaps if they did that last year and regrouped ala Pats instead of getting Johnny Logan to try keep the show on the road for one more crack at it, they might be in a better state.

Hard to convince the aul lads that there's a problem when the trophies were rolling in. That's the sad fact of it.

[Jicked]

.....or that the FAI found absolutely no substance whatsoever to shams accusation :rolleyes:

God this is priceless. But when the FAI find no substance whatsover to Réiteoir/SkStu/Sheridan's racism allegation and publically announce such after an inquiry that doesn't count?

[BohsPartisan]

God this is priceless. But when the FAI find no substance whatsover to Réiteoir/SkStu/Sheridan's racism allegation and publically announce such after an inquiry that doesn't count?

If you have a youtube video of irregularities in Bohs accounts I'd be more than willing to consider it ;)

[superjohnny]

Edit of this post

[Rasher]

Which of the unsubstansiated claims by shams great defender do you mean ? That we sold part of the ground - untrue - or the claim that we engineered some deal with DCU to get round SCP - also untrue ?

have no problem debating any legitimate point raised but unfortunately find it difficult to debate made up nonsense that the same individual would not allow were the club anyone other than Bohs.

http://i36.tinypic.com/30hsyz5.jpg

[El-Pietro]

http://i36.tinypic.com/30hsyz5.jpg
why has he got the Philadelphia Flyers logo on his hat

[Charlie Darwin]

To be fair to Fenlon, any club that hires him is basically signaling that it wants to spend lots of money. It's not like he goes around seducing chairmen with "**** me" eyes.

[SkStu]

To be fair to Fenlon, any club that hires him is basically signaling that it wants to spend lots of money. It's not like he goes around seducing chairmen with "**** me" eyes.

yeah more like "im gonna **** you" eyes, when you think about it. :)

sorry for defending my club in the past lads. Bohs is everything to me and it seems as though we are really screwed. Bad times. I was away for a few days and came back to this. Well, we'll soldier through this however long it takes and we'll be back at some stage.

[hoopy]

Bad times

I wouldn't agree with you there :bottle: :can:

[pineapple stu]

sorry for defending my club in the past lads. Bohs is everything to me and it seems as though we are really screwed.
Genuine question. Did you honestly think things weren't as bad at the club as others (myself included obviously) have made out?

[SkStu]

Genuine question. Did you honestly think things weren't as bad at the club as others (myself included obviously) have made out?

Im not sure why you feel the need to ask me that but ill answer it anyway. I genuinely didnt know the full story. Im not a member. Ive never claimed to know it all but have tried to base my posts on what i knew or heard and i have made that clear on here in the past. I thought we had taken decent steps towards more prudent stewardship in the last year and was confident that we would turn things around. I knew it would involve more cutbacks and was prepared for that and welcomed it. I was worried but didnt know how much i should worry.

I agree with the Bohs people who say that they are relieved and that this is the beginning of the end of the rot. I am hopeful that the members will pull together and set the club back on track as the people at Cork, Derry and Rovers have done. It will be harder for us, probably, and could take a long, long time but it will be worth it in the long run.

[pineapple stu]

Im not sure why you feel the need to ask me
Just cos your post kind of begged the question.

[Boo_Boy]

Give your number 1 fan (http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt254/byte_babe/DSCN2331.jpg) a call. He'll help you lot out.

:)

[SkStu]

ah, i see where youre coming from. I thought you were basing it on what i had previously posted.

[pineapple stu]

That as well. But it was your post that really asked the question.

Bottom line though - trust the sceptics. We're usually right in this league...