View Full Version : Bohs in financial trouble - FAI Licencing called into question again?
HulaHoop
01/12/2010, 7:12 PM
i have fans?
seriously, what the f has that got to do with anything i posted?
Just pointing out this story was fed to the press by someone from Bohs, it didn't just appear out of nowhere.
thats hardly the revelation you seem to think it is.
marinobohs
02/12/2010, 10:21 AM
From the previous page:
The talk of re-signing established, previous league winning players just seems madness when you think the focus would be on being able to put out a team featuring any senior experience whatsoever. The fact that Bohs fans don't seem to be up in arms about the club seeking to rip up deals with their first team squad, but not their first team manager, as if they'll need Fenlon's (expensive) tactical nous next year in a bid to finish as high up the table as possible also seems strange to me.
Why not include Fenlon's deal in those being paid off if you plan on doing anything more than survive/keep your head above water, investing in a highly paid coach who has only ever worked with full time professional teams with a large budget makes it seem like Bohs have completely missed the point.
Firstly i never mentioned Pat Fenlon or his contract so wrong about that point (although you will be pleased to know ALL costs at Dalymount are under review), secondly I simply pointed out that it was the contract/cost of the players not the players themselves that were the reason why Bohs were seeking to terminate contracts. Even to you it must be obvious that signing established players is preferable if the deal is right for the club ? (which obviously means within whatever playing budget we have for next season) i expect the same applies to all clubs.
Nobody suggested signing players which exceed the (limited) budget we will have next year but would expect whoever the manager is to try and get the best value for whatever the budget is. there, that simple enough for you ?
higgins
02/12/2010, 6:53 PM
Super stuff yet again from the FAI.
Deadlines pass and more are set.
Get ready for another Cork City mess that will drag on well into 2011.
Appeals, extensions, meetings cancelled due to snow ....
Most of the 100K raised to date probably comes from membership fees and season tickets?
Shels were demoted for late payment to players. These guys are ripping up contracts!
My theory is that the FAI probably don't want any blame in the selling/loss of Dalymount Park. Taking Bohs European money and Premier Division gates from them certainly puts them in a position that they can't pay their way through the problem (maybe they cant anyway).
My hope would be that the FAI pay for part or majority ownership of Dalymount.
It saves Bohs and it saves Dalymount. As much as I hate the place being a Shels fan, it is a ground with massive history.
Rent it back to Bohs...
hedderman
02/12/2010, 7:04 PM
Super stuff yet again from the FAI.
Deadlines pass and more are set.
Get ready for another Cork City mess that will drag on well into 2011.
Appeals, extensions, meetings cancelled due to snow ....
Most of the 100K raised to date probably comes from membership fees and season tickets?
Shels were demoted for late payment to players. These guys are ripping up contracts!
My theory is that the FAI probably don't want any blame in the selling/loss of Dalymount Park. Taking Bohs European money and Premier Division gates from them certainly puts them in a position that they can't pay their way through the problem (maybe they cant anyway).
My hope would be that the FAI pay for part or majority ownership of Dalymount.
It saves Bohs and it saves Dalymount. As much as I hate the place being a Shels fan, it is a ground with massive history.
Rent it back to Bohs...
I don't know where the FAI would get the money to do that though, much as I love the place.
higgins
02/12/2010, 7:13 PM
A few million to save a ground with massive history?
Surely they can get a loan and build the interest payments into the amount they offer Bohs. Bohs then pay rent too. They can also get a second team to pay rent (NOT Shels please!)...
After the deal they can demote Bohs for failure to get below 65% or whatever they make up.
But to act on Bohs and put them in a position where Dalymount goes for peanuts to some builder makes no sense.
Bohs messed up but the FAI should be there to help Irish football.
The loss of Bohs and Dalymount makes no sense.
jinxy lilywhite
02/12/2010, 7:57 PM
A few million to save a ground with massive history?
Surely they can get a loan and build the interest payments into the amount they offer Bohs. Bohs then pay rent too. They can also get a second team to pay rent (NOT Shels please!)...
After the deal they can demote Bohs for failure to get below 65% or whatever they make up.
But to act on Bohs and put them in a position where Dalymount goes for peanuts to some builder makes no sense.
Bohs messed up but the FAI should be there to help Irish football.
The loss of Bohs and Dalymount makes no sense.
No way. If they couldn't help cobh in the manner you suggested (btw they suggested at the time that the FAI buy St. Colmans Pk), why should they do this for bohs because of their so called history and for sentiment of dalymount.
Charlie Darwin
02/12/2010, 8:01 PM
Makes no sense for whom? Bohemians were going to have Dalymount demolished anyway - if the ground meant anything to the FAI they'd have bought it from them when they were pimping it to every developer. Buying it now would just leave them with a rundown stadium they can't afford.
higgins
02/12/2010, 8:43 PM
The FAI were never going to compete with the 50m for Dalymount nonsense. However now that it is going on the cheap I think it is worth a look.
It saves Bohs too.
I might hate Bohs as a Shels fan but the FAI should be doing what is best for Irish football.
A league without Bohs and Dalymount doesn't seem the best option in all of this?
Hardly helps Irish football does it.
Best for me would be for them to save Dalymount Park and punish Bohs.
Jicked
02/12/2010, 8:52 PM
Hang on, it was Bohs themselves who first came up with the idea of a LoI without Dalymount
No way. If they couldn't help cobh in the manner you suggested (btw they suggested at the time that the FAI buy St. Colmans Pk), why should they do this for bohs because of their so called history and for sentiment of dalymount.
agreed. I dont want Bohs to be bailed out by Abbotstown. I want us to find our own way out of this if possible and onto a sustainable, stable foundation by whatever means we can. Might sound impossible but there you go.
osarusan
02/12/2010, 9:10 PM
Hang on, it was Bohs themselves who first came up with the idea of a LoI without Dalymount
I don't think the idea is that Bohs stay there, more that the FAI buy it rather than Bohs being forced to sell it for next to nothing. Bohs are helped with a move, and the FAI have a property worth more than they paid for.
Edit: higgins' idea does have Bohs staying there alright.
monutdfc
02/12/2010, 9:19 PM
Why don't Dublin City Council buy it and rent it to Bohs?
Charlie Darwin
02/12/2010, 10:31 PM
Why would anyone buy it? It's a small stadium built on land that would be far more usefully used for commercial property. Even in the current market it would be ridiculously overvalued as a football stadium. Bohs made the right decision to sell it - it was just their own greed and incompetence that prevented them from getting the job done.
Schumi
02/12/2010, 10:37 PM
It's a small stadium built on land that would be far more usefully used for commercial property. Even in the current market it would be ridiculously overvalued as a football stadium. Bohs made the right decision to sell it
Just like Kilcoyne?
Charlie Darwin
02/12/2010, 11:03 PM
Hey, now I'm no fan of Bohs but comparing them to the Kilcoynes is just mean...
Milltown was a bit before my time but I suppose you could say it's the logical antecedent to the Dalymount deal in some respects. The country was a vastly different place back then and Phibsboro is a far more compact place than Milltown but in both cases the owners realised they were sitting on something that probably had more sentimental purpose than actual purpose. The problem with the Kilcoynes is they tried to do the move on the cheap rather than trying to fleece a ruthless businessman like Bohs did.
pineapple stu
03/12/2010, 9:58 AM
A few million to save a ground with massive history?
Sure what's a few million in the current times? It's not as if the FAI have large debts, poor ticket sales, falling attendances and a slim chance of qualifying for a major competition in the near future.
Though on that topic, didn't the FAI buy Dalymount off Bohs before?
marinobohs
03/12/2010, 10:11 AM
Sure what's a few million in the current times? It's not as if the FAI have large debts, poor ticket sales, falling attendances and a slim chance of qualifying for a major competition in the near future.
Though on that topic, didn't the FAI buy Dalymount off Bohs before?
They did indeed Stu (well recalled), back in the 80's. fortunately we have a long standing policy of selling the ground more than once. Unfortunately your other points RE the FAI having bugger all money and a huge financial commitment to Lansdowne Rd are the major blockages.
Spudulika
03/12/2010, 10:23 AM
If the FAI take Dalymount off Bohs hands, get a name deal for it, and bring in Sporting Fingal from the cold of Morton, then surely there is a workable solution. I don't want Bohs or any other club to go under, no matter what the rivalries, and more importantly, because it could be my club next. This is a situation where the FAI can lay down a marker (forgive the Kidney speak) and really bring the LOI forward. However it does bring up deeper questions about wages and full time football, especially with the current financial constraints.
Dodge
03/12/2010, 10:51 AM
If the FAI take Dalymount off Bohs hands, get a name deal for it, and bring in Sporting Fingal from the cold of Morton, then surely there is a workable solution. .
is everyone forgetting the FAI can't pay for the half a stadium they actually do own at the minute? There's absolutely no chance they'll be making any capital expenditure. Likewise Dublin City Council. Their budget is about to be slashed. They've no room for sentiment. A sentiment that Bohs themselves had no problem in dismissing.
marinobohs
03/12/2010, 11:28 AM
If the FAI take Dalymount off Bohs hands, get a name deal for it, and bring in Sporting Fingal from the cold of Morton, then surely there is a workable solution. I don't want Bohs or any other club to go under, no matter what the rivalries, and more importantly, because it could be my club next. This is a situation where the FAI can lay down a marker (forgive the Kidney speak) and really bring the LOI forward. However it does bring up deeper questions about wages and full time football, especially with the current financial constraints.
Good solution except -
(1) FAI have bugger all money, and apart from purchase price considerable funds required for upkeep of Dalymount
(2) Dont recall Sporting Fingal looking for move to Dalyer
(3) Not that easy to sell Dalymount to FAI or anyone at the moment given contractural difficulties
(4) why would Bohs sell to FAI if they are going to be relegated to "A" football anyway ?
Appreciate the sentiment but it was ground selling that got Bohs into current difficulties and I doubt it is the solution at least in the short term (and we may not have a long term)
Good solution except -
(1) FAI have bugger all money, and apart from purchase price considerable funds required for upkeep of Dalymount
(2) Dont recall Sporting Fingal looking for move to Dalyer
(3) Not that easy to sell Dalymount to FAI or anyone at the moment given contractural difficulties
(4) why would Bohs sell to FAI if they are going to be relegated to "A" football anyway ?
Appreciate the sentiment but it was ground selling that got Bohs into current difficulties and I doubt it is the solution at least in the short term (and we may not have a long term)
Arent Albion now out of the picture completely?
Spudulika
04/12/2010, 5:57 AM
Marino - for Sporting I thought it would be a logical move for them, even if it is outside of Fingal, it would just mean a proper ground for them, plus the playing surface would be good for their style of football.
Good luck to Bohs, and all sides over the winter.
Rocketman
04/12/2010, 6:21 PM
Would this explain why Fenlon's contract was not ripped up along with the players, looking for some compo if it happens..
http://www.express.co.uk/football/view/215397/Fenlon-makes-pitch-for-Dons-post
Charlie Darwin
04/12/2010, 6:28 PM
Yeah, a few Bohs fans have mentioned compensation for Fenlon as part of raising the cash they need. Although they were also factoring in a transfer fee for Madden, so good luck with that.
The reality is probably a mixture of him being their highest-paid staff member and his contract still having years to run rather than just 1.
Would this explain why Fenlon's contract was not ripped up along with the players, looking for some compo if it happens..
http://www.express.co.uk/football/view/215397/Fenlon-makes-pitch-for-Dons-post
no players contracts were ripped up. You cant just rip up players' contracts. Out of contract players were released. The remainder are still employees of the club. The fact is we have to honour the contracts or renegotiate them. Same with Nutsy. Compensation wont stand in the way of any move i would say. Not like when DUFC.
Hindsight is 20/20 obviously but we really should have snapped their hand off when they offerd us 100k. Oh well.
Rocketman
04/12/2010, 8:23 PM
no players contracts were ripped up. You cant just rip up players' contracts. Out of contract players were released. The remainder are still employees of the club. The fact is we have to honour the contracts or renegotiate them. Same with Nutsy. Compensation wont stand in the way of any move i would say. Not like when DUFC.
Hindsight is 20/20 obviously but we really should have snapped their hand off when they offerd us 100k. Oh well.
Sorry I thought all contracted players agreed to terminate contracts for an agreed sum. They may have agreed but this still leaves them free to leave as a free agent, as their contract was not honoured. Therefore technically all players contracts have been ripped up!
http://findarticles.com/p/news-articles/daily-mail-london-england-the/mi_8002/is_2010_Nov_30/players-spares-cash-strapped-bohs/ai_n56380291/
i see a big difference between ripping up a contract and renegotiating a contract or even negotiating a settlement of a contract.
Rocketman
04/12/2010, 8:47 PM
i see a big difference between ripping up a contract and renegotiating a contract or even negotiating a settlement of a contract.
Is that not ripping up a contract for a fee lesser than the contract is worth........
i dont think it is but youre welcome to.
Ezeikial
04/12/2010, 9:00 PM
i see a big difference between ripping up a contract and renegotiating a contract or even negotiating a settlement of a contract.
Is that not ripping up a contract for a fee lesser than the contract is worth........
It is irrelevant whether you chose to describe what has happened as "ripping up a contract" or "neogotiating a settlement" - the club were clearly unable to meet their commitments and were obliged to reach an agreement on early termination.
thischarmingman
16/12/2010, 8:20 AM
Bohs' future remains up in the air
THE Premier Division future of Bohemians remains in jeopardy, with the club no closer to reaching common ground with the contracted players whom they have been unable to agree redundancy packages with.
PFAI chief Stephen McGuinness yesterday maintained the state of affairs at Dalymount Park was 'grave.'
The club held another EGM on Monday evening where they restated the need to generate extra funds over the winter. Members have resisted the introduction of a levy, although 160 have made voluntary contributions.
However, the Gypsies need to sort out matters with the players whom they wish to remove from the wage bill if they are to even have a chance of competing in the top flight in 2011.
They are behind two weeks wages, and want in the region of 26 weeks of their 52-week deals paid up in order to walk away. McGuinness hinted they are willing to compromise, but feels Bohs have to make a similar gesture; the Phibsborough club were initially offering 13 weeks...
Full article here. (http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/bohs-future-remains-up-in-the-air-2461093.html)
Jicked
21/12/2010, 5:48 PM
Dan McDonnell now reporting that two Bohs players are demanding their money within 21 days or they'll issue the club with a winding-up order. Ho ho ho!
confirmation coming from Dalymount today, apparently, that Sporting Fingal will be playing out of Dalymount next year.
Dan McDonnell now reporting that two Bohs players are demanding their money within 21 days or they'll issue the club with a winding-up order. Ho ho ho!
can i be the first to say - "i told you so" to all the doubters who said Bohs wouldnt see 2011.
Jicked
21/12/2010, 7:07 PM
Really, confirmation? Weren't people saying the other day that the Co Co let Fingal play there rent-free? Dan McDonnell on Newstalk earlier this evening talking about the Bohs situation with their players, should be on a podcast soon enough.
John83
21/12/2010, 7:07 PM
confirmation coming from Dalymount today, apparently, that Sporting Fingal will be playing out of Dalymount next year.
Aw, just like Dublin City.
<insert drunken ramble about a train>
Really, confirmation? Weren't people saying the other day that the Co Co let Fingal play there rent-free?
thats why i said apparently.
Jicked
21/12/2010, 7:15 PM
Confirmation, apparently? That's a little bit extremely certain alright.
More from McDonnell: Bohs basically saying they won't have any money until mid January, not especially critical of players who have taken action. "The club has informed the players truthfully and honestly regarding its financial situation." - But players feel club too inflexible
http://twitter.com/#!/McDonnellDan
Confirmation, apparently? That's a little bit extremely certain alright.
not really. All you need to do is read what i posted.
Spudulika
21/12/2010, 8:57 PM
Was stuck in the car listening to this, largely an anti-FAI rant that was egged on by the presenters. Here's hoping Bohs are alive and well next Christmas.
Ezeikial
21/12/2010, 9:28 PM
confirmation coming from Dalymount today, apparently, that Sporting Fingal will be playing out of Dalymount next year.
Has this "confirmation" happened yet?
can i be the first to say - "i told you so" to all the doubters who said Bohs wouldnt see 2011.
I for one certainly hope that Bohs see 2011! There is little doubt that the club will survive the next 10 days, but how and whether they will start or end the forthcoming season remains to be seen.
I think it is fair to say the the immediate future is shrouded in considerable "doubt" for Bohs - have you some additional knowledge that would alter this widely held view? Do you have a different view?
Ezeikial
21/12/2010, 10:22 PM
Extratime and RTE reports
http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2010/1221/bohemians.html
http://www.extratime.ie/newsdesk/articles/4720/
Bohs facing more difficulties
by Extratime Team
Tue, Dec 21 2010
Bohemians were facing more bad news this evening as the club confirmed it had received notice from a solicitor on behalf of two players. The players are demanding payment of two weeks wages owed.
The statement read:
Bohemian FC received this evening (21 December 2010) correspondence on behalf of two players in relation to a demand for unpaid wages. As of today, two weeks’ wages are due to both players.
The club has been in negotiation with players since last month on offers to buy-out existing contracts. The offers were enhanced during talks this month.
The offers were subject to sufficient funding being in place and the wages now due were to be covered by any eventual agreement. The club at all times liaised with the PFAI who have been helpful in the negotiations.
The club has informed the players truthfully and honestly regarding its financial situation. The players were told that it would likely be mid-January 2011 when funds would be in place to back the offers.
The Lep
21/12/2010, 10:22 PM
Same here, i hope that Bohs come good . I know the fans have given a decent amount of their hard earned money already but if it doesnt work out for Bohs, would they be in a position to do what Foras or Derry did?
sundance kid
21/12/2010, 10:32 PM
Maybe we'll be looking at a Fingal Bohemians soon enough, with fingals board running the show, who at least seem to have some sort of interest in growing the club in the community, and Bohs history and existing fanbase. It might just get a ground built in the Fingal area quick enough too, if bohs can sell dalymount AGAIN of course.
Schumi
21/12/2010, 11:48 PM
Really, confirmation? Weren't people saying the other day that the Co Co let Fingal play there rent-free?
If these people only amount to me on the Fingal thread, don't take that as gospel!
Lamper.sffc
21/12/2010, 11:57 PM
It seems SF moving to Dalymount is true. A few very reliable sources on Boards have confirmed it and it should be announced (officially) in the coming days.
Has this "confirmation" happened yet?
it would appear so going on Lampers post above mine.
I for one certainly hope that Bohs see 2011! There is little doubt that the club will survive the next 10 days, but how and whether they will start or end the forthcoming season remains to be seen.
I think it is fair to say the the immediate future is shrouded in considerable "doubt" for Bohs - have you some additional knowledge that would alter this widely held view? Do you have a different view?
well that post of mine went totally over your head.
White Horse
22/12/2010, 7:05 AM
Sporting Bohs?
The Pride of Fingal.
BonnieShels
22/12/2010, 8:55 AM
Sporting Bohs?
The Pride of Fingal.
Durty.
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