Martin O'Neill and Roy Keane

[DeLorean]

3. Applied for vacant club jobs in England but nobody wanted him.

He turned down Stoke, didn't he? What vacant jobs did he apply for?

[Eminence Grise]

O'Neill meeting with the board to discuss future this week according to Newstalk

Wouldn't rule out a pay rise, the way Delaney operates.:rolleyes:

I can't believe that the FAI would negotiate a contract without non-performance clauses and their consequences. Well, actually, I can, but you know what I mean.

Indo reporting this morning that Steve Walford has stepped down as coach for personal reasons. One less salary to pay off, or a new coach to boost the backroom team? Answers on a postcard, please. https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/personal-reasons-prompt-walford-exit-37550175.html

[Cathalsmart]

He turned down Stoke, didn't he? What vacant jobs did he apply for?

Because the offer was one year plus he probably knew he would get sacked quickly enough and then have nothing.

[Olé Olé]

The Telegraph article is funny it's by Edwards who is a mate of O'Neill's. Frames the whole thing in his favour, referencing Robbie's retirement and implying that Delaney is using MON as a scapegoat.

[DeLorean]

Because the offer was one year plus he probably knew he would get sacked quickly enough and then have nothing.

So he turned down Stoke then. Okay.

[osarusan]

I think one problem is that with Stephen Kenny, when a bad spell came, the players (and fans) would reach the 'this manager hasn't a f**king clue what he is doing' stage earlier than they would with somebody who had had success at a higher level.

[Olé Olé]

I think one problem is that with Stephen Kenny, when a bad spell came, the players (and fans) would reach the 'this manager hasn't a f**king clue what he is doing' stage earlier than they would with somebody who had had success at a higher level.
Similar to Stan.

[Stuttgart88]

The Telegraph article is funny it's by Edwards who is a mate of O'Neill's. Frames the whole thing in his favour, referencing Robbie's retirement and implying that Delaney is using MON as a scapegoat.I hate that kind of article. "O'Neill who doesn't have the players or a goalscorer....". Any watcher of this team can tell that it has become an incohesive rabble and we get outplayed by well coached teams with similar or worse players.

[passinginterest]

Wouldn't rule out a pay rise, the way Delaney operates.:rolleyes:

I can't believe that the FAI would negotiate a contract without non-performance clauses and their consequences. Well, actually, I can, but you know what I mean.

Indo reporting this morning that Steve Walford has stepped down as coach for personal reasons. One less salary to pay off, or a new coach to boost the backroom team? Answers on a postcard, please. https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/personal-reasons-prompt-walford-exit-37550175.html

Gives the impression Walford has been gone for a while. Possibly a link to the fact the team has looked more shapeless in the last few games?

If O'Neill and Keane are officially gone it's going to be a huge call on the new management team. Personally, as much as I admire Stephen Kenny and his playing style, I didn't think international management would suit him and I don't think it's the right time in his career.

Mick McCarthy is obviously available, but I'm not sure going back is ever a good idea.

I can't see anyone leaving a decent club manager's job and jumping at it, so we might be looking at a younger coach or assistant, somebody who's making a good impression and looking to step up to management for the first time. Maybe a Carsley or someone of that ilk.

Knowing the FAI it'll be a Noel King and Paul Doolin dream team to reward them for their years of loyal service.

[Fixer82]

Feel a bit for Keane. Maurice Setters, Chris Hughton, Ian Evans, never mentioned when people wanted the manager at the time out.
Sadlier mentioning Keane of course, they have history.

Not that I’m suggesting Keane would be more successful but, it’s not his team, he’s assistant manager.

[jbyrne]

O'Neill meeting with the board to discuss future this week according to Newstalk

MON could be gone as early as today

[tetsujin1979]

Am I right in saying this all stems from one report in the Telegraph?

[jbyrne]

Am I right in saying this all stems from one report in the Telegraph?

no, not really

[DeLorean]

The more dramatic reports where it appears he'll be sacked seem to be sourcing The Telegraph - RTÉ, the42.ie, The Examiner, Irish Times.

The Indo (Dan McDonnell) are only quoting MON saying that they'll meet for talks, as is standard practice after every match.

Edit - actually The Indo have a more recent report sourcing The Telegraph too so yeah, it seems to be mainly (if not exclusively) from there.

[DeLorean]

Wow - https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2018/1121/1012347-martin-oneill-and-roy-keane-part-company-with-fai/?utm_source=xtremepush&utm_medium=webpush&utm_campaign=Martin%20O%27Neill%20and%20Roy%20Kean e%20have%20resigned%20as%20Republic%20of%20Ireland %20management%20team%20%28xtremepush%20%235855482% 29&utm_term=notification%20%2390891107_92736355&utm_content=A

[backstothewall]

Both gone

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2018/1121/1012347-martin-oneill-and-roy-keane-part-company-with-fai/

[brine3]

So he turned down Stoke then. Okay.

My memory of it was that he wasn't Stoke's first choice.

[Olé Olé]

Both gone

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2018/1121/1012347-martin-oneill-and-roy-keane-part-company-with-fai/

Phew. McCarthy must be a very short price. There are few options. Kenny would be great as far as I'm concerned.

[osarusan]

Troussier surely.

[zero]

had to be done. the euros were great so fair play to MON for that, but the time for change had come.

[DeLorean]

My memory of it was that he wasn't Stoke's first choice.

He wasn't, it was Gary Rowett iirc. But you said he applied for jobs, my memory of that is that Stoke approached him but he wasn't happy with the offer? What other jobs did he apply for?

[Eminence Grise]

Well that was quick, in the end. Right choice. So, who gets to be the kingmaker? And who are the likely candidates? Mick McCarthy? Brian McDermott? One or more of Carsley, Reid, Cunningham, Duff, Keane on the staff? Or some washed-up hack on the prowl for a last decent gig? Let the speculation begin!

[Olé Olé]

Troussier surely.

Paul Jewell.

[Olé Olé]

Sky Sports will be showing clips of Harry Redknapp leaning out the window of the chopper collecting him from the jungle.

[OwlsFan]

Paul Jewell.

Are you John Giles in disguise ?

[brine3]

He wasn't, it was Gary Rowett iirc. But you said he applied for jobs, my memory of that is that Stoke approached him but he wasn't happy with the offer? What other jobs did he apply for?

Well, applied is too strong a word. That would look bad as well when you already have a job that you might want to keep.

Let's say he put the feelers out.

The players will have known that and won't have been too impressed.

[Buller]

Didn't think the FAI could afford to sack them? Hopefully "mutual consent" means no pay off?!

[Eminence Grise]

If attendances keep dropping, say by 15k per game, that's the guts of €500,000 in lost revenues four or five times a year. That has a knock-on effect on (re)negotiating sponsorships.

Of course, the cynic in me says JD only acted because the papers were beginning to include him in their 'change is needed' narrative.

[Olé Olé]

Didn't think the FAI could afford to sack them? Hopefully "mutual consent" means no pay off?!
I would imagine it's not the full wage but a compromised package. Also, the successor, whoever it is, won't break the bank in salary if they're trying to balance the book. McCarthy and Kenny would surely be relatively cheap.

And they lost money in the Wales and NI games due to low attendances. I'm sure the attendances would have been pretty terrible for the remaining games of the 18/19 season. I'm sure they'll be selling packages for the remaining games and they will sell quite well.

[Olé Olé]

If attendances keep dropping, say by 15k per game, that's the guts of €500,000 in lost revenues four or five times a year. That has a knock-on effect on (re)negotiating sponsorships.

Of course, the cynic in me says JD only acted because the papers were beginning to include him in their 'change is needed' narrative.

Agreed. Someone has ran the numbers and it wasn't pretty. There's probably an equation on the gate receipt and sponsorship differential and the salary of a new appointment being balanced against the MON wages for the next two years which arrives at a package which still leaves the overall net expenditure at less than the 4m mooted.

[DeLorean]

Well, applied is too strong a word. That would look bad as well when you already have a job that you might want to keep.

Let's say he put the feelers out.

The players will have known that and won't have been too impressed.

Stoke needed a manager so they approached him I thought (as their second/third choice). I'm not sure why you assume MON put the feelers out. Don't get me wrong, the whole thing stank at the time but I never felt it was O'Neill actively seeking another job in the first place, let alone multiple vacant managerial jobs.

[brine3]

Agreed. Someone has ran the numbers and it wasn't pretty. There's probably an equation on the gate receipt and sponsorship differential and the salary of a new appointment being balanced against the MON wages for the next two years which arrives at a package which still leaves the overall net expenditure at less than the 4m mooted.

It's also possible that the FAI put a Nation's League relegation clause in the new contract.

[Stuttgart88]

Of course, the cynic in me says JD only acted because the papers were beginning to include him in their 'change is needed' narrative.I don't think that's overly cynical at all. The guy is a master at deflection.

[Stuttgart88]

Well that was quick, in the end. Right choice. So, who gets to be the kingmaker? And who are the likely candidates? Mick McCarthy? Brian McDermott? One or more of Carsley, Reid, Cunningham, Duff, Keane on the staff? Or some washed-up hack on the prowl for a last decent gig? Let the speculation begin!Can't beat one of those periodic "who will it be" debates!

[seanfhear]

Ok it might upset the Neighbours ...

But how About

Michael O’ Neill .

Make him an offer ( financially ) that it would be hard to refuse .

[brine3]

Stoke needed a manager so they approached him I thought (as their second/third choice). I'm not sure why you assume MON put the feelers out. Don't get me wrong, the whole thing stank at the time but I never felt it was O'Neill actively seeking another job in the first place, let alone multiple vacant managerial jobs.

Well, he refused to sign the new contract with Ireland until he was sure he wasn't being hired by Stoke (or anybody else). That's as good as making your self available, but in a politically savvy way.

The players got the message. They haven't played for him since.

[Kingdom]

Well that was quick, in the end. Right choice. So, who gets to be the kingmaker? And who are the likely candidates? Mick McCarthy? Brian McDermott? One or more of Carsley, Reid, Cunningham, Duff, Keane on the staff? Or some washed-up hack on the prowl for a last decent gig? Let the speculation begin!

The most crucial appointment since 86 in my opinion. With the new FIFA/UEFA calendar, there is less time to work with players, less friendlies and therefore less on-the-job training. Luck of the draw has never been more important.

Delaney's legacy is ****e, in the bin, and deservedly so. But if he's pulled the plug on this pair, he's stood up and made the right call. He needs to display some balls again and take responsibility for this appointment, not farm it out to some deadbeat.

McCarthy is a sure candidate. Stephen Kenny is a sure candidate. Brian McDermott is likely to apply, as he's said himself over the past years, it's a job he covets.

We've made a serious mistake in appointing a novice previously like Staunton. We made a calculated mistake with Brian Kerr. If we're picking a novice manager, or a coach who's never been a head coach, then it's vital they have coaching experience. The same for the coaching staff. We can't overload it with former international favourites just for the sake of it. There's too much at stake. Just because Duffer is sound, does well with easy analysis on the tv and coaches the Rovers 15s does not merit him being a coach on the National Senior team.

Lee Carsley and Steven Reid might not be as sexy names, but their reputations in our target market (the Uk) is very good. Personally I'd have Cunningham involved in some way, shape or form.

I've always advocated looking to the continent, not to obscure managers/coaches, but calculated choices whether they are young or old. Decide what it is that we want. Is it immediate results with little other than short-term gain, or is it a style of football that might involve short-term pain (as we're feeling now anyway) but has medium and long-term benefits for the potentially significant number of talented kids coming through?
Involve Ruud Dokter - the guy is one of the cogs that the underage system is starting to show green shoots from. Look at guys who achieved notable results with unfashionable (non-money) clubs; how did they play football? how did they manage their resources?

I would like to see Stephen Kenny get it, and I think Lee Carsley would be the perfect foil for him. Carsley is a no-nonsense mother****er, and if someone was stepping out of line with Kenny in terms of respect, Carsley would sort that out. A different situation to the one that Kerr found with Hughton, as Chris Hughton wouldn't have been that type from what I've heard.

The problem I have with Mick, or more the problem that I can see with Mick, is that while you'd never say he's arrogant in the vein that ONeill is (or perhaps snobbish is a better expression), but he is very sure of himself. And while his interactions with local journos in England seem funny, it's the type of thing that could grate quickly with the media here, and personally, I'm not a fan of going back to something that's been done before. Sure it was a unique situation that led to Mick's sacking/resigning in 02. However he certainly has proved that he's capable of a team playing decent football and getting decent results with paltry resources.
A concern I'd have is that non of his teams in the last few years have over-achieved significantly, and mostly, mostly, the championship teams have been rigid enough to the 442 or the 4411.

As for other candidates, I'd have to think about it for a while.

[Stuttgart88]

Fair points Kingdom.


Anyway, RTE saying the decision is "by mutual consent". Hopefully that means it counts as a resignation and they won't demand their contracts being paid out.

[Kingdom]

I get a specific breaking news feed on the phone and it emphatically says that they resigned.

By the way, PassingInterest's post makes a very fair point. I'm not sure this is the right time in Stephen Kenny's career to be considering the Ireland job (that sounds fantastical when reading it back).
They've the chance of doing something fantastic at Dundalk with the right draw. and he's still very young despite managing at the top domestic level for a long time.

[Eminence Grise]

Can't beat one of those periodic "who will it be" debates!

It's somewhere on the football fan's hierarchy of happiness alright.;)

[shakermaker1982]

Anybody but McCarthy. I’m sick to death of hearing about 2002.

Give it to Kenny. Let’s see if the LOI can make a go of it. Everything else has been tried without success

[Fixer82]

Did somebody say Owen Coyle?

[DeLorean]

Well, he refused to sign the new contract with Ireland until he was sure he wasn't being hired by Stoke (or anybody else). That's as good as making your self available, but in a politically savvy way.

The players got the message. They haven't played for him since.

There's no doubt he was interested in the Stoke job when approached, and could well have taken it if the terms had been more favourable to him. I still don't see how that's MON applying for jobs, or even putting the feelers out, and Stoke are still the only club you've mentioned despite indicating numerous clubs in your first post. I'm not really sure it's the reason for the poor performances either, we've been on a downward spiral basically since Austria away, confidence was shattered by the Denmark drubbing and there's been a lot of experimentation since then too. Accusing the players of downing tools is a leap too far I think.

[DeLorean]

Personally I'd have Cunningham involved in some way, shape or form.

Just out of curiosity, why Cunningham? He doesn't seem to have done too much of note in a coaching sense and comes across half demented, although that can sometimes work well in management!


The problem I have with Mick, or more the problem that I can see with Mick, is that while you'd never say he's arrogant in the vein that ONeill is (or perhaps snobbish is a better expression), but he is very sure of himself. And while his interactions with local journos in England seem funny, it's the type of thing that could grate quickly with the media here

That's actually a very good shout, Mick sure likes to pat himself on the back.

[seanfhear]

Did somebody say Owen Coyle?A few years back he was a rising star . Where did it all go wrong ?

[Kingdom]

Just out of curiosity, why Cunningham? He doesn't seem to have done too much of note in a coaching sense and comes across half demented, although that can sometimes work well in management!

I just like the guy. No heirs or graces about him. Has the badges. has done low-level unpaid stuff in England, and has shown willingness to get involved in the set-up here in some form or another.
I don't judge him on what I've seen on Tv because as you know I don't tend to watch it, but I listen to him on the radio plenty where he has more time to deliver the message, and I think he speaks perfect sense.


That's actually a very good shout, Mick sure likes to pat himself on the back.

Thank you. I meant it in the context of, if things don't go well and the questions start flooding in, it could get ugly quick, particurly in their are hacks who have scores to settle....mind you the only that comes to mind is Arbour Hill having his rectum expanded quicker than a water balloon in a Mexican summer.

[Fixer82]

Don’t understand people mentioning ex-Ireland players with no management experience.

We need someone with pedigree and plenty of top class experience who is up to date with the modern footballer.

Maybe....Noel King? 😲

[NeverFeltBetter]

I'll never forget the Germany or Italy results, but this is a year overdue. That McClean chance at 1-0 against Denmark will always be a serious sliding doors moment. It's a shame the O'Neill/Keane partnership stuck around to the point that fans were baying for their removal, when a "mutual consent" after the play-off hammering would have secured a more positive remembrance.

[The Fly]

Lee Carsley and Steven Reid might not be as sexy names, but their reputations in our target market (the Uk) is very good. Personally I'd have Cunningham involved in some way, shape or form...



...at this particular moment in time.

[tricky_colour]

As well as who do we want we also have to consider who would take it.

I said McCarthy, currently propping up the Championships would see it as an attractive proposition.

Kenny might not be so Keane (pun intended ;)).