Martin O'Neill and Roy Keane

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http://www.balls.ie/football/martin-oneill-resign/300481

[Kingdom]

Guys and gals, this is a huge moment for the senior football team, if O'Neill is in fact going to go. How the FAI react is massive.

[nigel-harps1954]

It'd be interesting if Roy Keane got the job until the end of this campaign. We might actually see a bit more use of the midfield.

[back of the net]

Agreed

If it happens....are we looking at Roy to take over for the remaining games though?

[jbyrne]

Guys and gals, this is a huge moment for the senior football team, if O'Neill is in fact going to go. How the FAI react is massive.

they should react by replacing him with no 2 on that betting list neil lennon

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

The earlier the search for a new manager, the better. It's not working out. To get 1 point out of 6 against that Scottish team is beyond embarrassing. Would you trust that *redacted* with Ireland going in as 4th seeds? I wouldn't.

Trapattoni & O'Neill were populist appointments. Ireland should go in a different direction now; they should look very carefully at what Iceland, NI & Belgium have done when they start interviewing other managers.

Mick McCarthy wouldn't be bad either, but is he the right option or the safe option?

[Charlie Darwin]

Calling him a muppet is completely uncalled for.

[Kingdom]

they should react by replacing him with no 2 on that betting list neil lennon

Can I ask why? What has Lennon shown that suggests he is anything different to Martin O'Neill?

[jbyrne]

Can I ask why? What has Lennon shown that suggests he is anything different to Martin O'Neill?

youth and enthusiasm among other things.

[Bottle of Tonic]

I'd be totally fine with him going. I'd actually like it to happen. And it pains me to say that as about 10 years ago I was as good as in love with the man.

[Kingdom]

The earlier the search for a new manager, the better. It's not working out. [QUOTE]

I agree completely.

[QUOTE]
Trapattoni & O'Neill were populist appointments. Ireland should go in a different direction now; they should look very carefully at what Iceland, NI & Belgium have done when they start interviewing other managers.

Trapattoni was a superb appointment. That first campaign was exactly what we needed at the right time. Defensively solid, and unbeaten. What was then needed was to build upon that and develop. That has not happened.


Mick McCarthy wouldn't be bad either, but is he the right option or the safe option?

Too much baggage. I've no issue with him, but I think to go back to Mick would be a mistake. There are better options out there.

If this does come to pass, then you'd have to imagine, Walford, Guppy and McDonagh will go too. That would leave Keane needing to introduce his own staff. That's a dodgy road to go down.

I'll throw a name out now if we're going for former British based players. Chris Hughton.

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youth and enthusiasm among other things.

True

But is Irish football at a stage where it can afford to take a chance and a relatively inexperienced manager? i think not

[Kingdom]

I'm surprised by you JB. If Lennon is the natural appointment, then why wouldn't Leicester be appointing him ahead of O'Neill?

I just do not see the clamour for Lennon, I don't "get" it.

[jbyrne]

I'm surprised by you JB. If Lennon is the natural appointment, then why wouldn't Leicester be appointing him ahead of O'Neill?

I just do not see the clamour for Lennon, I don't "get" it.

maybe Leicester are making a mistake appointing oneill?
I didn't take the betting on the Leicester job as a barometer of who our best option would be to replace oneill. our options will be limited and lennon would be a good fit out of those options. ideally id like mick back but (a) we don't deserve him after the treatment he received post 2002 wc and (b) I am not sure returning managers ever work

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

I don't think either Mick or Roy were fully at fault in 2002.

I mean Mick could have handled it a bit better too, instead of throwing Roy under the bus and adding fuel to the fire.

It was just poor form from everyone. Unprofessional build up, bad man-management, Roy's ego...

* Look at John Delaney's carry on 13 years later and ask have things really changed that much.

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Roy might be too busy taking paddy power to court to take the Job...

[DannyInvincible]

It'd surely be unlikely, but can we definitely assume he will leave if he takes the Leicester job and won't double-job until the end of the campaign?

[jbyrne]

It'd surely be unlikely, but can we definitely assume he will leave if he takes the Leicester job and won't double-job until the end of the campaign?

that just would not be one bit acceptable at all

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It'd surely be unlikely, but can we definitely assume he will leave if he takes the Leicester job and won't double-job until the end of the campaign?



Hadnt thought of that - wud be worried if he did

But would think he will completely quit Ireland if he goes to Leicester

Sad to say it - but will be happy if he moves on - his tenure has been a bit of a disaster considering the wages he is getting paid

[BonnieShels]

maybe Leicester are making a mistake appointing oneill?
I didn't take the betting on the Leicester job as a barometer of who our best option would be to replace oneill. our options will be limited and lennon would be a good fit out of those options. ideally id like mick back but (a) we don't deserve him after the treatment he received post 2002 wc and (b) I am not sure returning managers ever work

The Dutch do it well... sometimes.

[back of the net]

So are we looking at more Denis O Brien funding for the next appointment?


Is it a case of paying big money to get a big name in or are we looking at something different ?

[ger121]

they should react by replacing him with no 2 on that betting list neil lennon

For the love of god no! Is that the extent of our ambitions?

[Kingdom]

It'd surely be unlikely, but can we definitely assume he will leave if he takes the Leicester job and won't double-job until the end of the campaign?

You shut your dirty mouth.

[BonnieShels]

For the love of god no! Is that the extent of our ambitions?

Yes. We are only a small country etc.

[Stuttgart88]

I don't think either Mick or Roy were fully at fault in 2002.

I mean Mick could have handled it a bit better too, instead of throwing Roy under the bus and adding fuel to the fire.

It was just poor form from everyone. Unprofessional build up, bad man-management, Roy's ego...

* Look at John Delaney's carry on 13 years later and ask have things really changed that much.
It's like the Greek crisis. You can argue about blame and root causes but the denouement was/is a complete crisis of leadership on all sides.

[Kingdom]

So far elsewhere I've seen people look for Bob Bradley, Michael Laudrup, Jose Pinto. I'd be very happy with Bob Bradley. Laudrup, I wouldn't be against an appointment, purely for the type of game his teams play, but I think we could do better.
Pinto was surely as tongue-in-cheek as Conte.

[Stuttgart88]

I'd be happy for O'Neill to go. I think his ideas are out of date. I'd also be happy for Keane to take sole charge. We can debate the merits of his club experience but I think he'd have a more positive and contemporary approach. O'Neill pi$$ed me off from the start with his public undermining of the squad's ability.

[jbyrne]

For the love of god no! Is that the extent of our ambitions?

all a matter of opinion as to lennons credentials for the job but anyone who thinks a long line of good options will be looking to take on the job is deluded


O'Neill pi$$ed me off from the start with his public undermining of the squad's ability.

did he really state this too often? wasn't aware of it if it happened

[DeLorean]

I'd go for the easy approach. Just upgrade Keane to manager, see how he does for the rest of the campaign. If we do the necessary against Gibraltar and Georgia and something we haven't in an age against either Germany or Poland then let him at it. He would be a risk obviously but then so was Gary Speed at Wales for different reasons (inexperience). At least the long ball approach would be phased out or scrapped, one would imagine. He seems to have the respect/fear of the players and there would be a degree of continuity without having to start from scratch. There have been some signs of progress in the last couple of games so we may as well try to continue on our (admittedly slight) upward curve.

[DeLorean]

Just to counter that slightly in relation to Stutts point, Keane hasn't been overly complimentary about out playing pool recently either.

[mark12345]

His tenure has been a disaster? Really. What could he have done any different with this team?
There are players in this team who have should have been got rid of while Trap was in charge. No new players were blooded and then O'Neill was left with a certain group he had to proceed with in order to try to gain qualification.
Make no mistake about it, Martin O'Neill is one of the best managers out there. His time at the helm of the Ireland team will not change that one jot.

[Stuttgart88]

Wow Mark, for a guy who likes his football smooth and pure Im surprised you can't find fault in O'Neill's style and even selections.

[zero]

I'd go for the easy approach. Just upgrade Keane to manager, see how he does for the rest of the campaign. If we do the necessary against Gibraltar and Georgia and something we haven't in an age against either Germany or Poland then let him at it. He would be a risk obviously but then so was Gary Speed at Wales for different reasons (inexperience). At least the long ball approach would be phased out or scrapped, one would imagine. He seems to have the respect/fear of the players and there would be a degree of continuity without having to start from scratch. There have been some signs of progress in the last couple of games so we may as well try to continue on our (admittedly slight) upward curve.

i go along with this largely, unless some very appealing manager throws his hat in the ring.

my initial reaction on hearing the news was that i really hope it's true followed by 'i hope roy doesnt get the job!'. but if he gets the gig until the end of the campaign he can have no complaints - there's a small chance he might turn things around as he did in his sunderland role.

is there anyone who doesn't want o'neill to go?

edit: just saw mark12345's post so evidently yes...

[GypsyBlackCat]

Judging by MON record at Sunderland and Ireland, this could be a step backwards Leicester. As I said at the time when he left SAFC, he was the right man but at the wrong time. It's looks like the same with RoI. O'Neill looks like an old fashion manager lost in the modern game and he isn't quite the same with John Robertson. He looks like he's lost the fight and passion he was famous for.

As for Ireland, I'd like to see us go for a Lars Lagerback type manager. I think we need to look throughout world football for the next manager. We went with big name managers on the last two and infairness Trap was a success to a certain extent. But big names don't always work.

[Stuttgart88]

Yes I know that but it's a question of degrees. O'Neill was much worse and said it before we even kicked a ball.

[Charlie Darwin]

His tenure has been a disaster? Really. What could he have done any different with this team?
There are players in this team who have should have been got rid of while Trap was in charge.
You answered your own question there. He could have used the near-12 months he had to prepare for his first competitive match to overhaul the squad.

[jbyrne]

You answered your own question there. He could have used the near-12 months he had to prepare for his first competitive match to overhaul the squad.

honestly who do you think is out there who would improve our squad?
my main problem with oneill is that he has so far failed to get the most out of our better players in particular. having said that I don't think his tenure has been the disaster some make it out to be.

[mark12345]

Fair enough, leave Keane for the remainder of this campaign. But I think we all agree even if we do perform miracles and qualify, we are not going anywhere in the Finals.
We are way beyond the time and need for a completely different approach to the grass roots game in Ireland (youth football I'm talking about). I've said it here for quite a few years now - if we devoted a portion of the money we are paying to the big name managers to five or six top notch South American youth coaches (look at Chile for Heaven's sake) we would be investing so much more in our future. Let those coaches teach our coaches the finer points of the technical game - something we used to have in Ireland 40 or 50 years ago (believe it or not) but like England have lost it and cannot seem to get it back. I keep hearing about top level Irish coaches coming through, but in all honesty can any of them bring to the table the sort of skills that an Alexis Sanchez, Neymar or Sergio Aguero has (in order to teach those type of skills to our young kids). I think not? So let's start thinking about a whole new approach to the youth set up so that we can reap dividends in fifteen years time.

[DeLorean]

Yes I know that but it's a question of degrees. O'Neill was much worse and said it before we even kicked a ball.

Yeah and I get the impression Keane wasn't questioning the talent a such, more the desire of players to make the top.

[mark12345]

I can't find much fault with O'Neill himself Stutts. Remember the brilliant performances he got out of Celtic and Leicester during his tenures there.
Like everyone else I questioned his withdrawing Hoolahan against Scotland, and one or two other personnel choices during his time as Ireland manager. But by and large there is very little else he could have done with this team

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

There have been eyebrow raising tactical and personnel decisions in pretty much every single game.

[mark12345]

Eh......no he couldn't. He only had a few matches to work with and although he could have brought in a couple of different players, the table was pretty much set for him. He needed to focus on qualifying for the Euros as his top priority. And in all honesty he did not / does not have too many sharp tools to work with anyway.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Michael O'Neill had no problems getting the best out of Kyle Lafferty & Oliver Norwood.

[Kingdom]

I can't find much fault with O'Neill himself Stutts. Remember the brilliant performances he got out of Celtic and Leicester during his tenures there.


Like everyone else I questioned his withdrawing Hoolahan against Scotland, and one or two other personnel choices during his time as Ireland manager. But by and large there is very little else he could have done with this team

Does not compute.

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Eh......no he couldn't. He only had a few matches to work with and although he could have brought in a couple of different players, the table was pretty much set for him. He needed to focus on qualifying for the Euros as his top priority. And in all honesty he did not / does not have too many sharp tools to work with anyway.


He had 7/8 friendlies over a 1.5 year period before the euro quals kicked off

[Eminence Grise]

Calling him a muppet is completely uncalled for.

I blame gonzo journalism myself.

[DeLorean]

Look Mark, at the end of the day he's achieved nothing with us and it seems he is abandoning ship halfway through a poor first campaign, and for who... Leicester fecking City. That's how big a job we were to him, less than Leicester, I don't care what his history is there. I felt it in his body language anyway to be honest, even if the mellowing with age explanation was a valid one. Mick McCarthy isn't perfect, but the one thing I always felt with him is that he saw the job as a big deal, a really big deal and an absolute honour. I'd be lying if I said I got the same vibe off O'Neill, in fact I got it a lot more off Roy Keane in a lesser role.

[mark12345]

You're reading way too much into the manager's contribution or lack of. Fact is we do not have a defence worthy of the name (Seamus Coleman is the only quality player - Robbie Brady though quite brilliant at times is a makeshift left back).
O'Shea, Wilson are not international quality (the comparison others make to Northern Ireland and Wales and Scotland getting the best of similar type players is great but does not apply in O'Shea's case at least because he has been there forever and has failed to do the job on most occasions) and Given is past it (but he has more experience than Westwood and is playing at the top level still).

A midfield with the likes of Whelan preferred (a legitimate weapon to use against MON) cannot expect to function properly, and a posse of superficial players further forward (Walters, McLean, McGeady, Long - all capable of very good performances at times but far too patchy at international level) and an aging world class striker in Robbie, and it is not hard to see why we are struggling. You can talk about all the tactical and personnel decisions you want but at the end of the day these 11 or 14 professionals are the ones who take to the field for any given international and if they are not performing then it does not matter who the manager is

[nigel-harps1954]

You're reading way too much into the manager's contribution or lack of. Fact is we do not have a defence worthy of the name (Seamus Coleman is the only quality player - Robbie Brady though quite brilliant at times is a makeshift left back).
O'Shea, Wilson are not international quality (the comparison others make to Northern Ireland and Wales and Scotland getting the best of similar type players is great but does not apply in O'Shea's case at least because he has been there forever and has failed to do the job on most occasions) and Given is past it (but he has more experience than Westwood and is playing at the top level still).

A midfield with the likes of Whelan preferred (a legitimate weapon to use against MON) cannot expect to function properly, and a posse of superficial players further forward (Walters, McLean, McGeady, Long - all capable of very good performances at times but far too patchy at international level) and an aging world class striker in Robbie, and it is not hard to see why we are struggling. You can talk about all the tactical and personnel decisions you want but at the end of the day these 11 or 14 professionals are the ones who take to the field for any given international and if they are not performing then it does not matter who the manager is

So, what you're saying is, unless we have players like Iniesta, Messi, Ronaldo, De Gea, etc. then we're not going to get anywhere?

[Eminence Grise]

Can't say I'd mourn his departure all that much. The tactics have been sterile, we've had players in the wrong positions, and the constant public rubbishing of our players has to have had some impact on morale and confidence (I'm more of the John Lambie 'tell him he's Pele and get him back on' school of motivation). Let Keane use the rest of the games as an audition - we're all but out of realistic contention anyway. If he does well, keep him on; if he doesn't a new manager will have next year's friendlies to get warmed into the job.