Martin O'Neill and Roy Keane

[brine3]

I'd broadly agree with that, but I think it's worth noting the possibility that the FAI have had feelers out for a new manager, but there's no-one available who's better and within budget

He's on 1 million a year. Our assistant manager is on 500k.

Iceland's manager is on 400k.

Capable and affordable international managers are out there, but the FAI's search for a manager involves calling up Ray Houghton who logs on to Paddy Power and checks out the odds list.

[OwlsFan]

The Dutch would call O'Neill's approach toevalsvoetbal ('coincidence football').

How have they been getting on in the last two campaigns ? The Irish would call their approach "geenkwalificatievoetbal".

[brine3]

That's correct, they didn't qualify.

What exactly is your point?

[backstothewall]

I'd have changed the manager but sin é. I hope he is massively successfully in the next campaign. Now that the contract has been signed I'm prepared to get behind him.

[liamoo11]

He's on 1 million a year. Our assistant manager is on 500k.

Iceland's manager is on 400k.

Capable and affordable international managers are out there, but the FAI's search for a manager involves calling up Ray Houghton who logs on to Paddy Power and checks out the odds list.

Isn't he on 2 million

[Diggs246]

Im a big fam of Mon, but i have to say if TOD slapped him across the face, i wouldnt complain

[Fizzer]

Another disgraceful interview from O’Neill with Tony O’Donoghue again today.Choking in outrage at being asked basic questions.He could do with getting over himself.Ego before country again for Marty.

[Diggs246]

Can you imagine if Eamon Dunphy interviewed Martin O'Neill, and he wasn't allowed walk out. .. that would be TV

[Olé Olé]

I really thought that was disgusting, not least because Tony works for the national broadcaster and the interview would be broadcast to the Irish public, yet MON still manages to say Tony had enough of his time and he was going to move on.

How Martin was able to recall Tony saying "hard luck" and spin something out of that in this interview months later is a bit worrying too. How many times must he have tossed those words around in his own head to come out that passively aggressive towards TOD?

[jbyrne]

I really thought that was disgusting, not least because Tony works for the national broadcaster and the interview would be broadcast to the Irish public, yet MON still manages to say Tony had enough of his time and he was going to move on.

How Martin was able to recall Tony saying "hard luck" and spin something out of that in this interview months later is a bit worrying too. How many times must he have tossed those words around in his own head to come out that passively aggressive towards TOD?

most of our media love to continually chisel away at our national manager and then one bites back and its all shock and horror. it works both ways and some of TODs interviews over the last few years have been agenda driven and tabloid like.... surely our national broadcaster should be above this kind of George hook type punditry and interviewing style?

the two of them do need to move on though and kevin kilbanes suggestion on OTB last night that FAI and RTE hierarchy should sort a truce is spot on

[backstothewall]

Trapattoni, Noel King and Martin O'Neill have all come to the conclusion that Tony O'Donoghue is a pain in the hole. I don't remember Martin O'Neill having this sort of issue with an other journalist.

To me the most likely scenario seems that Tony O'Donoghue is a pain in the hole

[osarusan]

To me the most likely scenario seems that Tony O'Donoghue is a pain in the hole
I can only go on what I see in the interviews, and from those, I think TOD gets unfairly criticised.

A lot of what I see is him asking reasonable questions (even if they are critical of a bad performance or result) and getting ****y answers back.

[DeLorean]

I can only go on what I see in the interviews, and from those, I think TOD gets unfairly criticised.

A lot of what I see is him asking reasonable questions (even if they are critical of a bad performance or result) and getting ****y answers back.

I don't see it that way, even though a lot of the questions are reasonable. Some of the sympathy for Tony O'Donoghue is laughable I think. Sure, he looks the innocent victim when some of the interviews are taken in isolation, but anybody who has been following it closely for four or five years would know he's made his own bed to a large degree.

He asked Trap if he was going to resign five minutes after the Alaba equaliser in Dublin, he started badgering Noel King (ffs) about playing Kevin Doyle (out of position allegedly!) instead of Aiden McGeady, he needlessly asked MON if the Denmark game was "a humiliation" straight after that match too.

They're just a selection of his more ridiculous highlights, he's also been relentlessly pursuing Dunphy's 'Wes Hoolahan' agenda, even when the reasons for his exclusion had been well established (regardless of whether we agree with them or not).

TOD was up against it from day one, partly because of his own interviewing reputation I would think, but possibly more because of RTÉ facilitating a witch hunt against every Irish manager for a generation.

I don't think O'Neill is coming out of this too well himself by the way, but the 'Poor Tony' narrative is miles wide of the mark.

[OwlsFan]

Trapattoni, Noel King and Martin O'Neill have all come to the conclusion that Tony O'Donoghue is a pain in the hole. I don't remember Martin O'Neill having this sort of issue with an other journalist.

To me the most likely scenario seems that Tony O'Donoghue is a pain in the hole

The Agenda of the RTE Panel for the past 30 odds years has been to attack the Irish manager, no matter who the incumbent is. TOD is the extension of the Panel and asks their questions. MON knows this.

That said MON could deal with the whole thing a bit better but which one of us when the way in which we do our job is questioned wouldn't bristle with anger. I regard it as entertainment, although I note that almost 70% of people in an RTE Poll think MON owes TOD an apology. https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/watch-martin-oneill-accuses-rts-tony-odonoghue-of-real-verbal-attack-in-postdenmark-interview-during-frosty-exchange-today-36526308.html

That's correct, they didn't qualify.

What exactly is your point?

The point is you're using the Dutch as a stick to beat MON but they have been in decline for a few years now.

[osarusan]

He asked Trap if he was going to resign five minutes after the Alaba equaliser in Dublin, he started badgering Noel King (ffs) about playing Kevin Doyle (out of position allegedly!) instead of Aiden McGeady, he needlessly asked MON if the Denmark game was "a humiliation" straight after that match too.

I just went and watched that interview.

TOD: We had more possession, but in terms of penetration, maybe the lack of natural wingers, was that an issue for us?

NK: Germany scored 3 goals, we scored 3 goals, don't talk to me about that, will you please. Don't talk to me about that.

Ridiculous answer to a legitimate question in my opinion. Yes, Tony persisted with that line of questioning, but what he supposed to do (as a journalist and an interviewer), not ask a question because the manager told him not to ask it?

I doubt he is bothered by the whole thing. If anything, it secures his place as the interviewer, because RTE don't give a crap about anything other than ratings.

I don't feel any need to have sympathy for TOD, so don't include me in whatever posters you think are spreading a 'Poor Tony' narrative.

If he is asking unfair questions, then I have no problem with the interviewee getting *****ly with him. But if he is asking reasonable questions and getting unreasonable answers back, then I think criticism is unfair.

EDIT: Also, I think it is bizarre to describe it as 'Dunphy's 'Wes Hoolahan' agenda'. Many more people than Dunphy (including plenty on this forum) questioned what they saw as O'Neill's underuse of him. Again, I think it's absolutely legitimate to ask why such a player is not being involved, considering the way in which we gave up possession and invited pressure so readily.

[geysir]

That post draw interview with ToD was tetchy and O'Neill didn't handle it good, ability to manage Ireland now is not about O'Neill's impressive past record as a player or a manager. And just how many times does O'Neill play the "look at my record" card.
After the Denmark defeat, the first question put to him was "has your luck run out?" which imo is the most ignorant and insulting question to ask of O'Neill or even any manager who loses out at the final hurdle. It ranks just ahead of "your team were finally exposed today?" in the stupidity stakes.

[DeLorean]

I just went and watched that interview.

TOD: We had more possession, but in terms of penetration, maybe the lack of natural wingers, was that an issue for us?

NK: Germany scored 3 goals, we scored 3 goals, don't talk to me about that, will you please. Don't talk to me about that.

Ridiculous answer to a legitimate question in my opinion.

There's no doubt King was a bit of a loose cannon, and like O'Neill didn't come out of the exchange very well either. But also like O'Neill, King was ready (pre-empting even) Tony's negative line of questioning, presumably heavily influenced by his pals back in the studio.


Yes, Tony persisted with that line of questioning, but what he supposed to do (as a journalist and an interviewer), not ask a question because the manager told him not to ask it?

It was an unnecessary line of questioning under the circumstances - a comfortable win in a dead rubber under a caretaker manager. And teams play without what Tony considers natural wingers all the time without it being questioned, and he was just completely wrong and uneducated by not realising Stokes and Doyle had often played in those positions anyway.


I don't feel any need to have sympathy for TOD, so don't include me in whatever posters you think are spreading a 'Poor Tony' narrative.

I wasn't including you, or any other posters for that matter. It's all over the media/social media, as OwlsFan's poll from the Independent illustrates above.

[osarusan]

We'll just agree to disagree I think.

[Charlie Darwin]

Tony O'Donoghue is a pain in the hole. Which is great because that's what journalists are supposed to be. It's not in any of our interests for interviewers to blow smoke up O'Neill's hole.

[DeLorean]

Nobody is suggesting that he blows smoke up O'Neill's hole. What's going on at the moment isn't in anybody's interests, especially the supporters.

[geysir]

Well Martin thanks for coming and tough luck on the prognosis, did you realise at that moment when the doctor told you that your cancer was terminal, that you've wasted most of your life?

[jbyrne]

It's not in any of our interests for interviewers to blow smoke up O'Neill's hole.

neither is sticking a microphone in a managers face 5 mins after a difficult result asking them about their resignation. what other professions (apart from politicians!) would tolerate that?

[Charlie Darwin]

Probably not many, but it's part of the territory.

[DeLorean]

EDIT: Also, I think it is bizarre to describe it as 'Dunphy's 'Wes Hoolahan' agenda'. Many more people than Dunphy (including plenty on this forum) questioned what they saw as O'Neill's underuse of him. Again, I think it's absolutely legitimate to ask why such a player is not being involved, considering the way in which we gave up possession and invited pressure so readily.

I only saw this bit now, as it was added after we agreed to disagree. :)

There's no doubt Hoolahan is a popular player amongst supporters and I'd normally (maybe even always) want to see him in the starting line-up too. I don't think it's bizarre to suggest Dunphy brings that to another level though, beyond all practical reason. O'Neill also made it very clear early in the time that he sees some games as being suitable for Hoolahan's inclusion and some games where he'd prefer to go a different route. Personally I didn't particularly agree with O'Neill's logic but that's what he's paid for.

When Hoolahan doesn't start we all know it's because O'Neill wants to go with a more physical approach, or that he doesn't trust him fully away from home, or that he's doesn't play two games in a short amount of time, etc., etc. O'Neill (or Trap) shouldn't have to explain this every time.

[backstothewall]

Nobody is suggesting that he blows smoke up O'Neill's hole. What's going on at the moment isn't in anybody's interests, especially the supporters.

100% agreed. My biggest criticism of TOD is that the questions he asked are of very little interest to me. The Stoke story has been done to death, as has the Denmark game and the contract saga. It's all yesterdays news now.

He had the opportunity of an interview with O'Neill. Given what we are hearing about O'Neill bringing in younger players for the upcoming squads the big question I wanted asked was who are the new players he is looking at? Can't for the life of me work out why that wasn't asked.

[osarusan]

I only saw this bit now, as it was added after we agreed to disagree. :)

Actually no, it was added before your first reply (but maybe while you were replying).

The later edit was to get round the swear filter for the word *****ly.

[seanfhear]

Is blowing smoke up someone's hole a practical activity ........

Sorry for going off topic but one would like to know .......

If RTE were serious about Football Punditry would Dunphy be on the panel . When did that man last do something credible in Football .

RTE do not take Football seriously.....Dunphy on the panel tells it own story....he is in RTE’s Court as the Fool / Court Jester .....

[SwanVsDalton]

If I remember right, the seeds for the Noel King vs TOD thing were sown post Germany match a few days before that when TOD asked him about playing Stokes (and someone else on the wing who was out of position) and King corrected him, firmly but relatively beningly.

Then Dunphy completely hatcheted King in the post-match analysis over his line-up, the shape, not playing Wes and Andy Reid and it came back around again.

It's not entirely fair to say TOD is looking to agitate managers but it's not unfair to say his questions tend to parrot whatever controversial line comes out of the panel's (or, possibly more accurately, Dunphy's) mouth...

There's a balance to be found and, god knows we could use some actual answers from MON, but TOD has leaned far too far into becoming an avuncular heckler, a seemingly innocuous dealer of toxic passive aggressiveness. Which has led to him becoming essentially worthless as an actual interviewer imo.

Regardless, O'Neill's effort during the week was really, really poor. There's better ways to deal with this.

[tetsujin1979]

O'Donoghue got a reputation for taking a hard line with Trapattoni, who's English wasn't strong enough to deal with it, and was criticised for it here and elsewhere online. He continued in the same vein with King for the games he was in charge of, and kept it up with O'Neill. There's no doubt in my mind that O'Neill would have been appraised of this well before his first encounter and, as a student of law, is more than capable of dealing with O'Donoghue in a manner he was not accustomed to while interviewing the previous two managers.

Which leads us to the current situation, neither of them willing to back down from their current stance - O'Donoghue with his aggressive form of questioning and O'Neill's unwillingness to accept it.

As has been suggested, the best thing for this is for the higher ups in both organisations to come to an understanding and relay this to their respective employees.

BTW in one of O'Neill's first post match interviews, when he made it clear he wasn't going to stand for this type of questioning, when it went back to the studio Dunphy criticised him for that, he said something like "I had my issues with Trapattoni, but he was a gentleman and would never have treated an interviewer like that". I know I'm misquoting him, but he definitely used the word "gentleman". I just thought, "this isn't the first time O'Donoghue has taken this line in a post match interview, but because he was called on it, now you choose to speak about it??"

[irishfan86]

O'Donoghue's line of questioning and method of asking totally fair IMO. O'Neill is entitled to be annoyed by it but I don't think he realizes how he comes across to average people watching the TV.

Would be very strange for "higher ups" at a broadcaster to interfere with completely professional journalism IMO (whether it's tasteful or not).

The more sensible option if these guys have genuine beef with each other would be to have an off-the-record clear the air chat over a beer -- would give them a chance to explain their perspectives and perhaps in future we could have firm but fair questions, and a manager confident enough to actually answer the questions, even if he doesn't agree with the tone in which they're asked.

[osarusan]

O'Donoghue's line of questioning and method of asking totally fair IMO.

I don't think he is 'totally' fair, there are times I think he goes too far, and deserves criticism for that.

A lot of it comes down to whether somebody thinks a question is reasonable or not, and the opinion on O'Neill's response to a question will depend on whether somebody thinks it was a fair question in the first place. Disagreement over whether a question is reasonable or not is inevitable, I suppose.

If TOD does something that I think is unfair or unreasonable, I'll willingly admit that. That's TOD's fault, simple as that. No excuse for it.

But if people are agreeing that on the occasions that TOD's questions are reasonable, and MON's response was wrong, then I think that's MON's fault, simple as that. I don't think that there is any logic to attempts to justify or excuse MON's response on such occasions by referencing previous interviews, other journalists, interviews of previous managers etc.

I think at this stage MON goes into each interview incredibly guarded and wary, expecting a hand grenade in every question, and interpreting them in the worst light, and the interviews end up being horrible. I think the whole 'hard luck' episode is an example of that.

[pineapple stu]

Think it's worth adding that 99% of post-match interviews are utterly pointless. Managers and players are, by and large, too well trained in saying bland nothings.

[jbyrne]

100% agreed. My biggest criticism of TOD is that the questions he asked are of very little interest to me. The Stoke story has been done to death, as has the Denmark game and the contract saga. It's all yesterdays news now.

He had the opportunity of an interview with O'Neill. Given what we are hearing about O'Neill bringing in younger players for the upcoming squads the big question I wanted asked was who are the new players he is looking at? Can't for the life of me work out why that wasn't asked.

its not on rtes agenda unless its a controversial potential player ala jack grealish.

spot on post by the way. sums up my feelings too.

edit: and to illustrate my point:
https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2018/0126/936150-ireland-u21-star-rice-on-england-radar/

[DeLorean]

I can't see MON agreeing to keep the peace because as far as he is concerned RTÉ are a bunch of w@nkers who are out to spread negativity and make an Irish football manager's life as unpleasant as possible, regardless of the job they are doing. He'll continue to treat TOD with disdain because he doesn't have any respect for him or the level of footballing intelligence on RTÉ generally. He feels he's above being interrogated by somebody who he sees as not only clueless, but also deliberately disruptive.

I think it's hard enough to fault MON for feeling this way, given RTÉ's history, but I also think he needs to play the game a little smarter. For an intelligent, articulate man he's coming across flustered and out of control. He's turning a lot of people against him at a time that he (and the team) need support more than ever. Maybe try killing Tony with artificial kindness for a while or something.

[Fizzer]

Yeah that's exactly the point Del, Tony is a pain in the hole, of course he is, but the worrying thing is how badly O'Neill has handled him. He should be batted away like a wasp. Instead O'Neill has clearly been going around stewing over some perceived dig Tony had at him pre-interview, months ago, practising what to say, then making a hames of it not unlike Lloyd in Dumb and Dumber. He just looks weak and nutty and he's made a show of himself. Passive-agressive 'what did I say'?? Tony is loving it, because it's making news and it's so flippin easy, push button A to get reaction B. If I were an opposition manager, I'd be looking to exploit that weakness.

[geysir]

When interviewing O'Neill, regardless of who and where, post match, Abbotstown, anywhere, just don't mention the "luck" word.

[seanfhear]

If I remember right, the seeds for the Noel King vs TOD thing were sown post Germany match a few days before that when TOD asked him about playing Stokes (and someone else on the wing who was out of position) and King corrected him, firmly but relatively beningly.

Then Dunphy completely hatcheted King in the post-match analysis over his line-up, the shape, not playing Wes and Andy Reid and it came back around again.

It's not entirely fair to say TOD is looking to agitate managers but it's not unfair to say his questions tend to parrot whatever controversial line comes out of the panel's (or, possibly more accurately, Dunphy's) mouth...

There's a balance to be found and, god knows we could use some actual answers from MON, but TOD has leaned far too far into becoming an avuncular heckler, a seemingly innocuous dealer of toxic passive aggressiveness. Which has led to him becoming essentially worthless as an actual interviewer imo.

Regardless, O'Neill's effort during the week was really, really poor. There's better ways to deal with this.
Does Dunphy need a mouth piece ?....Dunphy has enough mouth and neck not to need any apparatchiks ...........

[The Fly]

Just get Roy to do the interviews with O'Donoghue from time to time. Problem solved.

[tetsujin1979]

interesting
972164363934224385

[backstothewall]

It appeared to me that Tony O'Donoghue and Martin O'Neill shook hands after the pre-match interview there.

Hopefully peace has broken out!

[Kingdom]

Now that dinny o brien has stopped paying the wages the fai will need to watch the pennies. They could well do that by not renewing spoofed contracts with the national team. That way they could invest even further underage.

I cannot see where or why they should pay 2m a year to that management set up.

[OwlsFan]

I see MON has a regular column in the Daily Telegraph for the duration of the WC. In today's column he says we were "pipped at the post" by Denmark. Think there was more than a head in it there Martin. He also says it is so infrequent and special that the players have to make a sacrifice or will regret it for the rest of their career. I wonder does his Assistant regret 2002 "on mature reflection", as the late Brian Lenihan might have put it. Probably not but as a pundit I don't actually mind him.

[nigel-harps1954]

I see MON has a regular column in the Daily Telegraph for the duration of the WC. In today's column he says we were "pipped at the post" by Denmark. Think there was more than a head in it there Martin. He also says it is so infrequent and special that the players have to make a sacrifice or will regret it for the rest of their career. I wonder does his Assistant regret 2002 "on mature reflection", as the late Brian Lenihan might have put it. Probably not but as a pundit I don't actually mind him.

There was a Roy Keane/Patrick Viera show on Sky Sports recently where Keane was asked about this and he said he did have regrets, he'd loved to have played in the World Cup, but that the decision was made and no turning back on it, or something to that effect.

[DeLorean]

That's pretty much bang on Nigel - https://youtu.be/FGAQhCAMV1k?t=29m25s


Interviewer: "If you could do one thing again, what would it be?"

RK: "Play in the World Cup".

[OwlsFan]

Such a shame. When you think how close we came to the quarter-finals in Korea/Japan. At work we all tip toe around difficult people and if I was Mick that's probably what I would have done for the greater good. Easier said than done I know. Ah well, 16 years on we're still left with what might have been as indeed are the two protagonists.

Nothing from MON in the Daily T today but Jamie Carragher has a column. Imagine the DT employing England's best known expectorator.

[backstothewall]

I see MON has a regular column in the Daily Telegraph for the duration of the WC. In today's column he says we were "pipped at the post" by Denmark. Think there was more than a head in it there Martin. He also says it is so infrequent and special that the players have to make a sacrifice or will regret it for the rest of their career. I wonder does his Assistant regret 2002 "on mature reflection", as the late Brian Lenihan might have put it. Probably not but as a pundit I don't actually mind him.

Is he that badly wrong? The record books show we took a sound beating from Denmark but it might have been different. Obviously we'll never know but the biggest 'what if' of the O'Neill era must be what if McClean had put us 2-0 up in that game.

I can only imagine that question will be with James as long as he lives.

[jbyrne]

Is he that badly wrong? The record books show we took a sound beating from Denmark but it might have been different. Obviously we'll never know but the biggest 'what if' of the O'Neill era must be what if McClean had put us 2-0 up in that game.

I can only imagine that question will be with James as long as he lives.

and murphy grazed the post at 1-0

[backstothewall]

My thoughts in the stand watching Mcclean bear down on goal were that if he scores Denmark are dead and buried.

It's hard to draw a direct line from there to Peru v Ireland in Saransk at the weekend, but it would have been a very long way back for Denmark against an Ireland team that would have put 10 men behind the ball and repeated the dose from Copenhagen.

[tetsujin1979]

'I've won top club prizes but disappointment stays with you for much longer' - Martin O'Neill on World Cup regrets (https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/ive-won-top-club-prizes-but-disappointment-stays-with-you-for-much-longer-martin-oneill-on-world-cup-regrets-37129988.html)

Martin O’Neill has had success with Nottingham Forest, Celtic and Ireland but the pain of defeat never leaves him, writes Daniel McDonnell

[DeLorean]

MON has some harsh words for McGeady & Gibson, as well as offering updates on Callum Robinson, Robbie Brady & James McCarthy - https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/no-irish-return-on-the-horizon-for-gibson-and-mcgeady-37224744.html