Martin O'Neill and Roy Keane

[Crosby87]

Paul Lambert likes Martin.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2515817/Martin-ONeill-par-time-European-Cup-winner-Ottmar-Hitzfeld--Aston-Villa-manager-Paul-Lambert.html

[Charlie Darwin]

Promo for a documentary featuring Keane & Vieira on their rivalry, due for broadcast on December 10 on ITV4:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd_waLIBXsw&feature=youtu.be

[geysir]

I'm comatose already.

[SwanVsDalton]

Great idea for a doco but suspect ITV will neuter it to within an inch of total blandness. Still would be nice to see someone having a go at a UK/Irish version of what 30 for 30 is doing in the States.

[Crosby87]

The Drazen Petrovic one is the best.

[Crosby87]

Ireland's crack staff on the move over the next three days.
O'Neill will take in Millwall vs Wigan, then Arsenal and Everton followed by the massive Swansea/ Hull clash on Monday, says the Daily Mail. "I think he may go to more matches this weekend than Trap would go to in 6 months time." Said an anonymous FAI source.
Meanwhile Roy Keane will have pen and paper in hand while he takes in the potentially explosive West Brom /Norwich clash. "Im looking forward to it. Going to have a bag of food with me and I will be all eyes and ears." Said Keane.

[Yard of Pace]

We were taken for a ride by Trap.

[Fixer82]

Ireland's crack staff on the move over the next three days.
O'Neill will take in Millwall vs Wigan, then Arsenal and Everton followed by the massive Swansea/ Hull clash on Monday, says the Daily Mail. "I think he may go to more matches this weekend than Trap would go to in 6 months time." Said an anonymous FAI source.
Meanwhile Roy Keane will have pen and paper in hand while he takes in the potentially explosive West Brom /Norwich clash. "Im looking forward to it. Going to have a bag of food with me and I will be all eyes and ears." Said Keane.

Is this a joke?

[SkStu]

I think both quotes are Fixer. :D

This is the Crosbinator we're talking about!

[Crosby87]

You dont like to snack at sporting events Fixer? I thought you were infamous for your homemade wieners with spicy sauce.

[Charlie Darwin]

You dont like to snack at sporting events Fixer? I thought you were infamous for your homemade wieners with spicy sauce.
Of all of Crosby's baffling posts, this is the most baffling.

[Crosby87]

Well you make it easy by being anonymous, Chuck.
Where are you?

If you are in Dubs as I have heard, I would like to know: How is Crackbird? Too touristy? Is it good?
Sigh, Am i spelling it right, with the CApitals?
I'm serious. I know its a 'touristy spot' but all you Dubliners out there, starting with (I would imagine) Charlie here...
Crackbird? Review?

[CraftyToePoke]

Ireland's crack staff on the move over the next three days.
O'Neill will take in Millwall vs Wigan, then Arsenal and Everton followed by the massive Swansea/ Hull clash on Monday, says the Daily Mail. "I think he may go to more matches this weekend than Trap would go to in 6 months time." Said an anonymous FAI source.
Meanwhile Roy Keane will have pen and paper in hand while he takes in the potentially explosive West Brom /Norwich clash. "Im looking forward to it. Going to have a bag of food with me and I will be all eyes and ears." Said Keane.

Priceless, picturing Keane spitting hunks of Chipsticks everywhere as Long's composure in front of goal vanishes again, while later calmly sucking on a ChupaChoop as he eyes up Nathan Redmond, while mulling which conversational caress is most likely to turn the lad green.

[Fixer82]

You dont like to snack at sporting events Fixer? I thought you were infamous for your homemade wieners with spicy sauce.

Nah I'll leave that to you Yanks :)

[SkStu]

Well you make it easy by being anonymous, Chuck.
Where are you?

If you are in Dubs as I have heard, I would like to know: How is Crackbird? Too touristy? Is it good?
Sigh, Am i spelling it right, with the CApitals?
I'm serious. I know its a 'touristy spot' but all you Dubliners out there, starting with (I would imagine) Charlie here...
Crackbird? Review?

Last two times I've been home I've been to Crackbird. It's flippin brilliant. Yum. Have it on my to do list again next summer. :)

I recommend the chicken.

[Crosby87]

Its tough to read the NY Times on stuff like this. I mean, is Temple Bar a place you would go to? Do any of you go there? Stu the only thing i heard about Crackbird that was negative was that you smell like chicken when you leave. (Which i suppose could be a good thing depending on the person).
I think we need POSH to weigh in on this.

[Charlie Darwin]

Well you make it easy by being anonymous, Chuck.
Where are you?

If you are in Dubs as I have heard, I would like to know: How is Crackbird? Too touristy? Is it good?
Sigh, Am i spelling it right, with the CApitals?
I'm serious. I know its a 'touristy spot' but all you Dubliners out there, starting with (I would imagine) Charlie here...
Crackbird? Review?
Crackbird isn't touristy, it's hipstery. As far as I know, the only way to get a table is to tweet them and if they can fit you in they will. I wouldn't know how it is, I don't eat chicken.

[SkStu]

Crackbird isn't touristy, it's hipstery. As far as I know, the only way to get a table is to tweet them and if they can fit you in they will. I wouldn't know how it is, I don't eat chicken.

Hipsters? Not at all. Tweet reservations? We walked in both times once as a group of 10. Unless something's changed... It's a small enough venue though.

Temple Bar is good for locals and tourists Crosby. I was a town drinker 90% of the time.

[Charlie Darwin]

Ah OK, the tweeting thing was because they give some people free dinners for it.

[tetsujin1979]

Its tough to read the NY Times on stuff like this. I mean, is Temple Bar a place you would go to? Do any of you go there? Stu the only thing i heard about Crackbird that was negative was that you smell like chicken when you leave. (Which i suppose could be a good thing depending on the person).
I think we need POSH to weigh in on this.
wouldnt normally drink in Temple Bar, apart from The Foggy Dew

[Serb]

Weird thing to be debating on a thread about Martin O'Neil and Roy Keane, but Crackbird is excellent. It's basically premium chicken in a bucket. Tastes great, sides are a bit weak (potatoe salad is nice as long as you're ok with it being cold). Sauces go from mild to super spicy (I'm a fan of spice so would go for the habanero side myself). It's not touristy at all (although tourists will of course end up there due to it's proximity to Temple Bar) and you don't have to book a table via Twitter or any other means — just walk in. It is hipstery, but who cares, you're getting delicious chicken.

So... Roy Keane, eh?

[paul_oshea]

Do CrackBird do prawn buckets as well? IS premium, like VIP chicken?

[ArdeeBhoy]

Oh, the irony...
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/dec/09/roy-keane-alex-ferguson-massive-ego?CMP=fb_ot

[SkStu]

Weird thing to be debating on a thread about Martin O'Neil and Roy Keane, but Crackbird is excellent. It's basically premium chicken in a bucket. Tastes great, sides are a bit weak (potatoe salad is nice as long as you're ok with it being cold). Sauces go from mild to super spicy (I'm a fan of spice so would go for the habanero side myself). It's not touristy at all (although tourists will of course end up there due to it's proximity to Temple Bar) and you don't have to book a table via Twitter or any other means — just walk in. It is hipstery, but who cares, you're getting delicious chicken.

the potato croquettes are good.

[DannyInvincible]

Did anyone watch Keane and Viera: Best of Enemies last night? It's available to watch on ITV Player at the minute and I understand RTÉ will also be broadcasting it on the 18th: https://www.itv.com/itvplayer/keane-and-viera-best-of-enemies

I certainly enjoyed it and I think taking Roy less seriously than I once might have aided that; it's bravado really. Obviously, I was more concerned with the Keane side of the documentary as it offered a captivating insight into his competitive and resolute character. I sense his tough exterior is ultimately driven by an internal insecurity and an inner need to "maintain face". Indeed, he goes as far as admitting that he is and always was driven by fear.

It is clear he felt stung by the falling out with Alex Ferguson and evidently still harbours so much bitterness that he found it nigh impossible to utter positive words for his former manager. Ferguson's biggest weakness, according to Keane, is his lack of loyalty. No doubt, that opinion was coloured by personal experiences later in his career. When asked to identify Ferguson's greatest strength, he almost scoffs with derision as the best he can offer is what he perceives to be Ferguson's ruthlessness. He even said he felt insulted by the words Ferguson used to praise his towering performance away to Juventus in 1999; his outright rejection of the compliment just seemed like petty overcompensation to me, in case he'd be seen to be "letting his guard down" or "going soft" with the grudge. When actually asked who the best manager under whom he played was, there was a contrived silence before he answered simply, "Brian Clough". That just seemed rather disingenuous, as if to suggest that Ferguson, under whom he'd won virtually everything there was to play for at the top of the English game time and time again, wasn't even worth consideration.

In fairness to Roy, he did admit to crying after his time at Old Trafford came to a sudden end. However, just in case you thought this might be an indication of weakness, he assures that it was merely a few tears shed for only two minutes in the car before getting on with his life.

And he does regret not having played in the 2002 World Cup, after all:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAj_Z3QoCjI

When asked if there was one thing he would again in his career, he exhibited maturity in hindsight by answering: "Play in the [2002] World Cup. It would have been nice to play", before adding, "Mick did say to me that 'Well if you don’t respect me, how can you play for me?' What I should have said was that I wasn’t playing for him. I was playing for my country."

Interestingly, he'd also held otherwise-agreeable talks with Bayern Munich and Juventus when his United contract was running out but was happy at United at the time and never felt strongly enough to go. Looking back now, he said he partially regretted not having experienced playing beyond Ireland and the UK.

[geysir]

I watched it to the end and enjoyed it. I was all prepared for the worst and expected me to last 5 or 10 minute watching it. But that Vieira chap was just so charming :)

2 bits stood out for me that Charlie Danny has already highlighted. When asked what his preparation or motivation or something would be for an upcoming Man U Arsenal fixture, Keane said 'fear', 'fear of losing' that's what kept him in focus.
And 'fear of what', the 'what' was understood to mean something really hellish, in the dark pits of Roy's dungeons.
The other bit was regret about the World Cup, which he virtually said that he should have separated his dispute with McCarthy from himself as captain playing for his country. Which I think most everybody can agree on.

[shakermaker1982]

I enjoyed it. Better than the football that preceded it as well.

Keane clearly rated Irwin as well when they were debating who should slot in as LB for a combined Man Utd/Arsenal 11. Irwin was bloody fantastic for United. Solid every game.

Keane/Fergie fall out is like a marriage that goes sour, they will now only focus on the bits that went wrong in the relationship whenever asked. A great partnership that ended in tears.........

[back of the net]

The other bit was regret about the World Cup, which he virtually said that he should have separated his dispute with McCarthy from himself as captain playing for his country. Which I think most everybody can agree on.

Very much agree with the above.

You could see the massive regret he had on his face when he spoke about it IMO on doing what he did back then and not waiting till post tournament to express his discontent at whatever issues he felt needed to be addressed.

Overall it was a good show - although at times i thought it was called "Keane & Ferguson - Best of enimies" as it seemed a bit keane central imo and too much of alex fergusons book was brought into it, it was meant to be about 2 of the greatest club captains of a generation and their individual and team battles with each other.

Wasnt sure about some of roys picks for his best team - some of his picks seemed more like he was picking them because they also felt out with ferguson rather than picking them for their ability

[DannyInvincible]

I have a feeling ITV Player won't work outside of the UK, but the documentary is also on YouTube now split into five parts:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNna61IS6ZE

Excuse my misspelling of Vieira's name above, by the way. I'm blaming the ITV website, from where I copied and pasted the title. You'd think they'd have gotten the name of one of the central protagonists correct...


2 bits stood out for me that Charlie has already highlighted.

Charlie?!

http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Beyonce-Knowles-Offended-Reaction-Gif.gif

[geysir]

Charlie?!

Sorry about that John, but did you really have to inflict the ?! on us?

[Stuttgart88]

Excuse my misspelling of Vieira's name above, by the way.
Sony made the same mistake when they named a TV after him.

[DannyInvincible]

Overall it was a good show - although at times i thought it was called "Keane & Ferguson - Best of enimies" as it seemed a bit keane central imo and too much of alex fergusons book was brought into it, it was meant to be about 2 of the greatest club captains of a generation and their individual and team battles with each other.

I think it was always going to be that way. Keane is the much more defiant, contentious and opinionated personality of the two (himself and Vieira), which is great for unearthing further source material and boosting subsequent ratings. He's not only unafraid of offending, he actively goes out of his way to be the principled and contrary hard-man.


Wasnt sure about some of roys picks for his best team - some of his picks seemed more like he was picking them because they also felt out with ferguson rather than picking them for their ability

Who would you have dropped and who would you have replaced them with? I thought it a pretty strong team, even if it was very personality-driven. That's not to imply that mentality isn't just as crucial to success in football as technical ability, of course. Nevertheless, you could probably argue that Gary Neville, Scholes and Giggs might have been deserving of places over Parker, Ince and Ronaldo. Do you sense Keane's estimation of former team-mates might have fallen as a result of their maintaining of loyalty to Fergie until their retirement?

[Professor K]

I thought it was quite good. I don't know why they had Keane rapping over 'Still Dre' for ages though, none of it even rhymed.

[DannyInvincible]

The RTÉ Panel discuss the Keane-Vieira documentary:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOJnepoQGIE

I think it's interesting they point out that whilst the "sophisticated" Vieira was motivated by the positive forces of hope, belief, passion and heart, Keane was driven by much darker forces; hatred and fear.

[geysir]

Brady says that Keane went out of his way to say so many bad things about Ferguson.
For a start, I'd say the documentary program was obviously edited and edited in such a way to try and fit in Keane's comments about Ferguson and questions were edited out.
Another issue is that the program needed a good selling point to catch world attention, what better selling point than the exclusive on Keane replying to Ferguson's book. In that context, Brady's comment was idiotic. This was a documentary probably planned for 60 minutes and I'd speculate that it went to the 90 minute mark (incl adverts) specifically to give Keane the floor to reply to Ferguson's book.
One part of the documentary was Keane Vieira the other part was Keane Ferguson and it wasn't edited well, Keane's comments about Ferguson didn't fit in well with the Keane Vieira bit. It was like a crude cut and paste job.
Brady thought Keane was wrong to say what he said, but did Brady also think Ferguson was wrong? if not, he didn't say so.
As it stands, Brady either believes that Ferguson made fair comment or that Keane has little or no right to reply in turn.
Not that I care about that particular war of words between Keane and Ferguson. Keane was well compensated when Man U terminated his contract and he didn't have 2 years left in him as a player, he played for Celtic for a few months and that was it.

Dunphy's liver is either taxed with dealing with excess alcohol or he's entering into a a permanent slurred liverish existence, not unlike Shane McGowan.

[The Fly]

Who would you have dropped and who would you have replaced them with? I thought it a pretty strong team, even if it was very personality-driven. That's not to imply that mentality isn't just as crucial to success in football as technical ability, of course. Nevertheless, you could probably argue that Gary Neville, Scholes and Giggs might have been deserving of places over Parker, Ince and Ronaldo.

The only member of that trio that I would've definitely included is Scholes. Although Ince was a very good player and is, in some respects, a kind of forgotten man in United's history, I think most would agree that Scholes was superior and would add that bit extra to Keane's selection.

If Gary Neville is to be included it is simply down to his longevity as he certainly wasn't a great player in my view. Good, but not great. In relation to Paul Parker he may, as Roy said, feel hard done by. He must have squirmed when Keane and Vieira were going over the tunnel incident - "What got to me was you went for Gary!...Gary!... that's like going after the weakest link." The expression on Keane's face when he said Gary was priceless.

The exclusion of Giggs may have raised most eyebrows given the extraordinary length of his career and the amount of honours he has received, but with some consideration I have to say that I wouldn't have included him either. Keane was charged with selecting the best players he played with at United not the players who made the greatest contributions during his time there, so in that respect Ronaldo has to be included. Then one has to decide whether to put him on the right; where played a lot of the time for United, or on the left; his best and most deadly position. You have to go for the latter in my view, which means including Beckham on the right.

I would also add that although I have certain problems with Beckham and the status he has garnered for himself; primarily because it bears little relation to his abilities as a player, I will say that he did, in my estimation, achieve a higher, and more prolonged, peak at United than Giggs ever did. I think it is often forgotten how sporadic Giggs' form was at times. Whilst his status as one United's most legendary servants is not in doubt, I always felt that he was never a truly great player.

[The Fly]

Sony made the same mistake when they named a TV after him.

You mean Panasonic.

Although come to think of it, his middle name is Bravian.

[tricky_colour]

Sony made the same mistake when they named a TV after him.

Actually I think it was a Panasonic Vieira, they also had another model called the Panasonic Keane, which was more versatile than the Vieira but it kept blowing fuses ;)

[Fixer82]

Jesus O'Herlihy would put years on ya. 'He is a good man!!' Is that cos he's from Cork Bill?

[Crosby87]

Mick with a few comments about Saipan:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2526739/Mick-McCarthy-stands-call-send-Roy-Keane-home-2002-World-Cup.html

[Kingdom]

Just wondering about something the past while, and O'Neill's press conference yesterday had me asking the same question. He mentions going to Norwich v Swansea to watch Wes, but Wes doesn't start so obviously it's a blow, but he'd never complain about it being a wasted journey.

That irritates the hell out of me. In any given EPL match, you've probably the guts of 5/6 full internationals on show, and there is bound to be one or two that possibly will come up against Ireland over the course of the next two years.

Is it unreasonable of me to think that the National Football team has some sort of dossier on all of the countries in our Continent? That we won't just wait for the draw to be made in February and then start scouting sides out?

Surely he's bound to have a certain amount of scouting done on opposition players too. Michu is too obvious an example from Swansea, so what about Ashley Williams if we draw Wales. Trying to spot little weakness' that can be exploited such as his lack of concentration, or poor turning, ponderous on the ball etc. Or Vonk - what are his traits, double touch on a backpass, fondness for distribution.

If there is this kind of detail then when the draw is made, and if we were to draw Slovenia as a random one, O'Neill can turn to Delaney and say "I've scouted Slovenia and some of their players, they have an unusual style in that they play with such-and-such and I'd like a friendly against Hungary again because they have similar characteristics" and then it's done.

Am I alone thinking like that?

[Grafter]

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/international/2013/1222/494410-oneill-to-give-youth-a-chance/
(http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/international/2013/1222/494410-oneill-to-give-youth-a-chance/)
Martin talking about maybe surprising us come March with his selection of younger players...

Am I the only one that droans when I see mention of names like Noble and Redmond yet again! FYI they're committed
Englishmen everybody MOVE ON!

In terms of surprises there's very little surprises when it comes to Ireland.... these
young players don't just appear out of a hat - so who are we talking about here that have impressed him recently??? Jack Grealish? Shane Duffy? Curtis Davies? David McGoldrick??????

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

What with O'Shea, Delaney and Dunne's advancing ages and the fact that Richard Keogh isn't good enough at this level, it would be prudent to call up Duffy. He didn't look out of place in his brief spell in the Premiership and he's getting plaudits at Yeovil. He is physically very impressive and not afraid to take on responsibility and organise.

Sean Murray is doing well at Watford and Joe Mason is another possible.

I agree that this nonsense over Curtis Davies, Mark Noble and Nathan Redmond has to stop. None of them are a vast improvement on the options that we already have.

[Crosby87]

Ger Crossley?

[Charlie Darwin]

the fact that Richard Keogh isn't good enough at this level
Hang on, hang on. When did this happen?

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Too clumsy, rash in the tackle and lacks dominance. Has always played for teams that have leaked loads of goals. Derby are where they are in spite of and not because of him.

Delaney, O'Shea, Dunne, Clark, Wilson, Duffy and Pearce are all better options and St Ledger too on International form but not club form.

[Charlie Darwin]

A bit like Richard Dunne so. I'll take him.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Dunne has played practically his entire career in the Premier League and has helped steady the ship at a ravaged QPR, keeping 13 clean sheets in 19 games after missing over a year through injury. I think he's in an entirely different league to Keogh.

We have a good few players ahead of him.

Special mention too to Delaney who has taken well to the Premier League; and to think that little over a year ago, he was close to having his leg amputated. You never hear him moaning to the press about being left out of squads. Consummate professional.

[Charlie Darwin]

That would be the Delaney who has always played for teams that leaked plenty of goals.

[Grafter]

Delaney, O'Shea, Dunne, Clark, Wilson, Duffy and Pearce are all better options and St Ledger too on International form but not club form.

You needn't worry about Sledge's club form, he only plays internationals these days:rolleyes: