Martin O'Neill and Roy Keane

[BonnieShels]

RTÉ reporting, that The Torygraph are reporting that Monkeano have been offered the job(s). I hope (t)he(y) take(s) it tbh. It's been a sham of a week.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2018/0113/933131-oneill-and-keane-offered-stoke-job-report/

and the source...


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2018/01/13/exclusive-stoke-city-still-keen-appointing-martin-oneill-new/amp/

[Park_Lane]

RTÉ reporting, that The Torygraph are reporting that Monkeano have been offered the job(s). I hope (t)he(y) take(s) it tbh. It's been a sham of a week.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2018/0113/933131-oneill-and-keane-offered-stoke-job-report/

and the source...


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2018/01/13/exclusive-stoke-city-still-keen-appointing-martin-oneill-new/amp/


Careful what you wish for. FAI(lure) are not going to pay compo for a new manager so we will be left with the prospect of Noel King caretaker manager until after summer

[BonnieShels]

I honestly don't mind that tbh.

I just think that the way this has played out has left a sour taste in the mouth. Bit like Mick after 2002. It's a case of "Know when to go".

[elroy]

Strange decision by MON and RK to attend that dinner given what’s going on and that it had been announced they wouldn’t be there. Presumably they were trying to indicate commitment to ROI which now looks very weak with Flores turning down offer.

General consensus in media now seems to be they have to go. Eyes turned. Oddly I think most fans are probably indifferent which reflects mood post Denmark shambles. Post Austria away one year earlier, majority of fans were very happy with set up. Hard to know best step now, a lot depends on who replacement would be. If MON stays, this and the DK games will loom largely over next campaign.

[Olé Olé]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2018/01/14/martin-oneill-turns-stoke-offer-become-new-manager/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Telegraph reporting MON has turned down Stoke...

[pineapple stu]

Careful what you wish for. FAI(lure) are not going to pay compo for a new manager so we will be left with the prospect of Noel King caretaker manager until after summer
I actually thought Noel King did alright last time (reasonably ok performance in Germany, all things considered, and a solid win over Kazakhstan)

But I think there's an overhaul of the squad required at the moment, and that requires getting a manager in place sooner rather than later, be that O'Neill or someone else.

[DannyInvincible]

I think it would have been best if he'd just gone. To enter serious negotiations for another job after his supposed commitment to the new contract was publicly confirmed by the FAI a few months back is farcical really. It suggests his interest in the job is half-hearted, which obviously isn't ideal. Moods have been low since Denmark - and I would have been happy to see someone else brought in after that anyway - but this episode will have done nothing to inspire some badly-needed confidence in O'Neill or positivity in general. It all feels a bit shabby.

[samhaydenjr]

Looks like he's staying: https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2018/0114/933277-martin-oneill-turns-down-stoke-city-report/

[osarusan]

Am I the only one who doesn't see his near-departure as a serious issue?

So he was interested in a different job, but decided to stay...so what? Is there any suggestion that he (and Keane) will be any less focused on the Ireland job from now on?
I would imagine he was looking at potentially suitable club jobs as they became available throughout his tenure as Ireland manager anyway, I'd say most managers do.

[Diggs246]

Am I the only one who doesn't see his near-departure as a serious issue?

So he was interested in a different job, but decided to stay...so what? Is there any suggestion that he (and Keane) will be any less focused on the Ireland job from now on?
I would imagine he was looking at potentially suitable club jobs as they became available throughout his tenure as Ireland manager anyway, I'd say most managers do.

If someone doesnt want to be in a job and are actively looking around for s new job, that person tends to have their eye off the ball

[osarusan]

I don't really agree. I think it's possible for O'Neill to be just as 'on the ball' as he has been (and the extent of how on the ball he has been is open to debate, but for a different thread really).

I also don't think that his interest in the Stoke job necessarily means he doesn't want to be in this one.

[Olé Olé]

If someone doesnt want to be in a job and are actively looking around for s new job, that person tends to have their eye off the ball

Was he though? Was he actively looking around? I'm suspicious also but do you know what would be lovely? If Martin stopped playing silly beggars with the media (Friday at the awards, Tony O'Donoghue whenever possible) and clarified exactly what took place over the past week.

[geysir]

Nope, the one that qualified for the Euros winning nine games in a row, beating Russia, Montenegro and Sweden (4-1) away from home. Does that sound like a typical (or even successful) Irish qualification campaign?
After that promising qualification campaign for Euro 2016 they backslid with gusto. They performed very poorly at the Euro Finals and by the time we met them they were already 4th pot material, an overall standard which they didn't rise above in our group. We had a tougher Euro 2016 qual group than they had and we had performed better than them at the Euros.

[seanfhear]

If someone doesnt want to be in a job and are actively looking around for s new job, that person tends to have their eye off the ballParticularly not what you want in a Football job .

[jbyrne]

If someone doesnt want to be in a job and are actively looking around for s new job, that person tends to have their eye off the ball

what evidence is there that mo'n went looking for the stoke, or any other, job?

what evidence is there that he doesnt want to be in the irish job?

[Diggs246]

what evidence is there that mo'n went looking for the stoke, or any other, job?

what evidence is there that he doesnt want to be in the irish job?

My understanding is he went and met with the stoke board snd was offered the job, hence evidence of interest. I also understand he was talking to Everton. That doesn't sound like someone happy in their job

[elroy]

If the FAI were happy to agree to extend his contract pre the Moldova game, then why approximately 3 months later is nothing signed. I don’t buy this on their word bull****.

Another fine mess oversaw by our great leader JD.

[tetsujin1979]

My understanding is he went and met with the stoke board snd was offered the job, hence evidence of interest. I also understand he was talking to Everton. That doesn't sound like someone happy in their job
any proof of that?

[Diggs246]

[QUOTE=tetsujin1979;1949289]any proof of that?[/QUOTE

Well, its either in that ball park, or this whole week has been a massive misunderstanding and Martin O'Neill is owed huge apology.

[brine3]

Nope, the one that qualified for the Euros winning nine games in a row, beating Russia, Montenegro and Sweden (4-1) away from home. Does that sound like a typical (or even successful) Irish qualification campaign?

They were knocked out of the Euros in the group stage in 2016. In 2008 they qualified as host (their first ever Euros) but also went home in the group stage.

That's all they've done in terms of World Cup or European championship tournaments this century.

Don't think we need to be particularly jealous of their recent achievements, to be honest.

[jbyrne]

but do you know what would be lovely? If Martin stopped playing silly beggars with the media (Friday at the awards, Tony O'Donoghue whenever possible) and clarified exactly what took place over the past week.

the media are not the story. who gives a hoot about the managers relationship with the media. too much importance put on how the media feel in relation to our manager. too full of their own self importance if you ask me

[Olé Olé]

the media are not the story. who gives a hoot about the managers relationship with the media. too much importance put on how the media feel in relation to our manager. too full of their own self importance if you ask me
My point is he could clarify through the media.

[tetsujin1979]

The same media who've been using their platform to decry his behaviour for the last two weeks or so?
"Yeah, sorry I said that about you, now can i get a quote on the Stoke job?"

[DeLorean]

After that promising qualification campaign for Euro 2016 they backslid with gusto. They performed very poorly at the Euro Finals and by the time we met them they were already 4th pot material, an overall standard which they didn't rise above in our group. We had a tougher Euro 2016 qual group than they had and we had performed better than them at the Euros.

That doesn't contradict what I said really. They were seeded ahead of us on merit on the back of an outstanding run of results. Their form dipped but they still had the same players, who are superior players overall to what we have, boosted by a couple of stars. As for their performance at the Euros, it was sluggish for sure but they were unlucky in the final group game against Iceland I thought (no doubt you'll dispute this!). Portugal went from strength to strength and won the competition after limping out of the same group without a victory to their name, maybe Austria could have found some form as well.

[DeLorean]

They were knocked out of the Euros in the group stage in 2016. In 2008 they qualified as host (their first ever Euros) but also went home in the group stage. That's all they've done in terms of World Cup or European championship tournaments this century.

How is 2008 relevant exactly? (A tournament we didn't come close to qualifying for, losing 5-2 to Cyprus amongst other catastrophes).


Don't think we need to be particularly jealous of their recent achievements, to be honest.

They took 28 points out of 30 in their qualification group. You don't have to be jealous to appreciate it was a fine achievement and something we're basically incapable of.

[Olé Olé]

The same media who've been using their platform to decry his behaviour for the last two weeks or so?
"Yeah, sorry I said that about you, now can i get a quote on the Stoke job?"
Okay so. Don't do it through the media. Try doing it outside of the media. A statement. Anything. I'm not looking to provide the media with quotes and soundbites. I'm saying it's a means to put out his message.

[DeLorean]

Stoke appoint Paul Lambert - https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/jan/15/stoke-city-appoint-paul-lambert-new-manager

[pineapple stu]

Would be underwhelmed by that if I was a Stoke fan

[brine3]

How is 2008 relevant exactly?

It's relevant to compare finals tournament success. That's ultimately the end goal of international football.

Austria haven't made it past the initial group phase of a finals tournament since 1982.

Over on footie.at, they are probably jealous of our achievements, to be honest.

[DeLorean]

It's relevant to compare finals tournament success.

Maybe if we were comparing the pedigree of both nations in an overall sense, but we weren't.

[brine3]

Well, if you want to go more recent, they crashed out of Euro 2016 after losing to Hungary, whereas we beat Italy and gave the hosts France a run for their money.

Negatively inclined Austrian fans may have though we were the world beaters who achieved more than anything they could have "ever dreamed of"

Us beating Austria is much of a muchness, to be honest. Just as it is when they beat us.

[nigel-harps1954]

Have Martin O'Neill and Roy Keane taken over Austria now or something?

[Charlie Darwin]

Roy Kean and Martin O Neil to managed Austria?

[Diggs246]

Have Martin O'Neill and Roy Keane taken over Austria now or something?


yep agreed, time for a ceasefire on Austria, its not relevant

[DeLorean]

Us beating Austria is much of a muchness, to be honest. Just as it is when they beat us.

If you really are so concerned with history, maybe you should consider this too - https://www.11v11.com/teams/republic-of-ireland/tab/opposingTeams/opposition/Austria/

Not much of a muchness at all I would suggest, but emphatically one sided (particularly up until the point in time we're actually talking about).

Anyway, we'll move on. I thought Austria were correctly seeded above us, you don't seem to agree. Fair enough.

[DeLorean]

yep agreed, time for a ceasefire on Austria, its not relevant

It was relevant in assessing whether MON overachieved by finishing second ahead of them. Not off topic at all.

[OwlsFan]

Guess he can’t do it on a cold wet Tuesday night in Stoke.

Not that bad by the looks for things https://www.tripadvisor.ie/Attractions-g186378-Activities-Stoke_on_Trent_Staffordshire_England.html

[brine3]

Anyway, we'll move on. I thought Austria were correctly seeded above us, you don't seem to agree. Fair enough.

Hehehe, the old I'll move on but put in a point anyway move. Of course I think they were correctly seeded above us according to the rules.

[DeLorean]

My point (originally, many moons ago now it seems) was that they were deservedly seeded ahead of us, regardless of the rules, which I don't think are always correct/fair at all.

[DannyInvincible]

Some selected media commentary (with which I happen to mostly concur) on the latest episode...

'Ken Early: Ireland end up as consolation prize for O’Neill': https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/ken-early-ireland-end-up-as-consolation-prize-for-o-neill-1.3355396


The Daily Telegraph last night broke the story that O’Neill had turned down Stoke’s offer, adding that one big reason for his decision is that he did not want to break the verbal agreement he had made with the FAI. But if this verbal agreement really was so sacred, why not confirm as much last week, when Stoke’s interest in taking him first became widely known? Transparency then could have spared a lot of awkwardness later, as many observers will now naturally conclude that he would have been keen to join Stoke if they hadn’t insulted him by approaching Sánchez Flores first.

Instead O’Neill will carry on and now it’s Ireland that gets to feel like the consolation prize. But after the events of the last few days, both O’Neill and the Ireland fans know that most of the supporters were happy to draw a line under his time in charge of the team.

'Keith Duggan: Stoke affair leaves everyone feeling insulted and cheapened': https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/international/keith-duggan-stoke-affair-leaves-everyone-feeling-insulted-and-cheapened-1.3353530


Republic of Ireland fans could feel insulted that Martin O’Neill was, according to many reports, ready to walk away for perhaps a mere half-season with the Potters without a backwards glance. There was an unspoken disbelief not so much that O’Neill might quit his post for a Premier club role but that he would leave Ireland for, well, Stoke – which, of course, is a slight on Stoke City FC and the outer boroughs along the Trent.

O’Neill, equally, can feel insulted that anyone would believe that he would renege on his verbal agreement with John Delaney to remain in charge for another campaign. He might also feel slightly aggrieved and hurt at the absence of a deafening public chorus begging him to stay.

John Delaney and the FAI can feel outraged that an English club would so brazenly and openly line up their man, leaving them powerless to do anything about it. Ireland football fans can feel angered by the FAI’s dithering for two months over actually securing the signature of O’Neill on the line that is dotted instead of leaving the position floating on the vague notion of a handshake.

'Richie Sadlier: Martin O’Neill can’t expect to walk back into Ireland job': https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/international/richie-sadlier-martin-o-neill-can-t-expect-to-walk-back-into-ireland-job-1.3353603


... Back in the real world, though, it’s an embarrassing mess for both parties. There’s no other credible take on what’s been reported. Just carrying on as if nothing happened is head-in-the-sand stuff, which isn’t to say that’s not what the FAI will do. That might be just what O’Neill would like, given he has nowhere else to go, but staying silent and riding this out is not going to work. John Delaney needs to lead on this and speak up.

...

Putting aside the legal arguments on the validity of their verbal agreement, keeping O’Neill in charge is not a viable option. He arrived four years ago with a reputation for passion and enthusiasm, but you can’t claim full commitment if you’re actively seeking an exit. I know what I’d be thinking if I was in his dressing room and he started to question the mentality of any of the players. His words would fall flat. Richard Dunne said as much on Newstalk during the week. He can’t expect to walk back in as if nothing has happened.

[jbyrne]

Republic of Ireland fans could feel insulted that Martin O’Neill was, according to many reports, ready to walk away

quite ironic after 60% of the crowd walked out long before the end of the Denmark match

[Diggs246]

https://m.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/john-and-i-have-agreed-terms-martin-oneill-offers-brief-update-on-contract-situation-but-deal-still-not-signed-36496549.html

The interviewer was incredibly aggressive, quite the investigative journalist there

[geysir]

It was relevant in assessing whether MON overachieved by finishing second ahead of them. Not off topic at all.
If I were inclined to assess, I certainly would not rate O'Neill that low. :)

[brine3]

Seems that MON will be signing.

I've watched every Irish match since I was eight years old. I'm going to have to reconsider now... I can't watch his Ireland teams. I don't mind negative football if it is well organised. As a defender I would say that a bit of well organised Italian catenaccio is a joy to behold.

But MON's Ireland... I don't know what it is. It's chaotic, organised Sunday league style defending. Like watching a pinball machine or something. It's an attack on my senses.

[geysir]

It also takes tactical nous, good pre-game preparation, good analysis of the opposition along with game management/decisions to play good negative cautious football.

[EAFC_rdfl]

The interview is some craic, is that a lad on transition year work experience asking the questions :-)

[brine3]

It also takes tactical nous, good pre-game preparation, good analysis of the opposition along with game management/decisions to play good negative cautious football.

Yeah, Trap's Ireland did it well during his first two years in charge. The match in Paris is probably one of the greatest ever Ireland performances, if not the greatest. We gave away hardly any chances and had the midfield under control.

After that Trap got bored I think... Or maybe Liam Brady (who was on Trap's staff for the first two years) was doing a lot of the behind the scenes work.

[osarusan]

I would actually say that Ireland look at their most organised when defending against attack-minded opposition.

[tetsujin1979]

Delaney says the contract will be signed before Wednesday
nKUt2bnWNOY

[geysir]

The Stoke thing doesn't bother me that much re O'Neill's suitability for the Irish job. It's just swamped under the sense of utter 'underwhelmingness' about another campaign of dross under Martin and Roy. I don't know quite what to read into the Stoke affair as facts are absent, but for sure O'Neill should have come out and done a proper (respectful of fans) Q&A instead of hiding behind Delaney's spin on it.