Martin O'Neill and Roy Keane

[geysir]

"Roy Keane 'apologised' to Mick McCarthy over Saipan"
Keane apologised but what did he apologise for?
Maybe Roy said, out of normal social politeness,
"I'm sorry Mick for how ugly it all turned out" and Mick was supposed to reply "I'm sorry too for what transpired", but he didn't :)
Mick should have kept to his promise not to give in to the little sh'it of a journalist, who, by hook or by crook was going to print some Saipan residue

[Stuttgart88]

I think it was Geysir who said in another thread that playing with two wingers is out of date. I'm not sure this is strictly true but either way there are a few puzzles to solve in how we line up or what players we pick.

451 / 433 or variations thereof:
* It gives us better numbers in midfield
* Long as the lone forward: does the number 9 stuff well but can't be trusted as a finisher. Last night was nothing new.
* Keane as a lone forward: there's a school of thought that he can't lead the line. But is a line-leader necessary? Not necessarily if the team can play football. He'd have relished Wes' service last night.
* It still allows us two traditional wide men which we are ideologically wedded to.

442
* Does it leave us light in numbers in midfield?
* It allows us two upfront which suits our players better
* It allows us two traditional wide men
* The idea of Keane dropping deep to make it a 451 of sorts has never worked.

It would seem to me that if we are to retain the best of our forward options and the best of a 3 man midfield maybe then we must drop our reliance on classic wide men.

So, this suggests to me that 4-3-1-2 might be better. And maybe there's room for both Reid and Hoolahan. Example: McCarthy deeper, Reid, Hoolahan and Gibson in a narrower midfield, Keane and Long upfront. Coleman provides width on one side at least.

I like the idea of McCarthy, Gibson, Reid and Hoolahan all being on the pitch together.

[geysir]

I don't see why Robbie can't play ahead of Hoolahan or Reid, as long as he's fit and sharp enough.
You'd wonder just how much of O'Neill's decisions last night were affected by ageist thinking, Robbie is about to kick the bucket - better to just go with Long. Replace the vintage rearguard of Dunne and O'Shea, if it has to be done soon, why not now?
I hope O'Neill won't be flip flopping around for much longer with the decisions as to who are the best players available now, for the core positions and not wondering who will be best in 2 or 3 years time. Surely the Giles' maxim has to take precedent?

Brady's stature and importance in the scheme of things has improved immensely, even though he was absent from the proceedings.

[Stuttgart88]

Yes, true. I had overlooked Brady.

[Crosby87]

Martin might add another friendly:
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/international/martin-o-neill-has-change-of-heart-and-would-now-welcome-extra-friendly-after-setback-1.1715571

[Fixer82]

One thing I have to say was very refreshing about Wednesday night was it was great to see us actually playing football again. It's been quite a while!

[Charlie Darwin]

Martin might add another friendly:
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/international/martin-o-neill-has-change-of-heart-and-would-now-welcome-extra-friendly-after-setback-1.1715571
Don't you mean "Martin: Me might add another friendly"?

[geysir]

Me don't get that one.

[Stuttgart88]

That's how Crosby typically introduces the links he adds. Me actually finds it amusing.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

If Irish football managers were Muppets, Mick McCarthy would be Beaker, Roy Keane would be Animal and Martin O'Neill would be Bunsen Honeydew.

If Irish football managers were Breaking Bad characters, Chris Hughton would be Gus Fring and Brian McDermott would be Mike.

[Crosby87]

Me felt Breaking Bad was over rated. This new one on HBO with Woody is better.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/wait-will-be-worth-it-as-oneill-builds-new-ireland-30075666.html

Paul Rowan got caught with his hand in the cookie jar....

O'Neill took issue on Wednesday night with the excellent journalist Paul Rowan who had suggested in a recent article that, broadly, Roy Keane was watching players in the north of England and O'Neill was covering the south. "I've been to Blackburn, I've been to Swansea, I've been to Southend, I've been in the north about four other times. I have seen 25 live games for the Republic of Ireland. I've seen 28 live games, but the other three didn't consist of an Ireland player," O'Neill said, taking a different approach to media relations than Trapattoni.
"I don't need you to tell me where I should be," he told him. "Do you hear me? I don't want you to make it up. Whatever you say about the team is entirely up to you. Okay? I haven't been hanging around Loftus Road."

[Crosby87]

Dont want to argue with Marty but isn't that him right there?
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTgByZqObSYE76otHPcSS9tO7UNaa0T2 eSdejzJl_wmO7K-ueseuw

[Charlie Darwin]

No, Crosby, that's a traffic island.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Don't encourage him/'them'...

[Stuttgart88]

Paul Rowan's first article on MON said that he was treating the job as a joke, although I think there's a difference between being jovial at a press conference and being disrespectful to execution of the actual position. The quote above seems to suggest Paul Rowan still thinks O'Neill isn't working hard enough, consistent with his opening impression.

I'm not sure though. International football is a bit of a sinecure in some respects, hard work in others. MON and Keane seem to be spending a lot of time on the ground in Ireland and between them are taking in a lot of games. It doesn't bother me much if Keane watches games nearer his home while O'Neill watches games nearer his own.

The rest of that Fanning article is quite positive on the outlook of O'Neill's tenure.

[geysir]

Rowan can't help himself, O'Neill had him sussed out and replied in kind.
Also sounds like O'Neill was pre-prepared to reply in kind, with a very accurate account of his scouting activity.

Usually an O'Neill honeymoon lasts a bit longer than 2.5 games. The second half performance didn't remind me of Trap, as was referred to by Fanning and others, as if it was a lingering legacy, but more reminded me of O'Neill's last batch of gloomy, relegation bound, Sunderland games. I think we have 2 problems to be sorted, the first is just regular team related issues, the second is O'Neill has to find his mojo.

[Charlie Darwin]

Rowan seems to miss Trap already. Thankfully, O'Neill is treating him with the same contempt Trap did. We're in for a very boring couple of years, folks, if you want to skip to the end just go back to 2010 and read the articles about the then manager.

[OwlsFan]

One thing I have to say was very refreshing about Wednesday night was it was great to see us actually playing football again. It's been quite a while!

Yes like giving away a goal instead of humping the ball forward. If that second half was "playing football", you can keep it. Don't feel even slightly "refreshed" having lost at home to Serbia. We have got to start winning at home against decent sides or we might as well give up and I don't care how we do it.

[Stuttgart88]

I think you're being too black and white Owls Fan. For a start I think it's fair to say Fixer was more impressed with the first half.

More pertinently, the management's faith in a player like Hoolahan running midfield and playing lovely slide rule passes for Long is the other side of the same coin as allowing full backs to develop play from the back. Sometimes it won't work out. You've got to be able to trust good players like Coleman to use their judgment as to when to hoof and when to play it. His judgment, or at least execution, let him down.

[Fixer82]

I think you're being too black and white Owls Fan. For a start I think it's fair to say Fixer was more impressed with the first half.

More pertinently, the management's faith in a player like Hoolahan running midfield and playing lovely slide rule passes for Long is the other side of the same coin as allowing full backs to develop play from the back. Sometimes it won't work out. You've got to be able to trust good players like Coleman to use their judgment as to when to hoof and when to play it. His judgment, or at least execution, let him down.

Yep, agree with all that. I think, besides Serbia's dominance in the second half, there was some bad decision making from some usually more reliable players. And there's not much can be donw about that other than hope they learn and gain experience

[Crosby87]

Cork lad cast as fictionalized Roy for film:
http://www.thescore.ie/roy-keane-film-star-craig-harrington-rockmount-1358660-Mar2014/

[DannyInvincible]

'The Roy Keane Diaries' by Enda Penny over on YBIG make for entertaining reading: http://www.ybig.ie/the-roy-keane-diaries-3-&-4-.1.127.blog.html


The next day we had our first full training session with the team. Some of the lads had played the live TV game on the Sunday on Sky. Stoke had played Hull in an uneventful 0-0 and Glenn Whelan, Paul McShane, Marc Wilson, Shane Long and Robbie Brady had arrived later than the rest. So had Jon Walters. I had had problems with Walters during my time at Ipswich. ‘Maybe this time things would be different’ I thought. Let by gones be by gones Roy’.

Down at breakfast Martin is sitting chatting with some bloke called Steve Guppy. ‘What’s he doing here?’ I thought. Guppy had been appointed as ‘set piece expert’ by O’Neill and this immediately set the alarm bells ringing in my head. I wasn’t consulted over the decision.
As part of the management staff I decided to sit down next to them. The conversation is strained. A new goalkeeping coach Seamus McDonagh completes the staff. He was someone who I barely knew of but was prepared to give him a chance. Then he opened his mouth. It was the last time I didn’t hate him.

It’s 9.45am. We are boarding the bus to make the short journey up the road for our training session. It’s scheduled for 10am. But there’s a problem. Some of the lads are late. It quickly becomes apparent that it’s some of the lads who arrived late last night.
“We’ll give them two minutes Martin,” I said. For once Martin agrees with me. Most of them just make it. Except Jon Walters. ‘Hello?’ I thought. “F**k him. We are going without him,” I roared and instructed the driver to go.

Late for his first day of training. I remember my first day of training for United. I paid a taxi driver to drive ahead of me to show me the way to the training ground in case I would be late. I was an hour early. I know it’s only a small thing but stuff like that usually betrays an attitude to the job. Walters’ timekeeping told me something deeper about his character. I would file that away. For once an Ireland training session is properly structured. I had been up at 4am setting out the cones before going back to bed for a few hours sleep

Under Mick and his shadow Ian Evans some of the players were standing around idle while they set up the possession games. A f**king farce it was. I was going to show them *******s what a proper training session was like. During the warm up a taxi arrives. It’s Jon Walters all of 15 mins late. He storms up to the training pitch. He’s angry. I tell him to hurry up and join the rest.

Later on in the session Martin sets up an 11 v 11 game. Bibs v non bibs. I immediately regret my decision to stay. Glenn Whelan and Paul McShane are f**king useless. I offer some encouragement but it’s wasted on these fools. Glenn has been a regular in the Stoke team. I couldn’t see why. Pass after pass went astray. “Will you f**king find your man!!’’ I shouted He looked at me with a blank stare.“Hello? Is anybody home?” I thought. McShane is worse. Couldn’t mark a statue that lad.

I decide to join in the second half. I’m now on Whelan’s team. Walters is on the other side. After a few mins Walters comes at me with an over the top tackle. He’s obviously ****ed off at us leaving without him. He catches me on the ankle. I went down. I’m ok although I have am badly bruised. I continue. The ball finds Walters over by the touchline. I hit him hard. “Take that ya ****!”. I catch him with a kung fu kick that catches him in his chest and sends him flying. “Don’t ever be late for a bus again you scouse ****. And tell your pal Wilson he can fook off as well.’’

Martin runs over. “There was no need for that Roy,” he said. “Go f**k yourself,” I replied. “I could have you shot you motherless free state gobsh*te,” he said. “Sorry Martin.’’

[bennocelt]

So Keane is the rebel that wears a poppy:p

[Crosby87]

Get alternative reality Walters an alarm clock.

[Charlie Darwin]

That had potential but actually turned out to be pretty crap.

[swinfordfc]

Down to 68 in the rankings! worst ever - its a joke!

[Charlie Darwin]

O'Neill out!

[SkStu]

That had potential but actually turned out to be pretty crap.

I quite enjoyed it.

[BonnieShels]

I quite enjoyed it.

You've been affected by Mercer and 22 Minutes. You've changed man!

[SkStu]

I watched RMR for the first time ever last night... But Keane parodies are always funny to me.

But yes, I've changed. :)


BonnieShels was someone who I barely knew of but was prepared to give him a chance. Then he opened his mouth. It was the last time I didn’t hate him.

Gold.

[dong]

Yep, agree with all that. I think, besides Serbia's dominance in the second half, there was some bad decision making from some usually more reliable players. And there's not much can be donw about that other than hope they learn and gain experience

So Trap was right all along. The players can't be trusted to actually play?

[geysir]

I quite enjoyed it.
Enjoyment is maybe too strong a word for me, but definitely gets marks for the effort.

[DannyInvincible]

Ha, seeing as we're reviewing it, it was plausible and elicited a couple of sniggers until civil Martin interjected with a very uncharacteristic threat, presumably because Martin, despite his civility and decency, is also a "nordie". And, as everyone knows, all "nordies" could have you shot... A bad punch-line doesn't diminish all of the previous good work, however.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

I love how Roy Keane gets the **** taken out of him for being a professional who takes his job seriously.

Maybe if more of our young players followed his lead, less of them would end up falling off the map by the time they reach age 25.

The Harry Ramsden's Challenge..... smh.

[BonnieShels]

Ha, seeing as we're reviewing it, it was plausible and elicited a couple of sniggers until civil Martin interjected with a very uncharacteristic threat, presumably because Martin, despite his civility and decency, is also a "nordie". And, as everyone knows, all "nordies" could have you shot... A bad punch-line doesn't diminish all of the previous good work, however.

It does.

What is a joke with a bad ending called then in that case?

Plus we aren't Free-staters any more, we're Mexicans.

[geysir]

Ha, seeing as we're reviewing it, it was plausible and elicited a couple of sniggers until civil Martin interjected with a very uncharacteristic threat, presumably because Martin, despite his civility and decency, is also a "nordie". And, as everyone knows, all "nordies" could have you shot... A bad punch-line doesn't diminish all of the previous good work, however.
Nordies should retain a bit of the menace that they could have someone shot, without actually saying it.
All O'Neill had to do was stare at Keane.
Keane staring back carries no threat, because we know he can't get anybody shot, as he's a southerner.
So if were in your nordie shoes, I wouldn't decommission the silent threat of the menace just yet.
There's still a bit of milage left in it.

[John83]

I love how Roy Keane gets the **** taken out of him for being a professional who takes his job seriously.
No, he gets the **** taken out of him for being a nutjob who holds everyone to impossible standards and seems to suck the joy out of everything. Maybe that's not a fair characterisation, but it's how many see him.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

No, he gets the **** taken out of him for being a nutjob who holds everyone to impossible standards and seems to suck the joy out of everything. Maybe that's not a fair characterisation, but it's how many see him.

Maybe he should try and motivate players by telling them that they are crap, like Trapattoni? Frankly, I don't agree with the softly softly approach and everyone patting themselves on the back for a job well done just because they e.g. blow a lead and draw a game they should have won or draw a game they should have won and drop two points that could have directed the group in a completely different direction had they been accrued.

I keep harping on about David Forde in Stockholm and I know he had a good game but seeing the guy fist pumping and acting like we had accomplished something made him look like he had stars in his eyes.

I also know his comments about the party atmosphere in Poland peeved some people but it's frankly embarrassing seeing fans do the Poznan, have sing songs and have the craic when we are getting trounced in every game.

We are there to compete not have a good time.

I can completely see where Keane is coming from.

People can rag on his managerial stint at Ipswich and his hard-line attitude but look where it got him - singlehandedly driving United to a Champions League final and dragging us to a World Cup. I hope he imparts his wisdom on the players and there won't be any more starstruck attitudes when we go up against Germany and no more attitude of "ah, a point will be grand" against teams like Poland and Scotland.

We can ill afford any complacency after the hand we have been dealt with this group.

[SkStu]

FFS you're arguing with yourself now. Stop winding yourself up.

[John83]

Maybe he should try and motivate players by telling them that they are crap, like Trapattoni?
I'd going to go out on a limb here and suggest there may be a middle ground.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

FFS you're arguing with yourself now. Stop winding yourself up.

What are you babbling about?

[SkStu]

What are you babbling about?

You're ranting needlessly. Again. With little to no provocation.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

I'd going to go out on a limb here and suggest there may be a middle ground.

Exactly. There should be a middle ground. Our players are not world beaters and Keane doesn't think they are, but their faults are nowhere near as exaggerated as the previous management made them out to be.

Damn right Keane should expect them to have the same high standards for themselves that he maintained over his illustrious career.

He's far from a nutjob. He's just coming from a perspective where he is getting paid to be as good at his job as possible and not have as good a time as possible.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

You're ranting needlessly. Again. With little to no provocation.

The "nutjob" comment about Keane was excessive. Of course I am going to argue it.

[SkStu]

Excessive? About right all things considered.


I'd waited long enough. I f****** hit him hard. The ball was there (I think). Take that you c***. And don't ever stand over me sneering about fake injuries.


Even in the dressing room afterwards, I had no remorse. My attitude was, f*** him. What goes around comes around. He got his just rewards. He f***** me over and my attitude is an eye for an eye.

For starters.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

I think it's very unfair to overlook all the trophies he won and his managerial accomplishments at Sunderland and condense it all into one flashpoint involving Alf-Inge Haaland.

He's a bit more than a "nutjob" and his personality got him a lot further in his career than any of the other wallflowers we currently have in our squad.

[SkStu]

Smashing player - genuine world class. Half decent manager. Nutjob.

[Charlie Darwin]

Excessive? About right all things considered.



For starters.
Stu, Stu, Stu... Keane didn't write that. Eamon Dunphy invented it all. That's a fact. Roy and Alfie are great pals.

[SkStu]

Stu, Stu, Stu... Keane didn't write that. Eamon Dunphy invented it all. That's a fact. Roy and Alfie are great pals.

I certainly feel there's some ambiguity in those Keane quotes.