Martin O'Neill and Roy Keane

[bennocelt]

His tenure has been a disaster? Really. What could he have done any different with this team?
There are players in this team who have should have been got rid of while Trap was in charge. No new players were blooded and then O'Neill was left with a certain group he had to proceed with in order to try to gain qualification.
Make no mistake about it, Martin O'Neill is one of the best managers out there. His time at the helm of the Ireland team will not change that one jot.

And that is why he is talked about for the Leicester job! Thats about his level really, mid team EPL, nothing more.

[mark12345]

No I'm not saying that, and in fact I would point to Costa Rica in the last World Cup and the likes of Paraguay, Chile and Belgium more recently. But this particular group has not worked because of a lack of quality all over the pitch, starting with the most porous defence we have had in a long time. We need a complete overhaul from the bottom up and indeed from the top down if you consider Delaney. But casting aside the success that O'Neill and Keane have had as players and managers as some have done on here, and indeed their knowledge of the Irish players out there would be second to none, and also casting aside the success Trap had as a manager before he came to Ireland, is just wrong. They were successful people in their lives, our players (the current bunch) with one or two exceptions have not been. So the players bear a huge amount of responsibility is what I would say.

[Kingdom]

and indeed their knowledge of the Irish players out there would be second to none,

ding ding ding, he's out.

[mark12345]

Which is not a bad level really. No he doesn't have the profile of an Ancelotti, Mourinho or Guardiola, but he is still a brilliant manager. Taking a Celtic team all the way to the Uefa Cup and managing them to victories over the likes of Juventus and Barcelona was nothing short of phenomenal. Taking Leicester to Wembley (twice was it?) against the top tier teams of that era, was also something brilliant. He also played on the N. Ireland team which shocked the world at the 1982 World Cup. And are you forgetting that he played under arguably the best coach of modern times in English football in Brian Clough. So he has quite a pedigree.

[mark12345]

ding ding ding, he's out.

Logic please?

[Charlie Darwin]

honestly who do you think is out there who would improve our squad?
Well to bring it back to the question I was addressing, who was there that wasn't there 12 months previously when Trap was in charge? MON brought in Hoolahan very sparingly and has only recently come to have faith in him. He's struck the right balance in defence but made a strange decision to recall a 38 year old goalkeeper. The midfield is a bit of a basket case still. He's played 10 different strikers and still doesn't know which one he wants to pick. The squad has aged faster than the two years he's been in charge for, and it wasn't a young squad to begin with.

[Eminence Grise]

So he has quite a pedigree.

You say pedigree, I say Peter Princple.

[Kingdom]

I don't believe for a single second that Martin O'Neill's knowledge of the best Irish players in the UK is second to none. Simple. It's not.

The point I was trying to get you to see earlier was this. O'Neill's Celtic were a breath of fresh air because they were different. His 3-5-2 in Europe with Guppy and Agathe utilised the squad he had to its maximum. That arguably is the formation that would suit us best, and utilise the best players available to us.

He didn't bother his jacksie trying anything worthwhile despite a huge amount of lead-in time that he himself bemoaned.

And don't pull the line of playing under one of the best managers of all time lark either. His football at Leicester was deplorable dirge that made the most of the ferocity of Matty Elliot and gerry Taggart at the back, Savage, Izzet and Lennon in midfield and that lump Heskey up top. The only team of note they beat getting to the 2nd final was Leeds, on penalties. They beat Tranmere in the final ffs. The year before again the only "major" team they beat was Leeds.

His Celtic tenure was a success, no doubt about it, and his European adventure was impressive. That's 12 years ago, and tbh, it shows, because football has steadily improved, but it looks like O'Neill has stood still.

[mark12345]

You say pedigree, I say Peter Princple.

Elaborate please

[jbyrne]

Let Keane use the rest of the games as an audition - we're all but out of realistic contention anyway.

we are not out of contention at all. it cant be argued that we are out of contention given our current situation while at the same time expressing the belief that there are managers out there who would improve our results. a draw at home to Germany and a win away to Poland should not be beyond such a manager

[mark12345]

I don't believe for a single second that Martin O'Neill's knowledge of the best Irish players in the UK is second to none. Simple. It's not.

The point I was trying to get you to see earlier was this. O'Neill's Celtic were a breath of fresh air because they were different. His 3-5-2 in Europe with Guppy and Agathe utilised the squad he had to its maximum. That arguably is the formation that would suit us best, and utilise the best players available to us.

He didn't bother his jacksie trying anything worthwhile despite a huge amount of lead-in time that he himself bemoaned.

And don't pull the line of playing under one of the best managers of all time lark either. His football at Leicester was deplorable dirge that made the most of the ferocity of Matty Elliot and gerry Taggart at the back, Savage, Izzet and Lennon in midfield and that lump Heskey up top. The only team of note they beat getting to the 2nd final was Leeds, on penalties. They beat Tranmere in the final ffs. The year before again the only "major" team they beat was Leeds.

His Celtic tenure was a success, no doubt about it, and his European adventure was impressive. That's 12 years ago, and tbh, it shows, because football has steadily improved, but it looks like O'Neill has stood still.

Maybe time has passed him by in the game, but if that indeed is a factor it is just negligible. He was involved up to a few years ago. And my point about knowledge of Irish players being second to none was that the combined force of Keane and O'Neill's knowledge of the Irish players out there would have been second to none (on the international stage) in my opinion. After all didn't we all bemoan Trap's lack of knowledge about the players available to him and didn't we say that he didn't attend enough matches. O'Neill and Keane were a vast improvement on that score. I don't disagree completely with your earlier point but I do have a problem with you dismissing his time under Clough so easily.

[Eminence Grise]

Deleted - didn't quote mark12345 and new posts popped in between.

[Eminence Grise]

Elaborate please

Sorry - thought the Peter Principle was a well-known concept. Managers are promoted because they do a job well, but will eventually find their level of incompetence with promotion to a job that is beyond them. It's not necessarily that they are incompetent, but, for example, that trends overtake the knowledge or skills that made them a success in the past - where their pedigree was shaped. http://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/peter-principle.asp has a bit more on it.

[mark12345]

Well to bring it back to the question I was addressing, who was there that wasn't there 12 months previously when Trap was in charge? MON brought in Hoolahan very sparingly and has only recently come to have faith in him. He's struck the right balance in defence but made a strange decision to recall a 38 year old goalkeeper. The midfield is a bit of a basket case still. He's played 10 different strikers and still doesn't know which one he wants to pick. The squad has aged faster than the two years he's been in charge for, and it wasn't a young squad to begin with.

"He's struck the right balance in defence"
Nothing but nothing could be further from the truth. That is where our problems begin and end, and indeed if someone wanted to aim missiles at O'Neill and Keane, they could very easily start there.

[mark12345]

Sorry - thought it was a well-known concept. Managers are promoted because they do a job well, but will eventually find their level of incompetence with promotion to a job that is beyond them. It's not necessarily that they are incompetent, but, for example, that trends overtake the knowledge or skills that made them a success in the past - where their pedigree was shaped. http://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/peter-principle.asp has a bit more on it.

It is possible that the game has passed MON by slightly, but as stated in an earlier post, such margins in his case, if they exist at all, are negligible. It depends on what we are talking about here. The 'Game' encompasses a lot of things and if we are comparing the Real Madrid / Barcelona / Germany / Brazil / Argentina level then I don't think we can apply that in this case. If we are talking more about our own level then I think Martin O'Neill was quite a good appointment under the circumstances. Failure has reared its ugly head however under his watch, but as Einstein said craziness is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. We have continued with hiring high profile managers in an effort to get the best out of a mediocre at best bunch of players. Change from the bottom up is long overdue

[Crosby87]

The parade is in full swing here chaps. We just threw paper at Carli and Tobin, both of our greatest state. I wish you chaps could experience the joy of sports success even one time. There's free hotdogs! Or as Stutts calls them weiners.

[mark12345]

The parade is in full swing here chaps. We just threw paper at Carli and Tobin, both of our greatest state. I wish you chaps could experience the joy of sports success even one time. There's free hotdogs! Or as Stutts calls them weiners.

How's the weather in Jersey?

[Kingdom]

Martin O'Neill won an awful lot as a player.
Martin O'Neill did play under one of the greatest managers the English game has seen
Martin O'Neill brought great success to Leicester, brought good success to Celtic, and comparable success to Wycombe.
Martin O'Neill's teams brought great determination and character to the field of play.

Martin O'Neill's teams have not played superb expansive football
Martin O'Neill has often been referred to as a great orator, and a great man-manager
Martin O'Neill's appointed coaches at club level have often been lauded by players for their innovation on the training field.
Martin O'Neill, like Brian Clough, was not lauded for his innovation on the training field, but his presence on the training field.

Giovanni Trappatoni took Ireland from our lowest ebb of modern times, and made us an extremely tough outfit to beat, even if the football was horrific. He went through one campaign unbeaten, and another campaign with one defeat.
Giovanni Trappatoni was on significant salary but due to the involvement in Euro2012, arguably earned that wage.
Giovanni Trappatoni stayed one campaign too long.

Under O'Neill, Ireland's squad is weaker.
Under O'Neill, Ireland have regressed tactically, defensively, offensively.
Under O'Neill, Ireland have not had value for money.

Leicester are welcome to him.

John Delaney needs to man up. Enough with the populist managers, and enough with ceding responsibility to managerial committees. Delaney needs to analyse what can be classified as success stories in modern-day football, and the conditions that made those teams a success. Tactics, coaching, innovation, luck, player pools. Not in the Uk, Not in Scotland, but in Europe. I could present the FAI with a dossier with that info given a few weeks and a few grand.


We're hung up appointing managers/coaches that know the "English" game. Knowing the English game isn't worth jacksheet when we'll be playing at least one Eastern team, one central European team and probably a Nordic team. Knowing the European game is important. Identifying a way to be effective against our peers, and identifying the players to do that is important.

And it doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg.

[Charlie Darwin]

I don't agree we've regressed tactically. He's made necessary changes Trap was unprepared to make.

[Kingdom]

It is possible that the game has passed MON by slightly, but as stated in an earlier post, such margins in his case, if they exist at all, are negligible. It depends on what we are talking about here. The 'Game' encompasses a lot of things and if we are comparing the Real Madrid / Barcelona / Germany / Brazil / Argentina level then I don't think we can apply that in this case. If we are talking more about our own level then I think Martin O'Neill was quite a good appointment under the circumstances. Failure has reared its ugly head however under his watch, but as Einstein said craziness is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. We have continued with hiring high profile managers in an effort to get the best out of a mediocre at best bunch of players. Change from the bottom up is long overdue

I really and truly do not understand a single bit of the above. I'm trying to read between the lines.

You are saying that is marginal if European football has bypassed MON's philosophy.

Why would we be comparing the elite club and elite national teams with ROI?
You could argue that generally you could combine pots 2,3 & 4 and there is not a great deal of difference from 90% of those teams. Our peers. But if we're talking about our peers, then you need to look at how much money Scotland pay Strachan, Poland pay Workowski, Czech's pay Vrba, Turkey pay Terim, Ukraine pay Formenko and so on and so forth, and it's then that you conclude if MON is a brilliant appointment for the money we're paying, and it just cannot be claimed that it is.
Conditions change regularily in football, and as is alluded elsewhere, some benefit, some lose out.

You say:
We have continued with hiring high profile managers in an effort to get the best out of a mediocre at best bunch of players. Change from the bottom up is long overdue

I say we've continued to hire the same style of manager in an effort to get the best out of a mediocre at best bunch of players. Change is long overdue

Martin O'Neill, for a footballing country like Ireland, with our economic state, earns a disgusting amount of money for the job he performs. No different to our CEO. The money paid to hire the present management team is ridiculous, and totally unnecessary.

[Kingdom]

I don't agree we've regressed tactically. He's made necessary changes Trap was unprepared to make.

I'll be clearer. I didn't appreciate the type of football Trap envisioned us playing. However he had a tactic that is best described as long-ball catenaccio.

Martin O'Neill did make changes. He has not made us tighter in defence. He has not made us better going forward. We're stuck in a limbo. We've had arguably 45 mins performance of note under O'Neill, and I think it's as much to do with Poland dropping their tempo as it was renaissance from us.

What I will grant him, is that the key players who were vital to Trap implementing his philosophy are either retired, injured or on the downward spiral under O'Neill (Dunne, Keane, McGeady, Andrews, Ledger).
We've no left-back, we've not got a settled formation, and we don't know what to do with the options we have available to us.

That is how I conclude we've regressed tactically. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

[back of the net]

I'll be clearer. I didn't appreciate the type of football Trap envisioned us playing. However he had a tactic that is best described as long-ball catenaccio.

Martin O'Neill did make changes. He has not made us tighter in defence. He has not made us better going forward. We're stuck in a limbo. We've had arguably 45 mins performance of note under O'Neill, and I think it's as much to do with Poland dropping their tempo as it was renaissance from us.

What I will grant him, is that the key players who were vital to Trap implementing his philosophy are either retired, injured or on the downward spiral under O'Neill (Dunne, Keane, McGeady, Andrews, Ledger).
We've no left-back, we've not got a settled formation, and we don't know what to do with the options we have available to us.

That is how I conclude we've regressed tactically. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.


I would be of a very similar opinion



http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/international/fai-will-not-stand-in-martin-o-neill-s-way-over-leicester-job-1.2280431

[Eminence Grise]

Interesting. Sounds like the deal is inching closer. Would the FAI be due any compensation from Leicester? I can't see Keane taking over as interim manager and being happy on his assistant's salary, so I'd imagine the savings that article suggests would be pretty slim.

[Crosby87]

Are you kidding? The FAI should compensate them.

[Eminence Grise]

You're on form today, Crosby!

[Crosby87]

And let me ask you this....why were the idiot mayor and governor on the lead floats as part of this parade? I mean the WWC had nothing to do with them. It shouldn't have even been here, it should have been on the west coast. Are your politicians as stupid as ours. Thank goodness the idiot in the white house didn't come. I had some skittles ready though just in case. Judging by my bathroom floor I have poor aim these days tho.

[zero]

And let me ask you this....why were the idiot mayor and governor on the lead floats as part of this parade? I mean the WWC had nothing to do with them. It shouldn't have even been here, it should have been on the west coast. Are your politicians as stupid as ours. Thank goodness the idiot in the white house didn't come. I had some skittles ready though just in case. Judging by my bathroom floor I have poor aim these days tho.

i have no idea what this post is about.

[SwanVsDalton]

If he leaves, it'll be the most disappointing managerial tenure of my time supporting Ireland. Kerr ended with a whimper, Staunton was farcicial but this - much lauded manager takes over and limps through half (HALF) a campaign before bailing out for Leicester - is just stunningly galling.

Hell, even if he stays it might still be the most disappointing tenure but if he can't even see out a campaign then he should be driven out asap. Waste of time.

I don't think we've regressed particularly, but I won't miss him. He didn't have the stomach for transition. I'm not convinced O'Neill really has the stomach for anything anymore.

Keane for the rest of the campaign and then what? The only thing I'd add is Gordon Strachan, Michael O'Neill and Chris Coleman don't have the hugest pedigrees (Strachan possibly excepted) which just goes to show attitude, application and motivation would go a lot further than any old big name.

Good riddence Martin. Such a let down.

[SwanVsDalton]

Indo story says FAI sources expect O'Neill to stay. (http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/latest-fai-sources-confident-martin-oneill-will-remain-despite-leicester-interest-31367632.html)

[DeLorean]

Keane for the rest of the campaign and then what?

And then we lose him to Manchester United after we win the Euros.

[Crosby87]

An Irish diplomat told me a few weeks ago that Kilbane will be the next manager. No kidding. You know where he told me that? At the dentists office across from the United Nations...which is strange on multiple levels. Does Killer even have his coaching badges Danny?

[Fixer82]

Killer has some coaching badges definitely. He says in his book he was doing coaching badges in Belfast

[back of the net]

Indo story says FAI sources expect O'Neill to stay. (http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/latest-fai-sources-confident-martin-oneill-will-remain-despite-leicester-interest-31367632.html)


Would it be wrong of me to say I was disappointed when I read that article?

[SkStu]

Calling him a muppet is completely uncalled for.

Calling Mick McCarthy a muppet? Its not the first time.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7am55bVPu1r0zulc.png

[Crosby87]

Stu did you see the Jean Claude Van Damme thing with the mentos commercial? It's hilarious.

[mark12345]

I really and truly do not understand a single bit of the above. I'm trying to read between the lines.

You are saying that is marginal if European football has bypassed MON's philosophy.

Why would we be comparing the elite club and elite national teams with ROI?
You could argue that generally you could combine pots 2,3 & 4 and there is not a great deal of difference from 90% of those teams. Our peers. But if we're talking about our peers, then you need to look at how much money Scotland pay Strachan, Poland pay Workowski, Czech's pay Vrba, Turkey pay Terim, Ukraine pay Formenko and so on and so forth, and it's then that you conclude if MON is a brilliant appointment for the money we're paying, and it just cannot be claimed that it is.
Conditions change regularily in football, and as is alluded elsewhere, some benefit, some lose out.

You say:

I say we've continued to hire the same style of manager in an effort to get the best out of a mediocre at best bunch of players. Change is long overdue

Martin O'Neill, for a footballing country like Ireland, with our economic state, earns a disgusting amount of money for the job he performs. No different to our CEO. The money paid to hire the present management team is ridiculous, and totally unnecessary.

I think you and I agree on most aspects of the MON situation but are talking apples and oranges on occasion. Agree one hundred per cent, the CEO does earn a disgusting amount of money - it has to stop right now (I'll bet it won't though). O'Neill is arguably overpaid as are all managers and players in the modern day, but that is relative. The FAI had to outlay that amount of money in the first place to attract him and then Keane, so in those terms they (the FAI) were always going to pay over the odds. My point is that I would prefer to see an amount of money set aside for hiring foreign coaches who can teach our kids how to play the game properly and then worry about spending money on a national team coach. It has to start somewhere and if we have to go with a less glamourous name then so be it. Under the circumstances however I still believe Martin O'Neill was the right appointment at the time. History has shown that he did not get the results in the business he's in, which is a results driven business. And in that regard you are 100 per cent correct. O'Neill hasn't done the job he's been paid to do. If you want to apportion blame you can lay some at Martin's door for the choices he's made along the way, but by and large the problems lie with the players. Our players have shown for several years now that they do not have what it takes. We need to stop (or should I say the FAI needs to stop) ignoring the grass roots game in Ireland and maybe then things will change.

[back of the net]

Indo now saying Leicester will make move for MON over the weekend

[the doc]

I think the FAI, will breathe a sigh of relief when this happens, think they realised they had made a mistake months ago.

Hes a spent force, a cheque book manager, who after all this time in charge still doesn't know his best eleven.
Added to the fact his ludicrous 30-40 man squads, and having more back-room staff than fans that sit in the singing section.

Best all round if he went, I fully expect Mick to be given the job.

And on an even brighter note.....http://m.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2015/07/09/long-road-back-orlando-city-scs-sean-st-ledger-proving-hes-not-done-yet

[shakermaker1982]

Sean you really have it in for MON! Even McCarthy getting the gig is no guarantee you will get called up again. Sure didn't he send you away from Ipswich when he had the chance to sign you?

I had wanted to give him the full campaign before making assessment on his tenure. I think he deserved a second campaign as well before making a decision on his future.

If he does go then it's more upheaval. Keane will no doubt have to bring all his own guys in again when the rest of his back room staff go to Leicester.

[TrapAPony]

So if Martin goes who's the new manager? Keane I would guess temporarily. I personally won't be surprised if 'Arry or Big Sam get into the mix after that. Doubt the FAI would go back to McCarthy for a second spell.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

You're reading way too much into the manager's contribution or lack of. Fact is we do not have a defence worthy of the name (Seamus Coleman is the only quality player - Robbie Brady though quite brilliant at times is a makeshift left back).
O'Shea, Wilson are not international quality (the comparison others make to Northern Ireland and Wales and Scotland getting the best of similar type players is great but does not apply in O'Shea's case at least because he has been there forever and has failed to do the job on most occasions) and Given is past it (but he has more experience than Westwood and is playing at the top level still).

A midfield with the likes of Whelan preferred (a legitimate weapon to use against MON) cannot expect to function properly, and a posse of superficial players further forward (Walters, McLean, McGeady, Long - all capable of very good performances at times but far too patchy at international level) and an aging world class striker in Robbie, and it is not hard to see why we are struggling. You can talk about all the tactical and personnel decisions you want but at the end of the day these 11 or 14 professionals are the ones who take to the field for any given international and if they are not performing then it does not matter who the manager is

Robbie Brady is a makeshift left back. Russell Martin is a makeshift center back and Scotland do fine. We don't have an established left back. Neither do Scotland and they do fine. Similar stories for Iceland, Wales and Belgium. You make do with what you get. Brady was an accident waiting to happen for 25 minutes during the Poland game and O'Neill had ample time to do something about it but he waited for Poland to score first before he altered anything. That's the recurring theme. Ireland only play and give O'Neill something to redeem himself when the opposition team stand off.

O'Shea is an International quality CB and it's disagreeable to say otherwise. He has often been the thread holding a ramshackle Sunderland defense together. Wilson is light years ahead of Grant Hanley in quality. Back to O'Shea: I was his biggest critic in times past but he has stepped up to the plate when others (Whelan) don't. Whelan does the bare minimum to keep himself in the team and nothing more.

It's inexcusable for a team to go out with the shape Ireland had when Scotland went level under no pressure at Lansdowne. I put that down to MON. It's the basics as far as I am concerned and something Trap God love him could at least ensure - shape. A sign of laziness as far as I am concerned too to have a team go out on the pitch with that kind of complacency right after a team talk.

The problems with Walters, McClean, McGeady & Long are all related. Walters is preferred to better players and is a square peg in a round hole. He's in the team ostensibly because McClean & Long & Brady at one time or other have all been mistrusted to do the basics of tracking back and getting in the opposition's faces - which is a slap in the face to players like McClean & Long. If McClean & Long are patchy - it is because they are never trusted sufficiently enough to get a run in the team; the latter still hasn't strung two competitive appearances together.

I'm sick of McGeady to be quite frank. If Coleman was moved up the pitch, we would get more use out of him. It would remove the straitjacket and he would offer more goals, assists and crucial passes than McGeady does. But McGeady's place in the team is set in stone.

O'Neill has utterly failed to get the best out of McCarthy. He gives Hendrick a chance but Hendrick looks half the player he does at club level - he was culpable for Scotland goals in either tie.

I'm sick of people saying we don't have the strikers. We had the best striker at the ground last month and he was left on the bench for 80 minutes while two players approaching their mid-thirties huffed and puffed and failed to blow the house down. It was, in my opinion, an absolutely moronic decision to leave Long (and McClean) on the bench. Just like Poland game - no pace anywhere on the pitch.

[mark12345]

So if Martin goes who's the new manager? Keane I would guess temporarily. I personally won't be surprised if 'Arry or Big Sam get into the mix after that. Doubt the FAI would go back to McCarthy for a second spell.

Arry or Big Sam? Yeah that's the way to go. We'll really be certainties to qualify for the Euros and then go on to make the semi-finals of the World Cup in Russia.
We (us fans) blame the FAI all night long for the perceived mistakes they make. Then, first chance we (fans) show that we are just as bad by calling for managers who will cost telephone numbers in terms of finances and just perpetuate the same ol' same ol'.

[Stuttgart88]

Indo now saying Leicester will make move for MON over the weekend
I gaurantee the Indo will be right!

[Stuttgart88]

I think the FAI, will breathe a sigh of relief when this happens, think they realised they had made a mistake months ago.

Hes a spent force, a cheque book manager, who after all this time in charge still doesn't know his best eleven.
Added to the fact his ludicrous 30-40 man squads, and having more back-room staff than fans that sit in the singing section.

Best all round if he went, I fully expect Mick to be given the job.

And on an even brighter note.....http://m.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2015/07/09/long-road-back-orlando-city-scs-sean-st-ledger-proving-hes-not-done-yeti think that's harsh....



...on the singing section.

[IsMiseSean]

If MON leaves, it's pointless giving the job to Keane on an interim basis. Unless of course he is seen as a serious candidate (which he shouldn't be)
The FAI will have most of July & all of August to get a new man in place and he can use the rest of the campaign to experiment. Why wait until the campaign is over?

It's all ifs & buts for the time being...

[mark12345]

Robbie Brady is a makeshift left back. Russell Martin is a makeshift center back and Scotland do fine. We don't have an established left back. Neither do Scotland and they do fine. Similar stories for Iceland, Wales and Belgium. You make do with what you get. Brady was an accident waiting to happen for 25 minutes during the Poland game and O'Neill had ample time to do something about it but he waited for Poland to score first before he altered anything. That's the recurring theme. Ireland only play and give O'Neill something to redeem himself when the opposition team stand off.

O'Shea is an International quality CB and it's disagreeable to say otherwise. He has often been the thread holding a ramshackle Sunderland defense together. Wilson is light years ahead of Grant Hanley in quality. Back to O'Shea: I was his biggest critic in times past but he has stepped up to the plate when others (Whelan) don't. Whelan does the bare minimum to keep himself in the team and nothing more.

It's inexcusable for a team to go out with the shape Ireland had when Scotland went level under no pressure at Lansdowne. I put that down to MON. It's the basics as far as I am concerned and something Trap God love him could at least ensure - shape. A sign of laziness as far as I am concerned too to have a team go out on the pitch with that kind of complacency right after a team talk.

The problems with Walters, McClean, McGeady & Long are all related. Walters is preferred to better players and is a square peg in a round hole. He's in the team ostensibly because McClean & Long & Brady at one time or other have all been mistrusted to do the basics of tracking back and getting in the opposition's faces - which is a slap in the face to players like McClean & Long. If McClean & Long are patchy - it is because they are never trusted sufficiently enough to get a run in the team; the latter still hasn't strung two competitive appearances together.

I'm sick of McGeady to be quite frank. If Coleman was moved up the pitch, we would get more use out of him. It would remove the straitjacket and he would offer more goals, assists and crucial passes than McGeady does. But McGeady's place in the team is set in stone.

O'Neill has utterly failed to get the best out of McCarthy. He gives Hendrick a chance but Hendrick looks half the player he does at club level - he was culpable for Scotland goals in either tie.

I'm sick of people saying we don't have the strikers. We had the best striker at the ground last month and he was left on the bench for 80 minutes while two players approaching their mid-thirties huffed and puffed and failed to blow the house down. It was, in my opinion, an absolutely moronic decision to leave Long (and McClean) on the bench. Just like Poland game - no pace anywhere on the pitch.

Robbie Brady is a make shift left-back. Agreed. The face that Russel Martin is a make shift center back doesn't mean anything in terms of Robbie Brady. And yes you are correct, we don't have a recognized left back and you do have to make do. But it's not working for Ireland is it? Brady was a decent choice for the position - I called for McLean to be placed there about a year ago, with Brady further forward. But even those changes wouldn't have been earth shattering for Ireland in the big scheme of things, would they?

"O'Shea is an International quality CB and it's disagreeable to say otherwise." Well let me be disagreeable all day long because he is nowhere near the standard that's required. An international CB - I am looking for Carlos Puyol, Sergio Ramos, John Terry, Pique. But we don't have any such player do we? All we have is big John who has been putting his head to every high ball and his boot to every low ball for over a decade now for Ireland. And who can forget his masterful performance against Italy at Lansdowne when they scored two goals he was wholly responsible for?
"I was his biggest critic in times past but he has stepped up to the plate when others (Whelan) don't. Whelan does the bare minimum to keep himself in the team and nothing more." Agree one hundred per cent about Whelan but O'Shea has presided over an Irish defence which is good for a goal a game home or away. How has he stepped up to the plate? At the end of the day it's not his fault really (nor Whelan's for that matter) if successive managers keep picking them.

McLean and Long being patchy? They have been patchy. McLean cannot be faulted for his commitment and clearly gives us a bit of umph when he comes on as a sub, but having been in the team for three years now (maybe less) he's beginning to be affected by the malaise they all seem to suffer under which is not being able to hold the ball and play as a team. On the subject of Long, O'Neill owes him nothing. He has had his chances in front of goal for Ireland and missed far too many to be considered reliable. Having said that I would have started him in place of Murphy against Scotland, because he does carry more of a threat.

[mark12345]

If MON leaves, it's pointless giving the job to Keane on an interim basis. Unless of course he is seen as a serious candidate (which he shouldn't be)
The FAI will have most of July & all of August to get a new man in place and he can use the rest of the campaign to experiment. Why wait until the campaign is over?

It's all ifs & buts for the time being...

Agree completely. Cut our losses in this campaign and start working on a long term manager who will focus on youth development. It would show some real commitment on the part of the FAI. But that of course would mean less shillings in their coffers. Now what are the chances of that happening?

[back of the net]

Agree completely. Cut our losses in this campaign and start working on a long term manager who will focus on youth development. It would show some real commitment on the part of the FAI. But that of course would mean less shillings in their coffers. Now what are the chances of that happening?

Suggestions for a long term senior team manager who will focus on youth development?

[TrapAPony]

Arry or Big Sam? Yeah that's the way to go.
Never said either were my choices but they are free & I'd doubt the FAI are going to want to pay compensation to get someone currently in a job. If it was my choice I'd go for Guus Hiddink maybe even a youngish manager like Roberto Di Matteo.

[swinfordfc]

It doesn't who the manager is - we are just not good enough ..... end of! Every time there is a Ireland game nowadays - its like a circus .... its a PR disaster - more stupid stories every day leading up to the game - we going no way in a hurry so give it to who doesn't cost a forture - the only reason the two are in it now cause it put bums on seats but this is going to change in the autumn - there's be half empty stadium!