Third Tier Talk - A Championship Mk II

[Buckett]

I just looked on Google maps and there's another pitch beside the running track with, what looks like, a small spectator stand on one side. Ground looks very tight though

[kksaints]

Been a while since I was down there, but isn't the Watershed just a running track with no spectator facilities at all?

Pretty much,.I can't imagine it would be used for anything other than academy matches.

[legendz]

Interestingly CK United have a post on their Instagram from a week ago thanking some contractors for working on their dugouts to bring the Watershed up to LOI Stadium standard. They could be playing matches in the Watershed in Kilkenny which makes much more sense than Tullow. Real shame they can't use Buckley Park after Castlewarren Celtic cleaned it up last year.
I was of the impression that they were based in The Watershed in Kilkenny as well. They admit Buckley Park would be the ideal but for whatever reason that is not possible.
On the subject of Treaty, I don't see visibility that they are doing enough to garner support from Clare and North Tipperary. It's one thing saying people should support their nearest LoI club but are the nearest LoI clubs playing their part. Treaty could have preseason friendlies against Clare League and North Tipperary. At youth level they should have something similar or offer trials in both locations annually.

[culloty82]

A summary of today's Pathways Document, which can be downloaded in full on the FAI website:

https://archive.is/ngI2B

The third tier has been officially christened the "National League Premier" with Northern and Southern groups, the key question being if preparations, consultation, etc begin immediately, can it be up and running by this time next year?

[EalingGreen]

A summary of today's Pathways Document, which can be downloaded in full on the FAI website:

https://archive.is/ngI2B

The third tier has been officially christened the "National League Premier" with Northern and Southern groups, the key question being if preparations, consultation, etc begin immediately, can it be up and running by this time next year?From the above:
"Now, the FAI have split the age groups into five sections from age five up to adult football, with leagues to be played up to Under-14 level from February to June and blitzes, football camps and mini leagues to take place afterwards."

Kevin Doyle has an interesting take on this:
https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2024/0220/1433477-well-lose-players-to-gaa-doyles-summer-fears/

Has he got a point, or is he overstating it?

[passinginterest]

He's overstating it. I grew up playing all the sports in Wexford too. There was always overlap anyway, even back then (same era as Kevin himself, think we even played against each other at least once). The clubs find a way to work together with training and games, neither can afford to lose players. There will be some who have to choose, but to be honest, I don't think that's a bad thing. For a lot of kids, the push to play just about everything leads to burn out or just not pushing on from being pretty good at lots of sports to maybe becoming very good at a single one. It's definitely tough in rural counties to pull away from the GAA, there's a lot of pressure not to let the parish down, and I think that still exists, but a proper football career pathway should help parents and kids to make the choice to go in that direction.

[joey B]

There’s as usual plenty of self interest going on ,Shane Keegan who’s employed by the GAA seems to be railing against it aswell,others lying about there being no consultation,all very symbolic of why we’re in the mess we’re in ….

[nigel-harps1954]

There's loads of the usual "grassroots being forgotten in favour of senior clubs" nonsense being championed across the country, which is utter sh!te.

I hope the plan is pushed through, and anyone who doesn't like it can start their own unaffiliated leagues that have no tie to FAI or any grant monies.

[passinginterest]

There's loads of the usual "grassroots being forgotten in favour of senior clubs" nonsense being championed across the country, which is utter sh!te.

I hope the plan is pushed through, and anyone who doesn't like it can start their own unaffiliated leagues that have no tie to FAI or any grant monies.

Couldn't agree more. It's little fiefdoms clinging to power that prevent any meaningful change. The big schoolboy clubs farming kids to England didn't have a care for "grassroots" either. They hoovered up young lads from all over the country with their promises of trials in England. Genuine local grassroots clubs will always have a place, but it the plan works as intended, the elite will have much better opportunities to be noticed, to train with similar level players and to potentially have a career in the game in Ireland, if not in Europe or England. If they do go abroad, hopefully the new system will lead to them being better trained, educated and prepared. It should benefit players, clubs, regional leagues, the league of Ireland and the international team if it's implemented with proper rigour. It's not going to happen overnight, but it absolutely should happen.

[culloty82]

He's overstating it. I grew up playing all the sports in Wexford too. There was always overlap anyway, even back then (same era as Kevin himself, think we even played against each other at least once). The clubs find a way to work together with training and games, neither can afford to lose players. There will be some who have to choose, but to be honest, I don't think that's a bad thing. For a lot of kids, the push to play just about everything leads to burn out or just not pushing on from being pretty good at lots of sports to maybe becoming very good at a single one. It's definitely tough in rural counties to pull away from the GAA, there's a lot of pressure not to let the parish down, and I think that still exists, but a proper football career pathway should help parents and kids to make the choice to go in that direction.

Many of the top intercounty players in Kerry would have played both sports until fairly late on (Darran O'Sullivan, the Cliffords, Mikey Sheehy, among others), not to mention Billy Dennehy playing minor before his LoI career, but generally by the age of 16 it tends to be clear who has the potential to play at senior level, and specialise accordingly, so the idea that scheduling the KDL on a calendar year basis would see anyone extra "lost" to the GAA is rather unlikely.

[Jamesie]

In Norman times, the area was known as "Ossory" and indeed "Ormond", but can't imagine either catching on!

Bagenalstown Ultras group doesn't really do it for me

[legendz]

Participation in the youth leagues should be a prerequisite for joining the mooted third tier. I haven't seen any indication that will be the case from the pathway plans released so far.
Let's say Fanad United who joined the A Championship want to join the third tier, they should also have to enter teams in all the youth leagues.

[joey B]

https://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/sport/1434671/ck-united-hope-to-bring-league-of-ireland-football-back-to-kilkenny.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook&fbclid=IwAR1arWmfadGMaglmpnj89xn8Dc1HgPSvPSa6DvVdG 6xwwVlDCKfuoCxMdGM

Piece on CK United using the Watershed in Kilkenny as a venue for their underage teams,mention of Buckley Park in there aswell which would be great if they could get it in use again and much better than setting up in Tullow....

[Martinho II]

https://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/sport/1434671/ck-united-hope-to-bring-league-of-ireland-football-back-to-kilkenny.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook&fbclid=IwAR1arWmfadGMaglmpnj89xn8Dc1HgPSvPSa6DvVdG 6xwwVlDCKfuoCxMdGM

Piece on CK United using the Watershed in Kilkenny as a venue for their underage teams,mention of Buckley Park in there aswell which would be great if they could get it in use again and much better than setting up in Tullow....

Havent being in Buckley Park in nearly 20 years since the time Kilkenny City knocked us out of the FAI Cup. Would love to see a CK team for that neck of the woods even if if its in the third tier. I would love to see promotion/relegation from 2nd tier to 3rd tier happen

[nigel-harps1954]

Watershed is in a far better location, to be fair, right on the outskirts of town, but would take huge money to get it up to scratch for hosting League of Ireland football. If the opportunity was there to use Buckley Park, it would be a no brainer

[culloty82]

If they did apply for the 2023 First Division and met all the conditions, then I'm sure clubs would have accommodated an 11-team division, temporary awkwardness aside?

[legendz]

The Premier Division and First Division should remain at 10 clubs. The First Division used to only play 27 games. The current 36 game season is fine.
The noises from the FAI doesn't make it likely that clubs entering the youth leagues will form part of licensing. Possibly that might be a licensing requirement for possible promotion to the First Division through a promotion/relegation playoff.
If a third tier is to get off the ground in two regional divisions, they'll need at least 16 teams split in two divisions of 8. The 3 non LoI clubs currently in the youth leagues and 5 second teams might be achievable. Attracting another 8 is ambitious.

[nigel-harps1954]

The Premier Division and First Division should remain at 10 clubs. The First Division used to only play 27 games. The current 36 game season is fine.
The noises from the FAI doesn't make it likely that clubs entering the youth leagues will form part of licensing. Possibly that might be a licensing requirement for possible promotion to the First Division through a promotion/relegation playoff.
If a third tier is to get off the ground in two regional divisions, they'll need at least 16 teams split in two divisions of 8. The 3 non LoI clubs currently in the youth leagues and 5 second teams might be achievable. Attracting another 8 is ambitious.

There's plenty of clubs who'll join a regional third tier. It's the idea of a national third tier that would put them off. If your maximum travel distance was 2.5 or 3 hours, it would be grand for an intermediate club to step up to semi-pro level. Would wager there'll be no shortage of clubs to step in there.

[Bunny Kelly]

Watershed is in a far better location, to be fair, right on the outskirts of town, but would take huge money to get it up to scratch for hosting League of Ireland football. If the opportunity was there to use Buckley Park, it would be a no brainer


Watershed is a non runner for anything other than underage football as no chance of developing room for supporters.

If Buckley Park was a runner then they could develop their site in Tullow as maybe a training base for the club giving them a good footprint in both counties.

[Buckett]

I hope you're right Nigel. Clubs in Connacht are just not interested, several attempts have been made to get the Connacht Senior League going again. It will depend on the prize money that'll be on offer. Do the winners of either the Munster or Leinster Senior Leagues receive any money?

[culloty82]

There's plenty of clubs who'll join a regional third tier. It's the idea of a national third tier that would put them off. If your maximum travel distance was 2.5 or 3 hours, it would be grand for an intermediate club to step up to semi-pro level. Would wager there'll be no shortage of clubs to step in there.

The current FAI plan is for Northern and Southern divisions, so presumably the dividing line would be between Dublin and Galway, which would reduce travel times in both directions.

[legendz]

Original noises from the FAI were about amateur and college teams joining a third tier. Are any third level institutions likely to join?

[culloty82]

UCC tend to be relatively competitive, so would be surprised if they didn't express an interest.

[EalingGreen]

This BBC NI article on the race for promotion to the NIFL Premiership from the Championship contains an interesting snippet on Bangor FC, which illustrates the importance of having a genuine league pyramid, even beyond the 3rd tier etc:

"Once a stalwart of Irish League football, Bangor are another club who have had a remarkable rise after a number of difficult few years.
For the first time in the club's 98-year-history, the Seasiders were relegated to the third tier in 2016 over licencing issues, and dropped out of the football league altogether the following season after another relegation.
They managed to get back into the third tier in 2019 and Lee Feeney, cousin of former Northern Ireland striker and Glentoran manager Warren, guided the club to the Premier Intermediate title last season.
Their revival has continued into the current campaign, where they have kept pace with the current leaders and are firmly in the hunt as they look to return to the top flight."

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/onesport/cps/976/cpsprodpb/C62E/production/_133043705_championshiptable.jpg

Full article here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68692787

[Martinho II]

Any famous NI players that started with Bangor Ealing Green? Wasnt Keith Gillespie born there?

[nigel-harps1954]

Any famous NI players that started with Bangor Ealing Green? Wasnt Keith Gillespie born there?

Gerry Armstrong was Bangor I think

[EalingGreen]

Any famous NI players that started with Bangor Ealing Green?Terry Neill was a youth player for Bangor before he joined Arsenal when he was still 17 (just). Made his debut at 18 and became their youngest ever captain at 20.

Him and Gerry Armstrong were the two most notable players and even there, Armstrong joined them from Cromac Albion (reasonably prominent Amateur League club who also had Mal Donaghy on their books). While Steve Morrow was on Bangor's books as a youth (never played for the Senior team) before signing for Arsenal, ditto Steven Craigan to Motherwell

Roddy Collins also played for them in season 1994/95, including taking over as Player Manager mid-season, his first foray into management. Does that count? :)


Wasnt Keith Gillespie born there?Often thought of as a Bangor Boy, but he was actually born in Larne and first went to Primary School nearby. Family later moved to Bangor, where he went to another PS, before passing his 11+ and getting into Bangor Grammar, a rugby/hockey school.

Was playing for St.Andrews, a Boys Club in Belfast, when he was scouted by Man Utd aged 16:
"[Coach Joe Kincaid] went along to the summer coaching courses with the idea of recruiting potential talent for St Andrews.
"And it was at one of the summer coaching courses, at Orangefield, that I first noticed Keith Gillespie. He ran like Seb Coe and his skills were excellent. I knew straight away that he was going to be a great player. I approached his father Harry, explained a little about St Andrews and asked him if he'd like to bring Keith along to the club.
"Keith joined the club, played in our under-13 team along with some exceptional young players, and in the first year won St Andrews' first trophy.
"Keith came through all the teams at St Andrews and I know at times he had a problem with his school Bangor Grammar allowing him to play football. But I think, in all his time with us, he only missed one or two games because he had to play hockey for the school."
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/sport/football-saint-joe-of-the-shankill/28401247.html

More on Bangor FC here, if anyone's really interested:
http://irishleaguegreats.blogspot.com/2009/06/bangor-fc.html

[Martinho II]

Terry Neill was a youth player for Bangor before he joined Arsenal when he was still 17 (just). Made his debut at 18 and became their youngest ever captain at 20.

Him and Gerry Armstrong were the two most notable players and even there, Armstrong joined them from Cromac Albion (reasonably prominent Amateur League club who also had Mal Donaghy on their books). While Steve Morrow was on Bangor's books as a youth (never played for the Senior team) before signing for Arsenal, ditto Steven Craigan to Motherwell

Roddy Collins also played for them in season 1994/95, including taking over as Player Manager mid-season, his first foray into management. Does that count? :)

Often thought of as a Bangor Boy, but he was actually born in Larne and first went to Primary School nearby. Family later moved to Bangor, where he went to another PS, before passing his 11+ and getting into Bangor Grammar, a rugby/hockey school.

Was playing for St.Andrews, a Boys Club in Belfast, when he was scouted by Man Utd aged 16:
"[Coach Joe Kincaid] went along to the summer coaching courses with the idea of recruiting potential talent for St Andrews.
"And it was at one of the summer coaching courses, at Orangefield, that I first noticed Keith Gillespie. He ran like Seb Coe and his skills were excellent. I knew straight away that he was going to be a great player. I approached his father Harry, explained a little about St Andrews and asked him if he'd like to bring Keith along to the club.
"Keith joined the club, played in our under-13 team along with some exceptional young players, and in the first year won St Andrews' first trophy.
"Keith came through all the teams at St Andrews and I know at times he had a problem with his school Bangor Grammar allowing him to play football. But I think, in all his time with us, he only missed one or two games because he had to play hockey for the school."
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/sport/football-saint-joe-of-the-shankill/28401247.html

More on Bangor FC here, if anyone's really interested:
http://irishleaguegreats.blogspot.com/2009/06/bangor-fc.html

Had actually forgotten that the Rodster had started his managerial campaign with Bangor!

[culloty82]

Limerick FC have tweeted that an announcement of a "new era" will be made tomorrow at noon, but given how poorly their underage teams are performing, the only one that should be made is a merger with Treaty, with the latter regaining the legal rights to the Limerick name.

[Martinho II]

Limerick FC have tweeted that an announcement of a "new era" will be made tomorrow at noon, but given how poorly their underage teams are performing, the only one that should be made is a merger with Treaty, with the latter regaining the legal rights to the Limerick name.

didnt know Limerick FC are still around? Had heard rumours...

[Buckett]

They never went away! They've been in the national underage leagues since leaving senior football

[culloty82]

Their U17 side this year: P14 W0 D1 L13 GF7 GA72
U15s P9 W0 D0 L9 GF5 GA 65

[NeverFeltBetter]

Oh God, take your bets. New owners?

[Shearer]

Limerick FC have tweeted that an announcement of a "new era" will be made tomorrow at noon, but given how poorly their underage teams are performing, the only one that should be made is a merger with Treaty, with the latter regaining the legal rights to the Limerick name.
No chance in hell

[pateen]

O'Sullivan still at the wheel?

[NeverFeltBetter]

A new "Director of football" in Dennis Lukens, previously of the failed Dublin County FC: https://x.com/LimerickFCie/status/1815703499633479939/photo/2

[EatYerGreens]

They never went away! They've been in the national underage leagues since leaving senior football

So since they last played LOI football in 2019 they've been continuing at underage level? Who's been paying for tbat - O'Sullivan?

[Buckett]

Not sure, I'd say so. Didn't they announce some lad as their academy manager a few years ago? Former Bolton player?

[joey B]

So since they last played LOI football in 2019 they've been continuing at underage level? Who's been paying for tbat - O'Sullivan?

Yip it’s all O’Sullivan,regularly getting absolutely slaughtered aswell….

[Burnsie]

was Lukens involved at Athlone at all? There's been a bang of Dublin County off them the last couple of years,

[Nesta99]

Dublin City fc/Home Farm Everton/Home Farm Drumcondra/ Home Farm Fingal/HF FC rather than Dublin County? Athlone is a bit odd in whatever goes on, dont think its the Irish Sea FC lot though, not in up front names. I did kind of think they could go the way of Dublin City FC but they are doing something right and have improved on field whomever is behind them.

[Buckett]

A question for the Limerick lads; if Limerick FC returned to senior football, who would have more support, Limerick or Treaty?

[Acornvilla]

I'm more limerick adjacent, but wouldn't have any interest in the old ownership bringing Limerick back in to the league. I'd do whatever Tommy Barrett told me :D


Treaty should change their name and be done with it.

[EatYerGreens]

A question for the Limerick lads; if Limerick FC returned to senior football, who would have more support, Limerick or Treaty?

The one good thing about the lack of a pyramid is that the FAI can - and would - find a way/excuse to not have 2 Limerick clubs in the league at the same time.

[culloty82]

Similarly to how the whole Salthill/Mervue/Galway farrago was ultimately resolved.

[Another Bohemia]

I'm more limerick adjacent, but wouldn't have any interest in the old ownership bringing Limerick back in to the league. I'd do whatever Tommy Barrett told me :D


Treaty should change their name and be done with it.

Half Joke half serious but I wonder if there would be any appetite to rebrand treaty as Real Limerick FC, ala Real Salt Lake and the lesser known Real Madrid. It would certainly ruffle a few feathers anyway

[Shearer]

A question for the Limerick lads; if Limerick FC returned to senior football, who would have more support, Limerick or Treaty?
Limerick are dead and buried and never coming back. Not after ending Sean Russell's career, creating the environment for match fixing to occur leading to innocent teens having their phones taken off them by CAB and much more.

They were kicked out of UL years ago and Hogan Park (Rathbane) recently, to the point that they play their games in Charleville - famously not in Limerick.

[joey B]

Limerick are dead and buried and never coming back. Not after ending Sean Russell's career, creating the environment for match fixing to occur leading to innocent teens having their phones taken off them by CAB and much more.

They were kicked out of UL years ago and Hogan Park (Rathbane) recently, to the point that they play their games in Charleville - famously not in Limerick.

One of the most bizarre stories in Irish football in recent years,how can they think there’s any future in what they’re doing?

[Acornvilla]

One man's ego can go a long way.

I think he meant well, maybe it's good that some kids in Limerick have had underage LOI experience with this cursed entity, but otherwise the fact it hasn't been put down by now is wild to me.

[Burnsie]

is he clinging on in the hope of pocketing get 0.5% of Ogbene's future transfer fee?