Log in

View Full Version : Third Tier Talk - A Championship Mk II



Pages : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 [11] 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

EatYerGreens
13/07/2022, 11:04 PM
Then Derry City should rejoin the IFA since the reason of their original expulsion/exemption no longer exists.

I'm pretty sure they are members of both the IFA and the FAI ? Hence their women can play in the north.

Obviously what the LOI really needs is to lose another club.

What do you believe were the reasons why Dery City left the IL btw? Given that the reasons why Bohs and Shels left the IL in 1921/22 arguably no longer apply either, I suspect you haven't thought this through entirely :D Losing one LOI club to the north would be careless. Losing 3 would be a calamity.

legendz
14/07/2022, 6:45 AM
Summer football?

Winter football?

Both? Any district leagues offering promotion to the same league should align their seasons to be the same for obvious reasons.
The FAI have made noises that they want to increase the geographical spread of the youth leagues. If a third tier comes about, it should allow applications from non league entities in the youth leagues, e.g. any region that might try and replicate what Kerry FC are trying to do. For this reason the mooted third tier and the suggested promotion from district leagues to intermediate leagues can offer a dual pyramid approach.

Burnsie
14/07/2022, 9:16 AM
That's where the FAI should step in, as they did with senior football in the early 2000s, saying there would be a short transitional season in the autumn, in order for all the intermediate and junior leagues to align to the summer football calendar.

that'd make for one hell of row.

I believe it's been FAI policy to switch everything to calendar year for some years now but when the DDSL took advantage of the post-Delaney meltdown to unilaterally move back to a winter season, that holed the plan below the water - and there's certainly been no love lost between that organisation and the FAI in the meantime.

And the LSL recently voted comprehensively against a switch to a calendar season.

So that's the biggest underage and adult leagues (by a large margin, in both cases) who'd need to perform spectacular about-turns

legendz
14/07/2022, 10:32 AM
that'd make for one hell of row.

I believe it's been FAI policy to switch everything to calendar year for some years now but when the DDSL took advantage of the post-Delaney meltdown to unilaterally move back to a winter season, that holed the plan below the water - and there's certainly been no love lost between that organisation and the FAI in the meantime.

And the LSL recently voted comprehensively against a switch to a calendar season.

So that's the biggest underage and adult leagues (by a large margin, in both cases) who'd need to perform spectacular about-turnsThe LSL rejecting the calendar season is a vote that they are not seeking promotion to the League of Ireland. Let them be. Promotion from district leagues to intermediate leagues can coexist with a separate third tier. It's the lie of the land.

GUFCghost
15/07/2022, 10:26 AM
I think you're dead right, Legendz.
Let intermediate and senior football run parallel to each other for a while. In the meantime we can resurrect the A-Championship and hopefully a combination of reforms making intermediate football stronger and properly regional combined with a strong A-Championship will make clubs actually want to climb the ladder.

Or maybe not, maybe the intermediate clubs will be happy as big fish in small ponds for ever. In that case we're better off with intermediate leagues that atleast have a proper geographic spread. Lord knows how many good players have been lost in Connacht since the CSL was abandoned.

culloty82
23/07/2022, 4:56 PM
The "aim" for the proposed third tier has now been officially postponed until 2024:

https://twitter.com/OCowzer/status/1550819477092171776

pineapple stu
23/07/2022, 5:20 PM
I am shocked.

It'd be interesting to see if there's been any real progress towards it in the background at all.

sadloserkid
23/07/2022, 7:26 PM
I am also flabbergasted at this news. I suppose it gives Irish Sea an extra year to get their house in order.

sidewayspasser
23/07/2022, 7:32 PM
Not surprised at all to be honest. It was all too quiet on that front in the past few months. When the news came through that Kerry FC are looking for a FD license for next year, with no official word on the third tier in that context, it already looked like there won't be a third tier in 2023.
Should I hold my breath for 2024? I'm not sure...

culloty82
23/07/2022, 7:42 PM
If any new sides move up to the U19 league in 2023, that would indicate they're considering senior status - that said, can't imagine anyone bar Kildare being prepared for that at present.

sadloserkid
24/07/2022, 9:17 AM
Dropping the Klub part of their name should be a requirement for any Kildare plans to step up.

EatYerGreens
24/07/2022, 6:20 PM
The "aim" for the proposed third tier has now been officially postponed until 2024:

https://twitter.com/OCowzer/status/1550819477092171776

As the old saying goes 'A League of Ireland third tier is the future - and always wil be'.

EatYerGreens
24/07/2022, 6:21 PM
Dropping the Klub part of their name should be a requirement for any Kildare plans to step up.

Kouldn't agree more.

sbgawa
26/07/2022, 8:12 AM
The fai should spend the next year kicking the leinster senior league and DDSL suits into a calender year. Time for the association to actually run football in ireland. Whatever it takes to make the suits see sense

Burnsie
26/07/2022, 9:47 AM
The LSL chairman, was on the board for a time at FAI nua, during that initial transition phase, but then lost his seat, and also lost the election for President (or Vice?). He now seems to have beef with the FAI, and was asking pointed questions from the floor at the FAI AGM last weekend.

So while he definitely seemed open to the idea of a calendar year season, I don't be amenable to strong-arming.

(but you're entirely correct in your general point)

legendz
27/07/2022, 1:34 PM
Shamrock Rovers are the only League of Ireland club with the ambition to field a reserve team?
Kildare, Carlow Kilkenny and Cavan Monaghan are only at U17 level. A Harps supporter doesn't see much of a future for Cavan Monaghan.
'23 has become '24 and will probably become '25 etc.

GUFCghost
31/07/2022, 2:47 PM
"All the leagues are connected by a promotion and relegation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Promotion_and_relegation) system, but in order to be promoted to the Eerste Divisie (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eerste_Divisie) a club has to submit a solid business plan to be approved by the Royal Dutch Football Association (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Dutch_Football_Association), as well as meet certain stadium demands, and some other demands that the association stated for all the teams in the top two leagues."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_football_league_system Came across this in a random discussion, reminded me of our own situation.

I think a lot of people here are caught up in imitating the scots & the english. I particularly don't buy this idea that "everyone else has a pyramid and so should we" because it's not totally true and even if it was, is a system that works in a highly urbanized, 50 million plus country going to work in a much smaller country where the population is spread out?

EalingGreen
31/07/2022, 4:49 PM
"All the leagues are connected by a promotion and relegation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Promotion_and_relegation) system, but in order to be promoted to the Eerste Divisie (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eerste_Divisie) a club has to submit a solid business plan to be approved by the Royal Dutch Football Association (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Dutch_Football_Association), as well as meet certain stadium demands, and some other demands that the association stated for all the teams in the top two leagues."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_football_league_system Came across this in a random discussion, reminded me of our own situation.

What you describe in Netherlands IS a pyramid, just one adapted to their own particular circumstances.

Re. the Business Plan, they presumably think it essential, since promotion to the 2nd level entails going from Amateur to Professional. It is not needed eg in England, since clubs in the 5th tier all f-t, and those in the 6th, 7th and 8th tiers etc are p-t.

As for the stadium requirements, exactly the same exists eg in England, where teams getting promoted from the 5th tier to the EFL need a grass pitch, in a stadium which holds at least 5k spectators. Initially 1k of these have to be seats, with this raised to 2k by the end of a third consecutive season at that level. And I'm pretty sure that simply bolting seats onto terraces doesn't count - i.e. they have to be properly installed and under cover etc, with proper turmstiles, exits, toilets and catering facilities etc.
Meaning that since Harrogate Town gained promotion to the EFL for season 2021/22, they've needed to spend £3.4m upgrading their stadium and pitch to the required standard, while ground-sharing with Doncaster until the minimum work was completed:
https://www.thestadiumbusiness.com/2022/05/19/harrogate-town-planning-stadium-improvements/



I think a lot of people here are caught up in imitating the scots & the english. I particularly don't buy this idea that "everyone else has a pyramid and so should we" because it's not totally true and even if it was, is a system that works in a highly urbanized, 50 million plus country going to work in a much smaller country where the population is spread out?
"A much smaller country where the population is spread out", is it?

Scotalnd has just 400k more people than ROI, but is also more spread out, while NI has only 40% of the ROI's population, albeit with greater population density [insert own joke here].

Both easily maintain a footballing pyramid.

GUFCghost
31/07/2022, 5:37 PM
What you describe in Netherlands IS a pyramid, just one adapted to their own particular circumstances.

Re. the Business Plan, they presumably think it essential, since promotion to the 2nd level entails going from Amateur to Professional. It is not needed eg in England, since clubs in the 5th tier all f-t, and those in the 6th, 7th and 8th tiers etc are p-t.

As for the stadium requirements, exactly the same exists eg in England, where teams getting promoted from the 5th tier to the EFL need a grass pitch, in a stadium which holds at least 5k spectators. Initially 1k of these have to be seats, with this raised to 2k by the end of a third consecutive season at that level. And I'm pretty sure that simply bolting seats onto terraces doesn't count - i.e. they have to be properly installed and under cover etc, with proper turmstiles, exits, toilets and catering facilities etc.
Meaning that since Harrogate Town gained promotion to the EFL for season 2021/22, they've needed to spend £3.4m upgrading their stadium and pitch to the required standard, while ground-sharing with Doncaster until the minimum work was completed:
https://www.thestadiumbusiness.com/2022/05/19/harrogate-town-planning-stadium-improvements/


"A much smaller country where the population is spread out", is it?

Scotalnd has just 400k more people than ROI, but is also more spread out, while NI has only 40% of the ROI's population, albeit with greater population density [insert own joke here].

Both easily maintain a footballing pyramid.

And football is the number one sport without a doubt in Scotland. They also have most of the population concentrated in the lowlands, it's much more urban country than Ireland.

I suppose the dutch do have a pyramid, with a large landing area right before the top where most clubs just soak up the sun rather than going up.

EalingGreen
31/07/2022, 6:51 PM
And football is the number one sport without a doubt in Scotland.True, but even with that obvious advantage, the game in Scotland is so MUCH biiger than in ROI, no matter how you measure it.

While NI has equal competition to ROI from GAA and Rugby, and arguably more from Hockey and Cricket, albeit that those last two team sports are pretty minor. (And we "lost" Derry City, a big club in a big-ish city).


They also have most of the population concentrated in the lowlands, it's much more urban country than Ireland.
Really?

The 7 eastern counties of Louth, Meath, Dublin, Kildare, Wickloe, Carlow and Wexford account for over 3.3m of ROI's population of 5m, while only covering a small proportion of its landmass. This must be at least as concentrated as the Scottish Lowlands, and rather more than the Central belt, which I'd say is the Scots equivalent.



I suppose the dutch do have a pyramid, with a large landing area right before the top where most clubs just soak up the sun rather than going up.
Maybe, but the point is that those clubs who do want more than just to sunbathe have a structure which allows them to do just that.

Meanwhile, Dutch football was wholly amateur until 1954, when the Eredivisie was formed, itself mostly semi-pro to start with. Which considering they were winning European Cups by the mid-70's, shows just how quickly they progressed..

El-Pietro
31/07/2022, 7:09 PM
Qqqq1q1

culloty82
31/07/2022, 8:02 PM
A commentary on the Greenlandic pyramid?

nigel-harps1954
01/08/2022, 9:07 PM
Qqqq1q1

A fair point. Makes you think.

EalingGreen
02/08/2022, 3:28 PM
A commentary on the Greenlandic pyramid?
Uber-nerd that I am, your witty comment caused me to google Icelandic* football.

Seems that they have a 4 tier pyramid, each tier consisting of 12 teams, with full P&R between them.

Beneath that there is also a 5th tier, currently consisting of four divisions, one of 6 teams but the others of 8 teams each. And although those 30 clubs must all be amateur and regionalised etc, nonetheless they still have two promotion places to the 4th tier, determined by play-offs:
http://www.league321.com/iceland-football-current-league-tables.html


* - Not even I am nerdy enough to investigate Greenlandic footy :D

NeverFeltBetter
02/08/2022, 4:03 PM
Greenlandic football is pretty interesting, Steve Menary's Outcasts had a chapter on it. There's about 14 sides, they do some very basic qualification rounds on a regional basis, then the best five do a round robin over the course of a week or so in a centralised location, because of how remote the settlements are and how expensive travel is. I vaguely recall that the tournament had a surprisingly big sponsor in Coca Cola or some other big name fizzy brand because Greenland was one of the few places in the world where they had no penetration. You'd think the best team would get to travel to the Danish Cup, or maybe that's a matter of national sovereignty or something.

Kiki Balboa
19/08/2022, 12:51 PM
https://westernpeople.ie/2022/08/18/breaking-mayo-club-approved-for-e2-8m-grant-for-development-of-facilities/

I wonder if this is an indicator of some kind of move for Westport.... If Westport are not trying to move to LOI, but another Mayo team is, this looks like a misuse of public money.

EatYerGreens
19/08/2022, 2:24 PM
https://westernpeople.ie/2022/08/18/breaking-mayo-club-approved-for-e2-8m-grant-for-development-of-facilities/

I wonder if this is an indicator of some kind of move for Westport.... If Westport are not trying to move to LOI, but another Mayo team is, this looks like a misuse of public money.

Sounds like it's community facilities primarily (though I'm not sure what an 'international-sized 4G astro pitch' is). If it was to create a stand etc then I'd be inclined to think it was with an eye on senior football.

Also - I wonder if those contributing to the Immigrant Investor Fund get a say in where and how it's spent ?

Philosophizer
19/08/2022, 2:37 PM
Crikey that's a lot of moolah for facilities.

Nesta99
19/08/2022, 3:40 PM
Well that's a fund I wouldnt have thought of for clubs to apply to! It helps flag up if clubs are not trying to get a piece of whats on offer. Politicians tend to know whats on the go and claim credit for an allocation - I will be p!ssed off if Louth GAA, clubs or county get a wedge.

Kiki Balboa
19/08/2022, 4:35 PM
I find this a bit mad to be honest, handing out that kind of money to one junior club. They are getting a new gym and a new clubhouse, and dont have to share it with any other sport. Such a complete inefficient use of funds. As far as I can tell, Mayo LOI Underage is based out of Castlebar, and won't be involved in this (could be wrong).

It really stinks to high heavens when you read into it. It comes from the Department of Justice, and for a way for people to 'buy' residency in Ireland.

https://www.irishimmigration.ie/coming-to-live-in-ireland/i-want-to-invest-in-ireland/



"2.8 million and we're not sending any of it back. Hopefully we'll have our facilities in the next three years and I might be here myself to open it" - so declares Deputy Michael Ring.

Very slimey statement to top it off. It would be great if Westport Utd used it to develop into a top club in the west, but this is just a senior Fine Gael politician throwing money around to buy votes.

nigel-harps1954
19/08/2022, 8:00 PM
If there's to be a representative Mayo side in the LOI in the coming years, investing into facilities there to cater to more than one area is a smart move. If you had senior team playing out of Milebush Park in Castlebar and underage sides in Westport, with the odd senior friendly there too, it would be a great move for them, and a great way to include more areas of the county in their side.

Otherwise, it's fantastic to see more grassroots sides improve on their facilities. For too long we'd have seen this sort of money going towards GAA clubs, so it's nice to see grassroots football getting a slice of the cake too.

legendz
20/08/2022, 5:04 AM
"2.8 million and we're not sending any of it back. Hopefully we'll have our facilities in the next three years and I might be here myself to open it" - so declares Deputy Michael Ring.

Very slimey statement to top it off. It would be great if Westport Utd used it to develop into a top club in the west, but this is just a senior Fine Gael politician throwing money around to buy votes.The Healy-Rae's better deliver for Kerry FC! Michael Ring has set the standard.

Shinkicker
22/08/2022, 6:35 AM
Uber-nerd that I am, your witty comment caused me to google Icelandic* football.

Seems that they have a 4 tier pyramid, each tier consisting of 12 teams, with full P&R between them.

Beneath that there is also a 5th tier, currently consisting of four divisions, one of 6 teams but the others of 8 teams each. And although those 30 clubs must all be amateur and regionalised etc, nonetheless they still have two promotion places to the 4th tier, determined by play-offs:
http://www.league321.com/iceland-football-current-league-tables.html



* - Not even I am nerdy enough to investigate Greenlandic footy :D
A friend of mine who worked for the IFA and got a trip out there for some reason and he told me Icelandic football had a major overhaul and restructure about 15 years ago and now all coaches get paid even at amateur level and down to kids. I believe the pay is structured. Icelandic FA put huge resources into grass roots football as well as coaching they promote diet and wellbeing as well as other social skills. About 5 years after the restructure their National team got to the semi final of the Euros. In saying that we don't hear much about them now

Philosophizer
22/08/2022, 9:37 AM
A friend of mine who worked for the IFA and got a trip out there for some reason and he told me Icelandic football had a major overhaul and restructure about 15 years ago and now all coaches get paid even at amateur level and down to kids. I believe the pay is structured. Icelandic FA put huge resources into grass roots football as well as coaching they promote diet and wellbeing as well as other social skills. About 5 years after the restructure their National team got to the semi final of the Euros. In saying that we don't hear much about them now
The guardian did a good article and covered it back in 2016.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/jun/08/iceland-stunning-rise-euro-2016-gylfi-sigurdsson-lars-lagerback
Basically, Iceland poured tonnes of money into football, but in typical Nordic style they did it in a very sensible way through coaches and facilities. Every school has a perfect astro built beside it, and every town and village in the country had an I door astro hall and loads of full time coaches.

EatYerGreens
22/08/2022, 12:43 PM
The guardian did a good article and covered it back in 2016.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/jun/08/iceland-stunning-rise-euro-2016-gylfi-sigurdsson-lars-lagerback
Basically, Iceland poured tonnes of money into football, but in typical Nordic style they did it in a very sensible way through coaches and facilities. Every school has a perfect astro built beside it, and every town and village in the country had an I door astro hall and loads of full time coaches.

They briefly became the poster boys of Europe for how to develop football success. Even England looked at their model - which was fairly laughable given that the 2 countries could not be more different when it comes to the sport. There's always something you can learn from somewhere else, but England shouldn't need to be picking up tips from a frozen country with a population smaller than Nottingham.

A small country like Iceland will be able to achieve only fleeting moments of success, which is exactly what has transpired. As stated, ni-one talks about them any more now that their brief window of success has passed. The attention deficit approach of orgs like the English FA constantly chasing around after 'the next big thing' is fairly comical really.

EalingGreen
22/08/2022, 4:38 PM
They briefly became the poster boys of Europe for how to develop football success. Even England looked at their model - which was fairly laughable given that the 2 countries could not be more different when it comes to the sport. There's always something you can learn from somewhere else, but England shouldn't need to be picking up tips from a frozen country with a population smaller than Nottingham....

... The attention deficit approach of orgs like the English FA constantly chasing around after 'the next big thing' is fairly comical really.

Yet if they weren't receptive to new ideas, even from somewhere like Little Iceland, then they'd get accused of being Little Englanders.



A small country like Iceland will be able to achieve only fleeting moments of success, which is exactly what has transpired. As stated, ni-one talks about them any more now that their brief window of success has passed.
When Iceland went on their great adventure 10 or 15 years ago, they took two, even three steps forward.

Meaning that if they've since fallen back a step or two, they're still ahead of where they had been.

In English club terms, its a bit like a National League side getting promoted to the Championship for a couple of seasons, before dropping down to League One or League Two.

Apart from which, you're only looking at half the picture of Iceland's footballing transformation - their womens' team qualified for the Euro Finals this summer, where they performed creditably to achieve 3 draws and finish ahead of Italy in their group.

Nesta99
22/08/2022, 9:42 PM
Iceland is a bit of a strange one were league spectator facilities have been developed beyond support base levels. Behind that though are excellent multisport facilities and plenty of capacity for youth development irrespective of weather. Publicly financed also and it did show some value when the fortunes of the international side had a big upturn though it was also having a number of decent players just happening to be coming through at the same stage of development. Most of their top players were abroad but the squad also had home based players.

culloty82
26/08/2022, 2:50 PM
Just seen in Dan McDonnell's newsletter that Monaghan United have withdrawn from the Ulster Senior League, which doesn't suggest they would be likely third-tier candidates?

nigel-harps1954
26/08/2022, 3:33 PM
Just seen in Dan McDonnell's newsletter that Monaghan United have withdrawn from the Ulster Senior League, which doesn't suggest they would be likely third-tier candidates?

It's more likely they're walking from the shambles that is the Ulster Senior League to prepare for 2024.

legendz
26/08/2022, 4:38 PM
It's more likely they're walking from the shambles that is the Ulster Senior League to prepare for 2024.
Should Monaghan be part of the youth leagues if they are preparing for a return? We should be getting to a stage where any potential newcomer are backing up their application with youth teams integrated into the underage league structure.

joey B
26/08/2022, 4:49 PM
It's more likely they're walking from the shambles that is the Ulster Senior League to prepare for 2024.

Is the USL on the way out Nigel? Seen Jazza McLaughlin’s article the last day and he doesn’t sound confident….

nigel-harps1954
26/08/2022, 6:08 PM
Is the USL on the way out Nigel? Seen Jazza McLaughlin’s article the last day and he doesn’t sound confident….

Can't really see the Donegal League and Inishowen Leagues working together to create a top tier Intermediate Division between them as he suggests doing. Otherwise nobody wants to enter the USL while the existing clubs in there can afford to pay their players.

culloty82
26/08/2022, 6:37 PM
Should Monaghan be part of the youth leagues if they are preparing for a return? We should be getting to a stage where any potential newcomer are backing up their application with youth teams integrated into the underage league structure.

Would imagine many of their players would be currently involved with the Cavan-Monaghan squad, so going it alone wouldn't be much of a wrench or a culture shock.

joey B
26/08/2022, 9:00 PM
Can't really see the Donegal League and Inishowen Leagues working together to create a top tier Intermediate Division between them as he suggests doing. Otherwise nobody wants to enter the USL while the existing clubs in there can afford to pay their players.

3 different entities in 1 county pulling in different directions,a good metaphor for football this country….

legendz
31/08/2022, 7:23 PM
The Premier Division had 12 teams for many years, with 10 in the First Division. There was a switch for a few years with 10 in the Premier and 12 in the First.
Cork, Galway and Waterford would make a case for the Premier expanding to 12, if new clubs can make the step up to the First Division.
5 step expansion route for the league:
1) PD 10, FD 10
2) PD 10, FD 11
3) PD 10, FD 12
4) PD 12, FD 11
5) PD 12, FD 12

EatYerGreens
01/09/2022, 2:17 PM
The Premier Division had 12 teams for many years, with 10 in the First Division. There was a switch for a few years with 10 in the Premier and 12 in the First.
Cork, Galway and Waterford would make a case for the Premier expanding to 12, if new clubs can make the step up to the First Division.
5 step expansion route for the league:
1) PD 10, FD 10
2) PD 10, FD 11
3) PD 10, FD 12
4) PD 12, FD 11
5) PD 12, FD 12

I'm personally in favour of a 12 team PD. But there aren't 3 clubs looking to join the FD currently - just one. And there doesn't seem to be much of a queue forming behind Kerry either.

Realistically we're stuck withb 10 / 10 until the Third Division arises (assuming it does) and acts as a conduit for future potential expansion of the top tier(s).

sbgawa
01/09/2022, 2:28 PM
The problem with a 12 team division is you end up with 33 games instead of 36........ 15 or 16 home matches instead of 18 and 3 matches against your closest rivals (which tends to generate the biggest crowds) instead of the current 4.
Admittedly you could re arrange the league with a top half bottom half split etc etc to ensure some of the above but i favour the 10 myself.
Particularly as it means there are very few meaningless matches with 1 to 4 for the European places it normally means at least 6 teams dreaming of qualifying and 2 or 3 trying to avoid relegation/relegation play offs
Maybe when the third division comes in and there is a big overall shake up things might change.

culloty82
01/09/2022, 3:11 PM
An interesting aspect of the current 10/9 split is that the concentration of teams, combined with the longer season, has resulted in multiple Dublin derbies in the Premier, along with many Munster rivalries in the First, even if Cork's overdue return will affect that somewhat (let no Kerry chickens be counted yet!).

Nesta99
01/09/2022, 3:30 PM
An interesting aspect of the current 10/9 split is that the concentration of teams, combined with the longer season, has resulted in multiple Dublin derbies in the Premier, along with many Munster rivalries in the First, even if Cork's overdue return will affect that somewhat (let no Kerry chickens be counted yet!).

Sure these boyos would pull a few strokes!

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTNGXET2HqKtst1mcMBRUS1Fc07TJZEc Pln3zMFtrI&s

legendz
01/09/2022, 4:51 PM
I'm personally in favour of a 12 team PD. But there aren't 3 clubs looking to join the FD currently - just one. And there doesn't seem to be much of a queue forming behind Kerry either.

Realistically we're stuck withb 10 / 10 until the Third Division arises (assuming it does) and acts as a conduit for future potential expansion of the top tier(s).
Agreed. PD of 12 teams and FD of 12 teams is a few years away from being an option. Kildare, Mayo, Carlow Kilkenny and Cavan Monaghan, Monaghan United really as advised by the Harps correspondent, can follow Kerry FC's progress.
If there's a reluctance by LoI clubs to field teams in a third tier, expansion of the LoI from 20 to 24 should be an option, if viable.

The problem with a 12 team division is you end up with 33 games instead of 36........ 15 or 16 home matches instead of 18 and 3 matches against your closest rivals (which tends to generate the biggest crowds) instead of the current 4.
Admittedly you could re arrange the league with a top half bottom half split etc etc to ensure some of the above but i favour the 10 myself.
Particularly as it means there are very few meaningless matches with 1 to 4 for the European places it normally means at least 6 teams dreaming of qualifying and 2 or 3 trying to avoid relegation/relegation play offs
Maybe when the third division comes in and there is a big overall shake up things might change.33 is not ideal but sometimes we have to cut out cloth with what's available.
Usually with 33 games, they reverse the fixtures in the following year so that it balances out over a 2 year cycle.
A variant is that the first series of 11 matches is determined by the league placings of the previous year. The top 6 can start the season with 6/11 home games. The remaining 6 teams with 5/11 home games. Series 2 & 3 then can the regular home and away format over 22 games.
Going from 36 to 33 games doesn't affect weekend fixtures. It reduces the midweek games.