Third Tier Talk - A Championship Mk II

[Shinkicker]

Strabane would be in the 3rd tier of the Irish League if they had a ground up to scratch, as they won their league a few years ago. The ground has since been improved by the council to the level that would see them promoted. Strabane Athletic are also planning their own stadium too, with facilities to embed them in the community.

Of all the teams you listed there, the only ones that would credibly have any impact upon players and support in and for a Strabane team would be Derry, Dergview and Harps. What local competition to Harps are you saying has come and failed ?
You say Strabane won their league a few years ago. That wont get you up this year. If you wish to join the third tier you must put your application in a the beginning of the season possibly and most likely with about 5 others from the amateur league, mid ulster league, ballymena provincial league and others. Your ground must be up to scratch at the time of applying and if all applications win their respective leagues it's a playoff situation. At present the seven team league is not strong enough and God forbid if Strabane were to finish 5th of seven... Say no more. In Donegal there have been small meteoric rises from Fanad, cockhill and others who knew they couldn't take the plunge into higher level football most likely for financial reasons, therefore allowing Harps to trundle on. I don't think Harps will pull support from Strabane because if they did who would look after the dog!!

[EatYerGreens]

When did Inishowen steal Fanad:D??

Hah ! ;) My bad - apologies. I meant Malin.

[legendz]

That was compulsary for top tier sides too, it was one of the reasons used to do away with it. I'm open to correction but I think Limerick and UCD were the only First Division sides to ever enter.
I'm open to correction. I think Finn Harps and Shelbourne also fielded an A team while in the First Division. I was ranting about it for years!! If First Division clubs were willing to field an A team without an obligation to do so, the A Championship should have been restructured just for teams who wanted to be in it.

I would imagine all Premier League teams will be interested in having a team. Would the finanances be so different from running an under-age LOI team?

A big problem with the 'A' Championship was the timing, right after the economic crash when a lot of money suddenly left from the country, plus the idea wasnt so fully formed at the time.

The league is more stable now. I think too the competition will also have a lot more legitimacy in it being an offical 'Tier' of the League, which suggests its not going to disappear after it started. Plus the overall repuatuion of the league has increased, and with access to underage- LOI leagues (and thus the best youth players), it should be more attractive for regional leagues.

You could even get creative with the format to keep costs down or how the teams are formed (like if Galway do not fully want to have a team in it, but a Mayo team do, they could work together to give Galway United player games under a Mayo shirt).

Maybe I am being optimistic about it, but I think it is a great addition to the league, and I think a lot of teams will be interested in joining. It should be a good stepping stone for new clubs (wherever they may come from) to becoming a senior team.
I'm open for correction here as well. St. Pat's and Sligo Rovers were strongly against the A Championship. It was mandatory for Premier Division clubs to enter an A team. Some did so grudgingly and lobbied for it to be scrapped.
As mentioned above, if 4 First Division clubs saw merit in the A Championship, it should just have been optional.
The First Division got by with 8 teams for a few years. Not ideal but if at least 8 teams can agree to join an Intermediary League, the third tier league can get off the ground.

[sbgawa]

I think you would have a lot more than just Rovers and Derry entering teams. All clubs have a team ready for the third tier this year's under 19s and with another year of development potentialy some players for the first team. The connection is strong with many players playing underage since 14 fir the club. .

[sbgawa]

Relegation from the first division would make the first division better imo. To easy for the likes of athlone to just stagger on as things stand. A relegation and subsequent promotion battle might reinvigorate them.

[legendz]

I think you would have a lot more than just Rovers and Derry entering teams. All clubs have a team ready for the third tier this year's under 19s and with another year of development potentialy some players for the first team. The connection is strong with many players playing underage since 14 fir the club. .Not all clubs are as progressive to see the merit in an U23/B team. Sligo and Pat's would be in the unlikely to join group. It's fair enough though. It should be optional.


Relegation from the first division would make the first division better imo. To easy for the likes of athlone to just stagger on as things stand. A relegation and subsequent promotion battle might reinvigorate them.In theory, yes! The threat of possible relegation should help set a higher standard at the lower end of the First Division.
If a number of clubs in a 3rd Tier were meeting the First Division criteria, consideration would have to given to an expansion of the First Division, were such a scenario to occur.

[2 Year Contract]

Not all clubs are as progressive to see the merit in an U23/B team. Sligo and Pat's would be in the unlikely to join group.

What gives you that impression? I’m not sure re:Sligo, but Pats have a strong case for being one of the best run academies in the country with arguably the best track record of producing players in recent years. Also around the time of the controversy over the whole Rovers II coming back into the first division thing, it was mentioned in the national sports media at the time that Dundalk and Pats were among the other clubs that had an interest in putting a B/II team out in future seasons also. Obviously with the change of ownership at Dundalk their stance may have changed as I’d say Peak 6 saw a reserve team as the potential to give game time to their stockpile of foreign imports as they appeared to not give a toss about their youth setup. From Pat's end of things however I can’t imagine there’s been a change of thinking in the last 2 or so years.

EDIT: I’ve just seen your other post about Pats and Sligo being against the A championship. That was 11 years ago though and before the underage leagues were set up as they are now and certainly from a Pats point of view the academy is hugely important to the club now compared to back then when it was almost non existent for most clubs so yeah as mentioned above, I could see Pats entering a team if offered the chance.

[pineapple stu]

UCD are unlikely to field an U23 team but you'd hardly call them unprogressive in academy terms.

The only problem with introducing relegation from the second tier is that you're not actually solving the problem; you're just shifting the problem down a level. The issue Tralee had when they were kicked out of the LoI (as effectively happened) and had nowhere to be relegated to is still there, and is still likely to cause clubs to be wary of joining the LoI.

[legendz]

UCD are unlikely to field an U23 team but you'd hardly call them unprogressive in academy terms.

The only problem with introducing relegation from the second tier is that you're not actually solving the problem; you're just shifting the problem down a level. The issue Tralee had when they were kicked out of the LoI (as effectively happened) and had nowhere to be relegated to is still there, and is still likely to cause clubs to be wary of joining the LoI.
Really? I thought UCD embraced the A Championship. They even won 2 titles.
The A Championship gave Cobh the breathing space to get their house some way in order.
A Monaghan or a Kildare County might have benefitted from being able to return to the A Championship.
A problem might be moved down a level but it's actually an appropriate level to rebuild if needed.

[pineapple stu]

Is an U23 team really needed given our team now is entirely college students anyway?

I think even just dropping clubs like Monaghan or Kildare into a third tier is the wrong way to go about developing them. The lack of a pyramid has problems in so many ways. Are the strongest clubs being promoted? Are they missing out on the buzz of a promotion campaign to lead them into the first season at a new level? What happens if you want to drop a level down from the third tier? Is there an issue with trickle-down development of facilities (see the recent discussion on how the pyramid in England has strengthened the Conference no end in the last couple of decades)

[Kiki Balboa]

The problem with the relegation from the First Division is that a team might finish near the bottom of the Third Tier, but only 'B' Teams finish ahead of them. Then they get a chance for promotion, despite being a weaker Third Tier team. That has no sporting merit, or good for the First Division (or the teams in the Third Tier who might get promoted too fast for their development). So how implementing a consistent promotion/ relegation will be a hard issue to solve, especially in the early years when you would expect LOI 'B' teams to be stronger.


Maybe I am way too positive about it, but I feel there is a directional change in Irish Football. I think (more) junior and intermediate teams are also looking for changes in the national structures, which a more integrated league system gives. I would be confident that after 5 years or so, another division would be added or that the provincial leagues would join under the Third Tier (which is the goal of the current FAI).

Other things like rules will have to be looked at. Are the squads going to be set during Transfer windows (no movement between senior and b squad), or is there going to allowence for players. Dfferent countries handle it in different ways.

[pineapple stu]

Maybe I am way too positive about it, but I feel there is a directional change in Irish Football.
I think that's fair alright. I think a third tier as mooted just extends the bad system we have at present rather than does anything to address the issues, but if it's a step towards proper joined-up thinking, then it's to be welcomed for sure.

[sadloserkid]

Kildare could have dropped into the A Championship if they'd been so inclined, no? I really enjoyed it as a competition but let's not pretend it was a silver bullet. It's long enough ago now too that it's of negligible relevance to the freshly mooted Tier 3. Watching Limerick in places like Tullamore and whatever little village Carlow played in (Balon?) was fun though.

Show of hands lads, do we think we'll actually have a Tier 3 next season? I'd be leaning toward 'no' unfortunately.

[legendz]

Is an U23 team really needed given our team now is entirely college students anyway?

I think even just dropping clubs like Monaghan or Kildare into a third tier is the wrong way to go about developing them. The lack of a pyramid has problems in so many ways. Are the strongest clubs being promoted? Are they missing out on the buzz of a promotion campaign to lead them into the first season at a new level? What happens if you want to drop a level down from the third tier? Is there an issue with trickle-down development of facilities (see the recent discussion on how the pyramid in England has strengthened the Conference no end in the last couple of decades)If UCD don't need an U23 team, that's fair enough if that's where they are.
A pyramid sounds great but does it lead to a repeat of the 3 clubs in Galway situation?
The underage leagues have sensibly accepted entrants from non LoI areas. Applying a similar logic to a third tier is an Irish solution to an Irish problem.
Before Kildare's final season, they wanted to step down to the A Championship. They were encouraged to stay in the First Division. A year later, they were gone.


The problem with the relegation from the First Division is that a team might finish near the bottom of the Third Tier, but only 'B' Teams finish ahead of them. Then they get a chance for promotion, despite being a weaker Third Tier team. That has no sporting merit, or good for the First Division (or the teams in the Third Tier who might get promoted too fast for their development). So how implementing a consistent promotion/ relegation will be a hard issue to solve, especially in the early years when you would expect LOI 'B' teams to be stronger.


Maybe I am way too positive about it, but I feel there is a directional change in Irish Football. I think (more) junior and intermediate teams are also looking for changes in the national structures, which a more integrated league system gives. I would be confident that after 5 years or so, another division would be added or that the provincial leagues would join under the Third Tier (which is the goal of the current FAI).

Other things like rules will have to be looked at. Are the squads going to be set during Transfer windows (no movement between senior and b squad), or is there going to allowence for players. Dfferent countries handle it in different ways.Did A Championship first teams have to finish in the top 3 to qualify for the promotion playoff? The A Championship did have a promotion mechanism. Something similar to that is one possible solution.


Kildare could have dropped into the A Championship if they'd been so inclined, no? I really enjoyed it as a competition but let's not pretend it was a silver bullet. It's long enough ago now too that it's of negligible relevance to the freshly mooted Tier 3. Watching Limerick in places like Tullamore and whatever little village Carlow played in (Balon?) was fun though.

Show of hands lads, do we think we'll actually have a Tier 3 next season? I'd be leaning toward 'no' unfortunately. You are right. It is not a silver bullet. It is however a level that can bridge the gap from U19 to senior level. If clubs can build and attain a First Division licence, similar-ish to the A Championship promotion mechanism, let play-off and see if they are good enough.

[pineapple stu]

A pyramid sounds great but does it lead to a repeat of the 3 clubs in Galway situation?
The lack of a pyramid caused the three Galway club situation in the first place. Salthill or Mervue finished bottom of the First every year but every year there was no relegation.



Show of hands lads, do we think we'll actually have a Tier 3 next season? I'd be leaning toward 'no' unfortunately.
I don't see how it's remotely possible at this stage, unless it's almost all B teams (which would defeat the point)

The only interested side so far seem likely to skip into the First Division

[legendz]

The lack of a pyramid caused the three Galway club situation in the first place. Salthill or Mervue finished bottom of the First every year but every year there was no relegation. Allowing clubs from an area that already had a LoI club caused the problem too. The youth leagues have learned from that so far.



I don't see how it's remotely possible at this stage, unless it's almost all B teams (which would defeat the point)

The only interested side so far seem likely to skip into the First Division
Cavan/Monaghan FC, Klub Kildare FC and Carlow Kilkenny FC are at U17 level. They are 2 to 3 years away from making a decision on whether they want to step up to senior or remain as they are.
A third tier shouldn't necessarily be dependent on new entities joining. If enough LoI clubs want a reserve league, it should be reason enough. 8 teams is the minimum to get up and running.

[pineapple stu]

Allowing clubs from an area that already had a LoI club caused the problem too.
Yep - another argument in favour of a proper pyramid.

Would Salthill/Mervue have been promoted in the first place if they'd have to do it on the pitch rather than asking nicely?

[sadloserkid]

There's two teams from Limerick playing underage at the moment. A special case perhaps but probably one more than is strictly needed for the area.

[legendz]

Yep - another argument in favour of a proper pyramid.

Would Salthill/Mervue have been promoted in the first place if they'd have to do it on the pitch rather than asking nicely?Are any senior league clubs seeking to join the League of Ireland?


There's two teams from Limerick playing underage at the moment. A special case perhaps but probably one more than is strictly needed for the area.A special case alright. Is Pat O'Sullivan still determined to get Limerick FC back into the league and is it a realistic possibility?

[pineapple stu]

Are any senior league clubs seeking to join the League of Ireland?
Not sure what your point is?

Clubs shouldn't ask to join the LoI. They should be striving to do so on the pitch. Like in pretty much every other league in Europe.

[legendz]

Not sure what your point is?

Clubs shouldn't ask to join the LoI. They should be striving to do so on the pitch. Like in pretty much every other league in Europe.
Is there a successful club in the senior leagues who want to join the League of Ireland?

[sbgawa]

Is there a successful club in the senior leagues who want to join the League of Ireland?

St Francis applied to join the first division recently.
Bluebell have been mooted also.
Id imagine St Kevins might throw their hat in the ring so they can ring fence their kids rather than sharing compo with bohs.
All Dublin however which isn't ideal. I dont have much expertise outside the pale

[Kiki Balboa]

St Francis applied to join the first division recently.
Bluebell have been mooted also.
Id imagine St Kevins might throw their hat in the ring so they can ring fence their kids rather than sharing compo with bohs.
All Dublin however which isn't ideal. I dont have much expertise outside the pale

Bluebell and St. Francis is West-Dublin right? Peamount in the womens too. Is there a feeling that the area of the city/county is not represented? Like do people in Blanchardstown is big population center. Do they have a team?

I also would guess St. Kevins Boys too as they have a huge reputation and set up (that might really hurt Bohs as a club though).

[sadloserkid]

A special case alright. Is Pat O'Sullivan still determined to get Limerick FC back into the league and is it a realistic possibility?

My feeling is that the answer to both those questions is a fairly emphatic no but my finger is a very long way from the proverbial pulse.

[culloty82]

The Welsh pyramid seems a good model to emulate, minimising expense but maximises local derbies through regionalisation below the Premier:

https://i.imgur.com/MjazSti_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

[EatYerGreens]

Does anyone else whince everytime they see the spellng of 'Klub' Kildare ? :o

[legendz]

St Francis applied to join the first division recently.
Bluebell have been mooted also.
Id imagine St Kevins might throw their hat in the ring so they can ring fence their kids rather than sharing compo with bohs.
All Dublin however which isn't ideal. I dont have much expertise outside the paleAre there enough clubs in Dublin already? Bohs, Shels, Pat's and Rovers, UCD also. Not to be dividing the potential supporter base any further.
The only exception and case to make is if Fingal County and Dún Laoghaire–Rathdown County see the merit in a team.
Sporting Fingal of course have come and gone. Is Bray now the representative of Dún Laoghaire–Rathdown after the merger with Cabinteely?

[WeAreRovers]

UCD are the DLR LOI club.

[sbgawa]

Does anyone else whince everytime they see the spellng of 'Klub' Kildare ? :o

Yes it definitely grinds my gears

[legendz]

The Welsh pyramid seems a good model to emulate, minimising expense but maximises local derbies through regionalisation below the Premier:

https://i.imgur.com/MjazSti_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=mediumI like the ideal of a pyramid structure. I just don't see it as realistic. Ruud Dokter made the valid point that a working structure for one country doesn't necessarily work for another.
The Munster Senior League is effectively a Cork Senior League. I don't think any of the other district leagues in Munster could trust a partnership with them. You'd nearly have to have a separate senior league for the rest of Munster.
Is the Leinster League linked to all the district leagues?
Connaught is without a senior league? Ulster has a bit of a senior league.
It'll be difficult to get all these components rowing in the same direction. The internal politics has some big fish in a small pond, who will not budge and will be obstructive to suit their own interests.
A third tier can circumvent that political headache. If a region has no LoI representation, let them join. If a club is going well on the park and they are not deemed as likely to have a negative impact on an existing LoI club, let them join as well if they want.
In the old A Championship, I think teams had to finish in the top 3 to get into the promotion playoff. Something similar for the third tier, if it ever becomes a reality, can set a playing standard to complement the licensing criteria.
The bottom of the First Division currently doesn't set a playing standard. If a third tier club can attain a First Division licence and they can beat the last team of the First Division in a play-off, let them up!

[pineapple stu]

Ruud Dokter pushed for a pyramid.

It works in pretty much every other country. We're the complete outliers here. This isn't a "some things work better in some places" issue. This is a "we're completely out of kilter with everyone else and suffering because of it" issue.

[legendz]

Ruud Dokter pushed for a pyramid.

It works in pretty much every other country. We're the complete outliers here. This isn't a "some things work better in some places" issue. This is a "we're completely out of kilter with everyone else and suffering because of it" issue.He wasn't taking his own advice!

[pineapple stu]

He wasn't able to suddenly magic up a pyramid because there's too many vested interests happy with the way things are.

Here (https://www.thecoachdiary.com/the-real-problem-with-irish-football-migueldelaney/) is is quite literally saying "I’m here because I’ve come from a country with a big history in youth development. I’m not here to copy that system but I’m here to instil some principles of development, which are all over the world the same… you need to have a pyramid structure, one way or another."

[legendz]

He wasn't able to suddenly magic up a pyramid because there's too many vested interests happy with the way things are.

Here (https://www.thecoachdiary.com/the-real-problem-with-irish-football-migueldelaney/) is is quite literally saying "I’m here because I’ve come from a country with a big history in youth development. I’m not here to copy that system but I’m here to instil some principles of development, which are all over the world the same… you need to have a pyramid structure, one way or another."With the internal politics around senior leagues and district leagues, why bother with the headache? The third tier circumvents the headache.
I like the ideal of every county having League of Ireland representation. I accept that this might be a GAA influenced mindset. The reality then is that cross county partnerships is the way to go in some regions.
Cavan Monaghan and Carlow Kilkenny are sensible partnerships looking beyond the county boundaries. Laois Offaly might do something similar in time. Sligo Rovers can draw on the Leitrim catchment area? Clare and North Tipperary are best linked to Treaty? South Tipperary then with Waterford?
I think this only leaves Meath and Roscommon. They can either follow the path of Kerry and Mayo or be content to be the catchment area for LoI clubs in neighbouring counties.

[pineapple stu]

The third tier doesn't circumvent the headache. It just pushes it down a tier, but it's still very much there.

Why bother with the headache? Because it's what we need for clubs to develop and advance.

[EatYerGreens]

With the internal politics around senior leagues and district leagues, why bother with the headache? The third tier circumvents the headache.
I like the ideal of every county having League of Ireland representation. I accept that this might be a GAA influenced mindset. The reality then is that cross county partnerships is the way to go in some regions.
Cavan Monaghan and Carlow Kilkenny are sensible partnerships looking beyond the county boundaries. Laois Offaly might do something similar in time. Sligo Rovers can draw on the Leitrim catchment area? Clare and North Tipperary are best linked to Treaty? South Tipperary then with Waterford?
I think this only leaves Meath and Roscommon. They can either follow the path of Kerry and Mayo or be content to be the catchment area for LoI clubs in neighbouring counties.

Honestly - the idea that every county should have an LOI club is just daft. Kildare has seven times the population of Leitrim. Why should each have an LOI club ? Just because ? Especially when there are no established clubs there to build one around. Tipperary has 4 times the population of Longford, yet couldn't sustain an LOI club for longer than a few seasons when it tried. And some counties have big geographical splits - e.g. like north and south Roscommon, north and south Tipperary, south and north-west Derry, north and south Down, north and south Leitrim etc. They're like 2 different worlds that just happen to inhabit the same county, but in reality have more to do with neighbouring counties than with the rest of their own county. People in places like Boyle in North Roscommon would tend towards Sligo Rovers. Anyone in the south of the county who is interested in LOI has Athlone. Folk in North Leitrim have Sligo Rovers.

Football is a predominantly urban sport. The unit around which to aspire to have sustainable club sshould therefore be significant towns and cities. But again, you can't just magic them up - they need to be developed out of existing clubs and structures. Especially in somewhere like Ireland where there are other sports and factors to take into consideration re the potential viability of senior football clubs.

[Kiki Balboa]

Honestly - the idea that every county should have an LOI club is just daft. Kildare has seven times the population of Leitrim. Why should each have an LOI club ? Just because ? Especially when there are no established clubs there to build one around. Tipperary has 4 times the population of Longford, yet couldn't sustain an LOI club for longer than a few seasons when it tried. And some counties have big geographical splits - e.g. like north and south Roscommon, north and south Tipperary, south and north-west Derry, north and south Down, north and south Leitrim etc. They're like 2 different worlds that just happen to inhabit the same county, but in reality have more to do with neighbouring counties than with the rest of their own county. People in places like Boyle in North Roscommon would tend towards Sligo Rovers. Anyone in the south of the county who is interested in LOI has Athlone. Folk in North Leitrim have Sligo Rovers.

Football is a predominantly urban sport. The unit around which to aspire to have sustainable club sshould therefore be significant towns and cities. But again - you can't just magic them up - they need to be developed out of existing clubs and structures. Especially in somewhere like Ireland where there are other sports and factors to take into consideration re the potential viability of senior football clubs. .

On the flipside, there might be teams being held back because the jump from local junior league to the LOI First Division is just too big. So clubs who could become LOI teams become stagnant in there local leagues, as they cant develop any further, without a huge risk of trying to jump to Senior Football. Having a pyramid structure (which the Third Tier would be the first step to implement) would allow for these clubs to grow, and those soccer niches to be promoted.

Also, a big issue for these regional teams (which should be talked about too) is players and player standards. Any decent player would be snapped up by a professional club, while in is unlikely a local area (in nearly any area of Ireland) on its own could provide players for a competitive team. Regional teams like Monaghan and Longford often got lads from Dublin to play as they are at the required standard.... but then local fans get annoyed the team is full of Dubs. So even if there is abig enough supporter base to support two close teams, like FC Carlow and Kilkenny City, maybe the lack of local players of a good enough quality would greatly hurt both teams.

So that is a problem any future team, how to balance competition, money, and local quality together.

[legendz]

The third tier doesn't circumvent the headache. It just pushes it down a tier, but it's still very much there.

Why bother with the headache? Because it's what we need for clubs to develop and advance.A third tier licence is far more achievable than a First Division licence. When a First Division club drops out, it can damage the LoI brand. A third tier that is a step out of the spotlight can have the space for teams to come and go more easily. An Irish solution for an Irish problem.

[pineapple stu]

"An Irish solution to an Irish problem" is a meaningless soundbite when the FAI's own head of Development is pointing out that literally everyone else does things a different way, and he really recommends we follow suit.

[legendz]

Honestly - the idea that every county should have an LOI club is just daft. Kildare has seven times the population of Leitrim. Why should each have an LOI club ? Just because ? Especially when there are no established clubs there to build one around. Tipperary has 4 times the population of Longford, yet couldn't sustain an LOI club for longer than a few seasons when it tried. And some counties have big geographical splits - e.g. like north and south Roscommon, north and south Tipperary, south and north-west Derry, north and south Down, north and south Leitrim etc. They're like 2 different worlds that just happen to inhabit the same county, but in reality have more to do with neighbouring counties than with the rest of their own county. People in places like Boyle in North Roscommon would tend towards Sligo Rovers. Anyone in the south of the county who is interested in LOI has Athlone. Folk in North Leitrim have Sligo Rovers.

Football is a predominantly urban sport. The unit around which to aspire to have sustainable club sshould therefore be significant towns and cities. But again, you can't just magic them up - they need to be developed out of existing clubs and structures. Especially in somewhere like Ireland where there are other sports and factors to take into consideration re the potential viability of senior football clubs.Once upon a time, Limerick changed their name to Limerick City and cut off the rest of the county?
For those of us with an ideal of county representation, I guess it is GAA influenced.
I do accept however that the football landscape is different. Every region is different too. There are clubs that represent a part of a city, clubs that represent a whole city/town and then there are some clubs that represent a broader region.
You are fully correct that you cannot magic up a club. Tralee Dynamos, Tullamore and Castlebar tried to develop in the A Championship and were then banished to the wilderness.
The Youth Leagues of Ireland are a game changer. The youth leagues are allowing non LoI entities to develop. These entities seem to have the acceptance of district clubs. If an existing club isn't willing to step up to senior level, the path is clear for a club to be formed for the region. It is an organic growth as opposed to trying to magic up a club.
If Kerry FC get into the league. When Mayo have players who are moving beyond U19 level, a Castlebar either steps up to senior or they might look at the Kerry FC model. Either route is feasible and both routes are practical. Kerry FC seems a sensible direction for Kerry. Castlebar might be a more sensible direction for Mayo. That'll be for the Mayo folk to decide.

[culloty82]

Both EatYerGreens and legendz have sensible points, in that some counties like Tipp, Clare, and Laois evidently have no interest or intention of pursuing senior status, giving the disinclination to enter the underage leagues, but it is the best platform for Kildare, Cavan/Monaghan and Carlow/Kilkenny to pursue future ambitions, assuming, like Kerry, they eventually want their own adult set-up for local players.

[nigel-harps1954]

Cavan/Monaghan underage setup is a total basket case, the whipping boys of the Northern section of the underage leagues, and will never become a senior setup.

[EatYerGreens]

Once upon a time, Limerick changed their name to Limerick City and cut off the rest of the county?

I don't buy this idea that adopting the name 'city' meant that a guillotine came down between the club and the rest of the county. Firstly - clubs like Limerick have always had support from outside their own town, and even outside the county. Longford Town hasn't cut itself off from the county. People in Leitrim and Roscommon seem to have no issue supporting a team called Sligo. Folk from Tyrone and Donegal go to Derry City games. And so on. Also - the 'County' name didn't exactly do wonders for Kildare's support levels. So this is just a flaweed theory IMO. Secondly - Limerick (or more correctly, Pat Grace) changed name to Limerick City because Limerick United got embroiled in a messy court case.


When Mayo have players who are moving beyond U19 level, a Castlebar either steps up to senior or they might look at the Kerry FC model. Either route is feasible and both routes are practical. Kerry FC seems a sensible direction for Kerry. Castlebar might be a more sensible direction for Mayo. That'll be for the Mayo folk to decide.

As a mnor aside, it is a tiny bit strange that there is no 'celtic' club in the LOI currently (I know there was one in Cork in the past). The north has a couple of 'Rangers' in its upper tiers, as you'd expect given where support for football in many towns there primarily comes from. I'm sure people from beyond Ireland would be surprised to hear there isn't a celtic playing somewhere in our senior game. So step up Castlebar :D

[Kiki Balboa]

I think it is wishful thinking that there is some kind of 'cheat code' that if a club is called County or City, it will automatically bring in fans.

I wouldn't write it off though completely. Its important to attach the club to somthing with cultural capital.

But it is important to note that soccer is not like any other sport in Ireland. Dublin City didnt work, Kildare County didnt work. There are other far more important aspects of running a club.

[sadloserkid]

I'm awaiting Louth County's arrival on the scene and the inevitable crushing of Dundalk and Drogheda that will follow as fans desert them in droves to worship at the feet of the new entity.

[EatYerGreens]

I think it is wishful thinking that there is some kind of 'cheat code' that if a club is called County or City, it will automatically bring in fans.

I wouldn't write it off though completely. Its important to attach the club to somthing with cultural capital.

But it is important to note that soccer is not like any other sport in Ireland. Dublin City didnt work, Kildare County didnt work. There are other far more important aspects of running a club.

It will go down as one of history's great losses that Irish Sea FC never got to prove that their's was the name that the barstooling fans have all been waiting for.

Although I prefer the 'Wild Atlantic Wallys FC'.

[legendz]

It will go down as one of history's great losses that Irish Sea FC never got to prove that their's was the name that the barstooling fans have all been waiting for.

Although I prefer the 'Wild Atlantic Wallys FC'.
Dublin Dons never got their opportunity either! 😉

[EatYerGreens]

Dublin Dons never got their opportunity either! 

They could have merged with Irish Sea FC. To create the Dublin Don Quays....

[legendz]

They could have merged with Irish Sea FC. To create the Dublin Don Quays.... Very appropriate!! 🤣

[Nesta99]

I'm awaiting Louth County's arrival on the scene and the inevitable crushing of Dundalk and Drogheda that will follow as fans desert them in droves to worship at the feet of the new entity.

Ye remember yer chastising me about posts letting myself down?? Well even to jest at such things as the above is a low as it gets - put me off my tea you inconsiderate eh sad loser ffs like...