Third Tier Talk - A Championship Mk II

[pineapple stu]

Is there an example of a club currently being denied the opportunity of joining the youth national leagues or League of Ireland?
Well Tralee were denied entry after the A Championship folded for reasons that were never disclosed. I think that decision even left the First Division with an odd number of teams. Salthill and Mervue were quietly kicked out of the league, which is effectively the same thing.

Is there an example of a club at present? Pat Sullivan might argue he's being denied a place with his Limerick team, denied a licence because his face didn't fit.

But the question we're trying to resolve here is why don't more clubs want to step up? Is it because there is no pyramid and no safety net, so what happened Tralee could happen them? Joining a league where every single club bar one (Bray) has subsequently either gone bust or withdrawn is a fairly big barrier to entry, don't you think?

A youth structure is not a pyramid; I don't know why you're confusing the two.

[EatYerGreens]

The usual semantics, bluster, personalisation and disingenuity from you, I see.

But it still doesn't serve to deflect from my question, namely: "What has Strabane ever contributed to 139 years of football in Ireland/NI?"

No hurry in answering, still plenty of popcorn left...

The question you're asking now is very different from the original point you made and got pulled up for. As you well know. You do realise that this stuff remains on the internet, so people can literally see what you said and how it's changed dramatically ? :embarrassed:

Come back to the table when you can present a consistent point/argument without shifting all over the place in a panic when you get called out for talking unfounded :poo: Enjoy that popcorn ! :cool:

[EalingGreen]

The question you're asking now is very different from the original point you made and got pulled up for. As you well know. You do realise that this stuff remains on the internet, so people can literally see what you said and how it's changed dramatically ? :embarrassed:

Come back to the table when you can present a consistent point/argument without shifting all over the place in a panic when you get called out for talking unfounded :poo: Enjoy that popcorn ! :cool:What I originally said was that Strabane is hardly what you might call "fertile football ground" [sic].

You attempted to refute that by pointing out that there are people in Strabane who follow football eg at DCFC or FHFC (no idea of numbers given, mind).

I never denied that, rather I was pointing out that whatever the level of interest in the game in the town, it has never translated into anything tangible.

Which is why I'm not aware of Strabane ever producing any notable clubs, players, managers, administrators, local leagues or stadia etc i.e any of the things that mark somewhere out as being what I call a "proper football town" like eg Sligo, Derry or Newry.

Now I don''t know why you seized upon this, perhaps some ancestral need to stick up for Strabane, or an irrestisbile urge to have a pop at me whenever you can? Both maybe?

Either way, I am perfectly happy for all of this to remain on the internet, for anyone sad enough to crawl through it to determine which of us has got a point, no matter how unimportant, and which of us is talking garbage.,

As for the future, who knows? Athletic may take advantage of the NIFL pyramid to advance to the next stage, and "Good Luck!" to them, I say - they probably have a better chance of that than I have of getting a straight answer to a straight question* from you.


* - In case you've forgotten, it was "What has Strabane ever contributed to 139 years of football in Ireland/NI?"

[legendz]

There's several teams in the underage leagues that aren't affiliated to a LOI club. There are several clubs affiliated to LOI clubs that are part of the underage league.It is a positive that regions without LoI representation have added to the geographical spread of the youth national leagues?
If CK United, Kildare and other clubs who graduate from the youth leagues progress to a third tier level, the league will no longer be a closed shop. There will be clear pathway.
With 20 LoI clubs and 4 other regions represented in the youth leagues, the league might be nearing it's natural limit. The FAI are seeking government funding to improve LoI academies.


Well Tralee were denied entry after the A Championship folded for reasons that were never disclosed. I think that decision even left the First Division with an odd number of teams. Salthill and Mervue were quietly kicked out of the league, which is effectively the same thing.
It was a terrible decision to fold the A Championship. The implementation of the youth leagues has been a positive development in recent years. Tralee could have joined the youth leagues if they wanted. When Tralee entered the A Championship, it was because agreement could not be reached on Kerry League entering.

[nigel-harps1954]

It is a positive that regions without LoI representation have added to the geographical spread of the youth national leagues?
If CK United, Kildare and other clubs who graduate from the youth leagues progress to a third tier level, the league will no longer be a closed shop. There will be clear pathway.
With 20 LoI clubs and 4 other regions represented in the youth leagues, the league might be nearing it's natural limit. The FAI are seeking government funding to improve LoI academies..

That's still a closed shop, no matter what way you paint it.

[legendz]

That's still a closed shop, no matter what way you paint it.The Northern Irish League and the Scottish League had clubs in the past who were campaigning for inclusion. A closed shop.
The time Mullingar were campaigning to join the League of Ireland, a closed shop as well.
The A Championship brought about an open shop. The shut down of the A Championship more or less brought a return of a closed shop. For a few years, expressions of interest were welcome. The youth leagues have been an open shop, within reason.
A third tier licence should be far more achievable than a First Division licence, with less hurdles to negotiate. It should give clubs an opportunity to build.

[pineapple stu]

I mean, literally the point of this is that the IL and Scottish leagues have improved their structure with their recent changes, but you're trying to use that to knock them?

The problem with the A Championship (or proposed third tier) is that there's no filter, so any club can just jump to the third tier if they're suitable or not. Same as how Cabo magically appeared in the second tier even though they patently weren't set up for it. Ditto Dublin City.

And other clubs will have seen what happened Tralee and will feel it's too much of a risk to take and so won't join, because that risk is still there

The problem with your posts is that you keep ignoring others' arguments (like when I asked you how a youth league was a pyramid) and repeating your own nonsense in different words

[A N Mouse]

What I originally said was that Strabane is hardly what you might call "fertile football ground" [sic].

You attempted to refute that by pointing out that there are people in Strabane who follow football eg at DCFC or FHFC (no idea of numbers given, mind).

I never denied that, rather I was pointing out that whatever the level of interest in the game in the town, it has never translated into anything tangible.

Which is why I'm not aware of Strabane ever producing any notable clubs, players, managers, administrators, local leagues or stadia etc i.e any of the things that mark somewhere out as being what I call a "proper football town" like eg Sligo, Derry or Newry.

Now I don''t know why you seized upon this, perhaps some ancestral need to stick up for Strabane, or an irrestisbile urge to have a pop at me whenever you can? Both maybe?

Either way, I am perfectly happy for all of this to remain on the internet, for anyone sad enough to crawl through it to determine which of us has got a point, no matter how unimportant, and which of us is talking garbage.,

As for the future, who knows? Athletic may take advantage of the NIFL pyramid to advance to the next stage, and "Good Luck!" to them, I say - they probably have a better chance of that than I have of getting a straight answer to a straight question* from you.


I'll skip any issue with whatever point you were trying to make. However this



* - In case you've forgotten, it was "What has Strabane ever contributed to 139 years of football in Ireland/NI?"

is pish. And shouldn't be used to justify or defend anything else.

I could ask what has sandy row ever done for Irish cricket?

But they're not the same thing are they? Because the first one isn't a genuine question. It's an attitude. It's the state of football on this island in one question.

It's refusing to play fixtures in Dublin.

It's battering teams off the pitch, and out of the league, ending promising careers in the process.

It's supporters from a third team outnumbering those from the two competing teams at a cup final.

It's refusing to let teams play European fixtures at home.

It's refusing to play at a venue, despite police advice.

It's forcing teams to play home fixtures to two men and a dog miles from home.

It's creating a reason to refuse a club re-entry to the league.

It's allowing teams into the league, despite their ground being underwater more often than Strabane.

It's refusing teams entry to the league on merit, on same same basis as previous questionable refusals.

It's allowing teams with uninsurable grounds to continue playing at grounds which multiple clubs had previously been refused entry based on nominating that as their home.


You can not without hint of irony say that, and then be front and centre giving out about some kid from Strabane not wanting to represent a Belfast based organisation.

The Belfast and District League, for all the movement in the right direction and the shiny new name, is still a leopard.

[legendz]

I mean, literally the point of this is that the IL and Scottish leagues have improved their structure with their recent changes, but you're trying to use that to knock them?

The problem with the A Championship (or proposed third tier) is that there's no filter, so any club can just jump to the third tier if they're suitable or not. Same as how Cabo magically appeared in the second tier even though they patently weren't set up for it. Ditto Dublin City.

And other clubs will have seen what happened Tralee and will feel it's too much of a risk to take and so won't join, because that risk is still there

The problem with your posts is that you keep ignoring others' arguments (like when I asked you how a youth league was a pyramid) and repeating your own nonsense in different wordsThe IL and Scottish League had teams knocking on the door seeking to get in. The LoI doesn't have clubs knocking on the door claiming they are excluded. A completely different situation.
The Third Tier should be an improvement on the A Championship. The Third Tier should just be an extension of what has worked well in the youth leagues. Clubs/entities should not be allowed jump in unless they have already been integrated in as part of the youth leagues.
Tralee and the likes joining the A Championship was a poor foundation. The youth leagues built up in recent years is a strong foundation. The installation of a Third Tier between the youth leagues and LoI level is a natural development.
Clubs will have seen Kerry progress through the youth leagues to the First Division. If a club successfully joins the youth leagues and a Third Tier is established, they should have far more confidence their being less risk than was the case in the A Championship.

[EalingGreen]

I'll skip any issue with whatever point you were trying to make.
The point was quite simple, namely that after NigelHarps originally brought Strabane into the thread, I pointed out that the town has never been known for its football - fair enough, it's hardly compulsory. However I then went on to point out that the pyramid in NI now offers an opportunity for people in the town to put that right, and wished them Good Luck.

And that was it really, until EYG took exception.



However [the question "What has Strabane ever contributed to 139 years of football in Ireland/NI?"] is pish. And shouldn't be used to justify or defend anything else.
I'll take that as meaning you can't answer it, then?

Meanwhile, pray elucidate how/where I used it to "defend" or "justify" anything else.



I could ask what has sandy row ever done for Irish cricket?
Less than Strabane(!), as it happens, but none of that's relevant to the introduction of a pyramid in Irish football, North or South.



But they're not the same thing are they? Because the first one isn't a genuine question. It's an attitude. It's the state of football on this island in one question.
Ah right. Because of one throwaway comment from me about Strabane, you are automatically ascribing some sort of poilitical/sectarian attitutde to me. Despite my also praising eg Newry, Sligo and Derry for being "proper footballing towns" [sic].

How ironic.



It's refusing to play fixtures in Dublin.
It's battering teams off the pitch, and out of the league, ending promising careers in the process.
It's supporters from a third team outnumbering those from the two competing teams at a cup final.
It's refusing to let teams play European fixtures at home.
It's refusing to play at a venue, despite police advice.
It's forcing teams to play home fixtures to two men and a dog miles from home.
It's creating a reason to refuse a club re-entry to the league.
It's allowing teams into the league, despite their ground being underwater more often than Strabane.
It's refusing teams entry to the league on merit, on same same basis as previous questionable refusals.
It's allowing teams with uninsurable grounds to continue playing at grounds which multiple clubs had previously been refused entry based on nominating that as their home.

Thanks, I don't particularly need a history lesson, but if you need to vent, then let it all out.



You can not without hint of irony say that, and then be front and centre giving out about some kid from Strabane not wanting to represent a Belfast based organisation.
Where did I say anything about any of that (eligibilty)?

For the record, my view is that so long as it is within the rules, a player shoiuld be entitled to play for whoever the hell he/she likes. And when it comes to club football. players from one side of the border in Ireland should be entitled to play on the other side, too, if that's what they want.

Which is why we have so many Southerners routinely playing in NI and v.v, without that being a problem for any of them. (Or me, for that matter).



The Belfast and District League, for all the movement in the right direction and the shiny new name, is still a leopard.Perhaps you might address that point to the NIFL's elected CEO, Cliftonville's Gerard Lawlor?

If nothing else, some of the spirit of the season from the man himself might rub off on you:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FkwpEUHXwAAu8bG?format=jpg&name=small

https://mobile.twitter.com/gerardlawlor75

[pineapple stu]

The IL and Scottish League had teams knocking on the door seeking to get in.
Did they? The Highland/Lowland leagues in Scotland were happily separate for decades, just like the LSL/MSL here. A couple of clubs may have wanted to jump up - though there wasn't much interest when Rangers, Airdrie and Clydebank went bust - Gretna from the English leagues joined, and Rangers/Airdrie got their places back. That doesn't sound like clubs knocking on the door to get in, does it?

And in the case where we probably have less interest, you want to start a whole new - regionalised - third tier on an invitation basis, when no-one's interested and the problems Tralee had - changing season, dropping back to the bottom of the Kerry league, etc - are unaddressed?

That makes no sense, no matter how much you refer to a youth setup

[legendz]

And in the case where we probably have less interest, you want to start a whole new - regionalised - third tier on an invitation basis, when no-one's interested and the problems Tralee had - changing season, dropping back to the bottom of the Kerry league, etc - are unaddressed?
I can only see a Third Tier getting off the ground if at least 8 teams can join. CK United, Kildare and six LoI second teams. If less than six LoI teams are interested, the ingredients are not there.
If Monaghan United or Cavan Monaghan and Mayo progress, their potential participation in the Third Tier is a few more years away.

[EatYerGreens]

Did they? The Highland/Lowland leagues in Scotland were happily separate for decades, just like the LSL/MSL here. A couple of clubs may have wanted to jump up - though there wasn't much interest when Rangers, Airdrie and Clydebank went bust - Gretna from the English leagues joined, and Rangers/Airdrie got their places back. That doesn't sound like clubs knocking on the door to get in, does it?

And in the case where we probably have less interest, you want to start a whole new - regionalised - third tier on an invitation basis, when no-one's interested and the problems Tralee had - changing season, dropping back to the bottom of the Kerry league, etc - are unaddressed?

That makes no sense, no matter how much you refer to a youth setup

For the record - both Donegal Celtic and Lurgan Celtic tried repeatedly to join the Irish League 20-30years ago. Donegal Celtic applied every year for over a decade. Both eventually had to resort to threatening legal action, with the backing of the NI Equality Commission. So there certainly were clubs knocking on the door of the Irish League anyway (albeit largely a 'protestant league for protestant clubs' both then and now).

Donegal forced to take legal route - Independent.ie (https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/donegal-forced-to-take-legal-route-26248262.html)

[pineapple stu]

I can only see a Third Tier getting off the ground if at least 8 teams can join. CK United, Kildare and six LoI second teams. If less than six LoI teams are interested, the ingredients are not there.
But nobody's interested - we know this because it was due to start this year, and there's nobody for it.

Yet you still think it's the best way forward?

[Buller]

But nobody's interested - we know this because it was due to start this year, and there's nobody for it.

Yet you still think it's the best way forward?

Surely any 3rd tier should be regionalised to minimise the travel expenses? Wonder is that the plan?

Very offputting to any prospective clubs to have to join a nationwide league with very modest fans/support baseline - I think its in the region of 100k a yr at a minimum to run a nationwide division side.

[pineapple stu]

That was the plan wasn't it? North and South?

I'd agree it should be regionalised for the reasons you say - but then you need twice as many teams.

All while we have regional leagues in Leinster and Munster anyway - which other countries are just clipping onto the pyramid...

[A N Mouse]

The point was quite simple, namely that after NigelHarps originally brought Strabane into the thread, I pointed out that the town has never been known for its football - fair enough, it's hardly compulsory. However I then went on to point out that the pyramid in NI now offers an opportunity for people in the town to put that right, and wished them Good Luck.

And that was it really, until EYG took exception.

I'll take that as meaning you can't answer it, then?

Meanwhile, pray elucidate how/where I used it to "defend" or "justify" anything else.

Less than Strabane(!), as it happens, but none of that's relevant to the introduction of a pyramid in Irish football, North or South.

Ah right. Because of one throwaway comment from me about Strabane, you are automatically ascribing some sort of poilitical/sectarian attitutde to me. Despite my also praising eg Newry, Sligo and Derry for being "proper footballing towns" [sic].

How ironic.


Thanks, I don't particularly need a history lesson, but if you need to vent, then let it all out.

Where did I say anything about any of that (eligibilty)?

For the record, my view is that so long as it is within the rules, a player shoiuld be entitled to play for whoever the hell he/she likes. And when it comes to club football. players from one side of the border in Ireland should be entitled to play on the other side, too, if that's what they want.

Which is why we have so many Southerners routinely playing in NI and v.v, without that being a problem for any of them. (Or me, for that matter).

Perhaps you might address that point to the NIFL's elected CEO, Cliftonville's Gerard Lawlor?

If nothing else, some of the spirit of the season from the man himself might rub off on you:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FkwpEUHXwAAu8bG?format=jpg&name=small

https://mobile.twitter.com/gerardlawlor75

I'm not ascribing anything to you. I'm pointing that asking the question as you have is problematic.

The most recent event I listed was in the last five years. And it was correct, but in the context of what went before, particularly the one less than ten years before at the start of pyramid a team was denied entry because they wanted to play in the same ground. It could be construed as sectarian.

So if it's ok to ask that question then surely it's also ok to ask 'given a hundred plus years of examples, why tf would a team from Strabane want to play in the top tier?'


Hint, I don't thinking either question deserves answering.

And if it's not being used to make a point then why give voice to it? It's writing off not one section of the community but an entire chunk of the map.


And for the record I'm a balanced individual, having a cup on each shoulder.

Without giving it much thought I can name three high profile Strabane men lined out for DCFC, I want to say two of them were capped. Sion, not the Swiss would surely be a known entity even in the big smoke? Which of the top of my head adds at least another high profile personality. And if we were to take the wider cricketing area, which you've seemingly already chosen to ignore, then you're well on your way to spiting your face.

[EalingGreen]

I'm not ascribing anything to you. I'm pointing that asking the question as you have is problematic.

The most recent event I listed was in the last five years. And it was correct, but in the context of what went before, particularly the one less than ten years before at the start of pyramid a team was denied entry because they wanted to play in the same ground. It could be construed as sectarian.

So if it's ok to ask that question then surely it's also ok to ask 'given a hundred plus years of examples, why tf would a team from Strabane want to play in the top tier?'


Hint, I don't thinking either question deserves answering.

And if it's not being used to make a point then why give voice to it? It's writing off not one section of the community but an entire chunk of the map.


And for the record I'm a balanced individual, having a cup on each shoulder.

Without giving it much thought I can name three high profile Strabane men lined out for DCFC, I want to say two of them were capped. Sion, not the Swiss would surely be a known entity even in the big smoke? Which of the top of my head adds at least another high profile personality. And if we were to take the wider cricketing area, which you've seemingly already chosen to ignore, then you're well on your way to spiting your face.Nope, I tried Google Translate, Alexa and a big Thesaurua and they can't make any more sense of that than I can.

Happy New Year.

[culloty82]

That was the plan wasn't it? North and South?

I'd agree it should be regionalised for the reasons you say - but then you need twice as many teams.

All while we have regional leagues in Leinster and Munster anyway - which other countries are just clipping onto the pyramid...

Pretty much a chicken-and-egg situation - the very reason why clubs are reluctant currently to apply for the First Division is because of the gulf in licence requirements and football standards between the LoI and the existing regional leagues, yet because there are only a handful of teams interested in moving up, a tier to bridge that gap would need a number of reserve sides to make up the numbers. Of course, a few Rockmounts, Lucans etc could be added to the mix, but then that risks similar issues as occurred in Galway with Mervue and Salthill.

[timothydec77]

The League of Ireland is seen as a foolish adventure by the Msl and similar teams.

While Cork City and Cobh have gone bust . I have never heard of a Msl team going bust.

[GUFCghost]

That was the plan wasn't it? North and South?

I'd agree it should be regionalised for the reasons you say - but then you need twice as many teams.

All while we have regional leagues in Leinster and Munster anyway - which other countries are just clipping onto the pyramid...

That's the crux of the problem, they're not actually regional leagues. They both basically greater Cork/Dublin leagues.

We need to sort promotion and relegation between junior & intermediate as well as between intermediate and senior. But again, how is that going to happen when none of the clubs actually want it?

[legendz]

But nobody's interested - we know this because it was due to start this year, and there's nobody for it.

Yet you still think it's the best way forward?CK United and Kildare are only reaching U19 level in 2023. I'm surprised 2024 is being spoken about for a Third Tier. I thought CK United and Kildare will be at U19 level for two years before seeking to progress to a Third Tier.
In the LoI then there is no indication of which clubs will enter a second team. Shamrock Rovers are the one clear standout. That leaves at least 5 more required. While a regionalised third tier might be preferable for some, getting at least 8 clubs on board will only suit a national league.
If enough LoI second teams are not coming on board, the First Division should be allowed to expand to 11 or 12 if new clubs can attain a First Division licence. The LoI is at a crossroads. Establish a Third Tier or expand the First Division as new clubs graduate from the youth leagues.

[Shinkicker]

For the record - both Donegal Celtic and Lurgan Celtic tried repeatedly to join the Irish League 20-30years ago. Donegal Celtic applied every year for over a decade. Both eventually had to resort to threatening legal action, with the backing of the NI Equality Commission. So there certainly were clubs knocking on the door of the Irish League anyway (albeit largely a 'protestant league for protestant clubs' both then and now).

Donegal forced to take legal route - Independent.ie (https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/donegal-forced-to-take-legal-route-26248262.html)
This was back in the days of the old B division. To gain access you had to be voted in by the existing clubs in the B division. While the clubs in Belfast and surrounding area voted DC in it was several provincial clubs who blocked their acceptance for years. The decision should have been made by the IFA and not the clubs in the B division.

[pineapple stu]

That's the crux of the problem, they're not actually regional leagues. They both basically greater Cork/Dublin leagues.
True, yep

And how helpful can it be to regional sides to have the likes of the Wicklow/Meath/Kerry District Leagues?

Surely the competition in those can't be as good as if they were all merged into a greater Leinster/Munster structure?

[A N Mouse]

Nope, I tried Google Translate, Alexa and a big Thesaurua and they can't make any more sense of that than I can.

Happy New Year.
It would be a very generous person would look at the question as phrased, multiple times, and take away 'what are the footballing highlights of Strabane?'

Instead the extra words imply denigration and conflict, if not hostility, so more 'what they the **** have they done for us?'.

So despite your progressive attitudes and platitudes you've said the quiet part out loud. In the spirit of what you posted earlier you can begin the new year by holding your hand up and saying 'yep could have phrased that one better'. Or continue to look in the mirror and tell yourself you're not part of the problem.

[culloty82]

Limerick FC re-entering U15 and U17 leagues:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fm2FrHZXoAEUXh2?format=jpg&name=900x900

[sbgawa]

FFSwhat is the point?

[Shearer]

FFSwhat is the point?
It's POS being stuck for something to do.

Last year they were a disgrace and most of the players they had have either gone back to their former club or joined another loi club.
They'd usually get the players Treaty don't want but they've left it so late that the ones that are good enough have gone elsewhere.

They can't retain players. Most of the players that have gone in there in the past haven't lasted more than a season, some haven't even made it to the season's end. I know of close to a dozen players who played and won't return.

Just because they can submit teams doesn't mean they should. Nobody cares about them anymore, the time for them to pull the pin came ages ago.

[Longfordian]

That might just be the least professional looking LOI related statement ever. Which is some achievement. It reads like a phishing email.

[nigel-harps1954]

Limerick Foorball Club.

[pineapple stu]

Oh crumbs - I missed that!

Glorious

[Elfman]

I thought it was a wind up too but they've posted it on their Facebook page (with similar observations on the spelling and grammar):
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid07ie1395yR84o3ay7ZXXvswS TG7HQ4rmEneyK9cVsdBCYw34cyJ1JZADRKSJUTKshl&id=93574368885&__tn__=%2AW-R

[Philosophizer]

It’s as if someone wrote it after about 15 pints.

[legendz]

If the likes of UCC and UL were to join the third Tier, with Limerick FC integrated the into the youth national leagues, a UL & Limerick FC merger could potentially qualify for a First Division licence.

[EatYerGreens]

Limerick Foorball Club.

They spelled 'Poorball' wrong.

[sbgawa]

If the likes of UCC and UL were to join the third Tier, with Limerick FC integrated the into the youth national leagues, a UL & Limerick FC merger could potentially qualify for a First Division licence.

UL would have to much brains to align themselves with Limerick FC

[culloty82]

Interesting paragraph in today's Sunday Independent report on yesterday's FAI AGM, where Mark Scanlan discusses the third tier plans - he says he prefers not to consider it as another layer of the LoI, as it would have links down as well as up, as part of a broader discussion on a pyramid. He still hopes to be able to launch next year, but (and this is my personal opinion following) better to accept a delay of a year or two if necessary to get all stakeholders onside, rather than rushing to meet a self-imposed deadline and having to rewrite plans.

[Lim till i die]

Of all the consequences of the Ukraine/Nato v Russia war the granting of extra play money to Paud is arguably the most serious.

They've probably lost two dozen players since the end of last season between kerry and treaty and whoever

I'll be amazed if there's enough players left out there that want to joins pauds travelling circus that are anywhere near the required standard to even give a LoI team a game.

[EatYerGreens]

Of all the consequences of the Ukraine/Nato v Russia war

That comment is out of order on so many levels LTID :rolleyes:

You'd be well advised to stick to the footie & leave the Mick Wallace tribute act stuff outside.

[Lim till i die]

That comment is out of order on so many levels LTID :rolleyes:

You'd be well advised to stick to the footie & leave the Mick Wallace tribute act stuff outside.

Please try to stay on topic.

I cannot stand Mick Wallace for the record.

It's important that's clarified.

[EatYerGreens]

Please try to stay on topic.

I cannot stand Mick Wallace for the record.

It's important that's clarified.

So stop claiming NATO is at war with Russia. Stick to the football, rather than make cheap political points.

[Lim till i die]

So stop claiming NATO is at war with Russia.

"Stop saying things I don't agree with on a discussion forum."

You're bravery is needed on the front, you're wasting precious time!!




Anyway, third tier - is there any reason whatsoever why a strong junior team would have any interest in climbing the ladder? I don't see a financial motive (quite the opposite!) and even from a prestige point of view, like I'm sure if you said to any junior club would you rather win the fai junior Cup or be solidly mid table in the league of Ireland first division they'd choose the former.

The problem isn't just on the junior side either mind. If they ever try to make it compulsory for League Of Ireland clubs to field a reserve team you'll have delegates immolatting themselves at the table rather than agree. Eventhough a reserve team would probably cost the same as a decent striker. But clubs can't take the longview when it's a day to day problem just trying to keep going.


As I type I realise I've no answers :D

I think reserves should be compulsory for a few reasons. But I don't think it'll ever happen at the same time.

Regarding new clubs, talk to me about kerry in five years, could be well wrong but I don't see it.

[Kiki Balboa]

"Stop saying things I don't agree with on a discussion forum."

You're bravery is needed on the front, you're wasting precious time!!



Don't get defensive when you are called on lies and misinformation. Russia alone is reponsible for the invasion.


And unlike football, many lads, women, and children are currently being murdered because of it.

[pineapple stu]

LTID of all posters is well able to stick up for himself, but where did he say anyone other than Russia was responsible for what's happening right now?

And the amount of offence being taken at the notion that the NATO bloc is (rightly) helping out in the background/by proxy is bizarre.

[Kiki Balboa]

LTID of all posters is well able to stick up for himself, but where did he say anyone other than Russia was responsible for what's happening right now?

And the amount of offence being taken at the notion that the NATO bloc is (rightly) helping out in the background/by proxy is bizarre.

He said ''Ukraine/Nato v Russia war'', as if all sides are equally responsible.

And yeah, people normally get pretty tetchy about an attempt at genocide that is happening right now.

[pineapple stu]

I think you're reading your own view into that first line tbh. I don't see anywhere in LTID's post any indication of who's responsible.

And it is a NATO/Ukraine v Russia war in reality. I don't see Syria/China/Iran mucking in in support of Ukraine, do you?

The internet would be a better place if people didn't think getting offended constituted a valid argument.

[Kiki Balboa]

I think you're reading your own view into that first line tbh. I don't see anywhere in LTID's post any indication of who's responsible.

And it is a NATO/Ukraine v Russia war in reality. I don't see Syria/China/Iran mucking in in support of Ukraine, do you?

The internet would be a better place if people didn't think getting offended constituted a valid argument.

If you are going to make a statement like that you best be correct....

You are wrong though. NATO has not fired a single shot, so why would they be included? If your argument is NATO countries (not even NATO itself) is supplying weapons to Ukraine, why would you not say it is Ukraine vs Iran/ Russia? Thats because, factually it is a russian invasion of Ukraine, not NATO. Ukraine is not a member of NATO and has many times offered never to join the organisation (which countries in East Europe do because of Russian agression).

By using NATO wrongly in this context legitimizes Russians actions by saying there aims are grander than what they are (which is just rank imperialism, which is why they attwcked Kyiv and Odessa).

I know this is a football forum, but even still i feel it only right to call out misinformation about a very important conflict and huge human suffering, no matter how well intentioned. You can make up your mind about an issue anyway you like, but its important to do this with the reality.

Mod can delete all comments if he wants tho.

[pineapple stu]

The dark blue countries in this map are the countries supplying weapons to Ukraine

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/50/Countries_supplying_military_equipment_to_Ukraine_ during_the_2022_Russian_invasion.svg/1920px-Countries_supplying_military_equipment_to_Ukraine_ during_the_2022_Russian_invasion.svg.png

The dark blue countries on this map are NATO members

https://geoawesomeness.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/NATO-Member-States.png

Fairly big crossover, don't you think?

I think most people can understand the subtleties behind why NATO isn't in and of itself involved, and yet see that its member states are giving huge backing to Ukraine, and so conclude that it's entirely reasonable to describe the conflict as, to all intents and purposes, NATO/Ukraine v Russia. It's certainly not reasonable to jump down a poster's throat for such a comment.

And speaking of lies and misinformation, I trust you'll be retracting your own comment that LTID has somehow suggested Russia aren't entirely to blame for this. You wouldn't want to be spreading lies and misinformation, would you?

Though then I read stuff like -


By using NATO wrongly in this context legitimizes Russians actions

- and realise that maybe you do just want to project your own views onto LTID's post. Because that comment is nonsense.

[Buller]

And it is a NATO/Ukraine v Russia war in reality. I don't see Syria/China/Iran mucking in in support of Ukraine, do you?



It'd be over in 24 hours if it was a NATO/Ukraine v Russia war in reality. Its very simple really, NATO are not at war.

Arms supplies are irreverent. Iran and North Korea are not at war for example, even though they supplied Russia with weapons and drones.

[Lim till i die]

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the Internet. :)

Kiki, your opinion, (which is all the above post is) isn't worth thruppence to me or anyone else on the forum for that matter.

There's a Current Affairs forum if you really feel the need to be soooo earnest.

I'm not going to debate you there or anything. But it is there for you if you need it.

The reason I referred to it as the ukraine/nato v russia war is because it obviously, demonstrably, is.

But feel free to refer to it as "The war in the East" or "Ukraine v The Axis of EVIL" or "the war of the buttons". Whatever is cool with you basically.

Try for your own good not to get so upset by statements of fact though.

Even if they're on the Internet and you think you can gain virtue points by misinterpreting them. : good :








Third tier anyone??