View Full Version : eircom League 2007 Attendances
Frankfurt Hoop
12/03/2007, 1:13 PM
Part of what you missed by not wading through the thread, incidentally, included a guess from UCD of 1600-1700. This was immediately after the game when one of the officials was counting cash, so the official attendance wouldn't have been to hand as yet. I didn't wait around because I was thirsty. :)
You had that thirsty look about you alright :)
I had seen the UCD guesstimate and ony threw out my own to show how inaccurate the whole thing is. For a start a crowd always looks bigger at a floodlit game compared to a game played in daylight.
It's a pity that we're still fannying around with estimates when the clubs themselves supply accurate figures to Merrion Square for every game.
Frankfurt Hoop
12/03/2007, 1:21 PM
The figure of 1572 at the Shels' game does not include season ticket holders afaik???
What is the point of a club making available an attendance figure that they know to be inaccurate? What possible benefit can Shelbourne derive from deflating their attendance figures?
In Britain and the continent it is more common to count all season ticket holders as being in attendance whether they are actually there or not.
dcfcsteve
12/03/2007, 1:59 PM
What is the point of a club making available an attendance figure that they know to be inaccurate? What possible benefit can Shelbourne derive from deflating their attendance figures?
Clubs have a Health and Safety/Capacity obligation to know exactly how many people are inside their stadium - regardless of how they paid. This should therefore be what is presented as the true attendance figure.
With the introduction of VAT on gate receipts, there will unfortunately be an incentive for clubs to under-declare attendances. However - nothing to stop those clubs small-minded enough to act in this way from giving the same accurate overall attendance figire, and then over-play the amount of freebies within that if they really want to save a few Euro.
OneRedArmy
12/03/2007, 2:49 PM
There already existed an incentive to under-report attendences regardless of the VAT position.
Hypothetically of course ;) you under-report attendence and therefore cash takings, which understate your turnover. Your pay the unrecorded cash directly into the pockets of players and staff, thus avoiding income tax, PRSI and corporation tax (in the unlikely event the club is profitable).
TheBoss
12/03/2007, 3:32 PM
http://www.eircomloi.ie/news_item_6.htm
20,632 paid in to watch the games, apparantly up 17%
bluemovie
12/03/2007, 3:43 PM
A member of the management committee told me immediately after the Blues v Cork game that there were over 3000 at the RSC according to the club's figures.
BohsFans
12/03/2007, 3:43 PM
OK, so on that basis (feel free to argue, those who have other figures), the first update is as follows -
PREMIER DIVISION
Bohs - 3,078 (2006 - 1,463; 2005 - 1,976; 2004 - 2,340)
Bray - --- (1,027; 1,550; 818 FD)
Cork - --- (2,941; 3,644; 4,033)
Derry - 4,000 (3,229; 2,698; 1,672)
Drogheda - --- (1,751; 1,682; 1,554)
Galway - 3,314 (1,148 FD; 566 FD; 571 FD)
Longford - 1,000 (681; 1,004; 1,131)
Pat's - --- (1,342; 1,599; 1,882)
Rovers - --- (1,089 FD; 1,539; 1,349)
Sligo - --- (1,806; 1,794 FD; 781 FD)
UCD - 1,700 (546; 653; 306 FD)
Waterford - 3,000 (915; 1,513; 1,753)
FIRST DIVISION
Athlone - 2,000 (421; 316; 291)
Cobh - 375 (368; 403; 240)
Dundalk - 2,500 (1,078; 474; 591)
Harps - --- (428; 1,347 PD; 1,106)
Kildare - --- (265; 186; 298)
Kilkenny - --- (122; 185; 110)
Limerick - --- (364; 669; 188)
Monaghan - 309 (204; 183; 182)
Shels - 1,572 (1,690 PD; 1,949 PD; 2,158 PD)
Wexford - --- (n/a)
your 2216 over.
I assume it's the Dundalk, UCD and Derry games?
Bald Student
12/03/2007, 3:48 PM
http://www.eircomloi.ie/news_item_6.htm
20,632 paid in to watch the games, apparantly up 17%Good work by the FAI, they need to keep these good news stories to the front and and avoid bad news to generate a bit of hype about the games.
Louth4sam
12/03/2007, 4:29 PM
http://www.eircomloi.ie/news_item_6.htm
20,632 paid in to watch the games, apparantly up 17%
your 2216 over.
I assume it's the Dundalk, UCD and Derry games?
Like i said in an earlier post our figure of 2500 included schoolkids that got in for free and season tickets ie people who didnt pay in to watch the game
http://www.eircomloi.ie/news_item_6.htm
20,632 paid in to watch the games, apparantly up 17%
I like the way Noel Mooney says the target was 18,000. Any chance he decided the target after the saw the total? ;) There is no way the Promotional Officers could have add any significant impact on last weekends totals.
Anyone else notice take can't find that news item from the 'News' link?
:confused:
pineapple stu
12/03/2007, 5:27 PM
There is no way the Promotional Officers could have add any significant impact on last weekends totals.
They had a part to play in the Open Days which were held by some clubs (UCD, Pat's, Cork for a start) which seem to have been big successes. UCD gave away a goody bag including a club hat to everyone who attended, for example, and there were a fair few hats on the way into the ground.
your 2216 over.
I assume it's the Dundalk, UCD and Derry games?
Because they end in "000"?
I'd say the difference is more likely me including those who didn't pay (such as myself). Not saying the figures here are 100% accurate, obviously, but it makes sense. 2216 people got in for free, effectively.
UCD figure is about right anyway.
Raheny Red
12/03/2007, 7:15 PM
What is the point of a club making available an attendance figure that they know to be inaccurate? What possible benefit can Shelbourne derive from deflating their attendance figures?
In Britain and the continent it is more common to count all season ticket holders as being in attendance whether they are actually there or not.
I'm not 100% sure if they were included, Fintan works on the gate so if he sees the post I'm sure he can clarify for you!
higgins
13/03/2007, 12:29 AM
1,572 PAYING fans!
Another 125 or thereabouts who got in for free but they should be counted so it's about 1,700
Shels didn't release any figure.
Bald Student
13/03/2007, 12:53 AM
your 2216 over.That's assuming both sets of figures use the same methodology. The FAI may or may not count people who came in for free (for example). We don't have enough info to directly compare the figures.
clubs have to include everyone that goes through the gates for their games.Galway Uniteds safe holding capacity is very much reduced because of the development work thats ongoing at Terryland so we have to monitor everyone coming into the ground for health and safety reasons. Im sure the majority of other clubs would take the same approach.
dcfcsteve
13/03/2007, 9:45 AM
clubs have to include everyone that goes through the gates for their games.Galway Uniteds safe holding capacity is very much reduced because of the development work thats ongoing at Terryland so we have to monitor everyone coming into the ground for health and safety reasons. Im sure the majority of other clubs would take the same approach.
Every club has to monitor and know how many people are in their ground - it's not just something you do when you've got building works.
I suspect that a lot of clubs may not bothe rtheir arse knowing the exact figure, as they're unlikely to reach capacity.
Steve Bruce
13/03/2007, 10:21 AM
17% is some jump. Looks very promising in the LOI now. Especially with the massive prize money.
In Northern Ireland we suffer greatly from apathy. Linfield and to a lesser extent Glentoran still have decent crowds. But the rest are relatively poor unless they are going well.
ashbournebohs
13/03/2007, 10:47 AM
There already existed an incentive to under-report attendences regardless of the VAT position.
Hypothetically of course ;) you under-report attendence and therefore cash takings, which understate your turnover. Your pay the unrecorded cash directly into the pockets of players and staff, thus avoiding income tax, PRSI and corporation tax (in the unlikely event the club is profitable).
That should all change when the cap on wages re turnover 65%comes in as clubs will need to declare every sourch of income possible
dcfcsteve
13/03/2007, 11:05 AM
17% is some jump. Looks very promising in the LOI now. Especially with the massive prize money.
In Northern Ireland we suffer greatly from apathy. Linfield and to a lesser extent Glentoran still have decent crowds. But the rest are relatively poor unless they are going well.
Early days yet Steve - too soon to make a call on any growth in appeal.
Apart from St Pat's on occassions last night, the 5 EL teams I've seen live/on TV to-date this year haven't played particularly well. I hope the exodus of players to Britain over the close season hasn't reduced the quality in the league too much, as that could impact any prospective growth in support.
As loathe as I am to defend the FAI - at least they're making the right noises about attendances etc. The IFA don't see, to have any focus on the issues of the IL at all.
Steve Bruce
13/03/2007, 11:54 AM
Early days yet Steve - too soon to make a call on any growth in appeal.
Apart from St Pat's on occassions last night, the 5 EL teams I've seen live/on TV to-date this year haven't played particularly well. I hope the exodus of players to Britain over the close season hasn't reduced the quality in the league too much, as that could impact any prospective growth in support.
As loathe as I am to defend the FAI - at least they're making the right noises about attendances etc. The IFA don't see, to have any focus on the issues of the IL at all.
The FAI are not perfect but they certainly try a lot harder than the IFA.
The IFA are concentrating more on how to get the next freebie away on hte continenent or trying to screw Linfield out of our 99 year contract for interntionals at Windsor(which I want away from Windsor, but with compensation attached)
The IFA have done very little to promote our local game and to try and attract new supporters.
Linfield as a club however has invited many youth groups to Windsor, from all sides of the community. Just the other week we had a youth group from the nationalist/republican Falls Road. Too me this shows you how far Linfield have come in the last 20/30 years and it also shows you that Linfield are trying to appeal to the wider community, which although very slowly I think is happening.(Linfield tracksuits spotted on the Falls road)
The Linfield crowds in the last 2 years are up from the previous years, which is encouraging for us.
But untill we have an IFA/League wide compaign we will not see the growth that we need for our league to succeed.
Personally I feel the IFA should base our league on the model of yourselves as you seem to be going in the right direction.
Without trying to big up the Irish League, for many years we where ahead of yourself in the LOI, its only been the last 5 years or so that you have come up from behind and overtaken us. My biggest fear is that you will continually to stretch your lead ahead of us.
Linfield so far to have competed with the LOI, by winning the Setanta cup and also topping the group the following year with the eventuall top two clubs in Republic of Ireland.
Hopefully the Setanta cup will help increase the Irish League standard and we learn from our LOI counterparts.
Shels didn't release any figure.
Thats what got you in trouble with the licencing board. ;)
pineapple stu
13/03/2007, 9:58 PM
17% is some jump. Looks very promising in the LOI now. Especially with the massive prize money.
Hook, line and sinker. ;)
That's assuming both sets of figures use the same methodology. The FAI may or may not count people who came in for free (for example). We don't have enough info to directly compare the figures.
I think the FAI article explicitly states they counted paying customers only, whereas any guesstimates here would be total crowd.
Bald Student
13/03/2007, 11:15 PM
UCD - 1,700 (546; 653; 306 FD)1645 is the official figure.
dcfcsteve
14/03/2007, 12:45 AM
1645 is the official figure.
Only a 3% margin of error in that figure, versus the 1,700 figure we were using.
Shows that guestimated attendances on here aren't really that far out - so long as we have a few people who know the grounds and were at the games to come to a consensus between them.
Is it me or do we seem to have a lot more official attendances being released this season than last ?
Bald Student
14/03/2007, 1:30 AM
Only a 3% margin of error in that figure, versus the 1,700 figure we were using.Less if you consider that the official attendance wouldn't have included the kids teams who played at half time and a few others who didn't pay in.
I think the main problem with the guesstimates is that some fans deliberately over-estimate their own crowds. I’m not going to name clubs because I have no interest in getting into a row but there are some away grounds I visit where the attendances posted on here are wildly different to what I saw at a game.
GalwayFrancis
14/03/2007, 8:41 AM
are wildly different to what I saw at a game.
what would you see as wildly different?
Lim till i die
14/03/2007, 8:48 AM
what would you see as wildly different?
The attendances posted on here ;)
OneRedArmy
14/03/2007, 9:01 AM
I think the main problem with the guesstimates is that some fans deliberately over-estimate their own crowds. I’m not going to name clubs because I have no interest in getting into a row but there are some away grounds I visit where the attendances posted on here are wildly different to what I saw at a game.Cork are having a tough year, no need to pick on them again......:D
AnnaghRed
14/03/2007, 3:51 PM
Bohs was 3079
Watched a bit of that game on telly and was amazed the crowd was only 3000, the stand on the far side looked pretty much full to me and must hold close to that figure on its own.
Cork are having a tough year, no need to pick on them again......:D
On a percentage basis I think estimates for City attendances as good as any other clubs. If you have crowd of 500 in a small stadium its easy to count everyone & being out by couple of hundred is difficult.
City fans know the total capacity of all the sections in Turners Cross so makes estimating totals easier. Having all seaters makes it easier too as capacities more reliable.
BohsFans
14/03/2007, 5:32 PM
1645 is the official figure.
justified, thank you! :)
pineapple stu
14/03/2007, 5:33 PM
Only because I and 54 others didn't pay in. ;)
alabama rover
16/03/2007, 9:50 PM
shouldn't this be a sticky?
Battery Rover
16/03/2007, 10:50 PM
Limerick 37 vs Athlone tonight.
I heard attendance announced during the game was 1125 paying customers.
atfconline
17/03/2007, 12:08 AM
Limerick 37 vs Athlone tonight.
I heard attendance announced during the game was 1125 paying customers.
Followed later on by, "Our guest of honour tonight is Fran Gavin...." :)
Would have thought 500/600 myself. That covered area isn't that big, even with a good spread of people around the pitch.
pineapple stu
17/03/2007, 12:14 AM
Seemed a lower crowd than usual at Drogs-UCD. Usually about 1500, so maybe 1300?
About 1100 at Harps V Shels, and that's pretty much official.
RTE are saying that there was a crowd of 4500 at Cork -v- Galway? didnt think there would have been half of that going by what I could see on the tv?
Battery Rover
17/03/2007, 9:56 AM
Would have thought 500/600 myself. That covered area isn't that big, even with a good spread of people around the pitch.
That was my opinion as well until I heard it being announced. Will be hard judge crowds down there without official announcements
gael353
17/03/2007, 10:16 AM
Limerick 37 vs Athlone tonight.
I heard attendance announced during the game was 1125 paying customers.
No there was that amount (1125/1135 not sure which) the paying customers thing would be my doubt as all under 12's were let in for free but would be included in that figure.
Lim till i die
17/03/2007, 10:19 AM
Would have thought 500/600 myself. That covered area isn't that big, even with a good spread of people around the pitch.
:rolleyes:
Ah ya, it is mate
There were 1198 paying customers. That was the official attendance, I could probably get the ticket stubs and send them to you if you don't believe me. Plus you could throw in a couple of hundred more for the free kiddies should you be that way inclined
How you can contradict an official figure by so much when you've never been in a ground before is beyond me
I've heard of double vision but half vision?? :rolleyes:
Terry
17/03/2007, 10:22 AM
Ah ya, it is mate
There were 1198 paying customers. That was the official attendance, I could probably get the ticket stubs and send them to you if you don't believe me. Plus you could throw in a couple of hundred more for the free kiddies should you be that way inclined
How you can contradict an official figure by so much when you've never been in a ground before is beyond me
I've heard of double vision but half vision?? :rolleyes:
Limerick boosting there attendances !!!!! :eek: :D
gael353
17/03/2007, 10:24 AM
Limerick boosting there attendances !!!!! :eek: :D ha, by playing attractive football ill have you know.
Lim till i die
17/03/2007, 10:26 AM
Limerick boosting there attendances !!!!! :D
:D
I was waiting to be leapt on by a few Galway fans :eek:
Just couldn't let the idiocy of a 500 to 600 estimate pass is all
Terry
17/03/2007, 10:29 AM
hehehe, had to say it after last season and yer reckoning of us boosting ours. Have to say though that the athlone lads were fairly out so? funny how away supporters find it hard to judge the crowds at away matches !!!!!
Lim till i die
17/03/2007, 10:36 AM
Have to say though that the athlone lads were fairly out so?
Being out by that much in a ground like the Jacks implies one of 3 things:
1. Some baffling deep-seated resentment towards Limerick
2. A complete failure to grasp the concept of addition in the midlands region
3. Defects caused by inbreeding are far more serious then we could ever have imagined
Terry
17/03/2007, 10:38 AM
Being out by that much in a ground like the Jacks implies one of 3 things:
1. Some baffling deep-seated resentment towards Limerick
2. A complete failure to grasp the concept of addition in the midlands region
3. Defects caused by inbreeding are far more serious then we could ever have imagined
last season we were saying the same things about other supporters towards us !!:)
Lim till i die
17/03/2007, 10:41 AM
last season we were saying the same things about other supporters towards us !!:)
Yep those Cobh people are quite the 12 toed bunch aswell :p ;)
Raheny Red
17/03/2007, 11:46 AM
About 1100 at Harps V Shels, and that's pretty much official.
That should be about right!
RTE are saying that there was a crowd of 4500 at Cork -v- Galway? didnt think there would have been half of that going by what I could see on the tv?
There was definately more than half that. Derrynane and Donie ford were pretty much full. Id say around 3000 and the papers today said the same. Never 4,500 there
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