2009 attendances

[SkStu]

It is (doing great maths explaining today!).

Take 10 teams with averages of 1500, and 2 teams with averages of 500. Overall average - 1333. Those bottom two teams get relegated, so we now have 10 teams, all of whom suffer a drop to 1400. New average - 1400. Premier Division crowd is up although every team has had a decline. So saying the Premier Division crowd will probably increase is irrelevant, as was the point CT was kind of making (noting crowds will be up because us and Cobh are gone).

QED. :)

surely the fairest way for comparisons sake, working off the fact that there is a drop in the number of teams, is to take a mean for the previous year based on ten teams.

In other words, take the top team and bottom teams averages out of the original equation and work off the remaining 10 teams, giving an average of 1400.

The remaining ten teams the following season attendance averages drop to 1400 meaning no real loss in attendance. And, of course, if attendances stabilise there is an actual increase.

To me, that would make more sense than the simplistic formula you have suggested Stu.

edit: (but, of course, im no Carol Vorderman either!!)

[pineapple stu]

surely the fairest way for comparisons sake, working off the fact that there is a drop in the number of teams, is to take a mean for the previous year based on ten teams.
The fairest way is to ignore the division average and work off team averages. Do you care if the division average is down 100 people if your gates are up 200? That's why I show the division average as an afterthought on the summary post, but the main bit of it is club averages.

[SkStu]

The fairest way is to ignore the division average and work off team averages. Do you care if the division average is down 100 people if your gates are up 200?

i agree, of course, from a clubs perspective. But the FAI will only be interested in the division average.

[pineapple stu]

They should be interested then in the combined average of the Premier and First Divisions, which (until last year anyway, and even then only in theory) was a closed set of the same 22 teams. That's a fair comparison.

Course, if they want to issue a press release saying that crowds are up 10% in the Premier but then not mention that it's because the two smallest clubs got relegated, fire ahead. Bit of good news never hurt, even if it is nonsense.

[dcfcsteve]

So numbers up around 50%. FAI must be doing a great job.

Up around 50% versus what ? :confused:

Surely not versus opening weekend of last season - which is all you can compare it with...

[pineapple stu]

Pushing five years on the board and you still haven't cottoned on to sarcasm yet?!

[pete]

Up around 50% versus what ? :confused:

Surely not versus opening weekend of last season - which is all you can compare it with...

You'll never get a job in the FAI! :D

Even Pineapple passed on that juicey bait ;)

[Mr A]

(b) there's more than the Premier Division.

Outrageous statement! There's the premier and nothing else. The sooner this messy business of promotion and relegation is dispensed with and a 6 team premier is formed the sooner Irish Senior football will realise its true potential.

[John83]

Outrageous statement! There's the premier and nothing else. The sooner this messy business of promotion and relegation is dispensed with and a 6 team premier is formed the sooner Irish Senior football will realise its true potential.
Six team? Everyone knows that the only way forward is a Premier division consisting of Bohs, Derry, Cork and Rovers playing each other twelve times a season.

[Rovers fan]

:confused: What u on about man?

:eek:

[dcfcsteve]

Pushing five years on the board and you still haven't cottoned on to sarcasm yet?!

It's a twin-pack offering with you getting a personality.... :D

[dcfcsteve]

Take 10 teams with averages of 1500, and 2 teams with averages of 500. Overall average - 1333. Those bottom two teams get relegated, so we now have 10 teams, all of whom suffer a drop to 1400.

How does this work ? If we're down to 10 teams, each of which have an average of 1,500, then that makes the league-wide average 1,500 - not 1,400 :confused:

[Mr A]

The point is that although every one of the ten teams has dropped 100 of their crowd, the average for the top league has increased because two teams with lower crowds went down.

So the premier division average can be pretty meaningless.

Personally I think the league wide average is much more important.

[pineapple stu]

How does this work ? If we're down to 10 teams, each of which have an average of 1,500, then that makes the league-wide average 1,500 - not 1,400 :confused:
Did you actually read my post?

[oriel]

I'd say we'll probably have the lowest attendance in the PD this year.
Rovers,Cork,Derry and Dundalk will probably have the best crowds come the end of the year,followed by Bohs,Pats and Drogheda.
Then you got Sligo and Galway who will be around the same as each other.
Then we'll be there behind sligo and galway

I think Cork still have the potential to be the highest crowd, followed by Derry, their one team* large populations will have helped - maybe Bray wont finish last in attendances, i`d say this place will be reserved for the side who spends most time in that position. It may not be yourselves.

Also you made a good point earlier about the ten team lge, most if not all home games are now decent crowd pullers, for eg and I dont mean any offence with this, only Bray + Galway (travel distance would be a huge factor for away support) and possibly Sligo - although I`m not sure with them, would be the only games that Dundalk might struggle to get a really decent big crowd up to see. All others are definite crowd pullers.

It certainly beats playing first div sides with practically zero away support.

Then again form is the key in all of this, as mentioned many times on here before, Irish fans are so fickle and will drop their own team at the slightest sign of any poor results compared to a mid table Lge 2 side in the UK for eg.


*Institue hardly count

Stu - when do you think you can pull up week one figs, has all the usual bikering ended for this week ?

[pineapple stu]

Stu - when do you think you can pull up week one figs, has all the usual bikering ended for this week ?
As per earlier in the thread, I wasn't going to bother until after week 2 on the basis that we can all read. :)

I'll pull together the estimate ranges now sure, and draw some "conclusions" from that. That should re-start the bickering.

By popular demand so -

PREMIER DIVISION
Bohs - N/A (2008 - 1,993; 2007 - 1,924; 2006 - 1,463; 2005 - 1,976; 2004 - 2,340) (missing Cork 2)
Bray - 2,800 (1,106; 1,200; 1,027; 1,550; 818 FD) (Range for the game of 2500 to 4000)
Cork - N/A (3,142; 2,897; 2,941; 3,644; 4,033)
Derry - 3,100 (3,363; 2,614; 3,229; 2,698; 1,672) (missing Cobh 2)
Drogheda - N/A (1,631; 1,919; 1,751; 1,682; 1,554) (missing Pat's 2)
Dundalk - 4,500 (1,459 FD; 1,406 FD; 1,078 FD; 474 FD; 591 FD) (Have always taken the figure from their website, for right or wrong)
Galway - N/A (1,393; 2,199; 1,148 FD; 566 FD; 571 FD)
Pat's - 2,300 (1,795; 1,910; 1,342; 1,599; 1,882) (missing Cork 2, Derry 2 and Galway 2)
Rovers - N/A (1,468; 1,715; 1,089 FD; 1,539; 1,349)
Sligo - 2,000 (1,960; 1,448; 1,806; 1,794 FD; 781 FD) (Range of 1700 to 2300)

FIRST DIVISION
Athlone - N/A (387; 670; 421; 316; 291)
Harps - N/A (1,607 PD; 1,164; 428; 1,347 PD; 1,106)
Kildare - 353 (241; 243; 265; 186; 298)
Limerick - N/A (517; 670; 364; 669; 188)
Longford - 600 (406; 885 PD; 681 PD; 1,004 PD; 1,131 PD)
Mervue - 650 (N/A)
Monaghan - N/A (177; 292; 204; 183; 182)
Shels - 1,077 (986; 888; 1,690 PD; 1,949 PD; 2,158 PD)
Sporting Fingal - N/A (688)
UCD - 220 (546 PD; 663 PD; 546 PD; 653 PD; 306)
Waterford - 620 (670; 1,181 PD; 915 PD; 1,513 PD; 1,753 PD)
Wexford - N/A (767; 810)

Premier Division average - 2,940 (1,746; 1,687; 1,535; 1,759; 1,853)
First Division average - 587 (641; 722; 570; 520; 512)

Overall average - 1,656 (1,221; 1,235; 1,070; 1,195; 1,218)

[dcfcsteve]

Did you actually read my post?

Yes. Any danger of a proper response.....?

[John83]

Yes. Any danger of a proper response.....?
Clearly the numbers are too big for you to deal with.

Imagine a division with two teams, Derry and UCD, with an average crowd of 1800 or so. UCD get relegated, Cork replacing them. The next year, the crowd average is 1801. Yay! The division average is up! Everything is better forevermore. All praise to the FAI!

[pineapple stu]

Yes. Any danger of a proper response.....?
It's in my post steve. Seriously, read it. You misquoted it. It's remedial level maths; nothing more.

Edit - OK, I'll bite. :rolleyes:




Take 10 teams with averages of 1500, and 2 teams with averages of 500. Overall average - 1333. Those bottom two teams get relegated, so we now have 10 teams, all of whom suffer a drop to 1400.

How does this work ? If we're down to 10 teams, each of which have an average of 1,500, then that makes the league-wide average 1,500 - not 1,400
Now. There's the two posts side by side for you. You said "If we're down to ten teams, each of which have an average of 1500". I, however, in my ten-team model noted explicitly that the ten teams "all [...] suffer a drop to 1400" for this example.

Do you see how reading it might have helped?

[4 in a row]

Rovers had 3,500 at the 1st game in Tallaght:p

[oldyouth]

Rovers had 3,500 at the 1st game in Tallaght:p
I'm sure there will be additional commandos scaling the walls.

[passinginterest]

I'm sure there will be additional commandos scaling the walls.

Judging by the spikes on top of said walls they wouldn't want to value their limbs too highly.

[pete]

I would expect average in the Premier to be over 2000 this season as every club expect Drogs should be able to beat that number over the course of the season.

[pineapple stu]

I would expect average in the Premier to be over 2000 this season as every club expect Drogs should be able to beat that number over the course of the season.
Even though only two of them managed it last year?

[tippex]

I would expect average in the Premier to be over 2000 this season as every club expect Drogs should be able to beat that number over the course of the season.

Pete I wouldnt be banking on us too much. Crowd numbers is one thing I have never been able to understand with bray.
Take last week for example Rovers had a huge crowd with them and we had a very healthy home support but I can almost guarantee that within the next few home games that our home support will drop (It always does) it is a huge frustration when you consider where Bray is, the size of the town and the size of its catchment area.

my mate lives less than 10 mins away from the ground and came along to the leeds friendly last season but the goon just couldnt be arsed coming to any more games at this stage I've given up trying to get him back. Although I might suggest that I bring is young fella next week and maybe he will wreck his head enough to get his dad to come along.

[ndrog]

I would expect average in the Premier to be over 2000 this season as every club expect Drogs should be able to beat that number over the course of the season.

Yeah because drogs are the worst supported club in the entire leauge are they :confused: WUM.

[pete]

Even though only two of them managed it last year?

Yup. Looking to get FAI job ;)

I think Dundalk, Galway (if they can win a few games) & Shamrock Rovers can get above 2000. Bohs just below it last year but maybe Rovers hype with Tallght might indirectly boost numbers? Bray will rely on some big local crowd like last weeks to boost averages.

Anyway its all just speculation & can really only jugde at end of season as usually get boost at the start.

[Dodge]

7 pages on 11 games.

We're in for a long, long thread...

[JC_GUFC]

I'm sure a few Pat's fans would have a better idea but judging by the 2nd half of Pat's v Galway at the end of last season I'd say there were about 800 at the game.

[WexCar]

Around 800 at the wexford - waterford game. Bad weather ain't helping matters.

[exiled_gufc_fan]

1,426 in Terryland according to extratime.ie match report.

[Hitman]

3,410 at the Cross, but you can probably start adding Davin O' Neill to that as it doesn't look like Doonil has any intention of ever letting him play.

[The Lep]

Sporting Fingal V U.C.D.

666.
On friday the 13th as well :eek:

[dcfcsteve]

Sporting Fingal V U.C.D.

666.
On friday the 13th as well :eek:

And Bealzebub's two favourite teams playing as well !

Head for the hills people.......:D

[dcfcsteve]

It's in my post steve. Seriously, read it. You misquoted it. It's remedial level maths; nothing more.

Edit - OK, I'll bite. :rolleyes:


Now. There's the two posts side by side for you. You said "If we're down to ten teams, each of which have an average of 1500". I, however, in my ten-team model noted explicitly that the ten teams "all [...] suffer a drop to 1400" for this example.

Do you see how reading it might have helped?

I read it smart-hole - it just doesn't make sense :rolleyes:

12 teams in a league : 10 with average individual attendances of 1,500, 2 with 500 average attendance. If you cut out the two teams with a 500 attendance, you're left with - err, 10 teams with a 1,500 attendnace each. Which would give a league-wide attendance of 1,500 - not 1,400.

:confused:

[dcfcsteve]

Clearly the numbers are too big for you to deal with.

Imagine a division with two teams, Derry and UCD, with an average crowd of 1800 or so. UCD get relegated, Cork replacing them. The next year, the crowd average is 1801. Yay! The division average is up! Everything is better forevermore. All praise to the FAI!

This is a good answer.

Sadly, it's for a question other than the one I asked.

Stu can answer for himself without you holding his hand.... :)

[Magicme]

Official attendance was 330 at our game but I think there were alot more than that. Think it was 450 or so. Stand was pretty much full and loads standing near the fence.

[Lamper.sffc]

Sporting Fingal V U.C.D.

666.
On friday the 13th as well :eek:

Is that a bad OMEN:eek:

[L37Ultra]

526 was the official attendance at the Limerick-Mervure game.

[pineapple stu]

I read it smart-hole - it just doesn't make sense :rolleyes:

12 teams in a league : 10 with average individual attendances of 1,500, 2 with 500 average attendance. If you cut out the two teams with a 500 attendance, you're left with - err, 10 teams with a 1,500 attendnace each. Which would give a league-wide attendance of 1,500 - not 1,400.

:confused:

:rolleyes:

But I explicitly said that the teams with 1500 drop to 1400 for the second season, giving the anomoly that in season 2, every team in the league has reduced crowds, but the average has gone up.

[John83]

This is a good answer.

Sadly, it's for a question other than the one I asked.
Sadly, it's not.


Stu can answer for himself without you holding his hand.... :)
Yes he can. I was assuming you're just not bothering to read his posts carefully rather than just unable to read.

[stann]

Around 800 at the wexford - waterford game. Bad weather ain't helping matters.

Reckon that's close alright WexCar. A bit disappointing maybe for the first home game and a local derby, but what an atrocious night! You wouldn't put a cat who was actually really a bit of a **** and deserved everything it got out in it.

[Buile Shuibhne]

Official attendance was 330 at our game but I think there were alot more than that. Think it was 450 or so. Stand was pretty much full and loads standing near the fence.



Agreed - that was my own guesstimate, before Magicme texted me the 'official' figure.


This whole thread is built on foundations of sand.

[The Lep]

Is that a bad OMEN:eek:

How the DEVIL should i know? :D

[Schumi]

Sporting Fingal V U.C.D.

666.

I thought that sounded a bit high but I'll avoid the usual away fan in Belfield, 100 there, mostly away fans line.

[Youths4Ever]

official attendance from Wexford v Waterford was 780

[Terry]

dont know where extratime.ie got those attendance figures as there was none announced last night (first time in years), but the attendance was more like 1800-1900 IMHO.

[Lamper.sffc]

I thought that sounded a bit high but I'll avoid the usual away fan in Belfield, 100 there, mostly away fans line.

While still making usual away fans line

The stand holds 800 was aproximately 3/4 full and there is room for more fans standing down to the left. I thought it was around the 600 mark myself.

[gordongekko]

but the attendance was more like 1800-1900 IMHO.


rubbish

[WindmillWarrior]

Drogs v Bray around 1,500

A little more i would have said. 1750 approx!