Darron Gibson

[Greenbod]

The same one Johnny will be in the return at Old Trafford. They might even sit beside each other. :D You will get a chance to see Darron at Wembley though.

We also have the hugely talented Steven Reid and somebody else who is player of the season for the richest club in Manchester. Both are badly missed in our central midfield.


If a player doesn't want to play with us, then we don't "have" him.

[kingdomkerry]

Steven Davis (24) and Damien Johnson (30) have approx 300 senior League appearances between them, around 200 of them in the EPL.
During his 150-odd senior League Appearances, Sammy Clingan (25) has worked his way up to being one of the best midfielders in the Championship. His club (Norwich) rejected a bid for him by Fulham at Xmas.
Between them they have 100 caps.

Gibson, who has made (I think) the grand total of 1 start in the EPL, would be competing with Grant McCann and Michael O'Connor for a central midfield place in the event of two of the above being injured/unavailable.


Rugby? Cricket? Hockey? Oh, you mean "Republic of Ireland"...
Ah right, that must be it: Davis, Clingan & Johnson were worried they wouldn't get a place ahead of the likes of Keith Andrews, never mind Darron Gibson.

Reminds me of a conversation on this Board from a couple of years back, where somebody pointed to Paul McShane's striking out and leaving Man Utd for a Championship club as "proof" that he was a better Centre Back than Jonny Evans, who opted to stay and fight for his place at OT.

Still, I bet Evans is glad he didn't elect to play for the ROI, eh, since he'd never get a place in that line-up? In fact, I expect he feels a bit embarrassed at having just signed a piffling five year contract on quadrupled wages for MU, prior to representing them in the Champions League against Inter in the San Siro next Tuesday.

I wonder what position Gibson will be playing that night? ;)

Who, who and who? Sorry I genuinely never heard of either of those players.

Never heard of Grant McCann either. As for Michael O'Connor he only decided to play for the B team when he was told he was surplus to requirements with the Ireland A team.

Why are you having a go at Kieth Andrews. He's the find of the premier league this season.

Dont be spouting crap about your pub team up north having better players than the Ireland team.

Duff
McGeady
Ireland (not available yet I know)
Stephen Reid (also not available before you feel the need to point it out)
Gibson
Whelan
Hunt

Thats an unbelievable squad of midfielders.

Whats frightening is there is better younger players on the way!

[Razors left peg]

Who, who and who? Sorry I genuinely never heard of either of those players.

Never heard of Grant McCann either. As for Michael O'Connor he only decided to play for the B team when he was told he was surplus to requirements with the Ireland A team.

Why are you having a go at Kieth Andrews. He's the find of the premier league this season.

Dont be spouting crap about your pub team up north having better players than the Ireland team.

Duff
McGeady
Ireland (not available yet I know)
Stephen Reid (also not available before you feel the need to point it out)
Gibson
Whelan
Hunt

Thats an unbelievable squad of midfielders.

Whats frightening is there is better younger players on the way!

By the time the next qualifiers come around that will be by far our best area of the pitch.... Gibson, Ireland, Garvan, Whelan, O Toole,McCarthy, Gleeson,Fahey,Steven Reid, Andy Reid,Andrews all in center midfield... If half the young players full fill their potential it is a mouth watering prospect

[DeLorean]

You will get a chance to see Darron at Wembley though.

I'm sure Evans has his Final place nailed as well to be fair

[kingdomkerry]

By the time the next qualifiers come around that will be by far our best area of the pitch.... Gibson, Ireland, Garvan, Whelan, O Toole,McCarthy, Gleeson,Fahey,Steven Reid,Andrews all in center midfield... If half the young players full fill their potential it is a mouth watering prospect

Dont forget marc wilson id say if not a centre back he'll develop in to a fine midfielder.

[Razors left peg]

Dont forget marc wilson id say if not a centre back he'll develop in to a fine midfielder.

And there is bound to be someone else that we wouldnt think of right now.... just like no one would have said Andrews this time last year

[Stuttgart88]

In fairness Clingan is a bit of a Kenny Cunningham - not a big club player but took to international football like a duck to water. I've heard he has been exceptional at times for Norwich this season.

Funny thing is, that just shows what we've been missing. We don't need a world beating midfield, just a competitive one, one that can hold its own. NI's midfield has certainly done that in the last couple of years. We might just be getting there but it's been a long 5 years.

On paper our emerging CM options are really encouraging, it's just that how many times have young Irish players just not made it for one reason or another? Sadlier, Thornton...Stokes?

Speaking of which, where is youngirish these days?

[paul_oshea]

he got suspended and i dont think he came back...

[EalingGreen]

The same one Johnny will be in the return at Old Trafford. They might even sit beside each other. :D You will get a chance to see Darron at Wembley though.

MU turned down £8m for Evans from another EPL club at the start of the season, at the same time as Gerard Pique, frustrated at not getting games, was sold to Barca, where he is firmly established as CB in the starting XI, getting called up by Spain last week.
At the same time, Gibson turned down a loan to Peterborough United of League One (Fergie Sr. doing Fergie Jr. a favour?), because he couldn't agree personal terms.

Gibson is doing OK at OT and given time, might develop into a useful squad player. But whilst that's highly creditable, there is no sign he'll get any further.
Whereas Evans is firmly established as 3rd choice CB behind Ferdinand and Vidic (i.e. ahead of O'Shea, Brown or Neville) and has been publicly identified by Ferguson as their successor.


We also have the hugely talented Steven Reid and somebody else who is player of the season for the richest club in Manchester. Both are badly missed in our central midfield.
So what you're saying is that if the two Stephens were available, Gibson wouldn't get a look-in in the ROI midfield?
That's hardly different from what I'm saying i.e. if Davis, Johnson and Clingan were available, Gibson* wouldn't get a look-in in the NI team, either

* - Assuming he wanted etc etc

[Razors left peg]

So what you're saying is that if the two Stephens were available, Gibson wouldn't get a look-in in the ROI midfield?
That's hardly different from what I'm saying i.e. if Davis, Johnson and Clingan were available, Gibson* wouldn't get a look-in in the NI team, either

* - Assuming he wanted etc etc

Do u honestly believe those 3 players are in the same class as Steven Reid and Steven Ireland???

[EalingGreen]

Who, who and who? Sorry I genuinely never heard of either of those players.

Never heard of Grant McCann either.
I'd say that says more about you than it does about them...:eek:

As for Michael O'Connor he only decided to play for the B team when he was told he was surplus to requirements with the Ireland A team.

Except O'Connor hasn't been playing for NI recently, either. My point was that if Gibson had opted for NI, even in the absence of our three first choice CM players, he still wouldn't be guaranteed a place ahead of the likes of O'Connor and McCann in our starting XI.


Why are you having a go at Kieth Andrews. He's the find of the premier league this season.

Not having a pop at Andrews - fair play to the guy for taking his chance at Ewood. What I would say is that were he from NI, he wouldn't have got a look-in to our starting XI before this season. Nor has he done enough so far this season to "leap-frog" the three incumbents (imo).


Dont be spouting crap about your pub team up north having better players than the Ireland team.

I don't think I've ever claimed that our "pub team" (charming as ever, btw) has better players than the ROI. Rather, my contention is that our players have often "overperformed", whereas yours have often "underperformed".
This includes our Central Midfield, where whatever you think of Davis, Clingan and Johnson's club record (significantly more accomplished than Gibson's, btw), in their combined 100 caps, they have regularly performed to a level far in advance of anything we've yet seen from Gibson, at either club or international level.


Duff
McGeady
Ireland (not available yet I know)
Stephen Reid (also not available before you feel the need to point it out)
Gibson
Whelan
Hunt

Thats an unbelievable squad of midfielders.

Er, we're talking about Gibson, who is a Centre Midfielder, so Duff, McGeady and Hunt are irrelevant. More particularly, we're discussing whether Gibson would get a game for NI, had he opted to stay with us. My contention is that he wouldn't (at least until he's done significantly more in his club career)
As for Ireland and S.Reid, if they were available to Trapattoni, Gibson almost certainly wouldn't get a game for ROI, so I fail to see how your citing them supports your argument - quite the contrary, in fact.


Whats frightening is there is better younger players on the way!
Bully for you! But now you mention them, what relevance do they have to assessing whether Gibson is of international calibre (ROI or NI) or not? :confused:

[EalingGreen]

By the time the next qualifiers come around that will be by far our best area of the pitch.... Gibson, Ireland, Garvan, Whelan, O Toole,McCarthy, Gleeson,Fahey,Steven Reid, Andy Reid,Andrews all in center midfield... If half the young players full fill their potential it is a mouth watering prospect
In which case, Gibson may struggle to gain many more international caps.
Just like he would have, had he stuck with NI...;)

[EalingGreen]

In fairness Clingan is a bit of a Kenny Cunningham - not a big club player but took to international football like a duck to water. I've heard he has been exceptional at times for Norwich this season.

Funny thing is, that just shows what we've been missing. We don't need a world beating midfield, just a competitive one, one that can hold its own. NI's midfield has certainly done that in the last couple of years.
Spot on, S88.

As for Gibson, from what I've seen/heard, whilst he's been by no means bad for ROI, and it's not for me to disparage Trap's selections(!), neither has he been an aforesaid "duck to water", either.

Which may explain why his inclusion in the ROI's starting XI has not received universal approval from your fans?

[EalingGreen]

Do u honestly believe those 3 players are in the same class as Steven Reid and Steven Ireland???
No, especially Ireland, (although if Steven Davis can fulfill the potential he displayed as a kid at Villa, at 24 he could imo go on to be better than Reid).

Anyhow, all I was saying is that unless or until his club career moves up a level, Gibson would not get into the NI Centre Midfield ahead of them.

[Razors left peg]

No, especially Ireland, (although if Steven Davis can fulfill the potential he displayed as a kid at Villa, at 24 he could imo go on to be better than Reid).

Anyhow, all I was saying is that unless or until his club career moves up a level, Gibson would not get into the NI Centre Midfield ahead of them.

I get what you are saying but Gibson to me looks like his is developing into a very good player.His progress at United this season has been excellent

[ifk101]

Funny thing is, that just shows what we've been missing. We don't need a world beating midfield, just a competitive one, one that can hold its own. NI's midfield has certainly done that in the last couple of years. We might just be getting there but it's been a long 5 years.

Central midfield is, without doubt, a problem area for us. I think we have plenty of options but we haven't found the right balance/partnership for the centre in Steven Reid's absence.

NI's results speak for themselves. A comparison of Stan's competitive record shows that he amassed more points that Nigel Worthlesston was capable of doing in the same number of games. If we are to believe EG, NI's team has a strong spine - ie central defence, central midfield, strikers. Unfortunately for his assertion, the results suggest otherwise. It's also hard to know if NI's midfield was competitive under Sanchez as the midfield was invariably by-passed with long balls up to Lafferty.

[geysir]

No doubt if Gibson was NI eligible, the OWC would be purring at the prospect of a hope that he could come into their team and assist that bunch of over performers out of their destined (overperformed), 'odds on' 5th place, just ahead of San Marino.

[third policeman]

That's hardly different from what I'm saying i.e. if Davis, Johnson and Clingan were available, Gibson* wouldn't get a look-in in the NI team, either

* - Assuming he wanted etc etc

The jury may be out on Gibson, but I think its pretty clear what Johnson and Clingan are - Journeymen!!. Davis is a bit of an enigma, looked promising at Villa, anonymous and ineffectual at Fulham and a decent performer for Rangers, but there again Liam Miller looked like a worldbeater in the SPL.

[Gather round]

Evening all.

So far in this series, our best outfield players have been Biggles McCartney (left back) and McCann in either centre or left midfield. The centre backs have been OK. It's worth saying that McCann has outshone Brunt from two divisions higher- the most skillful individuals don't always fit in an effective team. That said, and for all Grant's goalscoring against the village teams, in an ideal World I'd rather have a ManU player in his position ;)

Jonny Evans- the Champions' League's ambassador to NI- has been hot and cold in our games. He looked ropey against Slovenia, at fault for goals and lucky not to be sent off.

Geysir- I feel more confident having at least avoided the banana skin in SMR. A Euro-worth of your kronor says we scrape fourth place?

[The Fly]

EG -

I agree with you on young Evans - a fantastic young player. He is one of the best young centre-halfs I've seen in quite some time. I only wish he played for us, I'd take him in a heartbeat. He is as you rightly say ahead of Gibson in the pecking order at MU, comparatively speaking. He is now third choice at centre back and is, as you say, better than O'Shea, Neville and Brown.

Gibson is obviously further down the pecking order in his own area of the pitch. Carrick, Scholes, Giggs, Anderson, Fletcher and Hargreaves are all ahead of him. Gibson though, is ahead of Possebon - his rival out of the MU youth sides. However there is a difference here, in comparison to Evans.

Scholes and Giggs will most likely be gone at the end of next season. Hargreaves is suffering from long-term injury. Fletcher, while useful, is only an above average squad player. Carrick and Anderson have both developed into very good players, both exceeding my expections of them. However neither player is, to use that much over-used word, 'great,' nor will either one ever be a truly great player. In conclusion, I suppose neither player represents any kind of insurmountable obstacle or daunting challenge for any talented young player, like Darron, hoping to break into the first team.

This is in contrast to Evans, who although now third choice and a fantastic prospect, does face having to dislodge either Ferdinand or Vidic - and that ain't gonna happen. I see the Ferdinand/Vidic partnership remaining at MU, barring serious injury of course, for at least the next 3 seasons.

In that respect Evans' challenge is greater than Gibson's. :p

[Stuttgart88]

Central midfield is, without doubt, a problem area for us. I think we have plenty of options but we haven't found the right balance/partnership for the centre in Steven Reid's absence.

NI's results speak for themselves. A comparison of Stan's competitive record shows that he amassed more points that Nigel Worthlesston was capable of doing in the same number of games. If we are to believe EG, NI's team has a strong spine - ie central defence, central midfield, strikers. Unfortunately for his assertion, the results suggest otherwise. It's also hard to know if NI's midfield was competitive under Sanchez as the midfield was invariably by-passed with long balls up to Lafferty.Interesting.

It's funny what's perceived as success I suppose. Then again, a win over Spain, a win a draw against Sweden & Denmark, and whatever else they got (can't actually remember) are damned good results. Quality not quantity. Certainly if you brush their bad results under the carpet their better results were better than our better results (what good results?) but you can't get anywhere in these groups without accumulating points against the likes of Georgia, Montenegro and Cyprus (oh, how our media & some here have been moaning), or Iceland and Lithuania(?).

I do agree with Geysir in that I suspect that if Gibson was still playing for NI EG's glass would be more than half-full rather than its current nearly empty state. He certainly looks like a player well capable of cutting it in the top flight, now or in due course. Even if this is not at United it's hardly a bad indictment.

[Gather round]

Fly- I know there's a recession on, but probably ManU are planning to splash EU 20 million on a new centre back/ solid midfielder as we speak. And Vidic (or his agent) fancies working on the suntan in Spain. Hard to say what'll happen to the fringe players.

S88- success for us is challenging credibly up to and including the last game (of 12 last time). So Euro 08 was a limited success. I'm assuming your rather higher test of success is qualifying. In the longer term- last 10-15 years- we've both clearly been pretty unsuccessful.

[Irish_Praha]

Scholes and Giggs will most likely be gone at the end of next season. Hargreaves is suffering from long-term injury. Fletcher, while useful, is only an above average squad player. Carrick and Anderson have both developed into very good players, both exceeding my expections of them. However neither player is, to use that much over-used word, 'great' nor will either ever will be a truly great player. In conclusion, I suppose neither player represents any kind of insurmountable obstacle or daunting challenge for any talented young player, like Darron, hoping to break into the first team.


As things stand these are all very valid points but ..



Fly- I know there's a recession on, but probably ManU are planning to splash EU 20 million on a new centre back/ solid midfielder as we speak. And Vidic (or his agent) fancies working on the suntan in Spain. Hard to say what'll happen to the fringe players.


I made this point earlier in the thread. Scholes and Giggs may well be on the way out and the remaining competition is very good but not world class. However, ManU are English/European/World club champions with a very large transfer budget. Gibson won't end up in the team by default and if he doesn't perform to a certain expected level they can easily bring in a few top class midfielders. It can be that he will be given more of a chance to prove himself before they splash out the cash though, which is a good thing. Only time will tell if he is up to the challenge.

[Razors left peg]

As things stand these are all very valid points but ..





I made this point earlier in the thread. Scholes and Giggs may well be on the way out and the remaining competition is very good but not world class. However, ManU are English/European/World club champions with a very large transfer budget. Gibson won't end up in the team by default and if he doesn't perform to a certain expected level they can easily bring in a few top class midfielders. It can be that he will be given more of a chance to prove himself before they splash out the cash though, which is a good thing. Only time will tell if he is up to the challenge.

He cant really do much more than he is doing at the moment to be fair, man of the match at the weekend and some good performances in the carling cup.At least the lad seems to be able to step up and take his chances when they are being given. Something I dont ever remember Liam Miller doing in a Man United shirt for example

[kingdomkerry]

Fly- I know there's a recession on, but probably ManU are planning to splash EU 20 million on a new centre back/ solid midfielder as we speak. And Vidic (or his agent) fancies working on the suntan in Spain. Hard to say what'll happen to the fringe players.

S88- success for us is challenging credibly up to and including the last game (of 12 last time). So Euro 08 was a limited success. I'm assuming your rather higher test of success is qualifying. In the longer term- last 10-15 years- we've both clearly been pretty unsuccessful.

Yes the measure of success is qualifying for tournaments and how well a team does when they get there.

But to to say both have been pretty unsuccessful is wrong. Were you watching euro 88, italia 90, usa 94 and korea/japan 02. Ireland were never far away from qualifying for the competitions in between.

NI will never qualify for a world cup IMO. An All Ireland team is what is needed where protestant and catholic and others can unite behind one very successful team.

[EalingGreen]

A comparison of Stan's competitive record shows that he amassed more points that Nigel Worthlesston was capable of doing in the same number of games.
And against the same calibre of opponent? I'd be grateful if you posted the respective records of SS and NW.

If we are to believe EG, NI's team has a strong spine - ie central defence, central midfield, strikers. Unfortunately for his assertion, the results suggest otherwise.
Broadly correct (in bold), but the team as a whole hasn't been helped by the change of manager nor, more importantly, the fact that Healy has gone off the boil since his (incredible) run of 13 goals in 12 Euro Qualifiers.

It's also hard to know if NI's midfield was competitive under Sanchez as the midfield was invariably by-passed with long balls up to Lafferty.
Balls. The whole point about NI under Sanchez was that they played a pressing game, not a long ball game. As such, it was imperative that the midfield "got in the faces" of their opponents at every opportunity. They were invariably hugely effective when doing so at Windsor, but struggled to do so away from home. And Lafferty didn't even play half the games Sanchez was in charge.

[Fergie's Son]

I think Gibson is doing well in an incredibly competitive environment. I would be comfortable saying that he has a career as a centre midfield player at the Premiership level. Perhaps not for United but for a prem-level team.

And EG, fact is NI haven't really be close to qualifying in some time. They do tend to show up at the odd big game but then they struggle against marginal opposition. Would it be safe to say that they are already out of the running for 2010?

[EalingGreen]

No doubt if Gibson was NI eligible,
I think you'll find that Gibson is/was eligible for NI. :rolleyes: (The question was whether he was also eligible for ROI.)

the OWC would be purring at the prospect of a hope that he could come into their team
Assuming he was committed to playing for the international he team he first represented, then I'm sure most NI fans would be pleased to have him available to the squad - increased competition and all that.
But I still don't see that his progress to date would make him more than 4th or 5th choice for one of our two centre midfield spots.
Of course, he may well improve significantly in the next year or two, but so, I imagine, will Davis and Clingan and if Johnson has better luck with injuries than he's endured over the last couple of years, then that will almost be like acquiring a new player.
Anyhow, the anger in OWC over Gibson's defection has subsided somewhat over the last year or two, not least because we've seen that Gibson is actually closer to "Naughty Boy" than "Messiah"! ;)

assist that bunch of over performers out of their destined (overperformed), 'odds on' 5th place, just ahead of San Marino.
When his "assistance" for ROI on the field is still somewhat limited, I fail to see how Gibson could do very much for NI from the bench...:rolleyes:
As for the rest, Que sera sera...

[EalingGreen]

The jury may be out on Gibson, but I think its pretty clear what Johnson and Clingan are - Journeymen!!. Davis is a bit of an enigma, looked promising at Villa, anonymous and ineffectual at Fulham and a decent performer for Rangers, but there again Liam Miller looked like a worldbeater in the SPL.
Whether "Journeymen" or "Enigma", I personally wouldn't swap any of them for Gibson and nor, I'm sure, would many of my fellow NI fans.
Of course, Gibson is still young and so may develop into an excellent player. Then again, that's what many people said about, ahem, Liam Miller at the time Ferguson signed him for MU...;)

[Gather round]

But to to say both have been pretty unsuccessful is wrong. Were you watching euro 88, italia 90, usa 94 and korea/japan 02. Ireland were never far away from qualifying for the competitions in between

You agree the test of success is qualification, so qualifying for one tournament of the last seven clearly isn't successful, eh?


An All Ireland team is what is needed where protestant and catholic and others can unite behind one very successful team

Zzzz.

[kingdomkerry]

You agree the test of success is qualification, so qualifying for one tournament of the last seven clearly isn't successful, eh?



Zzzz.

No but qualifying for 4 out of eight is'nt too bad considering they 88 was our first.

[EalingGreen]

EG -

I agree with you on young Evans - a fantastic young player. He is one of the best young centre-halfs I've seen in quite some time. I only wish he played for us, I'd take him in a heartbeat. He is as you rightly say ahead of Gibson in the pecking order at MU, comparatively speaking. He is now third choice at centre back and is as you say better than O'Shea, Neville and Brown.

Gibson is obviously further down the pecking order is his own area of the pitch. Carrick, Scholes, Giggs, Anderson, Fletcher and Hargreaves are all ahead of him. Gibson though, is ahead of Possebon - his rival out of the MU youth sides. However there is a difference here, in comparison to Evans.

Scholes and Giggs will most likely be gone at the end of next season. Hargreaves is suffering from long-term injury. Fletcher, while useful, is only an above average squad player. Carrick and Anderson have both developed into very good players, both exceeding my expections of them. However neither player is, to use that much over-used word, 'great' nor will either ever will be a truly great player. In conclusion, I suppose neither player represents any kind of insurmountable obstacle or daunting challenge for any talented young player, like Darron, hoping to break into the first team.

This is in contrast to Evans, who although now third choice and a fantastic prospect, does face having to dislodge either Ferdinand or Vidic - and that ain't gonna happen. I see the Ferdinand/Vidic partnership remaining at MU, barring serious injury of course, for at least the next 3 seasons.

In that respect Evans' challenge is greater than Gibson's. :p
A lot of sense there, Fly.

As regards Gibson, I guess what I'm saying is that as young MU prospects go, he's clearly no Beckham, Scoles, Giggs, or Gary Neville etc.
Tbf, he's likely got a bit more about him than, say, Liam Miller, Paul Mcshane or Frazier Campbell.
Most likely he'll fall somewhere in between - e.g. a Darren Fletcher, or John O'Shea.
Which is no shame whatever; as such, he'll make a very sound acquisition for ROI and will be a loss for NI.

I daresay we'll live with that loss, mind, unlike if it were Evans, for instance.

[Wexford Delboy]

simple fact if he wasnt startin 2 impress this thread wouldnt be gettin so much attention

[EalingGreen]

NI will never qualify for a world cup IMO.
I can live with that. If qualification for World Cups etc was the "be all and end all" of being a fan, I'd support Brazil or somesuch, but I never had any time for Gloryhunters...


An All Ireland team is what is needed where protestant and catholic and others can unite behind one very successful team.
Yawn.

[tricky_colour]

Yes the measure of success is qualifying for tournaments and how well a team does when they get there.

But to to say both have been pretty unsuccessful is wrong. Were you watching euro 88, italia 90, usa 94 and korea/japan 02. Ireland were never far away from qualifying for the competitions in between.

NI will never qualify for a world cup IMO. An All Ireland team is what is needed where protestant and catholic and others can unite behind one very successful team.

Given that NI have qualified for the World Cup twice and indeed reached the quarter finals twice, to say they will never qualify for the world cup seem rather unfair.

[EalingGreen]

Given that NI have qualified for the World Cup twice and indeed reached the quarter finals twice, to say they will never qualify for the world cup seem rather unfair.
Thrice, actually - 1958, 1982 and 1986 (though you were right about twice getting to the Qtr Finals, or equivalent - 58 and 82) :)
We've also won more games than ROI when we got there and topped our Group in 1982, as well.

[ifk101]

And against the same calibre of opponent? I'd be grateful if you posted the respective records of SS and NW .

Staunton
Germany (a) 1-0,
Cyprus (a) 5-2,
Czech Rep. (h) 1-1,
San Marino (h) 5-0,
San Marino (a) 1-2,
Wales (h) 1-0,
Slovakia (h) 1-0,
Slovakia (a) 2-2,
Czech Republic (a) 1-0,
Germany (h) 1-1,
Cyprus (h) 1-1.

11 competitive games – 16 points.

Worthlesston
Liechtenstein (h) 3-1,
Latvia (a) 1-0,
Iceland (a) 2-1,
Sweden (a) 1-1,
Denmark (h) 2-1,
Spain (a) 1-0,
Slovakia (a) 2-1,
Czech Republic (h) 0-0
Slovenia (a) 2-0
San Marino (h) 4-0
San Marino (a) 0-3

11 competitive games - 14 points

You can't really disregard the comparison here EG because both teams have played San Marino twice (6 points) whilst NI has had the added bonus of playing Liechtenstein. And let's not forget, both Denmark and Spain fielded weakened teams against NI.

As bad as Stan was, results state that he's better than Nigel Worthlesston. :D


Balls. The whole point about NI under Sanchez was that they played a pressing game, not a long ball game. As such, it was imperative that the midfield "got in the faces" of their opponents at every opportunity. They were invariably hugely effective when doing so at Windsor, but struggled to do so away from home. And Lafferty didn't even play half the games Sanchez was in charge.

Pressing game :D. Send long balls in behind the opposition's defence and close them down. We've seen it all before - call it long ball football, direct play or pressing. In absence of Lafferty, NI did play with another target man, no?

Anyways getting back to main topic of discussion, I think Gibson has a long way to go before he is a regular at international level for us. But given NI's poor list of results under Worthlesston, I'm sure Gibson would have gotten plenty of chances to play for NI by now. Managers do try to change the team around when results aren't going to plan - if they have the option(s) to do that. ;)

[Stuttgart88]

I think you'll find that Gibson is/was eligible for NI. From one pedant to another, surely the fact is that he is no longer eligible for NI.

[Gather round]

And let's not forget, both Denmark and Spain fielded weakened teams against NI

Given that Denmark has a playing pool three or four times bigger than ours, and that they needed to win the game to retain an outside chance of qualifying, I suspect that any 'weakness' in their team was hardly deliberate or deserving of much sympathy.

As for Spain, their side looked strong enough to me. I suspect they took the game pretty seriously, what with already having been embarrassed by us and all.

Did Nigel Worthington steal your pint, or what? :)

[EalingGreen]

Staunton
Germany (a) 1-0,
Cyprus (a) 5-2,
Czech Rep. (h) 1-1,
San Marino (h) 5-0,
San Marino (a) 1-2,
Wales (h) 1-0,
Slovakia (h) 1-0,
Slovakia (a) 2-2,
Czech Republic (a) 1-0,
Germany (h) 1-1,
Cyprus (h) 1-1.

11 competitive games – 16 points.

Worthlesston
Liechtenstein (h) 3-1,
Latvia (a) 1-0,
Iceland (a) 2-1,
Sweden (a) 1-1,
Denmark (h) 2-1,
Spain (a) 1-0,
Slovakia (a) 2-1,
Czech Republic (h) 0-0
Slovenia (a) 2-0
San Marino (h) 4-0
San Marino (a) 0-3

11 competitive games - 14 points

You can't really disregard the comparison here EG because both teams have played San Marino twice (6 points) whilst NI has had the added bonus of playing Liechtenstein. And let's not forget, both Denmark and Spain fielded weakened teams against NI.

As bad as Stan was, results state that he's better than Nigel Worthlesston.


"Lies, Damned Lies and Statistics". I couldn't be arsed going through individual results and performances etc, but if you genuinely consider that Steve Staunton is/was a "better" manager than Worthington*, then I think you should go and lie down in a darkened room for a while.

P.S. When Denmark came to Windsor, they were on the same points as NI i.e. still in with a chance of qualifying.

P.P.S. Of the Spain players who beat NI 1-0 (with a deflected shot, btw), every one was with a Primera Liga or EPL team, with seven of them going on to play in the final vs Germany. Not what I'd call "weak"...

* - Nigel or his missus...



Pressing game. Send long balls in behind the opposition's defence and close them down. We've seen it all before - call it long ball football, direct play or pressing.
Er, "Pressing" is when you push up on the opposition and compact them, "long ball" is where draw them in and stretch them. In so far as they compare, they are contradictory...:rolleyes:



In absence of Lafferty, NI did play with another target man, no?

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. For example, when we beat Denmark, we had Feeney and Healy up front - both 5'8" - plus two orthodox wingers in Gillespie and Brunt. Considering Denmark's two CBs and Keeper were all 6'3" or above, it would have been madness to attempt to play "long ball" against them with that line-up. :rolleyes:



Anyways getting back to main topic of discussion, I think Gibson has a long way to go before he is a regular at international level for us. But given NI's poor list of results under Worthlesston, I'm sure Gibson would have gotten plenty of chances to play for NI by now. Managers do try to change the team around when results aren't going to plan - if they have the option(s) to do that. ;)
And I'm sure he wouldn't. But what do I know - I only watch them play, after all...

[geysir]

DARRON GIBSON TO START IN CARLING CUP FINAL (http://www.football.co.uk/manchester_united/manchester_uniteds_darron_gibson_to_start_against_ spurs_in_carling_cup_final__rss60139.shtml)
It just gets better and better for Darron. Just reward for his evident progress in Man U's premier squad as well as his hard work and obviously his sound decision not to accept a loan move to a team below championship level.

[DeLorean]

Evans is rightly getting recognition as he has been a vital part of the United team in their record breaking run. He has played exceptionally well in very big games eg.v Chelsea. How Gibsons impact is even being compared to his is farcical, at this stage. Ok performances at best in the Carling Cup games against Derby and a decent performance against the same opposition in the FA Cup. He got motm but in reality it was obviously Giggs who was the best player on the pitch and without his goal I don't think Gibson would have even been a contender. Who even picked it anyway, probably Setanta!! Having said that he did well enough under not such demanding circumstances. The demanding circumstnces came for Ireland against Cyprus and Poland and he was awful, or have people forgotten this already because of a couple of goals against Southampton and Derby. Andrews had a far bigger impact for us than Gibson that's the fact of the matter. I hope he turns out to be a great player but I think there's a lot of unjustified hype about him at the moment. The fact that Fergie see's something in him is the most positive thing he has going for him imo and not on what he's done on the pitch, yet.

[EalingGreen]

Evans is rightly getting recognition as he has been a vital part of the United team in their record breaking run. He has played exceptionally well in very big games eg.v Chelsea. How Gibsons impact is even being compared to his is farcical, at this stage. Ok performances at best in the Carling Cup games against Derby and a decent performance against the same opposition in the FA Cup. He got motm but in reality it was obviously Giggs who was the best player on the pitch and without his goal I don't think Gibson would have even been a contender. Who even picked it anyway, probably Setanta!! Having said that he did well enough under not such demanding circumstances. The demanding circumstnces came for Ireland against Cyprus and Poland and he was awful, or have people forgotten this already because of a couple of goals against Southampton and Derby. Andrews had a far bigger impact for us than Gibson that's the fact of the matter. I hope he turns out to be a great player but I think there's a lot of unjustified hype about him at the moment. The fact that Fergie see's something in him is the most positive thing he has going for him imo and not on what he's done on the pitch, yet.

Sums it up perfectly (imo).

[ifk101]

"Lies, Damned Lies and Statistics". I couldn't be arsed going through individual results and performances etc, but if you genuinely consider that Steve Staunton is/was a "better" manager than Worthington*, then I think you should go and lie down in a darkened room for a while.

No opinion. Just stating their respective records as you requested. ;)

But ultimately a manager is judged by his results, no? :D


And I'm sure he wouldn't. But what do I know - I only watch them play, after all...

So you'd cap Michael Gault before Gibson, for argument's sake?

[EalingGreen]

No opinion. Just stating their respective records as you requested. ;)

But ultimately a manager is judged by his results, no?
No, managers are (or should be) judged on competence. Results will eventually reflect a manager's competence, but only when taken in context (ability of available players, standing on taking over, quality of opponents, level of expectations etc), and over a reasonable period of time.
Imo, the jury is still out on Worthington, whereas it was clear Staunton was a Muppet by the time of his second game in charge.


So you'd cap Michael Gault before Gibson, for argument's sake?
No, absolutely not. Unless in unique circumstances (e.g. Mannus as 3rd choice keeper), I personally wouldn't have IL players anywhere near the team.
NW set out with a policy of selecting from the widest possible pool of talent, hence some early IL selections. Experience seems to have taught him better since, mind.

P.S. Michael Gault's only NI appearance (possibly as a "shop window" for a move to GB) was as a 70th minute sub in a 4-1 friendly victory over (ahem) Georgia. By the time Gault came on, we were already 3-1 up and coasting...

[The Fly]

Barely Legal - people's comments about young Gibson on this thread are hardly falling under the 'unjustified hype' umbrella. They are merely reflecting a general optimism with his progress as a player, which in turn only benefits us. There is nothing wrong with that.

The lad has potential, that much is plain to see. IMO, he will prove to be a very valuable player for us. Much more so than Andrews and Whelan, no disrespect intended to either player.

[DeLorean]

Barely Legal - people's comments about young Gibson on this thread are hardly falling under the 'unjustified hype' umbrella. They are merely reflecting a general optimism with his progress as a player, which in turn only benefits us. There is nothing wrong with that.

The lad has potential, that much is plain to see. IMO, he will prove to be a very valuable player for us. Much more so than Andrews and Whelan, no disrespect intended to either player.

I hope you are right of course. I think his level of performance overall is being overrated, that's all. The grounds for optimism as far as I'm concerned come from the fact that he seems to be in Fergies plans a little bit and not from his actual performances. When he actual starts playing well I will get a bit more excited about him but I haven't seen much of it so far but hopefully it's not far off. I'm just glad that it looks like he might be tested at United instead of Ireland cos another no show in Italy/Bulgaria like against Cyprus/Poland and we'd be in big trouble. We already have one passenger in Whelan.

[geysir]

No opinion. Just stating their respective records as you requested. ;)

But ultimately a manager is judged by his results, no? :D
Well, in NI the criteria is not so strict or as crude as all that, remember the Sammy McIlroy era?

[Razors left peg]

he came on for Carrick in tonights game against Fulham...... although for our Northern friends Evans came on as a sub 7 minutes earlier so he is obviously the better prospect;)

[Hibernian]

He came on when 3-0 to be fair but had a half decent shot on goal and also I taught he spread the ball around pretty well. Its good to see him getting some game time anyway and hopefully he gets better and better...

I for one still think he has lots to prove but i think if Ferguson lets him play in the centre there signs for me that this guy could do decent job when he gets more game time.