Darron Gibson

[Stuttgart88]

Work and International and Your Country, don't go in the same sentence with me....They just did.

[paul_oshea]

What did Gibson not do that Trap told him to do? Where are you coming from with this?

We are talking about a manager disrespecting and leveling personal insults at one of their workers. The worker has decided enough is enough and will not work with this manager again.

You said "work with". I work with someone who is on the same level as me. You don't work with someone who is above you or lets say in this case the manager, a manager who has years of experience and wisdom beyond your time on Earth, you work for him/her(should this be s/he?).

Some people are more delicate than others. If any of its true Trap certainly shouldn't have called him fat, or grabbed him in training, but surely players should be a bit more thick skinned.

[Irwin3]

You said "work with". I work with someone who is on the same level as me. You don't work with someone who is above you or lets say in this case the manager, a manager who has years of experience and wisdom beyond your time on Earth, you work for him/her(should this be s/he?).

Some people are more delicate than others. If any of its true Trap certainly shouldn't have called him fat, or grabbed him in training, but surely players should be a bit more thick skinned.

Disagree. You're thinking too much in the hierarchical sense. You can work with anyone no matter what level they are on. It is the act of doing work together.

[Irwin3]

I take it all back.

This poster also continually said after the euros that Gibson would not return. He was surprised when Trap called him up for Serbia and then Kazakhstan and Germany as he knew that Gibson had no intention of answering the call.

[DeLorean]

Even if he is correct, I still think Gibson is being a baby. My God like, an old school manager grabbed him... grow a pair! We're a million miles apart on this so I'm happy to agree to never agree.

Out of curiosity, does this friend of a friend know whether Gibson wants to come back post-Trap? Can't see any reason why he wouldn't given that info.

[Grafter]

Wee Darn reminds me of General Zod but with more attitude:rolleyes:
http://www.blastr.com/sites/blastr/files/styles/content_panes_media/public/man-of-steel-trailer-zod.jpg?itok=kbRKjzYT

[geysir]

I haven't seen any silly quotes from Gibson on the matter. Trap has been quite generous in his reference to Gibson and his exile, and Gibson has said little if anything. Trap gave Gibson plenty of chances when he was cráp and fit to play, though when fit to play those games he still made Glenn Whelan look like Billy Whizz. Who knows what happened at the Euros, Trap is no fool and wouldn't be the type to be blackmailed by an aggrieved inflated ego into a selection decision.
No doubt Gibson would have received a string of caps - post Euros, now we have Wes, another technically gifted player, who held his counsel (not least when Green was selected ahead of him), to be given some opportunity.

[Irwin3]

Even if he is correct, I still think Gibson is being a baby. My God like, an old school manager grabbed him... grow a pair! We're a million miles apart on this so I'm happy to agree to never agree.

Out of curiosity, does this friend of a friend know whether Gibson wants to come back post-Trap? Can't see any reason why he wouldn't given that info.

The issue is with the current manager. He'd been playing for Ireland for 9 years beforehand so I'm not sure why he wouldn't return if a new manager came in.

Another source said this after the euros:

“Right now, Darron doesn’t know where he stands with [Giovanni] Trapattoni. He loves playing for Ireland but the manager doesn’t seem to believe in him.”

Grabbed is maybe the wrong word as it implies aggressiveness. I think it was more a case of someone trying to embarrass someone else by giving them a pinch and intimating that they are too fat. Why would you want to play for someone who showed you such a complete lack of respect.

[DannyInvincible]

At least Trap didn't try plucking a hair from the back of Darron's head!

[ArdeeBhoy]

Again people add 2 and 2 together. And get a thousand.

Who really knows? Or even cares about two eejits, apparently as stubborn as each other...

[DeLorean]

At least Trap didn't try plucking a hair from the back of Darron's head!

Stephen Ireland started receding from the front back, that could be seen as the major difference between the two.

[Sullivinho]

He'll announce his availability as soon as Trap is out the door. A middle finger send-off.

[SkStu]

Given that most of us live in real life, I'm surprised that the analogies being used in the boss/worker illustration are so far off the mark... Posters say most people just put up with a boss they don't like and just get on with things. No they don't. They continuously look for a new job or boss that will respect them and their value and will leave when they find this. And that is even more so the case with Generation Y'ers. Validate my existence or I'm outta here! What Darron has done is essentially the same reaction as you would see from most of his peers across multiple professions.

Do I think it is the right reaction? No way. Is Darron 100% at fault? No way. As ArdeeBhoy says, him and Trap are both idiots.

[DeLorean]

They continuously look for a new job or boss that will respect them and their value and will leave when they find this

Yeah but they stick it out until they do find it, that's the point really. Obviously in Gibson's case this would have been sticking it out until the 74 year old Trap inevitably leaves himself.

[Charlie Darwin]

The worker-boss analogy doesn't work on any level.

Lots of people don't like their boss but they like their job more, or they like the money/prestige/whatever. Playing for your country is a voluntary activity so the only thing keeping him there is his pride in playing for his country. If the sources are correct, Gibson is more concerned with being told he's great than playing for his country. Which is fine - a lot of players take very little pride in representing their nation and there are plenty of players, like Hoolahan, who are willing to take the knocks in the hope of one day taking their chance.

[paul_oshea]

If you take it to maslows hierarchy of needs, we work solely for physiological needs first and foremost, we provide for ourselves, shelter and security by working and getting paid for the work. Our money is what gives us this, we put up with what we have to. That doesn't mean we don't ignore or look for other work necessarily but we put up with what we have to, to secure our most basic needs. Darron does this playing for Everton. Take the example of playing for your country, rightly pointed out CD it is a voluntary act, and is the pride in playing for country, representing your country,is the love of your country great enough as the most basic physiological need? Probably not, but it should be close. There aren't any real higher accolades in life an individual can achieve. Even if that was solely for the adornation of ones people.

Maybe we on here, or me just have this sense of patriotism that others don't have, least of all some of our footballers.

[Charlie Darwin]

Paul O'Shea busting out the organisational theory. Can anybody top that? :D

[paul_oshea]

Just looking at the 5 blocks in the pyramid there it looks all wrong, but that was definitely how I learnt it. :D

Actually wiki as always is mis-leading :D " In the absence of economic safety – due to economic crisis and lack of work opportunities – these safety needs manifest themselves in ways such as a preference for job security"...

[Irwin3]

The worker-boss analogy doesn't work on any level.

Lots of people don't like their boss but they like their job more, or they like the money/prestige/whatever. Playing for your country is a voluntary activity so the only thing keeping him there is his pride in playing for his country. If the sources are correct, Gibson is more concerned with being told he's great than playing for his country. Which is fine - a lot of players take very little pride in representing their nation and there are plenty of players, like Hoolahan, who are willing to take the knocks in the hope of one day taking their chance.

You are ridiculous. Why do you feel the need to use childish names 'prissy little bitch' and make up superfluous baseless nonsense.

Gibson showed plenty of pride playing for his country from 2003-2012. I don't remember him kicking up a fuss or demanding to start games during that time. He was also surrounded be abuse from our wee friends as well for doing so.

Hoolahan...

[DeLorean]

Paul O'Shea busting out the organisational theory. Can anybody top that? :D



I don't think I can top it but maybe if we see a professional footballer as a 'product' instead of a person with physio and psychological needs.


Footballer Life Cycle.


http://symkt.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/plc1.gif


Introduction - Darron was a raw talent intent on escaping the clutches of Northern Ireland for his beloved Republic.

Growth - Good old Trap gave him some competitive international appearances even though we rarely saw him for Man Utd.

Maturity - He finally realised he was never going to break into the United side and left for first team football at Everton.

Decline - After a couple of months of first team football Darron got ideas above his station. An international exile coincided with weight gain and hair loss.

[Irwin3]

Another mature, well-reasoned post.

[Charlie Darwin]

You are ridiculous. Why do you feel the need to use childish names 'prissy little bitch' and make up superfluous baseless nonsense.
I'm not making up anything. I'm making a judgement based solely on the sources you've quoted.


Gibson showed plenty of pride playing for his country from 2003-2012. I don't remember him kicking up a fuss or demanding to start games during that time. He was also surrounded be abuse from our wee friends as well for doing so.

Hoolahan...
Surrounded by abuse... at his home in Manchester? And the notoriously Unionist city of Derry? He got a bit of abuse on Twitter but every interview he's given suggest he wasn't remotely bothered by it. I don't remember him demanding to start games, but then again I don't remember him ever making a compelling case when he was given an opportunity.

[geysir]

I don't think I can top it but maybe if we see a professional footballer as a 'product' instead of a person with physio and psychological needs.


Footballer Life Cycle.


http://symkt.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/plc1.gif


Introduction - Darron was a raw talent intent on escaping the clutches of Northern Ireland for his beloved Republic.

Growth - Good old Trap gave him some competitive international appearances even though we rarely saw him for Man Utd.

Maturity - He finally realised he was never going to break into the United side and left for first team football at Everton.

Decline - After a couple of months of first team football Darron got ideas above his station. An international exile coincided with weight gain and hair loss.

Strangely enough, that mirrors the DeLorean life cycle.

[Irwin3]

I'm not making up anything. I'm making a judgement based solely on the sources you've quoted.


Surrounded by abuse... at his home in Manchester? And the notoriously Unionist city of Derry? He got a bit of abuse on Twitter but every interview he's given suggest he wasn't remotely bothered by it. I don't remember him demanding to start games, but then again I don't remember him ever making a compelling case when he was given an opportunity.

You said "Gibson is more concerned with being told he's great than playing for his country.". This is unadulterated bs. Hide behind saying your judgement has led you to say that all you want. You've made it up.

There is a club called Manchester United that has a few fans of a certain persuasion. Gibson once played for this club. You would even have caught a whiff of it now and again from certain Everton supporters as well. Then there is that lovely team that sings songs such as 'if you hate Darron Gibson clap your hands'. Gibson is guaranteed to receive abuse of these people forever whether it be to himself directly or not. It surrounds his public identity.

[DeLorean]

Strangely enough, that mirrors the DeLorean life cycle.

The 'Decline' part is uncanny.

[Charlie Darwin]

You said "Gibson is more concerned with being told he's great than playing for his country.". This is unadulterated bs. Hide behind saying your judgement has led you to say that all you want. You've made it up.
Some poetic license at work. My point was that he's more concerned with his own status within the squad than the opportunity to continue representing his country. He feels he has been personally slighted, assuming your sources are correct, and to him it is more important to make a stand over that than to continue wearing the green shirt as similarly overlooked squad members have.


There is a club called Manchester United that has a few fans of a certain persuasion. Gibson once played for this club. You would even have caught a whiff of it now and again from certain Everton supporters as well. Then there is that lovely team that sings songs such as 'if you hate Darron Gibson clap your hands'. Gibson is guaranteed to receive abuse of these people forever whether it be to himself directly or not. It surrounds his public identity.
I'm sure there are a few fans of those clubs of that persuasion. I'm just sceptical that he's found himself surrounded by these people in the calm environs of rural Cheshire (or wherever he lives, perhaps your source knows). I doubt he's been to many Northern Ireland games in recent years either. I'm sure he gets the odd bit of misdirected abuse but I wouldn't have him down as a martyr either.

[third policeman]

[QUOTE=Charlie Darwin;1690329]Some poetic license at work. My point was that he's more concerned with his own status within the squad than the opportunity to continue representing his country. He feels he has been personally slighted, assuming your sources are correct, and to him it is more important to make a stand over that than to continue wearing the green shirt as similarly overlooked squad members have.


Well none of us actually know what Gibson thinks, but his treatment during the Euros was shocking and exposed Trap at his most obdurate and capricious. Not picking our most in-form midfielder during a succession of games where we were overrun and outplayed suggests that the manager is either completely deranged or trying to make some point at Gibson's expense. Not picking Gibson was not a slight against Gibson it was an act of wanton arrogance and disregard for the team, the supporters and the nation. Under these circumstances I can well understand Gibson's decision. It's the same reason that many many fans have stopped going to games, and they haven't been slighted either.

[Charlie Darwin]

Well none of us actually know what Gibson thinks, but his treatment during the Euros was shocking and exposed Trap at his most obdurate and capricious.
"A source" seems to know what he's thinking.


Not picking our most in-form midfielder during a succession of games where we were overrun and outplayed suggests that the manager is either completely deranged or trying to make some point at Gibson's expense. Not picking Gibson was not a slight against Gibson it was an act of wanton arrogance and disregard for the team, the supporters and the nation. Under these circumstances I can well understand Gibson's decision. It's the same reason that many many fans have stopped going to games, and they haven't been slighted either.
No. Our most in-form midfielder was Andrews. Then Hoolahan and McCarthy, who weren't in the squad. Then, finally, Gibson. I personally think he should have played ahead of Whelan and come on instead of Green, but I don't think it warrants the sort of hysterical reaction you've displayed above. It was a fairly marginal call and Gibson lost out due to his relative shortage of experience and his patchy record in terms of actually turning up for friendlies where the likes of Green and Whelan have become more familiar with the systems and what is expected of them.

[Irwin3]

"A source" seems to know what he's thinking.


No. Our most in-form midfielder was Andrews. Then Hoolahan and McCarthy, who weren't in the squad. Then, finally, Gibson. I personally think he should have played ahead of Whelan and come on instead of Green, but I don't think it warrants the sort of hysterical reaction you've displayed above. It was a fairly marginal call and Gibson lost out due to his relative shortage of experience and his patchy record in terms of actually turning up for friendlies where the likes of Green and Whelan have become more familiar with the systems and what is expected of them.

The source quote was published by the Derry Journal after the euros. I see no reason to question it.

Our most in-form midfielder was someone who was in and out of the West Brom team. Followed by someone in and out of the Norwich team. Right. McCarthy and Gibson have been the two best Irish CM for the last 18 months. No contest really.

Green had been playing RB for Derby and was Trap's 6th choice CM going into the euros yet he somehow managed to usurp Gibson for the sub role. Something went badly wrong. The noise before the euros was that Gibson might break into the starting lineup and that Trap had been spending a lot of one-on-one time with him. Gibson played the full 90 vs. Bosnia and 25 vs. Hungary. Green got 5 vs. Hungary following his late call up. Gibson has more caps than Green, PL and CL experience. Marginal call...

[Charlie Darwin]

Andrews wasn't in and out of anything - he played every game. Hoolahan was rotated depending on what tactics Lambert was using. Gibson was playing well for his new club. Green was not playing right back for anybody. He didn't "usurp" Gibson for "the sub role" - he was brought on for the final ten minutes in a match we were losing 3-0, presumably for his energy and relative quickness compared to other options in the middle.

[Irwin3]

You're even disputing facts now. Andrews started 8 out of 15 games for West Brom (1 out of the last 5) and Green played RB and RM for Derby. Trying to justify Green coming on is hilarious. I'm not sure I've seen anyone attempt it, even those who don't rate Gibson and vehemently disagree with his stance but I've seen it all now.

[Charlie Darwin]

You're right, I was wrong about Andrews. Green was playing midfield for Derby - if he played RB it was as emergency cover. I'm not justifying bringing Green on, I'm just saying the logic was fairly clear. We were being completely overrun and Green is quick and energetic, if limited, as he showed against Sweden.

[SkStu]

Charlie. You're approaching ridiculous...

[Irwin3]

After returning from injury Green started 28 games for Derby. 10 at RB and 18 at RM so he didn't even play CM at all that season bar 1 sub appearance for Derby and 2 for Ireland. Any way you spin it and whatever the circumstances, deciding to play Green in CM ahead of Gibson is the opposite of logic.

[SwanVsDalton]

Trap, notoriously capricious and often illogical. It's pretty difficult to determine a pecking order with the likes of Gibson, Green, McCarthy, Hoolahan at some point last summer based on a guy who appears to pick his starting strikers (barring Robbie) out of a hat.

Fraid I don't have any truck with Darron defenders. Being hard done by is having your reputation tarnished through mangled English and misunderstanding (Long, Wilson, McCarthy) not throwing an international career risking strop because you didn't get five minutes at the end of a Spain thrashing.

Worth bearing in mind the current manager made Gibson a key squad figure at a time when most Irish fans thought he was a joke.

[geysir]

The source quote was published by the Derry Journal after the euros. I see no reason to question it.
The DJ printed a quote from a source about Darron's feelings after the Euros. There was nothing sensational or revealing in the quote, most everybody knew that Gibson was 'unhappy'.
Who wasn't unhappy btw?
Since then he has gone into exile, Trap has called him into the squad a number of times. Trap is stubborn about a lot of things but on this matter he has been prepared to let bygones be gone, just like he has after McClean and others had their tantrums.

[Charlie Darwin]

Charlie. You're approaching ridiculous...
What would Gibson have offered in those final ten minutes?

[Irwin3]

The DJ printed a quote from a source about Darron's feelings after the Euros. There was nothing sensational or revealing in the quote, most everybody knew that Gibson was 'unhappy'.
Who wasn't unhappy btw?
Since then he has gone into exile, Trap has called him into the squad a number of times. Trap is stubborn about a lot of things but on this matter he has been prepared to let bygones be gone, just like he has after McClean and others had their tantrums.

Is there some kind of point or question in here somewhere? Why have you quoted me?

[geysir]

Is there some kind of point or question in here somewhere? Why have you quoted me?
Normally one quotes a post or part of a post, when one is replying to it.
You appeared to suggest there was something of significance to the 'source close to Darron' quote from the Derry Journal after the Euros, afair there isn't anything of significance.
But if you can provide a link, I'll be happy to reconsider.

[Irwin3]

Really. Well if that's the case then you would know that my post was in response to Charlie Darwin saying, sarcastically perhaps that ""A source" seems to know what he's thinking." I haven't added any significance at all to it. It is what it is.

[Charlie Darwin]

I wasn't being sarcastic. I had rather assumed that "a source" was either Darron or his agent, as they usually are in these cases.

[Irwin3]

Fair enough. Either way I was simply clarifying where that quoted source came from.

[geysir]

Really. Well if that's the case then you would know that my post was in response to Charlie Darwin saying, sarcastically perhaps that ""A source" seems to know what he's thinking." I haven't added any significance at all to it. It is what it is.

Then what is it? AFAIR, it was a nothing quote after the Euros from a source close to Darron.
According to the Derry Journal, a source close to Gibson said that while the midfielder enjoyed playing for his country, he was uncertain of his place in the squad.
“It’s not as if the team was winning games," the source told the Derry Journal. "He felt he could contribute but the shame was, he didn’t get a chance.
“Right now, Darron doesn’t know where he stands with [Giovanni] Trapattoni. He loves playing for Ireland but the manager doesn’t seem to believe in him.

[Irwin3]

Yes, I posted that earlier. What is your problem?

[SkStu]

What would Gibson have offered in those final ten minutes?

Ball retention.

[Charlie Darwin]

Ball retention.
Who would he have passed it in order to retain the ball, James McClean?

[SkStu]

If you're being completely overrun what will calm things down better? Someone who can receive the ball and find a pass or a headless chicken with the touch of a rapist?

[Charlie Darwin]

Neither?

[SkStu]

No. Darron Gibson.

[geysir]

Yes, I posted that earlier. What is your problem?
I just like to make sure of the distinction, between a quote that a journalist gives some credence to and anonymous silly nonsense from a 'friend of a friend' source about how Trap almost raped Gibson, humiliated him and disrespected him.
And to think Gibson was a Man U player under Ferguson, once upon a time:)
Fwiw, Trap's comments about Gibson needing to work harder to get his place on the Man U team (which Gibson had a hissy fit about) were spot on and most every Man U fan thought so.
Right now, I don't put much value on Gibson's ability to take 'advice' in the spirit it was given. I can accept he has fallen out beyond repair with Trap. But on his falling out, I have zero sympathy with his decision and I don't hold Trap at all responsible for Gibson being in exile. In fact, Trap has done more that other managers would do by asking him again and again to reconsider his exile.
I certainly wanted to see Gibson start in the Euros after seeing him in the friendlies but it's an international funeral of his own making now.