Darron Gibson

[liamoo11]

I think gibson and mccarthy would give us a solid platform allowing us to keep the ball better. When u look at the russia game away and how our centre mids absolutely failed to pass the ball and keep possesion it is hard to not feel that continuing with that pairing will bring similiiar problems in the summer.Its all very well to see andrews and whelan making last ditch tackles and blocks but if u have better players who can keep the ball and be more mobile than certainly whelan then why not play them? That is in no way to disrespect whelan and andrews or to ignore their huge efforts for us.

[Olé Olé]

I think gibson and mccarthy would give us a solid platform allowing us to keep the ball better. When u look at the russia game away and how our centre mids absolutely failed to pass the ball and keep possesion it is hard to not feel that continuing with that pairing will bring similiiar problems in the summer.Its all very well to see andrews and whelan making last ditch tackles and blocks but if u have better players who can keep the ball and be more mobile than certainly whelan then why not play them? That is in no way to disrespect whelan and andrews or to ignore their huge efforts for us.

That's all well and good to say Ireland should hold onto possession but the reality is that Xavi, Iniesta and Modric are far superior players to Gibson and McCarthy in that respect and the chances of them out-playing those world class players is unlikely. Andrews and Whelan would offer a better degree of security, I think.

[liamoo11]

That's all well and good to say Ireland should hold onto possession but the reality is that Xavi, Iniesta and Modric are far superior players to Gibson and McCarthy in that respect and the chances of them out-playing those world class players is unlikely. Andrews and Whelan would offer a better degree of security, I think.

Fair enough. I think though gibson, mccarthy play that defensive role at their clubs and have the discipline to bring the security to the side as well as their passing ability. It would be different if we were putting forward holahan and reid to play centre mid.

[Irwin3]

Individually, Gibson and McCarthy are defensively as good as if not better than Andrews or Whelan (this is my overall opinion backed up by tackling/interception figures - obviously subjective). They both usually play as DM/anchormen for their clubs with the added bonus that they both keep possession better than Andrews/Whelan. The only real advantage that Whelan and Andrews have is international experience and familiarity with the other players (maybe 'mentality' too). In Trap's world only Gibson has a chance of breaking up the partnership and this is pretty slim since Gibson's injuries mean he hasn't played for us since the Croatia game.

[mark12345]

Andrews and Whelan would offer a better degree of security, I think.


Ya think. You cannot be serious? Whelan, Andrews and security in the same sentence just don't go.
I have to admit that I have been Whelan's biggest critic, largely because of his lack of mobility. But credit where it's due, he has looked quite adept with the ball in
recent weeks. Still the combination of him and Andrews is miles below international standard. One of the two of them has to be left out. It should be either Whelan-Gibson or Gibson-McCarthy. I can't see Andrews really fitting in anywhere.

[Irish_Praha]

Interesting debate this, each player has his backers and knockers and good arguments for and against (looking at other threads too). I think you can't under rate experience so one of Andrews or Whelan should be starting with one of Gibson or McCarthy.
At the moment neither of Gibson and McCarthy are miles ahead of the more experienced two so I probably wouldn't be up for starting them together. Maybe it is a partnership to consider for the future and if they do end up on the pitch together due to subs or injury we will see how well they play together. They say the best CMF partners should compliment eachother but I really can't make my mind up on this one as it seem Trap always wants both to play the same role. None of the 4 is so much better than the others that he should be a sure starter. If the 4 are going to Poland all combinations of each pairing should be given at least half a game together, if there is time for that before the EC. Lets see if Gibson and McCarthy reall have improved over the last half season.

[Dunners]

Here we are at the door of a major football competition and were talking about how they (cm pairings) might compliment each other. The point is we should know the answer already but stubborn old Trap
has never used friendly games for what they are there for i.e. to try new players / partnerships / formations.

But like the Murphy’s I’m not bitter he has after all got us there.

[jbyrne]

Here we are at the door of a major football competition and were talking about how they (cm pairings) might compliment each other. The point is we should know the answer already but stubborn old Trap
has never used friendly games for what they are there for i.e. to try new players / partnerships / formations.


Trap tried a new formation in the last friendly. He dropped keane back a bit towards ctre mid. No point in trying these things unless you do so with the players who will start in Poland.

Trap has played many ctre mid partnerships over the last two years with a mix of andrews, whelan, gibson, green, foley and fahey.

he has also introduced many new players into the squad / team over the last few years.

[geysir]

Trap tried a new formation in the last friendly. He dropped keane back a bit towards ctre mid. No point in trying these things unless you do so with the players who will start in Poland.
If Trap did drop Robbie towards CM in the Czech game, I didn't notice it. At least I didn't notice Robbie have any effect on the game from CM or else it was all too subtle for me.

[AlaskaFox]

People seem to be forgetting that those aren't are guaranteed 4 CMs, Green has a good chance of going too.

[DeLorean]

People are really pairing Andrews and Whelan off as if they're one and the same thing. In my opinion Andrews is a far better player, he's more confident on the ball and more tenacious off it. Whelan's a good pro but offers very little. Andrews has done more than enough to merit his starting place. It baffles me to see people are saying that Gibson would do just as good a defensive job, he's slow moving and I've rarely seen him win a tackle (or even make one). Hopefully McCarthy will get his run in the next campaign.

[Serb]

I wasn't a big fan of Andrews at first, but he has really grown on me. I think he is the form player for both Ireland and West Brom at the moment, he works extremely hard in both defence and attack, even notching in a decent amount of goals this season (11, although 9 were for Ipswich in the Championship). He'd be my first choice CM for Ireland right now. I'm not a big fan of Whelan, but I think Andrews could be comfortably paired with any of McCarthy, Whelan or Gibson.

It's almost certainly going to be a pairing of Whelan and Andrews when the tournament rolls around, but I don't think any pairing of Whelan, Gibson, McCarthy or Andrews is going to be a match for Xavi / Fàbregas / Iniesta / any other Spanish international midfielder. I have a feeling the Spain game at least will be like the Russia -vs- Ireland game, backs to the wall stuff where everyone is playing as a defender.

[Irwin3]

People are really pairing Andrews and Whelan off as if they're one and the same thing. In my opinion Andrews is a far better player, he's more confident on the ball and more tenacious off it. Whelan's a good pro but offers very little. Andrews has done more than enough to merit his starting place. It baffles me to see people are saying that Gibson would do just as good a defensive job, he's slow moving and I've rarely seen him win a tackle (or even make one). Hopefully McCarthy will get his run in the next campaign.

All this shows is that you see what you want to see.

From PL games this season:
Gibson, 1.8 tackles + 1.7 interceptions per game.
Whelan, 2.1 tackles + 1.6 interceptions per game.
Andrews, 1.8 tackles + 1.2 interceptions per game.
McCarthy, 2.6 tackles + 1.8 interceptions per game.

Have you been watching Gibson play for Everton? He's even surprised the Everton fans who had no idea that he could play as a DM (with the added bonus of being able to keep possession and strike the odd beauty). From his 8 starts, Everton are not only unbeaten but have also only conceded 4 goals.

[tetsujin1979]

All this shows is that you see what you want to see.

From PL games this season:
Gibson, 1.8 tackles + 1.7 interceptions per game.
Whelan, 2.1 tackles + 1.6 interceptions per game.
Andrews, 1.8 tackles + 1.2 interceptions per game.
McCarthy, 2.6 tackles + 1.8 interceptions per game.

Have you been watching Gibson play for Everton? He's even surprised the Everton fans who had no idea that he could play as a DM (with the added bonus of being able to keep possession and strike the odd beauty). From his 8 starts, Everton are not only unbeaten but have also only conceded 4 goals.
where did you get those stats?

[Irwin3]

where did you get those stats?

whoscored.com

[Carrigaline]

Thought Gibson had a cracking game for Everton tonight in a deep-lying playmaker role retaining possession very well and making a lot of neat passes. When Sunderland were on the attack, he was quick to close down and get tackles in. McCarthy's place is looking to be in serious jepoardy by the looks of it. Andrews, Whelan and Fahey are the shoe-in's and Gibson on this kind of form can't really be ignored.

[Charlie Darwin]

I don't think Gibson was ever going to be ignored, even if he'd stayed at Old Trafford. I agree he is in terrific form though - the injury doesn't seem to have halted his momentum at all, barring a few sloppy passes tonight. Was unlucky to get booked in the first half too and maintained his discipline for the rest of the game.

[liamoo11]

he was class tonight. Owned the sunderland midfield which is fairly average i have to admit. Anyone sayin he does not show aggression, urgency or win tackles really is not been fair. He has an excellent range of passing and everton will make a massive profit on him and to my mind it is as good a piece of transfer business as mcclean is for sunderland. If gibson cost half a million and utd pay 15 million rodwell then Moyes is a genius

[Charlie Darwin]

I thought part of it was just that Sunderland were outmanned in midfield. Sessegnon and Bendtner rarely bother to drop back to help their midfield out, whereas Cahill and Jelavic work a lot harder.

[DeLorean]

All this shows is that you see what you want to see

If I just saw what I wanted to see, Gibson winning a countless amount of tackles and generally running the show. Why would you suggest otherwise?


From PL games this season:
Gibson, 1.8 tackles + 1.7 interceptions per game.
Whelan, 2.1 tackles + 1.6 interceptions per game.
Andrews, 1.8 tackles + 1.2 interceptions per game.
McCarthy, 2.6 tackles + 1.8 interceptions per game.

As I was typing my post I just knew there would be a statistician lurking with intent. Most stats mean very little to me and, to be honest, if these stats prove anything it's that none of the above are making enough tackles or interceptions.


Have you been watching Gibson play for Everton? He's even surprised the Everton fans who had no idea that he could play as a DM (with the added bonus of being able to keep possession and strike the odd beauty).

Well this is where I am going to have to come clean. I've seen very few of his games for Everton. I saw the game where they beat Chelsea 2-0 and he was ordinary enough but haven't seen much other than that. My assessment of him would have been more from his United/Ireland perfomances which may be a little bit unfair. All I know from the games I have seen is that Andrews makes life far more difficult for the opposition than Whelan and Gibson, and is much more inclined to look for possession. All the stats in the world won't convince me otherwise. That said, I hope Gibson is playing as well as you seem to think, and that he continues to improve. In fairness, I presume that goes for everybody, critics or otherwise.


From his 8 starts, Everton are not only unbeaten but have also only conceded 4 goals.

Like I say, I'm not a big stats man but at least it shows he's not a liability anyway.

[John83]

As I was typing my post I just knew there would be a statistician lurking with intent. Most stats mean very little to me and, to be honest, if these stats prove anything it's that none of the above are making enough tackles or interceptions.
Those are perfectly normal stats for central midfielders. A casual inspection of that site shows that Gibson is Everton's third most prolific tackler, Whelen is Stoke's second most prolific tackler, and McCarthy is fourth at Wigan on both counts. Of course, you know better.

[DeLorean]

Those are perfectly normal stats for central midfielders. A casual inspection of that site shows that Gibson is Everton's third most prolific tackler, Whelen is Stoke's second most prolific tackler, and McCarthy is fourth at Wigan on both counts. Of course, you know better.

Maybe they are, I wouldn't know because I don't inspect the statistics for each player too often. If I have watched a match I don't feel the need to, if I haven't I'd prefer to read a report on the game. As for your little dig at the end, I'm not sure what you're getting at? I already pointed out that I'm not a big believer in statistics, they are not totally worthless but they don't really give any clue as to the type of tackles or interceptions made. As for the stats you produced, if McCarthy makes more tackles than Whelan, but Whelan is Stoke's second highest tackler and McCarthy is only Wigan's fourth, does this just suggest that Wigan as a whole are forced into making a lot more tackles than Stoke? Their league positions would probably indicate that it does also. I'm not sure how this helps to guage a players attributes, more their teams circumstances as it's not like for like.

I thought I made it pretty clear that I didn't "know better" in relation to Gibson's Everton performances to date. As for the games I have seen him play, well yeah, I do think I know better than any statistics that will be produced, but it's only my opinion.

PS: In the bit you quoted above, I probably should have said 'indicate' instead of 'prove'. In fact, I definitely should have.

[geysir]

Gibson had a relatively quiet game against Chelsea but any other games I've seen him play for Everton, he's looked confident, assured and has oozed ability on occasion. The mid-season move has worked out well for him, probably he could not be in a better situation.

[elroy]

I think the good form shown by Gibson is obviously linked to regular football but I think the influence of a hands on manager like moyes can't be understated. He has a good record at getting the best out of players

[John83]

... As for your little dig at the end, I'm not sure what you're getting at? ...

PS: In the bit you quoted above, I probably should have said 'indicate' instead of 'prove'. In fact, I definitely should have.
That's what I was reacting to, yep. Well done spotting it - I have a lot of time for anyone who manages to figure out the source of a miscommunication instead of just arguing.

[DeLorean]

That's what I was reacting to, yep. Well done spotting it - I have a lot of time for anyone who manages to figure out the source of a miscommunication instead of just arguing.

I can only assume that's sarcasm, and patronising sarcasm at that...(is all sarcasm patronising??) Anyway, it's working as I do feel a bit stupid, but only because I'm not 100% sure if you are being sarcastic or not.

[Serb]

I can only assume that's sarcasm, and patronising sarcasm at that...(is all sarcasm patronising??) Anyway, it's working as I do feel a bit stupid, but only because I'm not 100% sure if you are being sarcastic or not.

I'm pretty sure he was being serious. Hugs all around!

[John83]

I can only assume that's sarcasm, and patronising sarcasm at that...(is all sarcasm patronising??) Anyway, it's working as I do feel a bit stupid, but only because I'm not 100% sure if you are being sarcastic or not.
Dead serious.

[DeLorean]

Ah very good, you'd really miss the thanks button at times like this.

[liamoo11]

Gibson played great today dont think he gave a ball away and showed a wider range of passing than usual which I suppose is a reflection of confidence from getting run of games. I think in a year he will be seen as the best central midfielder we have had since roy keane with the added advantage of been a far better passer of the ball but unlikely to ever have keanes amazing ability to cover the ground

[Closed Account]

23 premier league games unbeaten. Good to see him getting some acknowledgement. If he stays free of injury, he should cement his place in the Irish team in the near future. This summer is probably coming too soon for him, he doesn't look as fit as he could be. I'd like to see him develop into a Xabi Alonso style player.

And Xabi Alonso gave a insightful interview recently about tackling (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/nov/11/xabi-alonso-spain-england-interview), that may enlighten you DeLorean, that you don't have to be diving into tackles to play DM. The Czech game recently showed the folly of midfielders diving into tackles. Whelan and Andrews both dived in and ended up out of the game for the Baros goal.

[Charlie Darwin]

I remember that Alonso interview - very interesting perspective. Although it is obvious that Alonso is not the most natural tackler in the world in spite of his GAA background.

[DeLorean]

And Xabi Alonso gave a insightful interview recently about tackling (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/nov/11/xabi-alonso-spain-england-interview), that may enlighten you DeLorean, that you don't have to be diving into tackles to play DM

It was never my belief that you did.

[Closed Account]

It baffles me to see people are saying that Gibson would do just as good a defensive job, he's slow moving and I've rarely seen him win a tackle (or even make one).

It was never my belief that you did.
So, by deduction, to be defensive you have to be quick?

[DeLorean]

So, by deduction, to be defensive you have to be quick?

There are various types of defensive midfielders. Makelele used generally just hold his position, break up play and lay it off. Scott Parker would be an example of the more aggressive type, harrassing players and flying into blocks and tackles as you mention. Gibson never struck me as the type of player who would do either with any great success, so basically I was just comparing Andrews' attributes with Gibson's lack thereof. The recent reports from our fellow posters suggest I may have been wrong to rule Gibson out for this role, but as Johnny Giles always says..."we can only go on the evidence we have seen Bill".

[Charlie Darwin]

Gibson is more like Carrick - holds his position well and is disciplined but can generally be relied upon to make the tackle when needed. He's not an anchor in the Makelele mould or a grafter/harrier like Parker but he does bring his own qualities. I'm actually surprised by how well he's done in Everton's 4-4-2 because he strikes me as the kind of quarterback type who excels in a 4-3-3/4-5-1. It gives me hope that he can do the job for Ireland too, although I still think you'd need a striker like Cahill who will give it all in midfield too.

[Carrigaline]

www.football365.com/f365-features/7647335/Premier-League-Numbers-And-Stats...

Midfielder Darron Gibson has lost only one of his last 32 club games for Manchester United and Everton.That's an amazing statistic.

[Charlie Darwin]

Moyes is delighted with him but says he needs to step out of his comfort zone a bit.


There are still flaws to Gibson’s game – Moyes hinted there is a comfort zone he needs to vacate – but there are early signs that you can already file him into the 'polished gem’ section of transfer coups.

“I have always liked Darron and thought there was something there,” said Moyes. “It is going to take time and there is more to come. He probably needs a wee bit of the treatment as well.

"He will need to get whipped a couple of times. I am sure he has had that with his previous manager as well. We will try to get him to be a bit braver in a lot of the things he does.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/everton/9179253/Darron-Gibson-is-becoming-Evertons-lucky-mascot.html

[seanfhear]

It seems that Trap was right about Gibson i.e. that he needed to be playing regularly.

The piece where Moyes says that Darron must step out of his comfort zone and maybe needs a wee bit of the treatment would be something that Trap would concur with.

[geysir]

I suppose Trap would regard that as more of a mentality issue than a personality issue.

[seanfhear]

I suppose Trap would regard that as more of a mentality issue than a personality issue.I think Trap believed that Darron had ability and probably wondered why a player with his ability would not make the career move to play regularly.

From Darrons point of view he may have believed that he was good enough to make the breakthrough at utd or he may have known that the broad history of young players leaving utd generally does not have the success that would be expected. This is something that has surprised me over many years. You would think that say a player that may not be quite good enough to make it at an úber club (or others) like utd would have a good career elswhere.

I know there have been examples of where this (good football career) has happened but for whatever the reason this seems to be the exception rather than the rule.

[liamoo11]

Was class today looks super in that defensive role. Does not give ball away and keeps play going forward. Does have few kgs to shed. Interesting to see how a big pitch like wembley suits him. I think we will see a pretty impressive passing display from him next week. That fellani is such a frustrating footballer

[Olé Olé]

I'm liking the positivity in this thread now, nice reflection on his form. A read back through the thread would show a few who doubted Gibson's ability for the top level of English football. I think he's put that one to bed since January, and on a regular basis. Fingers crossed he keeps it up.

Regarding Trap's preference for the Whelan-Andrews combo, it's fairly transparent that Gibson and Andrews are the form pair (McCarthy and Ireland don't appear as options in Trap's view) in this department. It should be interesting to see how that translates to the international stage and whether Trap persists with the afore-mentioned coupling.

[Yard of Pace]

To add to the positivity, there is a short interview with Coleman and Gibson in the Sunday Times today. On Trap's infamous comments about him needing to move Gibson says "in hindsight, he was right". Which is great to hear because I took a bit of a dislike to the guy after he scoffed at the idea at the time.

[Charlie Darwin]

It's actually interesting to think. Gibson is the only player to have publicly challenged Trapattoni and not to have been left out of subsequent squads. I am convinced Trap saw his talent a long time ago and realised it was best served outside of Old Trafford, and he's afforded him more breaks than your Wilsons and your Stokeses as a result.

[seanfhear]

To add to the positivity, there is a short interview with Coleman and Gibson in the Sunday Times today. On Trap's infamous comments about him needing to move Gibson says "in hindsight, he was right". Which is great to hear because I took a bit of a dislike to the guy after he scoffed at the idea at the time.


It's actually interesting to think. Gibson is the only player to have publicly challenged Trapattoni and not to have been left out of subsequent squads. I am convinced Trap saw his talent a long time ago and realised it was best served outside of Old Trafford, and he's afforded him more breaks than your Wilsons and your Stokeses as a result.Good posts their guys. Its all good news for us at the moment. I would say that Darron may have more running ability than Whelan but from Traps point of view does he have the defensive discipline. Do Everton play 442 as if they did this would be a big plus for Darron with Trap. With Darrons performances and with McCarthy also doing well at Wigan itis good news to have 4 midfielders doing well. Touch wood that they all make it for the Euros.

[tricky_colour]

Gibson is on the bench today.

[Stuttgart88]

Cahill, Baines and Jelavic rested in advance of FA Cup semi-final according to SSN. Gibson also possibly.

Speaking of Jelavic, will he be in the Croatia team?

[Charlie Darwin]

He will be in the squad but will probably be on the bench as Olic is first choice striker.

Gibson is being rested. Moyes has been raving about him all week so he wouldn't be dropped. Bear in mind he's just back from an injury - two games in three days is a risk Moyes isn't prone to taking.

[tetsujin1979]

Duffy and Coleman on the bench too, Coleman just introduced: http://irish-abroad.appspot.com/Live