Darron Gibson

[Razors left peg]

Gibson will be a very good player for Ireland.

Who are u and what have u done with Yapster :)

[DeLorean]

I think people see what they want to see when it comes to Gibson. On the evidence of what I have seen so far, which is a considerable amount at this stage, Anderson is a far better player. Gibson is one paced and generally ineffective. He is a nice striker of the ball alright so produces the occasional quality pass or shot. Having said that his shot isn't nearly as good as he thinks it is either because he shoots from stupid positions at times. I don't think it's a good thing that he has the "confidence" to try a lob from 50 yards when a simple through ball is on to Rooney. I can't see him making it at United or International level. This will undoubtedly seem harsh to some and time will hopefully prove me wrong, but I think he's been somewhere between shocking and ordinary so far. I've seen most if not all of the matches he's been involved in, for both United and Ireland, and bar the odd glimpse of something good he generally dissappoints me. United and Ireland are both better when he's not playing.

[Murfinator]

I think people see what they want to see when it comes to Gibson. On the evidence of what I have seen so far, which is a considerable amount at this stage, Anderson is a far better player. Gibson is one paced and generally ineffective. He is a nice striker of the ball alright so produces the occasional quality pass or shot. Having said that his shot isn't nearly as good as he thinks it is either because he shoots from stupid positions at times. I don't think it's a good thing that he has the "confidence" to try a lob from 50 yards when a simple through ball is on to Rooney. I can't see him making it at United or International level. This will undoubtedly seem harsh to some and time will hopefully prove me wrong, but I think he's been somewhere between shocking and ordinary so far. I've seen most if not all of the matches he's been involved in, for both United and Ireland, and bar the odd glimpse of something good he generally dissappoints me. United and Ireland are both better when he's not playing.

I'd agree with most of that. He's a quality passer of the ball and when he learns his range he'll be deadly for distance shots. But he can't impose himself on the game, isn't strong in the air or in the tackle and generally I don't think I could see him ever controlling a game for a top team.

[Predator]

Gibson is 'deadly for distance shots', as he as proven on several occasions. He doesn't need to persuade me of his ability to score great goals. He's a good passer and in my opinion, he's definitely as good as Anderson. As yet, he has still not had a long run of games for United, but in those he has played, he has played reasonably well and contributed some important goals. I think people have been very harsh on him - for some reason, the expectations seem to be very high. When you take everything into consideration, he is definitely as good as both Andrews and Whelan, two players who were our first choice midfield pairing and he is younger. I'll trust Trapattoni and Ferguson on this one.

[rambler14]

Anderson isn't better than the corner flag. Gibson has greater potential in my opinion.

[DeLorean]

I think people have been very harsh on him - for some reason, the expectations seem to be very high

I actually think the opposite. I think if he plays one decent pass people seem to forget it's his first time touching the ball in 20mins and when he scores a goal they give him man of the match automatically. Being an Irish United fan I would love him to be a success, but I think he weakens both teams significantly.


he's definitely as good as Anderson

he is definitely as good as both Andrews and Whelan


I'll trust Trapattoni and Ferguson on this one

I would see these points as a complete contradiction. You may be able to use the age card on the Whelan/Andrews debate but he is six months older than Anderson.

[Predator]

Being an Irish United fan I would love him to be a success, but I think he weakens both teams significantly.
In what respect do you feel Gibson 'weakens' the United or Irish team?



I would see these points as a complete contradiction. You may be able to use the age card on the Whelan/Andrews debate but he is six months older than Anderson.How do you mean 'contradiction'? My point is that I trust Trapattoni and Ferguson's judgement on Gibson as a player - he's obviously good enough to make it at both United and international level if they insist on keeping him around. He is certainly as good as any of those three players and as I've said, is a few years younger than both Whelan and Andrews, so there is a big chance he could surpass them. Regarding the comparison to Anderson; he's arguably more experienced than Gibson, in that he was playing for Porto's first team briefly before joining United. Despite that experiential advantage, from what I've seen, Anderson isn't any better than Gibson is, despite his £18 million price tag. Setting all that aside 6 months of an age difference doesn't exactly mean much in football, as opposed to a few years.

[carloz]

I think some of the quotes on here are way over the top. Yes he has a problem controlling a game and can go missing. No ****, he still hasn't played 30 games at Man Utd. Most players take time to get used to that level and get the confidence to take more control in a game(Fletcher being the perfect example of this) . Personally I can see that developing in Gibson in each game. The future is only bright for him.

[DeLorean]

In what respect do you feel Gibson 'weakens' the United or Irish team?

Because he contributes very little, alot less than any player that he is keeping out of the side, whether it be Scholes, Carrick, Fletcher (goes without saying really and wouldn't expect him to be at this level yet) but even Anderson or Andrews also.



How do you mean 'contradiction'? My point is that I trust Trapattoni and Ferguson's judgement on Gibson as a player

Yes but you said that he is definitely as good as Whelan, Andrews and Anderson. Trappatoni obviously didn't agree seeing as he thought Gibson was a better option than Andrews but swiftly changed his mind after virtual no-shows against Cyprus and Poland. Ferguson played a 19 year old Anderson (in a stronger United side) far more regularly than he is playing a 22 year old Gibson. Anderson is tenacious and always looking to receive the ball and get things going, he's far from the finished article but is miles ahead of Gibson, in terms of progress, in my opinion. Yes, Gibson is still fairly young but he's not a kid either. I just think every little positive contribution is blown out of proportion on here, of course we want our players to do well, I just haven't been as impressed with him as most. I would agree with you about Fletcher though, and it's a great example. I couldn't stand that guy for years and thought Ferguson was off his head persevering with him, but he was proved right and I hope he will be with Gibson too.

[yapster]

Who are u and what have u done with Yapster :)

Why you want him back or something? I always had time for Gibson and hopefully he will work hard.

[Predator]

Because he contributes very little, alot less than any player that he is keeping out of the side, whether it be Scholes, Carrick, Fletcher (goes without saying really and wouldn't expect him to be at this level yet) but even Anderson or Andrews also.
Relative to the time that he has played, Gibson has contributed a few goals and assists; just as much, if not more than Anderson this season. I don't think he contributes a lot less to the Irish national side than Andrews. I think Andrews fits into Trapattoni's tactics more than Gibson does.





Yes but you said that he is definitely as good as Whelan, Andrews and Anderson. Trappatoni obviously didn't agree seeing as he thought Gibson was a better option than Andrews but swiftly changed his mind after virtual no-shows against Cyprus and Poland.
I still maintain that Gibson is as good as those three players. As I've said, Gibson might not have fitted the mould for Trap's tactics, but Trapattoni obviously rates him and that's something I give credence to.


Ferguson played a 19 year old Anderson (in a stronger United side) far more regularly than he is playing a 22 year old Gibson. Anderson is tenacious and always looking to receive the ball and get things going, he's far from the finished article but is miles ahead of Gibson, in terms of progress, in my opinion.
True Anderson has had a more successful career than Gibson has had so far and he certainly has the ability, but going on recent form, Gibson is no worse than him.



I just think every little positive contribution is blown out of proportion on here, of course we want our players to do well, I just haven't been as impressed with him as most. I would agree with you about Fletcher though, and it's a great example. I couldn't stand that guy for years and thought Ferguson was off his head persevering with him, but he was proved right and I hope he will be with Gibson too.
How do you think people on here blow Gibson's performances out of proportion? If anything, he has been subject to a lot of scrutiny and any ordinary or decent performance is nit-picked and people start to dismiss him entirely, just because he's not 'taking control' of the game (even though the whole United team on the day might have been worse). Then we have people like Dunphy, who launches into a tirade about how he's not good enough for the Irish team after one or two performances.

[DeLorean]

Fair enough if that's how you see it, I can't explain my views any comprehensively than I've done already. I think a lot of people on here have overrated many of his performances, that's the main point I was making really. You may have a point about recent form, not that I think Gibson has been particluarly good but Anderson has been poor. That said, Anderson impressed me greatly over the previous two seasons so I know he has another level. I'll put it this way, if I saw that Gibson was starting at The Emirates on Sunday, I'd give United much less of a chance of winning the match. That's not to say he won't improve over time obviously.

[Razors left peg]

I was just reading that Anderson has been linked with a move to Lyon, unless United were to add another midfielder in the window it would be excellent for Gibson. Its probably a rubbish story, but I wouldnt be upset to see Anderson leave

http://www.teamtalk.com/football/story/0,16368,2483_5892946,00.html

[kcass]

To be fair to gibson,i think the problem in his head.I'm not sure he ever feels secure in the united team and is afraid of making mistakes.I think he hides in games for this reason.I never see him making himself available for the ball that much.Always seems to choose the safe option.

just contributing to my first thread,long time lurker though.Hello everyone.

[DeLorean]

Some glowing accolades about Anderson in the comments, I would be of a similar view. Gibson would have to up his performance level about 30-40% to come close to filling his boots in my opinion. Lloris looks a quality keeper from what I've seen alright, great under crosses which is fairly rare these days.

[seanfhear]

Then we have people like Dunphy, who launches into a tirade about how he's not good enough for the Irish team after one or two performances.
Ironically Dunphy is not good enough to be an Irish football pundit but he keeps getting his games:p

[SkStu]

Ironically Dunphy is not good enough to be an Irish football pundit but he keeps getting his games:p

though he's come off early during a couple of those appearances, seanfhear.

[EalingGreen]

[Originally posted by Ealing Green on 16/02/09]
"Happy to oblige and point out that it would take three or four injuries (at least) for young Mr. Gibson to get a place in the centre of NI's midfield, were he ours. You're welcome to him"

I will re-post this exactly one year from today. You will cry
One year later and I'm crying all right...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjF7GMP28X8

[dr_peepee]

Yeah!.... Put that in your pipe, and smoke it!!!!!

[shakermaker1982]

EG must have marked the 16/2/10 on his forward planner!!!

[Colbert Report]

Will Gibson be on the bench today away to AC Milan?

[EalingGreen]

EG must have marked the 16/2/10 on his forward planner!!!

I know. If only there was some sort of electronic device called, say, a computer, which incorporated, oh I dunno, a Diary or somesuch, which could remind one of future events which might be of interest...

Oh well, one can dream. :cool:

[Acornvilla]

Will Gibson be on the bench today away to AC Milan?

probably not.. who are they playing at the weekend? he might get a look in then or whens the cup final?

[geysir]

Begrudgers have a long memory, they don't use forward planners being primarily stuck in the past.
Won't bother Darron one bit after some quality time on the pitch with the representative team of his nationality, as they at least managed to match qualification aspirations with honest all round effort.
While the fate of the Faroes beckon for the OWC, Darron is still in with the boys in green for the long haul.

[EalingGreen]

Begrudgers have a long memory, they don't use forward planners being primarily stuck in the past.


(Assuming that comment refers to me) There's no "begrudgery" on my part whatever. Quite simply, Brendan82 issued a kind of 'challenge' that come Feb.2010, Gibson's progress would be such that I would be "crying". And even if he has forgotten his post (perhaps conveniently so?), I am happy to remind others of it.

As for my being "stuck in the past", then that must be your opinion. For myself, I was of the opinion 12 months ago that Gibson would not have got a regular game in the NI centre midfield without a number of injuries, and it remains what I think now.

As for the future, whilst Gibson has undeniably made some progress recently, and might hope to continue to do so, I suspect that if this post is resurrected in another 12 months time, my opinion will be largely unchanged. We'll see.



Won't bother Darron one bit after some quality time on the pitch with the representative team of his nationalityThe issue was not whether DG might be one bit bothered about his choice of international team, rather whether I, as an NI fan, might be. And in practical terms, I do not regret his unavailability to NI any more than I ever did, i.e. he would have been a useful addition to our squad for the WCQ's, but no more than that, and certainly not a "key" player.



... as they at least managed to match qualification aspirations with honest all round effort. What exactly are you trying to say with that convoluted construction? That the ROI's quest for qualification was so much more successful than that of NI?
Granted they came closer to achieving that goal than NI, but imo that was only because they had a much less competitive Group than ours and when it came to it, they still failed in a Play-Off against a below-par French team that was (or should have been) "there for the taking". For me, the various Rankings and Seedings tables etc confirm that there is currently not a great deal between the two teams in terms of quality and competitiveness.
And even if the ROI's WCQ campaign was somehow more glorious or exciting etc than NI's, Gibson's role was decidedly peripheral.

As for the "honesty of effort" on display, whatever else NI's failings during the campaign, that most definitely was not one of them (especially in central midfield), so we didn't miss him in that respect, either.
Indeed, I have no desire to see anyone picked in an NI shirt who is not 100% committed, for whatever reasons, and regardless of how talented (known as "Stephen Ireland Syndrome" down your way?).



While the fate of the Faroes beckon for the OWCNope, don't understand this, either. :confused:


Darron is still in with the boys in green for the long haul.Good for him. But unless something changes significantly, I don't foresee his gaining many more international caps, if any, over the next campaign than he would had he remained with NI.
And in any case, even should I turn out to be completely wrong, I'm sure I won't be cwying over it! ;)

[Brendan 82]

Can't believe you remembered that! I can't even remember saying it myself! You must be some craic

[EalingGreen]

Can't believe you remembered that! I can't even remember saying it myself! You must be some craic
I didn't remember it - my computer did. But you're right, I am some crack [sic]

[geysir]

Begrudgers, along with a long memory, do tend towards taking themselves and their justifications way too serious and overly concerned with being right and wrong.

The sad truth is, very few footballers from Ireland will make it at a top flight team. It's far too easy to say so and so won't make it, as the vast majority don't. We hope he does.
Whatever lies in the future for Darron, at least he should be able to find regular football at a decent level. So far, his managers have been impressed by his natural ability and attitude.

[ofjames]

gibson is on the bench tonight.

evans started but is having a nightmare so far. milan should have scored at least 3

scholes just after getting a jammy equaliser

doubt we'll be seeing darron taking the field, hope we do though

[Colbert Report]

Yeah, Gibson won't see the pitch in this one. Ronaldinho is having an absolute blinder, he just made a great turn that left two Man U players in the dust. Unreal. His first touch is amazing - someone booted the ball up the field to him at pace, probably forty plus yards, and he controlled it with one little foot movement. A pleasure to watch.

[yapster]

I have high hopes for Gibson

[Charlie Darwin]

Possibilty he'll start next week with Carrick suspended, but Ferguson might pull Rooney back to midfield instead.

[Crosby87]

Did he get in today?

[Colbert Report]

no...

[ifk101]

What exactly are you trying to say with that convoluted construction? That the ROI's quest for qualification was so much more successful than that of NI?
Granted they came closer to achieving that goal than NI, but imo that was only because they had a much less competitive Group than ours and when it came to it, they still failed in a Play-Off against a below-par French team that was (or should have been) "there for the taking". For me, the various Rankings and Seedings tables etc confirm that there is currently not a great deal between the two teams in terms of quality and competitiveness.
And even if the ROI's WCQ campaign was somehow more glorious or exciting etc than NI's, Gibson's role was decidedly peripheral.

As for the "honesty of effort" on display, whatever else NI's failings during the campaign, that most definitely was not one of them (especially in central midfield), so we didn't miss him in that respect, either.
Indeed, I have no desire to see anyone picked in an NI shirt who is not 100% committed, for whatever reasons, and regardless of how talented (known as "Stephen Ireland Syndrome" down your way?).

The two top seeds in NI's qualification group were easily the weakest pair in all of the qualification groups. NI had a more competitive group because there was a number of teams in it that were of a similar (poor) quality. For example the Irish League is more competitive this year than it has been for a number of seasons. But put an EPL team into the mix and they'd romp home with the title. Similarly if there was a half decent team in NI's qualification group, they'd have won the group at a canter.

Gibson was never "your" player. So whether you miss him or not is, at the end of the day, irrelevant. As it is the central positions in NI's midfield are built with journeymen from Rangers, Plymouth and Scunthorpe.

Like you I'm not sure what Geysir is on about with his "while the fate of the Faroes beckon for the OWC" comment but if you wish to time your computer once more, and after watching the Faroes against Serbia and France in the year gone by, I guarantee you that the Faroes will take points off NI in the forthcoming EC qualification. After all, it's not like they haven't done so before.

[Gather round]

It's pretty clear the Republic were better than Northern Ireland in qualifying just finished. You got more points. I think we have to assume the groups are of roughly equal standard based on recent past performance.


The two top seeds in NI's qualification group were easily the weakest pair in all of the qualification groups

Do you mean identified as weakest before the games started? If so this is pretty subjective- Greece and Israel, for example, were drawn in the same group despite both being lowest in their seeding pools.

If you mean on the evidence of the games in the group perhaps, the Czechs and Poles were below par and also underestimated the lower-ranked teams. On the other hand give the Slovaks and Slovenes credit for a big improvement.


NI had a more competitive group because there was a number of teams in it that were of a similar (poor) quality

It was more competitive largely because four of the teams kept in touch for most of the series by winning games, particularly at home. Whereas Cyprus, Montenegro and Georgia managed three between them in 30 games. Basically- we had two off form favorities, you got three deadbeats.


For example the Irish League is more competitive this year than it has been for a number of seasons. But put an EPL team into the mix and they'd romp home with the title

Only if they didn't bankrupt first? OK, cheap dig but silly example. The Irish League makes no claim to be of a similar standard to the LoI. Unlike in international competitions based on seedings.


Similarly if there was a half decent team in NI's qualification group, they'd have won the group at a canter

There was, on current form Slovakia are the seventh-best team in Europe. OK, maybe not at a canter buty they did manage 22 points with seven wins.


As it is the central positions in NI's midfield are built with journeymen from Rangers, Plymouth and Scunthorpe

Slightly harsh on Davis- he's been the outstanding midfielder in Scotland this term. On the basis of that, and his previous English experience, he might well be a journeyman in the EPL. Just like Lawrence, Whelan, McGeady?


after watching the Faroes against Serbia and France in the year gone by, I guarantee you that the Faroes will take points off NI in the forthcoming EC qualification. After all, it's not like they haven't done so before

Possibly, but I'd be careful of risking too much cash. In practice we'll be the clear favorite in both games; if we win both by a single goal it'll be treated with relief as six hard-earned points. Even if the winner is sneaked in the 96th minute. As for the potential World beater in the group, I won't guarantee anything but wouldn't be surprised if we managed a win. After all, we don't seem to choke against the very best in recent years.

[ifk101]

It was more competitive largely because four of the teams kept in touch for most of the series by winning games, particularly at home. Whereas Cyprus, Montenegro and Georgia managed three between them in 30 games. Basically- we had two off form favorities, you got three deadbeats.

Three deadbeats? All three are more than capable of beating NI. Indeed the weakest seeded team, Montenegro, have a far better pick of players than NI. As for Slovakia, they did the simple things well and doing so counts for a lot in international football. We got the simple things right in our qualification and this lead to us being comfortable second place finishers behind the reigning WC holders and within a handball of actual qualification. Anyways I'm confident we'll finish ahead of Slovakia in our forthcoming qualification group.


Slightly harsh on Davis- he's been the outstanding midfielder in Scotland this term. On the basis of that, and his previous English experience, he might well be a journeyman in the EPL. Just like Lawrence, Whelan, McGeady?

Only Whelan plays in central midfield, and McGeady and Lawrence are challenging for the same position in our team. McGeady is an outstanding player in Scotland so if you consider McGeady a journeyman, can we draw the same conclusions about Davis, a failure at EPL level? These players are not top internatonal players by any means but better than the options available to Worthlesston.


Possibly, but I'd be careful of risking too much cash. In practice we'll be the clear favorite in both games; if we win both by a single goal it'll be treated with relief as six hard-earned points. Even if the winner is sneaked in the 96th minute. As for the potential World beater in the group, I won't guarantee anything but wouldn't be surprised if we managed a win.

I'm sure you'll manage a win along the way but if NI are knocked in to a very short price against the Faroes, I'd have no hesitation or regret (if NI do manage to get the win) in backing the Faroes to get something out of the games.


After all, we don't seem to choke against the very best in recent years.

That's the difference between the two sides. We aim for qualification and are disappointed if we don't achieve that goal. NI fans are happy if they take a scalp along the way but ultimately they do not have the quality in their ranks to consistently get the results needed for qualification. The FIFA rankings might say we are of a similar quality/ standard but an unbiased evaluation of the players available to both sides says something else.

[shakermaker1982]

I know. If only there was some sort of electronic device called, say, a computer, which incorporated, oh I dunno, a Diary or somesuch, which could remind one of future events which might be of interest...

Oh well, one can dream. :cool:

meeeooooow!!!

Tad obsessive that you'd even record Brendan's general comment about Gibson?

He's still at Man Utd and must have something about him or else Fergie would have chucked him years ago.

Fingers crossed Fergie's faith in him pays off and Gibson's career goes the same way as Fletcher.

[EalingGreen]

Begrudgers, along with a long memory, do tend towards taking themselves and their justifications way too serious and overly concerned with being right and wrong.

I offered a detailed rebuttal of your post. The fact that your only recourse is petty, ad hominem abuse exposes the poverty of your case. You might have been better to say nothing. As usual.



The sad truth is, very few footballers from Ireland will make it at a top flight team. It's far too easy to say so and so won't make it, as the vast majority don't. We hope he does.
Whatever lies in the future for Darron, at least he should be able to find regular football at a decent level. So far, his managers have been impressed by his natural ability and attitude.I wouldn't disagree with any of that; then again, I don't need to, since it is irrelevant to the point under discussion.
Which, in case you've forgotten, was that Brendan 82 claimed a year ago that by now, NI fans like myself would be "crying" at not having Gibson available to us.
I repeat that normally he would make a useful addition to our squad (though no more than that). However, since he is clearly disaffected re NI, then his lack of commitment means he is no loss.
Quite honestly, I would be much more disappointed if a player of the undoubted quality of, say, Stephen Ireland, were eligible for NI but unwilling, than a lesser talent like Gibson.

[EalingGreen]

The two top seeds in NI's qualification group were easily the weakest pair in all of the qualification groups. NI had a more competitive group because there was a number of teams in it that were of a similar (poor) quality. For example the Irish League is more competitive this year than it has been for a number of seasons. But put an EPL team into the mix and they'd romp home with the title. Similarly if there was a half decent team in NI's qualification group, they'd have won the group at a canter.

Gibson was never "your" player. So whether you miss him or not is, at the end of the day, irrelevant. As it is the central positions in NI's midfield are built with journeymen from Rangers, Plymouth and Scunthorpe.

Like you I'm not sure what Geysir is on about with his "while the fate of the Faroes beckon for the OWC" comment but if you wish to time your computer once more, and after watching the Faroes against Serbia and France in the year gone by, I guarantee you that the Faroes will take points off NI in the forthcoming EC qualification. After all, it's not like they haven't done so before.GR has already addressed this post comprehensively, so I will only take issue with one point [bold]

Namely, Gibson was always "our" player in the sense that he is unquestionably eligible for us - after all, he was born in NI, received his first coaching in NI and first played for an NI side (Institute FC). Therefore, the only question was whether he was also (potentially) "your" player as well.

Of course, being dual qualified, he ultimately decided he didn't want to play for us, but I don't see how that makes him different from eg Roy Carroll, Stephen Ireland or Paul Scholes. Or would you contend that they were never (respectively)" NI's", "ROI's" or "England's"?

In any case, Darron Gibson was indisputably "ours" when he was playing representative football for NI's under-age teams i.e. before he "remembered" what Nationality he really was...

[Paulie]

I've just read the last couple of pages of this thread and I can't believe that someone would set down a reminder for a date, which is a year away, on the basis that at that point they may be able to prove to some random punter that they've been debating with on a football forum, that they were wrong (a year ago). I mean, how badly do you need to be proved right? It's not that it's hassle to set the reminder, it's just so petty. The merits of the argument are irrelevant. I just don't get the mentality of someone who thinks "just wait, in 1 year, I'll show him". Jaysus.

As a matter of interest, if Gibson had become a regular in the Man Utd first team and was generally regarded as having made significant progress over the past year, would you have come on to acknowledge that you were wrong? Me thinks not.

[gustavo]

I didn't remember it - my computer did. But you're right, I am some crack [sic]

That's not what sic means btw

[ifk101]

GR has already addressed this post comprehensively, so I will only take issue with one point [bold]

Namely, Gibson was always "our" player in the sense that he is unquestionably eligible for us - after all, he was born in NI, received his first coaching in NI and first played for an NI side (Institute FC). Therefore, the only question was whether he was also (potentially) "your" player as well.

Of course, being dual qualified, he ultimately decided he didn't want to play for us, but I don't see how that makes him different from eg Roy Carroll, Stephen Ireland or Paul Scholes. Or would you contend that they were never (respectively)" NI's", "ROI's" or "England's"?

In any case, Darron Gibson was indisputably "ours" when he was playing representative football for NI's under-age teams i.e. before he "remembered" what Nationality he really was...

All players born on the island of Ireland are "our" players. This is the stance taken by the FAI and subsequently supported by FIFA's eligibility rules - as you well know. With a strict interpretation of the eligibility rules, I believe the FAI should have first preference in the capping of players born in NI. Perhaps a gentleman's agreement of some sort is in order? But then again what could we possibly gain from entering such an agreement?

BTW interesting last comment but for the record Gibson's nationality is Irish and he has ultimately chosen to represent his nation.

[EalingGreen]

meeeooooow!!!

Tad obsessive that you'd even record Brendan's general comment about Gibson?

Not really. At the time Brendan82 and I were having our discussion, it only took a moment to make a quick note in my E-Diary (along with Birthdays, events etc), then forget about it. Then when I opened my computer the other day, I got a reminder. I thought it would be interesting to revisit Brendan's prediction, hence my post.
It is curious that every respondent has sought to question my "memory", rather than Brendan's initial claim. I guess that that confirms that the claim has proven to be way off the mark. Anyhow, it's no big deal, although I suspect if the roles were reversed, posters would have been taking me up on my false confidence far more than Brendan's "obsessiveness".




He's still at Man Utd and must have something about him or else Fergie would have chucked him years ago.
No doubt he has "something about him", but I can't help wondering whether he might have left OT before now were Ferguson not so obviously restricted for transfer funds by the Glazers and/or Owen Hargreaves had been fit and available? Hard to tell, since MU can still afford to maintain a large number of fringe players on (I assume) relatively modest wages, like Gibson.


Fingers crossed Fergie's faith in him pays off and Gibson's career goes the same way as Fletcher.I'm not sure just how much "faith" in DG Fergie really has. For when it comes to the big, "must-win" games, he clearly doesn't yet trust Gibson to be up to it. As I indicated above, it may suit Ferguson to keep him in the squad, since to sign another player to replace him would likely cost more (transfer fee and wages), with no guarantee that the new guy would fit in at OT, as DG so clearly does.
As for Fletcher, I suspect he is "the exception who proves the rule". That is, I can remember any number of young players who initially looked to be "the real deal" but subsequently failed to measure up. Yet Fletcher is just about the only player I can recall who looked a "journeyman" for so long, before turning out to be an absolutely top class player. Gibson might be another, but he is statistically at least as likely to be another eg Paul McShane imo.
More likely than either, however, is that he may become another John O'Shea or Wes Brown i.e. more than a journeyman, but less than a star.

(No offence to McShane, btw, who whatever else, is a whole-hearted player with an apparently excellent attitude)

[EalingGreen]

I've just read the last couple of pages of this thread and I can't believe that someone would set down a reminder for a date, which is a year away, on the basis that at that point they may be able to prove to some random punter that they've been debating with on a football forum, that they were wrong (a year ago). I mean, how badly do you need to be proved right? It's not that it's hassle to set the reminder, it's just so petty. The merits of the argument are irrelevant. I just don't get the mentality of someone who thinks "just wait, in 1 year, I'll show him". Jaysus.
I can't believe that you would take the trouble to read a couple of pages of someone else's discussion on an internet football forum, then take the trouble to compose a post such as the above, which has no reference to the original topic (i.e. Darron Gibson).
Indeed, I was tempted to post a "Jaysus" myself, until I remembered that that is the nature of internet discussion forums...


As a matter of interest, if Gibson had become a regular in the Man Utd first team and was generally regarded as having made significant progress over the past year, would you have come on to acknowledge that you were wrong?Well, of course not!
I find it hard to believe that after 850 posts, you still seem unable to comprehend how these Discussion boards work...

[Deckydee]

EDIT: Actually on second thoughts.............Im not getting involved

[EalingGreen]

That's not what sic means btw

"Sic" means "Thus". Therefore I was using it entirely correctly when drawing attention to the proper spelling of "crack", which derives originally from Scotland and the North of England, rather than in Ireland. Whilst I am happy to leave it to "Oirish Theme Pub" owners etc to spell it "craic" if they like (it serves as a useful warning, I find), I prefer not to do so myself.

[Gather round]

Three deadbeats?

Read the league tables. Maybe none of them quite as deadbeat as our boys in 2004, so there's a challenge for them to improve.


All three are more than capable of beating NI

Profound but largely irrelevant- most teams in Europe are capable of beating most others as a one off. Remember in Euro 2008 qualifying Liechtenstein beat Iceland who beat Northern Ireland who beat Spain. All three winners scored three goals. But ultimately the league table doesn't lie- Spain are champions of Europe and Liechtenstein a hugely overachieving village team. On qualifying evidence the three lowest-placed teams in your group are clearly weaker than NI.


Indeed the weakest seeded team, Montenegro, have a far better pick of players than NI

Do they indeed? As a very small countrywithout a strong domestic league and a modest international record, I'll take your word for it only with a large pinch.


As for Slovakia, they did the simple things well and doing so counts for a lot in international football. We got the simple things right in our qualification and this lead to us being comfortable second place finishers behind the reigning WC holders and within a handball of actual qualification. Anyways I'm confident we'll finish ahead of Slovakia in our forthcoming qualification group

Fine. Obviously international qualifiers with only 10 games over two seasons are likely to be volatile, more so than club football. But Slovakia are better than you are NOW. That might have changed by September. If you're suggesting that Trap and the lads eased off when a home win against Montenegro wasn't necessary, you can't really then grumble about future seedings. Two or four more points against them could have been quite significant. You don't get any more points for having to play Italy than we did for beating Spain in Euro 2008.

Within a handball? So the French would just have given up had it been disallowed then? Get over it man.


so if you consider McGeady a journeyman, can we draw the same conclusions about Davis, a failure at EPL level?

Aye, like I said. Davis and McGeady would probably both be journeymen in EPL, rather than stars in Scotland if they moved tomorrow. I was merely defending Davis by asking you to judge him against the same standard as players from Stoke, Hull and makeweight teams in Glasgow. Sorry if I missed their exact positions on field.


These players are not top internatonal players by any means

They're the best you've got and they got you to the play-offs. Concentrate on the positive?


but better than the options available to Worthlesston

Fine, as I said above you were the better team this time. Last time, when you weren't, either the previous players were less good or the same ones played less well. I support international football, their results are what count- Plymouth, Coventry, Stoke or Fulham's are incidental. BTW What's with the 'Worthlesston'? Did he **** on your ryvita or something?


I'm sure you'll manage a win along the way but if NI are knocked in to a very short price against the Faroes, I'd have no hesitation or regret (if NI do manage to get the win) in backing the Faroes to get something out of the games

They won't be at as short odds as we were against San Marino. If you want decent odds, Faroes to hold or beat Serbia would be better.


That's the difference between the two sides. We aim for qualification and are disappointed if we don't achieve that goal

I'd put it a bit differently. You've qualified for one of the last eight tournaments, you were a mile (10 points) behind last time, you're still objectively ranked as third rate. Evidence suggests your aim is unrealistic.

Whereas we have failed- unlike similar sized teams like Slovenia, Latvia, Bosnia, Wales to manage the occasional top two place at least.


NI fans are happy if they take a scalp along the way

Well, obviously we'd rather beat England, Spain, Sweden and Poland rather than not, but almost all of our fans I know accept that we have underachieved embarrassingly over the last 10, 20 or 25 years.


but ultimately they do not have the quality in their ranks to consistently get the results needed for qualification

As above, we realistically hope for enough quality to be consistent enough for 8-10 games to stay ahead of Estonia, Slovenia etc. and just maybe to shockl Serbia. Obviously wins against the top dogs help to that end, but we must improve.


The FIFA rankings might say we are of a similar quality/ standard but an unbiased evaluation of the players available to both sides says something else

If you're content for the rankings to base largely on two sets of qualifying (at least for those who tend not to qualify), since WC 2006 we've both managed a respectable 35 points from 22 games. An unbiased evaluation of the two teams says they're pretty similar over that period. Regardless of whether Liam Lawrence is playing in a higher league than Damien Johnson or whatever.


With a strict interpretation of the eligibility rules, I believe the FAI should have first preference in the capping of players born in NI?

Look, I realise this is just your usual witless wind-up but can you explain it anyway? Ta.

[Crosby87]

Damn there should be some limits on total words someone can post in one sitting. If I want to read War and Peace Ill go to the library.

[EalingGreen]

All players born on the island of Ireland are "our" players. This is the stance taken by the FAI and subsequently supported by FIFA's eligibility rules - as you well know. With a strict interpretation of the eligibility rules, I believe the FAI should have first preference in the capping of players born in NI. Perhaps a gentleman's agreement of some sort is in order? But then again what could we possibly gain from entering such an agreement?

BTW interesting last comment but for the record Gibson's nationality is Irish and he has ultimately chosen to represent his nation.Blah, blah, blah.

I repeat, you claimed that DG was never "our" (i.e. NI's) player. I merely reminded you that he most certainly was when he was playing for Northern Ireland.

The fact that he has dual nationality and subsequently chose to assert his other nationality does not overturn your original false claim; rather, it once again demonstrates your habit of hiding behind "straw men" in an effort to avoid admitting when when you get things wrong.