Darron Gibson

[cornflakes]

Statistical analysis of sport is one of the most consistently mind-numbingly crappily implemented uses of statistics, and that's a competitive field.

Agreed. Statistics will work in sports like baseball or ,er, chess but not football

[elroy]

Good goal. Played ok, but imo is never going to be good enough to be a centre midfielder at the top level. There was a couple of occasions last night where he was urging the midfield to push up the field and close the opposition when arguably it is something he doesnt do enough himself.

I actually think his best role would be employed behind a striker, although he would need to up his work rate to play there. He has such a lethal strike and his generally good on the ball that we should try to maximise that and play him closer to the opponents goal. But he does not assert himself, is not a battling strong midfielder, he doesnt show for the defenders particularly when they have the ball at their feet and he does seem to want to get hold of the ball and take control of the midfield. Perhaps he might play well with McCarthy in midfield?

[Junior]

I missed the final team lineout just before I sat down for the kick off on Sky Sports. It took me until the 7:57mins to work out who was partnering Whelan in midifeld. Im not sure he had a touch until then and he certainly didnt have his name mentioned until that point. I think its indicative of his general anonymity in games (Oh and Im sure it says something about my deteriorating eyesight but thats another matter).

Take nothing away from the strike - sublime but then we all know he can do that and its a fantastic asset to have, its the rest of his game where Im struggling to see him bring anything to the table at this stage, though Im sure he has it in his locker and just needs to get it out.

[SwanVsDalton]

I'll be honest I thought he got on the ball quite a bit, and played some really nice, generally forward passes. Particularly linked with Duff and Whelan well in controlling midfield. To be fair I'm biased, Derry and all, and tend to micro-monitor his every move but he was far more active than usual imo.

However Geysir made a good point in another thread about his defensive ability - he doesn't impose himself physically or really close down/cover space in a way you'd like him to when on the back foot, meaning he tends to be completely anonymous when we don't have the ball for a spell (which is more often than not).

[Charlie Darwin]

You must have had the sound switched off, Junior. Lots of mentions, both complimentary and critical.

[Sullivinho]

"Trap urges Gibson to move" (http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_6742649,00.html)

[rebelmusic]

I wonder if Gibson will respond like the last time. Or more than that, will Fergie weigh in. Fergie's silence would suggest he agrees

[Junior]

You must have had the sound switched off, Junior. Lots of mentions, both complimentary and critical.

In the first 8 minutes?

Obviously once Id figured it out and the game went on he was mentioned but nothing of note apart from the great goal. Some simple passes carried out effectively and some adventurous misplaced ones.

I thought Whelan played very well actually, saw a hell of a lot more of him than Gibson in the middle. Im not anti-Gibson or anything just want him to show a bit of workrate when we dont have the ball.

[Sullivinho]

I wonder if Gibson will respond like the last time.

Indeed. And which lowly club will bear the brunt of his sarcastic ire this time? My money's on West Brom.

[ArdeeBhoy]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/feb/09/darron-gibson-giovanni-trapattoni-ireland

[geysir]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/feb/09/darron-gibson-giovanni-trapattoni-ireland
Trap enjoys winding up Darron.

Trap is also quoted as saying "He can run a couple of kilometres more during a game" :D

[Closed Account]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/feb/09/darron-gibson-giovanni-trapattoni-irelandFunny that the only quotes in that article are:

He can do more. He has a big potential. If I was Gibson I would go to another team where I always play. By doing this you can build your mentality. Manchester is Manchester and it is an important club, but sometimes the young players need to play, play and play. It builds confidence.It would of been fair to include the rest of what he said:
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/soccer/darron-gibson-the-incomplete-midfielder-144821.html
including this:

There was a polemica before when I said that if I was Gibson I would go to another club where I would play more and build personality. Manchester is Manchester, like Juve or Inter, but players need to play, play, play. where it sounds like he was only referencing what he said last year rather than reiterating it.

and

"Maybe next year Scholes goes out and he could play and improve," said Trapattoni. "I expect that this could happen." But lets not ruin a good story eh?

[Stuttgart88]

Unbelievable. Ian Hislop was quoted on the back of an Ann Widdecombe novel saying that the book was "a pure joy to read" whereas what he actually said was " this book was pure tripe but compared to the stuff by another old Tory hag, Edwina Currie, it was a pure joy to read". Something like that anyway.

[geysir]

where it sounds like he was only referencing what he said last year rather than reiterating it.

Trap was reiterating what he said last year, not referencing.
'He can do more. He has big potential and the right mentality but I said a year or a year and a half ago that if I was Gibson I would go to another club where I can play continuously.
'With this you can build your mentality. Manchester is Manchester and is obviously an important club but sometimes in the end you need you need to play, play, play.

'You can take confidence from this, but I think he is fantastic.'

[Adrock]

I dont think to be fair theres any another big club in the world where Gibson would have had as many opportunities as he has had at Manu. Fergie obviously rates him and is prepared to persevere with him and we should be grateful for that because theres few Irish players that get the opportunity to play champions league football. Putting on my Manchester United hat I would probably prefer he was left on the bench for the big games though tbh.

[Closed Account]

Trap was reiterating what he said last year, not referencing.
'He can do more. He has big potential and the right mentality but I said a year or a year and a half ago that if I was Gibson I would go to another club where I can play continuously.
'With this you can build your mentality. Manchester is Manchester and is obviously an important club but sometimes in the end you need you need to play, play, play.

'You can take confidence from this, but I think he is fantastic.'
Dunno where you got that quote geysir (link?) but it's different to the one I quoted.
Yours:
He has big potential and the right mentality but I said a year or a year and a half ago
Examiner:
There was a polemica before when I said that.

Strange that someone would mistake the word potiential for the Italian word for controversy but without being at the press conference, we'll never know. Capiche?

[seanfhear]

Darron is at an age where he needs to be playing 1 full game a week (approx if you want to be semantic). Trap is right about this though maybe not about other things.

[geysir]

Dunno where you got that quote geysir (link?) but it's different to the one I quoted.
Yours:
He has big potential and the right mentality but I said a year or a year and a half ago
Examiner:
There was a polemica before when I said that.

Strange that someone would mistake the word potiential for the Italian word for controversy but without being at the press conference, we'll never know. Capiche?
Link from Rte (http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2011/0209/gibsond.html)

One reason the quotes are different is because they are translated from Trapspeak into some form of english.
Pretty much he is saying the same stuff about Gibson as last time.
One thing is becoming clearer, if McCarthy turns up he would be well ahead of Darron in the team. Trap is saying more or less that he needs to work harder and work on his overall midfield game, he has not progressed as much as he needs to do.
Strange enough, when we have a manager who doesn't say anything, then we quickly get bored, and when we have a manager who is prepared to express himself openly, it doesn't sound as if it should be discussed publicly.

[paul_oshea]

Whatever about traps english, your Italian has to be commended.

Along with your ability to clearly decipher traps ramblings into clear and concise meanings.

[SwanVsDalton]

Link from Rte (http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2011/0209/gibsond.html)

One reason the quotes are different is because they are translated from Trapspeak into some form of english.
Pretty much he is saying the same stuff about Gibson as last time.
One thing is becoming clearer, if McCarthy turns up he would be well ahead of Darron in the team. Trap is saying more or less that he needs to work harder and work on his overall midfield game, he has not progressed as much as he needs to do.

And in turn what does that say about Green? He could be out of the squad altogether. Or maybe that's wishful thinking...

And I think Trap's right to try and push Gibson - he seems like the type who needs a good shove occasionally.

[Predator]

One thing is becoming clearer, if McCarthy turns up he would be well ahead of Darron in the team.Definitely and rightly so.

[shakermaker1982]

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/ferguson-refuses-to-be-drawn-into-row-with-trap-over-gibson-2536257.html

Fergie on Gibson/Trap

[Junior]

"I don't know in what context he said it," said Ferguson.

"The media today can exaggerate anything now.

"It may have been a simple message for Darron. Who knows?

"I only picked up the headline of it yesterday and didn't really bother about the content.

"I know Trapattoni. He is a sensible, experienced man. I don't really give much credence to it. I don't think he would say it to cause mischief."

Cant argue with those comments. He's definitely mellowed in his old age Fergie.....He'd never make it in journalism

[OwlsFan]

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/ferguson-refuses-to-be-drawn-into-row-with-trap-over-gibson-2536257.html

Fergie on Gibson/Trap

I like the bit "excelled for Ireland in midweek". Must have been watching a different game, the goal apart. Journalists really like to gild the lilly.

[Docboy]

Could well be that Fergie would be only too happy to let him leave in the summer if they can get a decent fee for him. Never seen a more immobile midfielder for Ireland, including Trap's nemesis Andy Reid. Although strangely Gibson did show a turn of pace just prior to the goal. Definitely needs a rocket to get him going.

[Charlie Darwin]

I don't think he's immobile, he's just been taught in a system that values positioning over harrying which isn't necessarily something we should look down on, especially when you see the amount of energy Whelan and Andrews expend trying to win the ball back only to lose it again because they're knackered. Carrick is exactly the same way, only Carrick is much better at it.

I think Ferguson will keep him for at least next season purely because he's technically-gifted and can pick a pass, of which there are only Carrick and an aging Scholes at United. He obviously has deficiencies but Trap's idea that he should go to Stoke and learn to be Paul Green is laughable, although it might ultimately turn out to be his level.

[Stuttgart88]

I don't think he's immobile, he's just been taught in a system that values positioning over harrying which isn't necessarily something we should look down on, especially when you see the amount of energy Whelan and Andrews expend trying to win the ball back only to lose it again because they're knackered. Carrick is exactly the same way, only Carrick is much better at it.That's what I was trying to say by mentioning Gilberto Silva a while back.

I watched a re-run of the game and at one point a Welsh CB (or a midfielder who had dropped deep) was carrying the ball out of defence, approaching Gibson, but about 12 yards short of him. Gibson made no effort to close him down, instead leaving it for Walters to bust his balls getting back and putting pressure on. Was Gibson lazy not going forward to tackle him, or disciplined keeping his position in the centre of the field?

[Colbert Report]

That's what I was trying to say by mentioning Gilberto Silva a while back.

I watched a re-run of the game and at one point a Welsh CB (or a midfielder who had dropped deep) was carrying the ball out of defence, approaching Gibson, but about 12 yards short of him. Gibson made no effort to close him down, instead leaving it for Walters to bust his balls getting back and putting pressure on. Was Gibson lazy not going forward to tackle him, or disciplined keeping his position in the centre of the field?

lazy.

[SwanVsDalton]

I'm not sure it's laziness so much as an adherence to what Trap wants. I'm not sure Gibson is accustomed to the sitting role and would rather do what the manager asks ('two banks of four', stay in line with CM partner) than push up. To be fair I prefer that to Green charging out of midfield and getting the runaround, as against Russia.

[Stuttgart88]

Obviously Scholes owes nothing to anyone at the end of a marvelous career, but if Gibson had done what Scholes did in the first 15 mins of the second half today against City (that's all I've seen) he'd never play again! Misplaced passes, sliced backpass...

[Jicked]

lazy.

Are you serious?

[geysir]

Obviously Scholes owes nothing to anyone at the end of a marvelous career, but if Gibson had done what Scholes did in the first 15 mins of the second half today against City (that's all I've seen) he'd never play again! Misplaced passes, sliced backpass...
Gibson is becoming the football equivalent of Enda Kenny.
His status improves when absent.

[Colbert Report]

Are you serious?

Serious as a heart attack.

Gibson is a total waster, too content to sit back and collect his pay packet rather than actually go out and do something. He won't be in the Premiership two years from now and he'll only have himself to blame.

[Predator]

That's what I was trying to say by mentioning Gilberto Silva a while back.

I watched a re-run of the game and at one point a Welsh CB (or a midfielder who had dropped deep) was carrying the ball out of defence, approaching Gibson, but about 12 yards short of him. Gibson made no effort to close him down, instead leaving it for Walters to bust his balls getting back and putting pressure on. Was Gibson lazy not going forward to tackle him, or disciplined keeping his position in the centre of the field?When we don't have the ball, we try to keep our shape as much as possible. Gibson is not that lazy*. If he was, he wouldn't be where he is today. He is a valuable asset to have in the squad and he showed why against Wales, with a pleasing contribution that included bit of decent play that culminated in a wonderstrike. We won the game and he did his bit for the team.

*People keep saying he's lazy when it's obvious that he just plays with a swagger.

[Colbert Report]

When we don't have the ball, we try to keep our shape as much as possible. Gibson is not that lazy*. If he was, he wouldn't be where he is today. He is a valuable asset to have in the squad and he showed why against Wales, with a pleasing contribution that included bit of decent play that culminated in a wonderstrike. We won the game and he did his bit for the team.

*People keep saying he's lazy when it's obvious that he just plays with a swagger.

You mean not even on the bench for Manchester United? Cop yourself on, the guy clearly isn't good enough to play for Manchester United and he's hardly shown any sort of progress over the past year. Needs a move to a club that will play him ever match ASAP.

[Predator]

Whatever about his chances at United, he's not as lazy as you proclaim him to be. I think he must have worked hard to earn his contract at one of the best clubs in the world. Or maybe he's just really, really lucky?
I don't deny that he might not be good enough for United and agree that he would probably benefit from a move to a club where he's playing a lot.

[Colbert Report]

Wow wow wow hang on, I only answered a question of whether or not he was lazy or disciplined for failing to leave his position to close down a Welsh defender coming out in possession.

[Predator]

You then went on to describe him thus:
"Gibson is a total waster, too content to sit back and collect his pay packet rather than actually go out and do something."

[Colbert Report]

You then went on to describe him thus:
"Gibson is a total waster, too content to sit back and collect his pay packet rather than actually go out and do something."

Do you dispute that? What is Gibson up to today I wonder? All the other footballers are out there earning their keep. He's sitting back having a laugh with his bank manager.

[boovidge]

tempted to agree but people said the same about o'shea and he's gone on to be good defender and a real part of the united squad.

[Charlie Darwin]

Serious as a heart attack.

Gibson is a total waster, too content to sit back and collect his pay packet rather than actually go out and do something. He won't be in the Premiership two years from now and he'll only have himself to blame.
You say this from the chair in front of your computer?

[Colbert Report]

You say this from the chair in front of your computer?

I work Monday to Friday, I'm allowed to kick back and bitch about overpaid footballers on the weekends.

[Charlie Darwin]

Well I work Monday-Sunday so I hope you won't mind me calling you a waster :D

[Colbert Report]

Well I work Monday-Sunday so I hope you won't mind me calling you a waster :D

Darron Gibson reminds me a bit of John Lennon in the late 70s. Instead of going out and making great music, he was content to stay at home and bake biscuits with the missus. I wonder if that's what young Darron did today.

[The Fly]

Darron Gibson reminds me a bit of John Lennon in the late 70s. Instead of going out and making great music, he was content to stay at home and bake biscuits with the missus. I wonder if that's what young Darron did today.

Great analogy. :rolleyes:

[tetsujin1979]

So who are the "rest of the Beatles" in this analogy?

[SwanVsDalton]

Duff is George, worth a solo cameo but not the future.

Dunney is Paul, has a successful solo career which is patchy as hell.

Kilbane is Ringo. A big pointy anchor.

[Jicked]

Serious as a heart attack.

Gibson is a total waster, too content to sit back and collect his pay packet rather than actually go out and do something. He won't be in the Premiership two years from now and he'll only have himself to blame.

I wont bother addressing what you said about Gibson as a person, but re: not closing down the Welsh player you mustn't have the slightest clue about how Ireland play football.

Put it this way, when Gibson isn't playing we've seen Andrews/Whelan/Green/whoever do the exact same thing. We hear the players constantly say how Trap is obsessed with the team keeping their shape. If it wasn't Jon Walters breaking his ****** getting back like you said, we've seen Kevin Doyle do that a hundred times under Trap's regime.

That's because if you've seen any Ireland game in the last two years you'd know that it's not Gibson's job to go close down a player in that position. Instead we let whoever the opposition is have the ball in front of our midfield all they want and they are free to move it side to side all day long, with the Kevin Doyle role being the only one closing down/pressurising teams in that position. Gibson or whoever the central midfielders are keep their shape until teams get well in to our half, at which case they get smothered. It means teams like Cyprus can have all the possession they want against us in that game at Croker yet never create a decent chance unless they put the ball in the mixer in the last seconds (though people will still come out and moan that we were somehow played off the park?!), though leaves us susceptible to an attacking midfielder getting in to positions between our two lines of four dragging the system out of shape (as Stilian Petrov did, and Anelka did in the home game)

So Gibson not closing down a player for no reason and instead keeping the shape is actually good play on his part, even if the idiot masses in the crowd are demanding he "gets stuck in" or "shows a bit of passion".

[Colbert Report]

I wont bother addressing what you said about Gibson as a person, but re: not closing down the Welsh player you mustn't have the slightest clue about how Ireland play football.

Put it this way, when Gibson isn't playing we've seen Andrews/Whelan/Green/whoever do the exact same thing. We hear the players constantly say how Trap is obsessed with the team keeping their shape. If it wasn't Jon Walters breaking his ****** getting back like you said, we've seen Kevin Doyle do that a hundred times under Trap's regime.

That's because if you've seen any Ireland game in the last two years you'd know that it's not Gibson's job to go close down a player in that position. Instead we let whoever the opposition is have the ball in front of our midfield all they want and they are free to move it side to side all day long, with the Kevin Doyle role being the only one closing down/pressurising teams in that position. Gibson or whoever the central midfielders are keep their shape until teams get well in to our half, at which case they get smothered. It means teams like Cyprus can have all the possession they want against us in that game at Croker yet never create a decent chance unless they put the ball in the mixer in the last seconds (though people will still come out and moan that we were somehow played off the park?!), though leaves us susceptible to an attacking midfielder getting in to positions between our two lines of four dragging the system out of shape (as Stilian Petrov did, and Anelka did in the home game)

So Gibson not closing down a player for no reason and instead keeping the shape is actually good play on his part, even if the idiot masses in the crowd are demanding he "gets stuck in" or "shows a bit of passion".

You're more than entitled to your opinion, but I never miss an Ireland match and I disagree wholeheartedly about what Gibson should have done in that situation.

[SkStu]

though i would tend to agree with your general point CR - he really is just following the tactical plan as set out by Trap. Jicked's post is bang on the money. If we played a different way, you might have seen Gibson being the first man.

Shape, shape, shape for Trap.