Darron Gibson

[Razors left peg]

Damn there should be some limits on total words someone can post in one sitting. If I want to read War and Peace Ill go to the library.
my thoughts exactly

[shakermaker1982]

I'm not sure just how much "faith" in DG Fergie really has. For when it comes to the big, "must-win" games, he clearly doesn't yet trust Gibson to be up to it. As I indicated above, it may suit Ferguson to keep him in the squad, since to sign another player to replace him would likely cost more (transfer fee and wages), with no guarantee that the new guy would fit in at OT, as DG so clearly does.
As for Fletcher, I suspect he is "the exception who proves the rule". That is, I can remember any number of young players who initially looked to be "the real deal" but subsequently failed to measure up. Yet Fletcher is just about the only player I can recall who looked a "journeyman" for so long, before turning out to be an absolutely top class player. Gibson might be another, but he is statistically at least as likely to be another eg Paul McShane imo.
More likely than either, however, is that he may become another John O'Shea or Wes Brown i.e. more than a journeyman, but less than a star.

(No offence to McShane, btw, who whatever else, is a whole-hearted player with an apparently excellent attitude)

Fergie doesn't pick Berbatov, Owen, Valencia, Neville and Wes Brown for the big games but that doesn't mean he doesn't trust or rate them. Competition for places at United is strong and it's no shame to be losing out to Scholes at this stage of Gibson's career. If Vidic was fit then Evan's misses out. If O'Shea was fit then Raphael would be omitted. Carrick misses the game at OT and that will give us some idea as to whether Gibson is trusted or not in the big games.

If Gibson goes on to reach O'Shea and Brown's level then I'll be delighted. A strong premiership quality operator is not to be sniffed at.

[ifk101]

Blah, blah, blah.

I repeat, you claimed that DG was never "our" (i.e. NI's) player. I merely reminded you that he most certainly was when he was playing for Northern Ireland.

He was never tied to NI, therefore, never "your" player. He chose to accept the invite given to him to play schoolboy for NI. But he never gave any indication that he would chose to represent NI indefinitely - and as such he was never "your" player. However by choosing to represent our team at senior level he has tied himself to us and therefore is "our" player.


The fact that he has dual nationality and subsequently chose to assert his other nationality does not overturn your original false claim; rather, it once again demonstrates your habit of hiding behind "straw men" in an effort to avoid admitting when when you get things wrong.

Gibson can only play international football for us - he is "our" player. Despite representing NI at schoolboy level he was never tied to NI and therefore never "your" player. For example, I wouldn't consider James McCarthy to be "our" player as he has yet to formally tie himself to us despite representing Ireland at underage level.

Anyways you shouldn't jump to conclusions so easily and misinterpret what I'm saying.

[Paulie]

I can't believe that you would take the trouble to read a couple of pages of someone else's discussion on an internet football forum, then take the trouble to compose a post such as the above, which has no reference to the original topic (i.e. Darron Gibson).
Indeed, I was tempted to post a "Jaysus" myself, until I remembered that that is the nature of internet discussion forums...

Well, of course not!
I find it hard to believe that after 850 posts, you still seem unable to comprehend how these Discussion boards work...

I thought the nature of a forum was to read and sometimes contribute to other people's discussions. You know as well as I do that sometimes these discussions digress from the original topic. I wasn't attempting to start a new dicussion, I was merely commenting on how petty I thought your obvious need to be right was. Anyway, you can write whatever you want on it now, I'm not going to respond as I really can't be bothered getting into it any further with you. As Tony Cascarino said, "If you were an ice cream, you'd probably lick yourself".

[EalingGreen]

He was never tied to NI, therefore, never "your" player. He chose to accept the invite given to him to play schoolboy for NI. But he never gave any indication that he would chose to represent NI indefinitely - and as such he was never "your" player. However by choosing to represent our team at senior level he has tied himself to us and therefore is "our" player.



Gibson can only play international football for us - he is "our" player. Despite representing NI at schoolboy level he was never tied to NI and therefore never "your" player. For example, I wouldn't consider James McCarthy to be "our" player as he has yet to formally tie himself to us despite representing Ireland at underage level.

Anyways you shouldn't jump to conclusions so easily and misinterpret what I'm saying.Semantics and evasion.

You claimed that DG was "never NI's player", I pointed out that even if he isn't now, nor won't be in future, he most certainly was when he represented Northern Ireland - the land of his birth. That much is incontrovertible.

You're like eg a Man City fan claiming that Carlos ("Welcome to Manchester") Tevez was never Manchester United's player...:rolleyes:

[co. down green]

At the time Brendan82 and I were having our discussion, it only took a moment to make a quick note in my E-Diary (along with Birthdays, events etc), then forget about it. Then when I opened my computer the other day, I got a reminder. I thought it would be interesting

lol, get a life eg.

[ifk101]

Semantics and evasion.

You claimed that DG was "never NI's player", I pointed out that even if he isn't now, nor won't be in future, he most certainly was when he represented Northern Ireland - the land of his birth.

It's quite simple - he was never tied to NI and therefore never was "your" player.


You're like eg a Man City fan claiming that Carlos ("Welcome to Manchester") Tevez was never Manchester United's player...:rolleyes:

Without knowing the ins and outs of said player's contract, I'm sure whatever contract existed tied him to United for the time period specified by that contract. Tevez was restricted in what club teams he could represent; he couldn't line out for United one week, Spurs the next, Chelsea the following week etc etc. In other words we can conclude he was a Manchester United player. Gibson never had a contract, obligation or anything else that tied him to NI. Therefore he never was a NI player. However now that he has played senior football for us, he is tied to us and cannot represent any other international team. Therefore he is "our" player.

[EalingGreen]

Fergie doesn't pick Berbatov, Owen, Valencia, Neville and Wes Brown for the big games but that doesn't mean he doesn't trust or rate them. Competition for places at United is strong and it's no shame to be losing out to Scholes at this stage of Gibson's career. If Vidic was fit then Evan's misses out. If O'Shea was fit then Raphael would be omitted.
As a journalist pointed out around the time of the Carling Cup Final vs Spurs (iirc), Ferguson effectively operates three teams within his squad.

These are his First XI, made up of players who will always start in the big, "must-win" games when available (eg Rooney, VDS, Vidic, Ferdinand, Evra etc)

Then there is his Second XI, made up of players to whom he is happy enough to turn to replace any First XI players who are unavailable for the big, "must-win" games (eg Neville, O'Shea, Brown, Evans etc)

Finally, there is his Third XI, made up of players who play in the less important games, usually to allow First XI players to rest, and when Second XI players are unavailable (fitness, injury, suspension etc). Ferguson only picks this category of player for the big games when it is absolutely unavoidable.

Whilst the status of some players is debateable (eg Berbatov hovers between 1st XI and 2nd XI, Owen between 2nd XI and 3rd XI), it seems clear to me that DG is in the Third XI - after all, he hasn't started a dozen EPL games in the three years since he first appeared in the senior team.

Now let me say that there is no shame in his current status whatever - not least when many such players could get a regular start in several other EPL teams. Moreover, he is still young enough to make the step-up to Second XI status, especially given Ferguson's current lack of funds to buy in new players.

I'd say the longer he's at OT, the better his chances of making the next step; that said, I really do not see him going all the way to the First XI, in the way that Fletcher has, and eg Da Silva, Nani, and Evans may do. Similarly, for the ROI, the longer he remains at OT, the better must be his chances of establishing himself as one of Trapattoni's starting XI; that said, with international teams only playing 4 or 5 competitive games each season, the opportunities to prove himself to the manager at that level are correspondingly fewer.


Carrick misses the game at OT and that will give us some idea as to whether Gibson is trusted or not in the big games.
Some idea, certainly, though to me it says more about how short Ferguson's squad is of really top class replacements. Imo, assuming MU progress to the next round and Carrick is available, if Ferguson should pick Carrick (a "Second XI" player, imo) in preference to Gibson, that will give more of an idea as to where Gibson stands in the pecking order at OT.


If Gibson goes on to reach O'Shea and Brown's level then I'll be delighted.Naturally.


A strong premiership quality operator is not to be sniffed at.Absolutely.

[EalingGreen]

It's quite simple - he was never tied to NI and therefore never was "your" player.



Without knowing the ins and outs of said player's contract, I'm sure whatever contract existed tied him to United for the time period specified by that contract. Tevez was restricted in what club teams he could represent; he couldn't line out for United one week, Spurs the next, Chelsea the following week etc etc. In other words we can conclude he was a Manchester United player. Gibson never had a contract, obligation or anything else that tied him to NI. Therefore he never was a NI player. However now that he has played senior football for us, he is tied to us and cannot represent any other international team. Therefore he is "our" player.He's not "tied" to ROI, either - see Stephen Ireland or Dean Kiely!

Gibson was Dual Qualified. When he played for NI, he was "ours". Since he switched to ROI he has been "yours". He may not reverse his switch.

Any other interpretation is, quite simply, bonkers - no matter how you try to dress it up.

[kingdomkerry]

Will EG and co just get over it. Gibson is an Ireland player the same as anyone born on the island is (if they want to be). With all the sour grapes still going on about gibson I wonder what its going to be like now that Shane Duffy has declared for Ireland and told the pub team as much.

[SkStu]

wow EG - you need to find yourself a life from somewhere. I would be ashamed to put a reminder in my diary for a years time to say "i told you so"... thats borderline insane.

[third policeman]

Will EG and co just get over it. Gibson is an Ireland player the same as anyone born on the island is (if they want to be). With all the sour grapes still going on about gibson I wonder what its going to be like now that Shane Duffy has declared for Ireland and told the pub team as much.


When exactly did this happen? And EG for once you have my sympathies in your altercation with IFK. the boy was clearly educated by Jesuists.

[EalingGreen]

Will EG and co just get over it.I am "over it". The fact that Gibson is not (yet at any rate) a top class international player made the process that much easier...


Gibson is an Ireland player the same as anyone born on the island is (if they want to be).Correction, "Gibson is a Republic of Ireland player the same as etc etc"


With all the sour grapes still going on about gibson I wonder what its going to be like now that Shane Duffy has declared for Ireland and told the pub team as muchSource?

[EalingGreen]

wow EG - you need to find yourself a life from somewhere. I would be ashamed to put a reminder in my diary for a years time to say "i told you so"... thats borderline insane.Yeah, and I'd be embarrassed to be a Bohs fan living in Saskatchewan...

Each to his own.

[SkStu]

the worst part about it is that you put this reminder in your calendar just to score (weak) points and then proceed to rehash the same old bitter, petty rubbish that you've been posting on the same subject for the last 2 or 3 years.

Its pathetic and as tiresome now as it was then.

Oh, and attacking my location? Seriously?

[Razors left peg]

personally I think its great having league of Ireland fans still keeping in touch with their club when in a different part of the world, cant believe that was used to try and have a go at someone!!!

[DeLorean]

I really don't see the big deal about EG setting a reminder or whatever. Brendan 82's original post was a bit provocative anyway and EG obviously just saw an opportunity to prove him wrong. Who knows maybe Brendan 82 set a reminder too but didn't follow up on it due to Gibson's obvious lack of progress!! guess we'll never know. I think people are just disappointed with the amount of progress Gibson has made, which is minimal in fairness from this time last year.

EG- Just on a side note I think Ferguson definitely sees Carrick as one of his First XI. He has played every big game I can think of since joining at the club, even at the expense of Scholes, Fletcher and Hargreaves. I definitely agree that Gibson is in Pot 3 though.

[Gather round]

personally I think its great having league of Ireland fans still keeping in touch with their club when in a different part of the world, cant believe that was used to try and have a go at someone!!!

The earlier suggestion of borderline insanity might be a clue? I don't agree with either of them, btw.

Kingdom Kerry- any chance of you getting over being a witless ****-stirrer?

[kingdomkerry]

I am "over it". The fact that Gibson is not (yet at any rate) a top class international player made the process that much easier...

It suits you to understate Gibson as a player. I think he will be invaluable to Ireland on the road to poland and ukrane.

Correction, "Gibson is a Republic of Ireland player the same as etc etc"

Have a look at the new Ireland jersey. Nowhere does it say "Republic of Ireland". We are Ireland short and simple.

Source?

I wont be giving my source, dont believe me if you dont want to. Why not put a note on your e-diary for a couple of months time and we'll see if I was right or not.

[EalingGreen]

Oh, and attacking my location? Seriously?
Calm down, it was only a joke - if I were more used to the new layout, I'd have included one of these: ;)

For the record, I've been to Canada four or five times and hope to go again next month - it's one of my favourite countries.

(Mind you, I've never been tempted to venture down Saskatoon way...:p)

[EalingGreen]

I really don't see the big deal about EG setting a reminder or whatever. Brendan 82's original post was a bit provocative anyway and EG obviously just saw an opportunity to prove him wrong. Who knows maybe Brendan 82 set a reminder too but didn't follow up on it due to Gibson's obvious lack of progress!! guess we'll never know. I think people are just disappointed with the amount of progress Gibson has made, which is minimal in fairness from this time last year.
Cheers, DL.



EG- Just on a side note I think Ferguson definitely sees Carrick as one of his First XI. He has played every big game I can think of since joining at the club, even at the expense of Scholes, Fletcher and Hargreaves.If I'd been posting a year or two ago, I'd definitely have agreed; it's just that I got the impression he's regressed a bit this season. Maybe you're right, though.

[SkStu]

(Mind you, I've never been tempted to venture down Saskatoon way...:p)

which, unluckily for my argument, clearly demonstrates your sanity and my lack of... :(

[EalingGreen]

personally I think its great having league of Ireland fans still keeping in touch with their club when in a different part of the world, cant believe that was used to try and have a go at someone!!!
Evidently you're not aware of what Saskatchewan's reputation is really like, so here's a clue.

When I Googled "Saskatchewan Jokes", this one was top of the pile:

http://www.indefual.net/canada/jokes/saskatchewan.html

That's right, even "Patriotism Canada" takes the rise out of Saskatoonies...

P.S. I'd have used a couple of smilies in this post, to demonstrate that I am still only joking, if only I could find where the Hell they've gone!

[Razors left peg]

Evidently you're not aware of what Saskatchewan's reputation is really like, so here's a clue.

When I Googled "Saskatchewan Jokes", this one was top of the pile:

http://www.indefual.net/canada/jokes/saskatchewan.html

That's right, even "Patriotism Canada" takes the rise out of Saskatoonies...

P.S. I'd have used a couple of smilies in this post, to demonstrate that I am still only joking, if only I could find where the Hell they've gone!

Ah fair enough mate, can be hard to tell sometimes when people on here are havin bit of craic.my bad

[EalingGreen]

I am "over it". The fact that Gibson is not (yet at any rate) a top class international player made the process that much easier...

It suits you to understate Gibson as a player

Whether it "suits" me or not, I'm still of the opinion that Gibson is not (yet) international class, an opinion evidently shared by a certain Signor Trapattoni...


I think he will be invaluable to Ireland on the road to poland and ukrane.

Possibly, possibly not. Either way, I won't be making any confident predictions. Then again, I'm not "Brendan 82"...

(Unless, of course, by "invaluable on the road to Poland and Ukraine" you mean that Darron is a good man with a shovel and a barrow load of tarmac!)




Correction, "Gibson is a Republic of Ireland player the same as etc etc"

Have a look at the new Ireland jersey. Nowhere does it say "Republic of Ireland". We are Ireland short and simple.
You may call yourself whatever you like. Personally, I prefer to go by the authority of these people:
http://www.fifa.com/associations/association=irl/ranking/gender=m/index.html

P.S. I didn't know you were "short", though I've long thought of you as "simple"...




Source?

I wont be giving my source, dont believe me if you dont want to.Actually, I don't believe you.

You see, only a week or two ago, Shane's Da wrote a long post about him on OWC. I referred to it on the Shane Duffy thread (09/02/10, page 12, #225). My post included the following direct quotation from Duffy Sr. (my emphasis):

"...right now the dicision is purly in shanes hand what ever he dicides to do we will back him 100%.one thing is for sure there is no way shane would be were he is todayif it was not for n/ireland.from paddy mcgongle in the milk cup to dessie currie in the victory shield then paul kee u/17s to steve beadlehole u/19s 21s and nigal himself shane has so much respect for all these men any rightfull so all topmen,shane loves to play for n/ireland and always has done"



Why not put a note on your e-diary for a couple of months time and we'll see if I was right or not.It might not take a couple of months. As I say, I try to avoid extravagant predictions, but I wouldn't be too surprised to see you embarrassed further come the 3rd March...

[Acornvilla]

right well all i can say is who givs a crap...

anyway united have two games this week away to everton playin west ham so expect him to feature in the hammers match definitly. if not i think he has no future at united

[geysir]

I offered a detailed rebuttal of your post. The fact that your only recourse is petty, ad hominem abuse exposes the poverty of your case. You might have been better to say nothing. As usual

You flatter yourself :) play the victim and throw in the sarcasm.
Being called a begrudger is not ad hominem. Talk about over sensitivity!
Begrudgery is an accurate description of your reply. Your opinions predictably begrudged the quality in Ireland's qual group and considering a very good performance by France at Croke Pk, you begrudge the efforts in the play offs, claim that France were there for the taking. All too predictable opinion. It took a very good performance from Ireland in Paris to have France for the taking.
You begrudged Gibson, saying it would take 3 or 4 injuries for him to be considered to start in the NI team. Maybe yes, maybe not, but it sounds embittered and coloured rather than having a semblance of objectivity, much like your opinions on Ireland's qual campaign.
On the contrary compared to ours, NI's group was there for the taking as both top seeds Poland and the Czechs failed to get going. NI recovered well but let a great opportunity slip to finish second.

I'd say Gibson will still be in the Ireland squad for the next campaign. No mean achievement, he is still a work in progress.

[livehead1]

Yawn, are there people still giving this poster the time of day? Can you not get back to the topic; I think it's only a matter of time before the inevitable headline of "Gibson to leave at end of season"

[Fizzer]

Jesus, I wish I never bothered looking at this thread. Whadda mistaka to maka

[Predator]

Will EG and co just get over it. Gibson is an Ireland player the same as anyone born on the island is (if they want to be). With all the sour grapes still going on about gibson I wonder what its going to be like now that Shane Duffy has declared for Ireland and told the pub team as much.
Has there been an official declaration on Duffy? Wasn't Moyes in Dublin recently too?* I had been hearing rumours a while back, but nothing official. Care to share some of your 'insider' knowledge? :) I should hope that in the event that he does declare for RoI, there would be no sour grapes, since it is, as Duffy's father pointed out in EG's quote, entirely the kid's decision.

I don't have any issue with EG's post in response to Brendan's one from a year ago. I watched the 'Cwying' youtube clip and had a chuckle - great scene!

*Edit: Just found this: http://www.fai.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=100686:david-moyes-and-niall-quinn-attend-faiuefa-pro-licence&catid=85:coach-education&Itemid=97

[Razors left peg]

Has there been an official declaration on Duffy? Wasn't Moyes in Dublin recently too?* I had been hearing rumours a while back, but nothing official. Care to share some of your 'insider' knowledge? :) I should hope that in the event that he does declare for RoI, there would be no sour grapes, since it is, as Duffy's father pointed out in EG's quote, entirely the kid's decision.

I don't have any issue with EG's post in response to Brendan's one from a year ago. I watched the 'Cwying' youtube clip and had a chuckle - great scene!

*Edit: Just found this: http://www.fai.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=100686:david-moyes-and-niall-quinn-attend-faiuefa-pro-licence&catid=85:coach-education&Itemid=97

just looking at the link there it gives the list of people who did the uefa licence course and was glad to see Kenny Cunninghams name on the list. Hes the man I would love to see take over the under21s

[carloz]

just looking at the link there it gives the list of people who did the uefa licence course and was glad to see Kenny Cunninghams name on the list. Hes the man I would love to see take over the under21s

Agreed. I know he gets some stick from people here for his pundit work but he always knows what he is talking about, and always struck me as a very very clever player, as well as a leader. All good qualities for a manager

[yapster]

All this doesn't make him a good coach. Ireland need foreign coaches at all levels to nuture the talent available.

[Closed Account]

All this doesn't make him a good coach. Ireland need foreign coaches at all levels to nuture the talent available.
You cant be serious. What satisfaction do you get from being a WUM? Have you nothing better to do with your time?

[Razors left peg]

You cant be serious. What satisfaction do you get from being a WUM? Have you nothing better to do with your time?

he has already admitted before that he just posts to have a bit of banter by winding people up

[Crosby87]

Poor Gibsons thread is never about Gibson. Hope he never comes on here. Im all for free speech but are there no mods on this website?

[Acornvilla]

tatally agree every time i try to talk about the lad someone makes a silly point about totaly unrelated crap no-one cares about

[yapster]

You cant be serious. What satisfaction do you get from being a WUM? Have you nothing better to do with your time?


All I said that is that you can't judge a player you like to be a good coach if he hasn't coached yet. The same was said about Givens and look at him. I do hope Cunningham continues in the game somewhat but by experience good players mostly do not make good coaches, I DO hope I'm wrong about Kenny and I would wish him well if he got it but as I say you got to give a juggement on merit only.


Back to Gibson, I do think he has the potential and the mental strength to make it as a top pro and a vital cog in future Irish teams.

[Acornvilla]

big chance he could feature in the next 2 games

[Crosby87]

Would be nice for him to get some time villa.

[DeLorean]

Would be nice for him to get some time villa.

Yeah it would of course. In fairness though we were saying the same thing this time last year before the Final against Spurs, there has been zero progress in my opinion. In fact, when you consider Scholes is a year older, Anderson is completely out of favour and Hargreaves looks to be as good as gone it really doesn't look good for Gibson at United. He couldn't have wished for a better chance really and I really don't think he's even being considered for the important games.

[Charlie Darwin]

To be fair, Carrick is always going to be Gibson's direct competitor and he's having probably his best season in United's colours, while Fletcher has just kicked on from last season.

[Fergie's Son]

I don't think Carrick is playing particularly well. I'm not saying that Gibson is better but I have been underwhelmed by Carrick thus far.

[Charlie Darwin]

Well Carrick's not a brilliant player to begin with, but he is probably on his best form since joining the club.

[Acornvilla]

wl west ham on tuesday following a bad display so if he is ever to be picked again nows the time if he starts this game its probably his last shot at winning fergie over tbh

[Colbert Report]

Lads, we're talking about one of our players potentially breaking into one of the world's top teams, if not the top team. Let's cut him some slack. I'm sure he could go out on loan next season or maybe even transfer permanently to a smaller club like Fulham, Bolton, or Sunderland and give it a go. I'd love to see what this guy could do if he was a fixture in the starting line-up of any Premiership team.

[Acornvilla]

so would we all but prefrably in a united shirt so i hope when he gets his chance next he takes is and dosent hide

[drummerboy]

I reckon Gibson will have a very decent career in the Premiership, but not with one of the top four clubs. He will eventually get himself a transfer to someone like Stoke, Burnley, or a host of other clubs. He will definitely be an big asset to the Irish national team in years to come.

[DeLorean]

I just think he's gone from being a major prospect to an average one. I would have expected to have seen more promising signs by now, he's not a kid anymore. I do take your point Colbert that he is trying to make it at an incredibly high level but I would just like to see him impressing more in the odd game he does play. I'd be very surprised if he started tonight seeing as it's a must win game for United. He'll probably come on if they're up 2-0 or more in the 2nd half.

[Acornvilla]

starts today already put in a dangerous cross