Darron Gibson

[charliesboots]

kingdomHoop your last paragraph is incorrect, it is not the united kingdom of great britain, northern ireland is part of the United kingdom not great britain

"Great Britain is the largest island of the British Isles. It lies to the northwest of Continental Europe with Ireland to the west and comprises the larger part of the territory of the United Kingdom."

"The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (usually shortened to the United Kingdom, the UK, or Britain[1]) is a country[2] and sovereign state that lies to the northwest of Continental Europe with the Republic of Ireland to the west."

Where is that from? It's wrong on at least one fact. There is no state called the Republic of Ireland.

Britain is not a shortening of the UK, it's a part of it. The Great part of Great Britain stems from it being larger than Brittany and goes way back to Norman times when they were the one kingdom. The modern day term "Britain" then is what is referred to in "the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland".

Northern Ireland is a part of the United Kingdom but not part of Britain. However, the UN has recognised that when referring to persons from the UK, the term "British" can be used.

It's also worth pointing out that it is generally accepted by both sections of the community on the north that you are entitled to call yourself "British" if thats how you feel, "Irish" if that's how you feel or "Northern Irish" if that's how you feel.

[charliesboots]

Oh yeah. Why do people get upset when the term six counties is used. Is it because of the people who use it? The area in question is six counties after all.

I'm sure Darron Gibson would love this stuff!

[EalingGreen]

All this discussion about a player who may never make the grade anyway. He certainly hasnt done anything to get into the Ireland squad so i can only conclude that its a political decision to get him tied to us. This could be a trivia question in a few years time - "name the Derry City reserve team player who got 10 minutes action in euro qualifier..."

Aside from the fact that Gibson is a MU player (not DCFC), I can't believe that the FAI would allow Stan to risk the ROI being thrown out of the competition were it proved they'd selected an ineligible player, merely to "tie down" a player who wants to play for you anyhow.
I think it's much more likely an example of Stan's idiosyncratic selection policy. After all, Gibson has a better playing pedigree than e.g. Terry Dixon.

[paul_oshea]

Britain is not a shortening of the UK, it's a part of it


Ya I know, its not I disagreed with that also, but i think what they are trying to say is, people just like Khoop refer to britain and the uk as the same thing, when they are two different things. Britain does not include northern ireland.

[paul_oshea]

Khoop, I am just trying to point out as many people dont realise the difference, and some on here take what is said here as gospel, therefore they fall into the same category. I just wanted to clarify to ensure those people didnt fall into this trap. :)

Btw I am half joking there!! ;)

[EalingGreen]

out of interest, do people from the north call their team ireland? i call my team ireland, so when referring to the team in a forum is it ok to say ireland. i think so. this debate serves to highlight the identity problem of people from NI.

you've spent so much time tapping the keys about whether we should be ROI and you NI that at this stage we're not much time has been saved at all. but i suspect your point is not to help us type quicker, though i would appreciate any tips on this matter so i can improve my work ethic and live the capitalist dream..

whatever about the historical foundations of the IFA i think nowadays the FAI is more entitled to the ireland tag given the north prefix to the jurisdiction covered by the IFA, and in turn is ruled by the United Kingdom of Great Britain. while the FAI is within the republic of ireland, if it was the republic of southern ireland i would think differently, what do you think?

From my first couple of NI matches back in 1970, I do recall there was still the odd throwback to the days of the 50's and 60's (and before) when the team was known (officially) as "Ireland" and referred to as such by the fans - "Come on, Ireland" was to be heard, or songs referring to "Ireland", where that scanned better than "Northern Ireland".

Anyhow, when it comes to football at least, NI fans have absolutely no "identity crisis" these days: we know exactly who we are!

As for my typing ROI/NI etc, my point is that we are one team from Ireland and you are the other - it's an identification (or identity?) thing again.

As for the FAI claiming "Ireland" for its football, you're quite simply wrong in every respect bar your own imagination or political aspirations.

I didn't understand your point re. UK/Gt.Britain etc. NI is one of four constituent parts of the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland". It's really that simple.
As for footballing matters, we have no problems here, either. The clue is in the terms "Irish Football Association" and "Northern Ireland"

:D

[kingdom hoop]

Khoop, I am just trying to point out as many people dont realise the difference, and some on here take what is said here as gospel, therefore they fall into the same category. I just wanted to clarify to ensure those people didnt fall into this trap. :)

Btw I am half joking there!!


no worries, i actually thought you were fully joking so i just decided to play along. i'd kick your ass at geography anyway. capital of botswana??? i know, and without relying on that part of my brain called wikipedia:)

ealinggreen you are responsible for all this messing about:) why does it bother you so much? if your country fosters a sense of national pride there shouldnt be any worries about players decamping. i know thats a cheap jibe, but maybe it really is time to come together. there are massive amounts of new people in ireland now, it might be easier to subsume everyone with one fell swoop. start over again. but no i guess your 'country' is too important to its citizens, so important that they wont represent it?

[paul_oshea]

i spose one way of looking at this is, what if a person of latvian parents is born in norn iron and in 20 years he wants to play for ROI ( lets keep all happy here ), does that person really have any association to the republic? Other than he wants to play for a better team ;)

[EalingGreen]

ealinggreen you are responsible for all this messing about:) why does it bother you so much? if your country fosters a sense of national pride there shouldnt be any worries about players decamping. i know thats a cheap jibe, but maybe it really is time to come together. there are massive amounts of new people in ireland now, it might be easier to subsume everyone with one fell swoop. start over again. but no i guess your 'country' is too important to its citizens, so important that they wont represent it?

Although I have views and opinions on politics, pretty much like most other people, I have no intention of getting into a debate on matters which are purely political, on this thread, at this time.

Instead, I am here joining in this debate since I am a passionate football fan, especially when it involves "my" team, NI, as this thread and the Ahern thread do.

All I am trying to do is understand the views of ROI fans, where it concerns me and my team, and in turn to try and state my views for them to take on board.

As such, I am trying to get across the point that the NI team exists just as proudly as the ROI or any other team.

When it comes to a "single" team (re Ahern), I don't think ROI fans quite understand the opposition which NI fans have to such a concept. It is not a "negative" thing, for me at least; rather it is a "positive" thing: I'm quite happy for us to be NI, and I don't wish you see my team disappear after all these years, whether merged into a brand new entity, or subsumed into another country's team. And that counts whether we are talking about Ireland/ROI, or about UK/England.

As for the Gibson matter, I personally have nothing against someone having political, or even sporting, aspirations which differ from my own. My problem with "Gibson"-type cases is this.
Where the IFA has developed a player - and Gibson learned his trade via the NI Schools Cup/NI schools international set-up, plus at Institute FC in Drumahoe (not DCFC) - it is galling to see the fruits of that effort enjoyed by another Association. And I would say this were it e.g. England or Norway or any other country wanting him.
Second, I have seen evidence which persuades me that at least some players may not actually have made the first approach to the FAI; rather, it looks to have been the FAI which made contact with (otherwise settled) NI youngsters.
Third, I simply do not want to see the NI team "reduced" to drawing its players and support purely from one community. Never mind the effect it would have on our playing strength, nor the fact that my greatest heroes include Jennings, Armstrong, O'Neill etc, I simply do not want to see "sporting apartheid".
Finally, what people do not seem to appreciate is that it is not NI who may actually prevent Gibson from representing ROI; if it happens, it will be FIFA, since it will be their application of their Rulebook which will prevail.
Indeed, though I've no doubt you'll not thank us for this (:D ), if the IFA's objections prevent you from being docked points or even thrown out for fielding an ineligible player vs San Marino, this will actually be to your advantage!
Otherwise, if we don't, and it turns out Gibson (or another) is ineligible, sooner or later another team is going to spot this and take action without notice.
But as I say, I don't really expect your gratitude on this last point...;)

[EalingGreen]

i spose one way of looking at this is, what if a person of latvian parents is born in norn iron and in 20 years he wants to play for ROI ( lets keep all happy here ), does that person really have any association to the republic? Other than he wants to play for a better team ;)

You actually make a very good point, Paul, except for the very last last bit.

(Somehow, I don't think his parents would let him mistake which is the "better" team. Sure didn't we kick Latvia's butts only three or four months back?)

[youngirish]

(Somehow, I don't think his parents would let him mistake which is the "better" team. Sure didn't we kick Latvia's butts only three or four months back?)
No you scraped a 1-0 win at home.

[eirebhoy]

All this discussion about a player who may never make the grade anyway.
Why, do you think Gibson will be the last player from Northern Ireland that wants to play for us?

[EalingGreen]

No you scraped a 1-0 win at home.

No "scraping" about it! Remember, 1-0 can be a very deceptive scoreline unlike, say, 5-2...

Anyhow, when was the last time the ROI "scraped home" in a competitive fixture? (And when I say "competitive", I don't mean San Marino, Cyprus or the Faroes!)

:D

[Billsthoughts]

eh my post was just about the 5-2 loss to cyprus....it was deleted cause I had the audacity make a refferance to celtic in another thread I assume...
basically that 5-2 is gonna be noose around are necks for years.....and ealing green is right topoint it out to anyone who slags his team....staunton out...

[Qwerty]

Where the IFA has developed a player - and Gibson learned his trade via the NI Schools Cup/NI schools international set-up, plus at Institute FC in Drumahoe (not DCFC) - it is galling to see the fruits of that effort enjoyed by another Association.


Maybe in future the IFA should ask players whether they support the Ireland or Northern Ireland before investing so heavily in them. I take it you haven't worked in the real world where companies lose people they have invested in heavily to other companies every day...that's life isn't it.



Second, I have seen evidence which persuades me that at least some players may not actually have made the first approach to the FAI; rather, it looks to have been the FAI which made contact with (otherwise settled) NI youngsters.


If that's true the IFA should act upon it. The FAI in the recent past made approaches to Aaron Lennon and Gary Cahill which I feel were outrageous.



Finally, what people do not seem to appreciate is that it is not NI who may actually prevent Gibson from representing ROI; if it happens, it will be FIFA, since it will be their application of their Rulebook which will prevail.
Indeed, though I've no doubt you'll not thank us for this (:D ), if the IFA's objections prevent you from being docked points or even thrown out for fielding an ineligible player vs San Marino, this will actually be to your advantage!


Surely you must be a lawyer? The rules were crystal clear as of 2006, I'm not sure what has changed. FIFA may be the referee here but IFA has lodged a complaint long after Gibson first appeared for Ireland. Why would the IFA try and stop Gibson realizing a personal ambition I ask myself? They have had plenty time why wait until he is called up for a senior squad after he has played at U19, U21 and B level...

[co. down green]

Well his Uncle speaks common sense.

A right to self-determination when it suits these guys !

I don't understand the nuance regarding the Deeny or Deery reference, what is being suggested?

The point I was trying to make was that the IFA didn't seem bothered when Players opted to play for Ireland in the past.

Deeny,Geery Crossley,McStay etc... have all represented Ireland at various underage levels over the last number of years without a boo from the Windsor Park authorities.

So what makes gibson different ? I think the fact that has the ability to make it at club & international level has scared the IFA & more so the fact that Ireland have told the IFA that the unwritten rule regarding eligability is no longer is in place.

I have it on good authority that Ireland's thinking on the matter changed when a number of players approached the FAI and asked for the right to be considered for selection. Derry City have also advised players that their choice of international team is a matter for themselves and did not automatically direct players towards the Northern association.(Rightly so in my opinion)

The IFA seemed unconcerned about this and made zero contact with UEFA regarding Derry players - Deery or Mukandi's selection for Ireland.

It was only after Michael O'Connor and Tony Kane approached the FAI and were named in the squad for an u21 friendly last Autumn (along with Lurgan player Marc Wilson and Derry's Kevin Deery) that the IFA became interested again.

Now i'm not sure if it was because they were Belfast lads (rather than players from Derry) or not but it seemed to get 'backs up' at the IFA and they started questioning the rights of players to play for Ireland.

Another young player from Derry Ruairí Harkin played for Ireland u19's last August without any statements or outcry from the IFA.

Its a simple case of sour grapes from the IFA.

They really need to get a grasp of the realities in the North. They need to realise that a large proportion of population have supported and followed Ireland for many years and the natural outcome of that is that young supporters will want to play for their country.( As is the case for Gibson, travelled to games in Lansdowne as a kid , family all support Ireland etc..)

[cavan_fan]

Indeed, though I've no doubt you'll not thank us for this (:D ), if the IFA's objections prevent you from being docked points or even thrown out for fielding an ineligible player vs San Marino, this will actually be to your advantage!
Otherwise, if we don't, and it turns out Gibson (or another) is ineligible, sooner or later another team is going to spot this and take action without notice.
But as I say, I don't really expect your gratitude on this last point...;)

This is absolutely true, there seems to be a view that if the IFA just stayed out of it it would be OK. But any team he plays against can and probably will complain.

[dr_peepee]

As for the Gibson matter, I personally have nothing against someone having political, or even sporting, aspirations which differ from my own. My problem with "Gibson"-type cases is this.
Where the IFA has developed a player - and Gibson learned his trade via the NI Schools Cup/NI schools international set-up, plus at Institute FC in Drumahoe (not DCFC) - it is galling to see the fruits of that effort enjoyed by another Association. And I would say this were it e.g. England or Norway or any other country wanting him.

What?... Like Ryan Giggs with Engalnd then Wales. I don't see the difference. He played schoolboy football for Northen Ireland simply because he went to school in Northern Ireland. There was a comment from his Original NI manager at u15 (i think) recently who admitted that he knew Gibsons heart was always with the south, so where's the shock after representing us at every level since.

The IFA would be bettter servied being more introspective and addressing the issues that warrant players not wanting to represent them in the first place... I.E The recent Passport debacle, Neill Lennon and one look at the a NI footballing message board would be a place to start. Their current agenda is classic deflection.

[liaml]

Speaking as someone from the North the IFA's actions simply baffle me.

Instead of building bridges with my community the IFA effectively tries to impose British nationality upon us. It saddens me that they're so out of touch with the Nationalist community (42% of the population) and it is certainly against the spirit of the Good Friday agreement. Surely the IFA should be asking itself why Nationalists (by and large) do not support NI and would rather play for Ireland (or RoI if you prefer).

EalingGreen - in relation to Gibson playing for Inst. Are you suggesting Nationalists should not play for local teams if the intend to declare for Ireland (or RoI if you prefer)?


-Liam

[co. down green]

This is absolutely true, there seems to be a view that if the IFA just stayed out of it it would be OK. But any team he plays against can and probably will complain.

FIFA confirmed the situation in a letter to the FAI in October last year.

They received correspondence from FIFA which backs up Gibson's status as a prospective full Ireland international.

"The FAI only selects players who are eligible and wish to play for the Republic of Ireland. This is in line with FIFA's position as outlined in October last year," said an FAI spokesman.

That FIFA position came in the form of a letter which was sent to both associations and stated that: "The existing situation in Northern Ireland allows players to choose whether they wish to represent the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland."

[EalingGreen]

Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Where the IFA has developed a player - and Gibson learned his trade via the NI Schools Cup/NI schools international set-up, plus at Institute FC in Drumahoe (not DCFC) - it is galling to see the fruits of that effort enjoyed by another Association.


Maybe in future the IFA should ask players whether they support the Ireland or Northern Ireland before investing so heavily in them. I take it you haven't worked in the real world where companies lose people they have invested in heavily to other companies every day...that's life isn't it.

I have worked in the "real world" and it would appear I understood better where I was than you! You see, international football is not the same as "the real world", since companies don't impose a "nationality" qualification before employing staff. Indeed employment laws often prohibit such discrimination.
A much better analogy would be between club football and the real world; as you will know, when a club signs a contracted player from another club, they are obliged to compensate them (transfer fee)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Finally, what people do not seem to appreciate is that it is not NI who may actually prevent Gibson from representing ROI; if it happens, it will be FIFA, since it will be their application of their Rulebook which will prevail.

Surely you must be a lawyer? The rules were crystal clear as of 2006, I'm not sure what has changed. FIFA may be the referee here but IFA has lodged a complaint long after Gibson first appeared for Ireland. Why would the IFA try and stop Gibson realizing a personal ambition I ask myself? They have had plenty time why wait until he is called up for a senior squad after he has played at U19, U21 and B level...

The "change" that occurred was an addition to FIFA's Rulebook made in May 2004, whereby they tightened the eligibility requirements. It took until the end of 2006 before the IFA raised the issue with FIFA i.e. before Gibson was called up by Stan to the senior squad.
As to why it took 18 months for the IFA to respond, I'd guess that it is a combination of the following.
1. When it was just a few minor players at under-age level, seemingly mostly from Derry (and Derry City), it may be that the IFA felt if it didn't escalate further, it wasn't worth compromising their generally good relationship with the FAI (Setanta Cup etc). However, when it began to involve more prominent players, who had represented NI at U-19 and U-21 level (e.g. Kane, O'Connor), it could not be ignored further.
2. The Rules having been amended following events in Africa, I guess the implications weren't immediately apparent to the IFA. When they did get round to it, they will presumably have had to take advice, which takes time. They presumably also had informal contacts with the FAI to discuss the issue before raising it with FIFA.
3. Administratively, the IFA makes the FAI appear positively slick and professional by comparison! The list of screw-ups over other, similar matters is endless. I have no doubt whatever that a (the?) reason for their delay was sheer incompetence!

As for the IFA having it in for Gibson personally, I'm afraid there is no evidence that is is so, since the IFA raised the general issue with FIFA some months ago. When FIFA responded by asking for examples of how the FAI may have broken the Rules, Gibson was just the most recent and high-profile of a number of examples cited. My guess is that if they have a gripe, it is not with Gibson, who had never hidden his aspirations; rather it is more likely with one or two other individuals who had appeared to be reasonably settled in the NI camp, then suddenly "remembered" that they had actually wanted to represent the ROI all along. "Stringing people along" is the phrase which might be applied?

[EalingGreen]

The point I was trying to make was that the IFA didn't seem bothered when Players opted to play for Ireland in the past.

Deeny,Geery Crossley,McStay etc... have all represented Ireland at various underage levels over the last number of years without a boo from the Windsor Park authorities.

It was only after Michael O'Connor and Tony Kane approached the FAI and were named in the squad for an u21 friendly last Autumn (along with Lurgan player Marc Wilson and Derry's Kevin Deery) that the IFA became interested again.


They really need to get a grasp of the realities in the North. They need to realise that a large proportion of population have supported and followed Ireland for many years and the natural outcome of that is that young supporters will want to play for their country.( As is the case for Gibson, travelled to games in Lansdowne as a kid , family all support Ireland etc..)

Actually, you are being self-contradictory here, CDG.

It is true that the IFA didn't object for a "number of years". Now I accept that this may partly have been because some/most of the players concerned weren't very good (Henry McStay etc), but primarily it will have been because the Rules were in the FAI's favour. (Indeed, I seem to recall the IFA saying at the time that they didn't object)
It was only a change in the Rules in May 2004 that permitted the IFA to query their application in the Irish context.
As for why they still took 18 months to raise this formally, as I indicated in another post, this was most likely down to a combination of the need to consult as to the Rule change, a preference to resolve it informally and (typical) straightforward incompetence!

As for their need to "get a grasp of the realities in the North", I've no doubt that this is so. However, others in the North need to accept that no National Association is ever going to see players switch to another country lightly (including players whose career they've helped get off the ground), especially when it may be that such switches are contrary to FIFA's Rules*.


* - If it should turn out that the FAI is breaking the Rules, it will be for FIFA to "get a grasp of the realities in the North" and grant the ROI a specific exemption, if sympathetic.

[EalingGreen]

What?... Like Ryan Giggs with Engalnd then Wales. I don't see the difference. He played schoolboy football for Northen Ireland simply because he went to school in Northern Ireland.

The IFA would be bettter servied being more introspective and addressing the issues that warrant players not wanting to represent them in the first place... I.E The recent Passport debacle, Neill Lennon and one look at the a NI footballing message board would be a place to start. Their current agenda is classic deflection.

Yours is a false analogy, since Ryan Giggs's mother was from Wales. Had Gibson a parent or grandparent from the ROI, the IFA would have no complaints.

As for the rest of your mini-rant:
1. What you term the "Passport debacle" derived from a FIFA Directive which, following an incident which was nothing to do with the IFA or NI, stated that all international footballers had to carry the same Passport as the country within whom their Association was located. Having been sprung upon them, the IFA's response to this entirely unwelcome imposition was successfully to lobby FIFA to grant them an exemption, whereby NI players could continue to present an Irish Passport for ID purposes should they prefer, a practice to which the IFA has never objected.
2. As for the Lennon incident, how on earth are the IFA to be blamed for this? The fact is that after picking NL 39 times for NI, he was honoured by them with the captaincy. This caused some unknown individual to phone a threat to a Newspaper, which NL had to take seriously. You're not suggesting that having made him captain, it was the IFA who then made the call?
3. As for "a NI footballing message board", there are a number which qualify for this description, but regardless of which one you mean, the IFA has no more control over them than they have over this one.

P.S. Details of the IFA's "agenda" on such matters are to found below; I would advise you to consult it, since it might prevent you posting such ignorant, irrelevant and prejudiced drivel in the future.

http://www.irishfa.com/grassroots/football-for-all/

[Qwerty]

The "change" that occurred was an addition to FIFA's Rulebook made in May 2004, whereby they tightened the eligibility requirements.

I'm open to correction on the following but I believe that change only applies to players aged over 21 - Kevin Nolan being the player most people on this forum are aware of.

Article 15 of the FIFA statues still stands AFAIK and applies to Gibson, Kane and O'Connor

Part 4 states: Any Player who wishes to exercise this right to change Associations shall submit a written and substantiated request to the FIFA general secretariat. After submitting the request, the Player is no longer
qualified to play for his current Association’s team. The Players’
Status Committee shall decide on the request.

I assume the FAI has already had clearance from FIFA so any chance of them being docked points or kicked out is moot as they have followed regulations.

For players U21 the FIFA requirement is:

Up to his 21st birthday, a player may only once request changing
the Association for which he is eligible to play international
matches. A Player may exercise this right to change Associations
only if he has not played at “A" international level for his
current Association and if at the time of his first full or
partial appearance in an international match in an official competition
of any other category, he already had such nationalities.

As reported recently by the irish media:

"The FAI only selects players who are eligible and wish to play for the Republic of Ireland. This is in line with FIFA's position as outlined in October last year," said an FAI spokesman.

That FIFA position came in the form of a letter which was sent to both associations and stated that: "The existing situation in Northern Ireland allows players to choose whether they wish to represent the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland."

Under the terms of the Good Friday agreement, persons born in Northern Ireland are entitled to both Irish and UK citizenship and can hold both passports.


I do sympathize with you on Kane and O'Connor and as I said before if the FAI approached these players rather than vice versa then I think the FAI have acted in bad faith. I believe the IFA and FAI have a gentleman's agreement not to approach each others players.



On another note, FIFA reworked their member eligibility in 2004 so that new members have to be countries recognized as independent by the international community. So if NI Wales, England or Scotland were to resign from FIFA and then re-apply for membership by FIFA's own rules they wouldn't be allowed back in. Of course FIFA don't enfore their rules as they allowed New Caledonia to join recently and they are a dependency of France!

FIFA has more than once acknowledged the exceptions that are NI and Ireland, as well as Wales, England, Scotland.

I can understand your annoyance but I would be very surprised if FIFA found a problem with any of these players playing for Ireland. At worst I think the FAI has broken a gentleman's agreement.

[EalingGreen]

Instead of building bridges with my community the IFA effectively tries to impose British nationality upon us. It saddens me that they're so out of touch with the Nationalist community (42% of the population) and it is certainly against the spirit of the Good Friday agreement. Surely the IFA should be asking itself why Nationalists (by and large) do not support NI and would rather play for Ireland (or RoI if you prefer).

EalingGreen - in relation to Gibson playing for Inst. Are you suggesting Nationalists should not play for local teams if the intend to declare for Ireland (or RoI if you prefer)?

-Liam

Liam, how is the IFA trying to "impose British nationality" upon anyone? This is a Northern Ireland matter, not a British one, since England, Scotland and Wales have nothing to do with it. As such, the IFA is objecting to another Association "locking out" the IFA from selecting NI-born players in a manner which they (the IFA) consider to be contrary to FIFA's rulebook.
In fact, on the one issue which did directly affect NI footballers "Britishness", the IFA successfully lobbied FIFA for an exemption which allowed NI players to continue to use their Irish Passports where they preferred it over a British one!
As for the GFA, that is all well and good, but it was an Agreement between two governments and several political parties, not the IFA. As such, it referred nowhere to football generally, or international representation specifically. Of course, it is incumbent upon public bodies such as the IFA to have good regard to the spirit and consequences of the GFA. But as I argued earlier, such regard is to be found in a number of IFA policies, most notably "Football For All" - http://www.irishfa.com/grassroots/football-for-all/
If you think about it, it would have been unfair for the IFA to be bound by specific provisions of the GFA, when they were given no opportunity to contribute to the drafting of it, and the GFA is never invoked as being binding on certain other sporting organisations whose record on cross-community participation in NI is considerably less successful than the IFA's!

As for my reference to Gibson at Institute, other posters had referred to his Derry roots. I would be more sympathetic to the FAI's claim on him had he been developed by the Eircom club on his doorstep. The fact that it looks to have been an IFA club which helped him develop inevitably increases the IFA's sense of loss of investment in time, money etc. (This is no criticism of Gibson himself, btw)

[EalingGreen]

FIFA confirmed the situation in a letter to the FAI in October last year.

They received correspondence from FIFA which backs up Gibson's status as a prospective full Ireland international.

"The FAI only selects players who are eligible and wish to play for the Republic of Ireland. This is in line with FIFA's position as outlined in October last year," said an FAI spokesman.

That FIFA position came in the form of a letter which was sent to both associations and stated that: "The existing situation in Northern Ireland allows players to choose whether they wish to represent the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland."

The FAI has stated that their letter from FIFA permits them to cap players in Gibson's position and they must be confident about this, otherwise they wouldn't be considering the disputed players.
As such, they may be correct, but the Rules are open to more than one interpretation and (afaik) the FAI has never actually published the letter in question, merely alluded to it.

The IFA has clearly interpreted the new Rules differently. I assume they've taken advice on this, which was sufficiently persuasive for them to raise an objection.
Of course, they could be mistaken, but I don't think they will have objected on a whim, since they must have known it would be controversial, thereby risking bringing opprobrium and embarrassment upon them should the appeal fail, as well as harming their relationship with the FAI.

[EalingGreen]

[QUOTE=EalingGreen;615955]
NI is one of four constituent parts of the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland".


FOR NOW. :D

For now and the foreseeable future, imo, since I can't see the Irish Republic applying to rejoin the UK anytime soon...;)

[EalingGreen]

I can understand your annoyance but I would be very surprised if FIFA found a problem with any of these players playing for Ireland. At worst I think the FAI has broken a gentleman's agreement.

You may be correct, but I don't think anyone can say for certain until FIFA gives a specific determination on the matter.

In the meantime, if I were in the FAI, I would be instructing Stan not to pick Gibson against San Marino, just in case. After all, it's not as if you need him to be sure of winning. Well, don't you? Surely not... ;)

[co. down green]

"That FIFA position came in the form of a letter which was sent to both associations and stated that: "The existing situation in Northern Ireland allows players to choose whether they wish to represent the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland."

The situation was clarified by FIFA in October 2006 regarding the eligibility question. End of...

The 2004 rule changes have no bearing on Players from Belfast, Derry etc.. playing for Ireland.

Young Ruairí Harkin played for Ireland u17's last August, long after the introduction of the new changes. The IFA don't seem to have objected to the Derry players inclusion/participation in the team, or perhaps the IFA didn't think he was going to be 'any good', so ignored it on that occasion !!

With regard to Tony Kane's inclusion in the Ireland u21 squad, Kane was named in the Ireland u19 squad over 2 years ago after approaching the FAI and was named to play in a friendly game, he did not make an appearance after he was approached by an IFA and offered/persuaded....who knows.Kane played a couple more games for the North before realising that his initial decision was the right one and he was named in the Ireland u21 squad last year.

So it is unfair to say that Kane had no connection with the Irish squad before his inclusion in the u21's.

I think what will come out of this whole issue, is that Irish players in the North, will be fully aware of their eligibility to represent the team of their choice as stated in the FIFA response to both associations in October last and that FIFA will address issues surrounding the schoolboy/underage set up in the North where by only one association has to carry the burden financially , eventhough a percentage of those playing have no desire to play for the IFA run team.

Hopefully, now that it has been addressed by FIFA/UEFA, they can help put structures in place (in conjunction with both associations) to share any financial burdens and allow the FAI to have a permanent presence, to facilitate the growing number of young players wanting to play for Ireland at international level.

[co. down green]

You may be correct, but I don't think anyone can say for certain until FIFA gives a specific determination on the matter.

In the meantime, if I were in the FAI, I would be instructing Stan not to pick Gibson against San Marino, just in case. After all, it's not as if you need him to be sure of winning. Well, don't you? Surely not... ;)

"The FAI are unperturbed by the North's protestations and confirmed that the player will be traveling to Rimini with the Irish squad."

[liaml]

Liam, how is the IFA trying to "impose British nationality" upon anyone? This is a Northern Ireland matter, not a British one, since England, Scotland and Wales have nothing to do with it. As such, the IFA is objecting to another Association "locking out" the IFA from selecting NI-born players in a manner which they (the IFA) consider to be contrary to FIFA's rulebook.
In fact, on the one issue which did directly affect NI footballers "Britishness", the IFA successfully lobbied FIFA for an exemption which allowed NI players to continue to use their Irish Passports where they preferred it over a British one!
As for the GFA, that is all well and good, but it was an Agreement between two governments and several political parties, not the IFA. As such, it referred nowhere to football generally, or international representation specifically. Of course, it is incumbent upon public bodies such as the IFA to have good regard to the spirit and consequences of the GFA. But as I argued earlier, such regard is to be found in a number of IFA policies, most notably "Football For All" - http://www.irishfa.com/grassroots/football-for-all/
If you think about it, it would have been unfair for the IFA to be bound by specific provisions of the GFA, when they were given no opportunity to contribute to the drafting of it, and the GFA is never invoked as being binding on certain other sporting organisations whose record on cross-community participation in NI is considerably less successful than the IFA's!

As for my reference to Gibson at Institute, other posters had referred to his Derry roots. I would be more sympathetic to the FAI's claim on him had he been developed by the Eircom club on his doorstep. The fact that it looks to have been an IFA club which helped him develop inevitably increases the IFA's sense of loss of investment in time, money etc. (This is no criticism of Gibson himself, btw)

Catch a grip - Drumahoe is only six miles from Derry. You don't call that local? Talk about parochial...

AFAIK Gibson left for Man Utd when he was 16. Hardly the finished product. Also I think you'll find, as is generally the case, Inst actively recruited him. So you are saying the kid should be punished for the rest of his life because he accepted Insts offer as a kid?

In addition you may not like it but 42% of the population sees themselves as Irish citizens and not subjects of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northen Ireland. The Good Friday agreement confirms and acknowledges this. To force an Irish citizen to play for a UK national team against his will is contrary to the spirit of the GFA (and just plain wrong). The IFA is not doing itself any favours with the Nationalist community at all.

-Liam

[Andyh]

Hopefully, now that it has been addressed by FIFA/UEFA, they can help put structures in place (in conjunction with both associations) to share any financial burdens and allow the FAI to have a permanent presence, to facilitate the growing number of young players wanting to play for Ireland at international level.

What planet are you on?

[dr_peepee]

Yours is a false analogy, since Ryan Giggs's mother was from Wales. Had Gibson a parent or grandparent from the ROI, the IFA would have no complaints.

As for the rest of your mini-rant:
1. What you term the "Passport debacle" derived from a FIFA Directive which, following an incident which was nothing to do with the IFA or NI, stated that all international footballers had to carry the same Passport as the country within whom their Association was located. Having been sprung upon them, the IFA's response to this entirely unwelcome imposition was successfully to lobby FIFA to grant them an exemption, whereby NI players could continue to present an Irish Passport for ID purposes should they prefer, a practice to which the IFA has never objected.
2. As for the Lennon incident, how on earth are the IFA to be blamed for this? The fact is that after picking NL 39 times for NI, he was honoured by them with the captaincy. This caused some unknown individual to phone a threat to a Newspaper, which NL had to take seriously. You're not suggesting that having made him captain, it was the IFA who then made the call?
3. As for "a NI footballing message board", there are a number which qualify for this description, but regardless of which one you mean, the IFA has no more control over them than they have over this one.

P.S. Details of the IFA's "agenda" on such matters are to found below; I would advise you to consult it, since it might prevent you posting such ignorant, irrelevant and prejudiced drivel in the future.

http://www.irishfa.com/grassroots/football-for-all/

The Giggs analogy was purely to address you bewilderment at how Gibson could represent his local teams..

1. What came first the IFA statement driving the FIFA ruling... or the Lobby to FIFA. There was resistance and a stand off from a small number of players who remained nameless but threatened to retire from international football as the ruling contravined their right to hold an irish passport. Politicians got involved. You know that. It should never have got as far as the players resisting and had the IFA had ALL the players interest at heart it wouldn't have.

2+3. We're in the relms of the subjective and speculation, this may well be the ignorant, irrelevant and prejudice you speak of but for me more should have been done to stamp out the rubbish during and since the Neill Lennon situation. And Who said "control" in terms of the message board. I'm talking about addressing problems, and the fans attitude in terms of enticing young Nationalists players is clearly a problem, else the IFA wouldn't be chasing the Gibson issue.

I ask you this.

Why do YOU think NI are loosing talented players of the Nationalist persuasion?

Do you honestly believe their current actions are productive?

[EalingGreen]

The Giggs analogy was purely to address you bewilderment at how Gibson could represent his local teams..

1. What came first the IFA statement driving the FIFA ruling... or the Lobby to FIFA. There was resistance and a stand off from a small number of players who remained nameless but threatened to retire from international football as the ruling contravined their right to hold an irish passport. Politicians got involved. You know that. It should never have got as far as the players resisting and had the IFA had ALL the players interest at heart it wouldn't have.

2+3. We're in the relms of the subjective and speculation, this may well be the ignorant, irrelevant and prejudice you speak of but for me more should have been done to stamp out the rubbish during and since the Neill Lennon situation. And Who said "control" in terms of the message board. I'm talking about addressing problems, and the fans attitude in terms of enticing young Nationalists players is clearly a problem, else the IFA wouldn't be chasing the Gibson issue.

I ask you this.

Why do YOU think NI are loosing talented players of the Nationalist persuasion?

Do you honestly believe their current actions are productive?

I am not suffering "bewilderment at how Gibson could represent his local teams" [sic]. Of course I understand why he wishes to represent ROI and have nothing against the lad himself for wishing to do so. Rather, I am uncertain as to how he is eligible under FIFA's rules, as amended in May 2004. (I have no uncertainty whatever as to Ryan Giggs's eligibility for Wales, both pre-and post-2004, since his mother was born within the territory of the jurisdiction of the FAW.)

To re-visit Point 1: FIFA came first, with a Statement that for ID and verification purposes, players on international duty should present the Passport of the country in whose jurisdiction their National Association is located. (Many footballers have more than one Passport).
When it was pointed out to the IFA that this would mean NI players would be obliged to obtain and carry a UK Passport, the IFA was concerned, such that it immediately and successfully lobbied FIFA for an exemption, so that NI players could continue to present an Irish Passport, as some had always done. It is correct that certain Irish political figures poked their nose into the matter (indeed, one even attempted entirely falsely to claim "credit" for the exemption), but these politicians were politely told by FIFA to clear off from intervening in a footballing matter which did not concern them.
Is that clear enough for you?

Re. your response to Points 2 + 3, I was entirely specific, yet you do not (cannot?) refute any of what I posted. Why not just post that you don't like what I'm saying, rather than attempting an "answer" which, frankly, is an embarrassment of an attempt at rational debate?

And now, to address your two closing questions specifically.
I can see a number of reasons why "NI are loosing talented players of the Nationalist persuasion"
First and foremost, there are many people from a Nationalist background with no great affinity, if at all, for Northern Ireland, and by extension, the NI football team. It is natural that their background etc might cause them to look towards the ROI team. Naturally, the present generation might be expected to be more politicised after having grown up during the Troubles (or their aftermath) than their parents generation, who grew up in the more peaceable 50's.
And this lack of affinity to the NI team will doubtless be exacerbated by the fact that until very recently, the ROI team has been doing much better than NI, both on and off the field. Therefore, today's teenagers will have been thrilled by the exploits of Keane, Duff, Houghton, Aldridge etc, unlike their parents' generation, whose "Irish" experience of Tournament Finals will have involved players like Jennings, Armstrong, O'Neill etc.
Further, the FAI has made it increasingly clear recently that there is a welcome for NI-born players in their teams, in a policy shift from their previous stance of not picking players from NI. (Indeed, not only do they welcome approaches, but there is also evidence that they may be making the initial approach themselves).
In at least some of the cases where players who previously appeared happy enough to play for NI, but now wish to switch, this followed what they considered to be being "messed around" by the IFA. One example is of Tony Kane, where he was due to play for NI in a European Tournament and some dingbat in the IFA forgot to register him. Another is Michael O'Connor at Crewe who, having played for the NISFA previously (separate from the IFA), felt strongly (and with justification, imo) that the NI U-21 manager was overlooking him infavour of inferior players, so that he eventually got fed up and went to the FAI.
The IFA scouting network is notoriously inefficient, esp when compared with that of the FAI. There are numerous examples of where supporters and family members etc have had to point out NI-eligible players (both first generation and local born) to the IFA, who had no idea of their existence. Much of this must be blamed on the U-21 Coach, Roy Miller, who is also the IFA's Director of Coaching overall and, quite frankly, a p rick. Unfortunately, after 30 years in the set-up, he is also so entrenched with the "Blazers", that there seems no way to shift him out of the way that doesn't involve gelignite. :(
Further, for a period of two years in the recent long, dark reign of Sammy McIlroy, the IFA actually abolished the NI U-21 team for financial reasons :eek: Inevitably, many promising 15 and 16 year olds at the time will (justifiably) have viewed the whole under-age set-up as "Mickey Mouse" and looked elsewhere. (And I can't say I blame them, particularly)
Finally, it is probably not coincidence that a significant proportion of those wishing to switch are from Derry. I say that not because there is a different
nature to the politics etc of the city; rather, the presence of an FAI club locally is inevitably going to mean better contacts with the FAI for developing and securing players etc.
Does that answer your question?

As for your second question, I imagine the IFA is very aware that their objection to what they see as the FAI improperly picking NI-born players in contravention of FIFA's Rules will not do anything for their popularity amongst
Nationalists etc. Indeed, I think this partly explains their reluctance to challenge it immediately after the Rules changed in 2004.
I would guess, however, that they concluded that if they did nothing, the trickle of talent Southwards risked becoming a flood and as I've said before on this Board, but nobody has acknowledged, what other Association would happily stand by and watch an exodus of locally-born players to a rival Association, especially if they felt this exodus was contrary to the Rules?
In the end, if the IFA is successful at FIFA, it may mean a section of a generation of young Nationalists being further alienated, such that if they can't play for the ROI, they won't want to play for NI.
Personally, I would greatly regret if it came to that. However, I genuinely feel that the solution to this predicament is for the IFA to address fairly and squarely the issues why some present-day youngsters from a Nationalist background may be more alienated than their parents appear to have been. (And by "issues", I mean flags, anthems, imagery etc).
And equally importantly, they need to address their own chronic incompetence when it comes to scouting, coaching, management etc, so that their under-age teams can begin to replicate the success of Sanchez with the senior team and players from all background will be more likely to be proud to wear the jersey for NI.

[dr_peepee]

I am not suffering "bewilderment at how Gibson could represent his local teams" [sic]. Of course I understand why he wishes to represent ROI and have nothing against the lad himself for wishing to do so. Rather, I am uncertain as to how he is eligible under FIFA's rules, as amended in May 2004. (I have no uncertainty whatever as to Ryan Giggs's eligibility for Wales, both pre-and post-2004, since his mother was born within the territory of the jurisdiction of the FAW.)

To re-visit Point 1: FIFA came first, with a Statement that for ID and verification purposes, players on international duty should present the Passport of the country in whose jurisdiction their National Association is located. (Many footballers have more than one Passport).
When it was pointed out to the IFA that this would mean NI players would be obliged to obtain and carry a UK Passport, the IFA was concerned, such that it immediately and successfully lobbied FIFA for an exemption, so that NI players could continue to present an Irish Passport, as some had always done. It is correct that certain Irish political figures poked their nose into the matter (indeed, one even attempted entirely falsely to claim "credit" for the exemption), but these politicians were politely told by FIFA to clear off from intervening in a footballing matter which did not concern them.
Is that clear enough for you?

Re. your response to Points 2 + 3, I was entirely specific, yet you do not (cannot?) refute any of what I posted. Why not just post that you don't like what I'm saying, rather than attempting an "answer" which, frankly, is an embarrassment of an attempt at rational debate?

And now, to address your two closing questions specifically.
I can see a number of reasons why "NI are loosing talented players of the Nationalist persuasion"
First and foremost, there are many people from a Nationalist background with no great affinity, if at all, for Northern Ireland, and by extension, the NI football team. It is natural that their background etc might cause them to look towards the ROI team. Naturally, the present generation might be expected to be more politicised after having grown up during the Troubles (or their aftermath) than their parents generation, who grew up in the more peaceable 50's.
And this lack of affinity to the NI team will doubtless be exacerbated by the fact that until very recently, the ROI team has been doing much better than NI, both on and off the field. Therefore, today's teenagers will have been thrilled by the exploits of Keane, Duff, Houghton, Aldridge etc, unlike their parents' generation, whose "Irish" experience of Tournament Finals will have involved players like Jennings, Armstrong, O'Neill etc.
Further, the FAI has made it increasingly clear recently that there is a welcome for NI-born players in their teams, in a policy shift from their previous stance of not picking players from NI. (Indeed, not only do they welcome approaches, but there is also evidence that they may be making the initial approach themselves).
In at least some of the cases where players who previously appeared happy enough to play for NI, but now wish to switch, this followed what they considered to be being "messed around" by the IFA. One example is of Tony Kane, where he was due to play for NI in a European Tournament and some dingbat in the IFA forgot to register him. Another is Michael O'Connor at Crewe who, having played for the NISFA previously (separate from the IFA), felt strongly (and with justification, imo) that the NI U-21 manager was overlooking him infavour of inferior players, so that he eventually got fed up and went to the FAI.
The IFA scouting network is notoriously inefficient, esp when compared with that of the FAI. There are numerous examples of where supporters and family members etc have had to point out NI-eligible players (both first generation and local born) to the IFA, who had no idea of their existence. Much of this must be blamed on the U-21 Coach, Roy Miller, who is also the IFA's Director of Coaching overall and, quite frankly, a p rick. Unfortunately, after 30 years in the set-up, he is also so entrenched with the "Blazers", that there seems no way to shift him out of the way that doesn't involve gelignite. :(
Further, for a period of two years in the recent long, dark reign of Sammy McIlroy, the IFA actually abolished the NI U-21 team for financial reasons :eek: Inevitably, many promising 15 and 16 year olds at the time will (justifiably) have viewed the whole under-age set-up as "Mickey Mouse" and looked elsewhere. (And I can't say I blame them, particularly)
Finally, it is probably not coincidence that a significant proportion of those wishing to switch are from Derry. I say that not because there is a different
nature to the politics etc of the city; rather, the presence of an FAI club locally is inevitably going to mean better contacts with the FAI for developing and securing players etc.
Does that answer your question?

As for your second question, I imagine the IFA is very aware that their objection to what they see as the FAI improperly picking NI-born players in contravention of FIFA's Rules will not do anything for their popularity amongst
Nationalists etc. Indeed, I think this partly explains their reluctance to challenge it immediately after the Rules changed in 2004.
I would guess, however, that they concluded that if they did nothing, the trickle of talent Southwards risked becoming a flood and as I've said before on this Board, but nobody has acknowledged, what other Association would happily stand by and watch an exodus of locally-born players to a rival Association, especially if they felt this exodus was contrary to the Rules?
In the end, if the IFA is successful at FIFA, it may mean a section of a generation of young Nationalists being further alienated, such that if they can't play for the ROI, they won't want to play for NI.
Personally, I would greatly regret if it came to that. However, I genuinely feel that the solution to this predicament is for the IFA to address fairly and squarely the issues why some present-day youngsters from a Nationalist background may be more alienated than their parents appear to have been. (And by "issues", I mean flags, anthems, imagery etc).
And equally importantly, they need to address their own chronic incompetence when it comes to scouting, coaching, management etc, so that their under-age teams can begin to replicate the success of Sanchez with the senior team and players from all background will be more likely to be proud to wear the jersey for NI.


The IFA response wasn't imediate, check the timeframe. The lobby only followed after resistance from players/politicians (rightly or wrongly). I ask again what came first? IFA driving or resistance of the FIFA ruling.

The IFA are more obsessed with where the players are going and not why.You buried buried your answers in a sea of non commital, yet articualte, references to the technical set up of the IFA. It's all Roy Millers fault apparently!:rolleyes:

You haven't answered anything in terms of the Neill Lennon treatment by the fans/Message board. Listing off his caps and captaincy doesn't detract from death threats, Graffiti, abuse to his family. The IFA have no obligations outside the technical duties, logistics and the 90 minutes. Is that what your saying? In fact your first response in terms of the negative attitude to nationalist players on message boards was "How can the IFA control message boards". So if you can't control it, ignore it, yeah. Did I pick that up right? What with my limited debating skills. That attitude is exactly why players don't want to represent their "Juristiction of Birth". Have you really answered any questions? Do you honestly think the next Neill Lennon is gonna want to represent Northern Ireland without thinking twice about it.

So Giggs mother is more Welsh than Gibsons parent are Irish?? Are we resorting to the Derry/Londonderry argument?? You're an agro merchant Ealinggreen. You love argument. How many paragraphs did you spend picking and contesting my points before coining my arguments in four lines

"However, I genuinely feel that the solution to this predicament is for the IFA to address fairly and squarely the issues why some present-day youngsters from a Nationalist background may be more alienated than their parents appear to have been. (And by "issues", I mean flags, anthems, imagery etc)"

Are you telling me comments on message boards don't alienate? Are you telling me a swift and definitive rebuke to FIFA's directive wouldn't have a positive effect on the Nationalist community, even if in time it proved unnsuccessful?

I came here to talk about football and players. Personally I'd be worried if we were picking postmen and would be exhausting every avenue to increase our playing pool. But if you feel that their efforts and resourses are better served chasing Darron Gibson, more power to ye..

[EalingGreen]

The IFA response wasn't imediate, check the timeframe. The lobby only followed after resistance from players/politicians (rightly or wrongly). I ask again what came first? IFA driving or resistance of the FIFA ruling.

The IFA addressed the issue as soon as it became apparent to them. If I'm wrong, you tell me the timeframe. But whilst you're checking, how do you account for the fact that it was the IFA who successfully gained an exemption for players to use an Irish passport, if they are so disregarding of the players sensitivities?

The IFA are more obsessed with where the players are going and not why.You buried buried your answers in a sea of non commital, yet articualte, references to the technical set up of the IFA. It's all Roy Millers fault apparently!:rolleyes:

Actually, I listed SEVEN separate reasons why the IFA are losing so many youngsters to the FAI. Specifically, I posted:

"First and foremost, there are many people from a Nationalist background with no great affinity, if at all, for Northern Ireland, and by extension, the NI football team".

I simply cannot see how you could have read my reply simply as "It's all Roy Millers fault", unless you are so blinded by your preconceptions that you simply cannot see what's posted on the screen in front of you. Pathetic.

You haven't answered anything in terms of the Neill Lennon treatment by the fans/Message board. Listing off his caps and captaincy doesn't detract from death threats, Graffiti, abuse to his family. The IFA have no obligations outside the technical duties, logistics and the 90 minutes. Is that what your saying? In fact your first response in terms of the negative attitude to nationalist players on message boards was "How can the IFA control message boards". So if you can't control it, ignore it, yeah. Did I pick that up right? What with my limited debating skills. That attitude is exactly why players don't want to represent their "Juristiction of Birth". Have you really answered any questions? Do you honestly think the next Neill Lennon is gonna want to represent Northern Ireland without thinking twice about it.

More horlicks. The IFA condemned the threat to NL in unequivocal terms. What the hell else do you expect they could have done about it, or the graffiti or abuse of his family? If there's more they could have done, you spell it out to me.
And while you're at it, tell me what more the IFA should be doing about e.g. Messages Boards that they might reasonably be doing?
In the meantime, I will direct you, once more, to the IFA's own Message Board, which they can control, and ask you to show me one line that alientates anyone.
In fact, their website shows they are putting a lot of effort and scarce resources into trying to promote the game throughout NI:
http://www.irishfa.com/grassroots/football-for-all/

So Giggs mother is more Welsh than Gibsons parent are Irish?? Are we resorting to the Derry/Londonderry argument?? You're an agro merchant Ealinggreen. You love argument. How many paragraphs did you spend picking and contesting my points before coining my arguments in four lines

No, Mrs. Giggs was "born more in Wales" than Mrs. Gibson was "born in the Irish Republic". Had Mrs. G been born across the way in Donegal, this would not have made her any more Irish than she is at present, but the IFA would have had no objection whatever to the FAI capping her son.
I can only suggest that if you still can't see the distinction between the two, you ask an intelligent adult. Or even an unintelligent one. In fact, the village idiot might do, though he may not want to speak to you for fear you'd pinch his job, what with you being better qualified and all that...

"However, I genuinely feel that the solution to this predicament is for the IFA to address fairly and squarely the issues why some present-day youngsters from a Nationalist background may be more alienated than their parents appear to have been. (And by "issues", I mean flags, anthems, imagery etc)"

Are you telling me comments on message boards don't alienate? Are you telling me a swift and definitive rebuke to FIFA's directive wouldn't have a positive effect on the Nationalist community, even if in time it proved unnsuccessful?

So the IFA should have told FIFA where to get off, for introducing a Directive following some dispute which didn't involve any Irish player, North or South, and despite the fact that FIFA willingly granted an exemption? What planet are you on?
The message which the IFA gave to the Nationalist community was simply that if any of them wishes to play for NI, the IFA is quite happy for them to travel under an Irish Passport, as has been the case since anyone can remember.
As for your drivel about "messages boards alienating" - why don't the FAI close me down, then, if I'm alienating so many people on here about the ROI team etc? Good Grief!

I came here to talk about football and players. Personally I'd be worried if we were picking postmen and would be exhausting every avenue to increase our playing pool. But if you feel that their efforts and resourses are better served chasing Darron Gibson, more power to ye..

Your last Paragraph demonstrates both your pettiness and your ignorance, since Peter Thompson is now a full-timer with Linfield, not a postman.

And in any case, for at least some young players who don't allow politics solely to determine which of the Irish international teams they represent, the closing of the "Gibson Loophole" could turn out to be a way of "increasing our playing pool".
After all, it was Neil Lennon, no less, who said in his recent autobiography that although he would have preferred to play for the ROI, when that wasn't an option, he was quite happy (I think he used the term "honoured"?) to play for NI. Thirty Nine times.

[dr_peepee]

MeeAAOOWW!! This Kitten has claws.

You're non commital comments were posted above my own (Evidence what evidence?), I saw no reason to highlight your nievety further than the Roy Miller quote and a roll of the eyes. Your just sick that you inadvertantly agreed with me in that we both feel that the solution to this predicament is for the IFA to address fairly and squarely the issues why some present-day youngsters from a Nationalist background may be more alienated than their parents appear to have been. (And by "issues", I mean flags, anthems, imagery etc)
.....and it goes against every non conformative argumentative fibre in your body. You love agro. You take power from disagreement. That's your problem.

As regards fans feeling/Message boards/Neil Lennons treatment by his own fans. The IFA are helpless. You're dead right. They can't control fans feeling or message boards so it's best to just reduce their efforts to a message board on their official site and a strongly worded statement. That'll solve everything. Actions don't speak louder than words apparently. There's no other mediums out there. There's no PR guru's to consult. You're right and the IFA are right. I concede. Increase IFA efforts into forcing kids in the middle of political tug of war to represent NI, regardless of what they feel. I had this tree hugging hippy idea that maybe the efforts should be on making tham want to represent in the first place, but an idiots opinion isn't worth much in this crazy world.

You'd better tell the good people at Sky Sports news that yer man is no longer a Postman.

[dr_peepee]

Interesting how you gravitate to words and actions like "Closing Down" and "Control" in terms of public relations and addressing problems don't you think? Says allot.

[EalingGreen]

MeeAAOOWW!! This Kitten has claws.

You're non commital comments were posted above my own (Evidence what evidence?), I saw no reason to highlight your nievety further than the Roy Miller quote and a roll of the eyes. Your just sick that you inadvertantly agreed with me in that we both feel that the solution to this predicament is for the IFA to address fairly and squarely the issues why some present-day youngsters from a Nationalist background may be more alienated than their parents appear to have been. (And by "issues", I mean flags, anthems, imagery etc)
.....and it goes against every non conformative argumentative fibre in your body. You love agro. You take power from disagreement. That's your problem.

As regards fans feeling/Message boards/Neil Lennons treatment by his own fans. The IFA are helpless. You're dead right. They can't control fans feeling or message boards so it's best to just reduce their efforts to a message board on their official site and a strongly worded statement. That'll solve everything. Actions don't speak louder than words apparently. There's no other mediums out there. There's no PR guru's to consult. You're right and the IFA are right. I concede. Increase IFA efforts into forcing kids in the middle of political tug of war to represent NI, regardless of what they feel. I had this tree hugging hippy idea that maybe the efforts should be on making tham want to represent in the first place, but an idiots opinion isn't worth much in this crazy world.

You'd better tell the good people at Sky Sports news that yer man is no longer a Postman.

Just when I didn't think your posts could get any more pointless, I saw...

[EalingGreen]

Interesting how you gravitate to words and actions like "Closing Down" and "Control" in terms of public relations and addressing problems don't you think? Says allot.

...this. :rolleyes:

[Wolfie]

Is there any end to this Bitch Fest?

[dr_peepee]

He started it....

[dr_peepee]

Apparrently Gibson was seen texting Laurie Sanchez after the game!!:)

[eirebhoy]

Another 90 minutes for him tonight.

"Another rugged display from the young Irishman who clearly relishes every first-team opportunity. Nearly opened his account with a looping header that was cleared off the line."

http://www.manutd.com/default.sps?pagegid={F9E570E6-407E-44BC-800F-4A3110258114}&newsid=6623561

[richieos]

he seems to always play well when he plays for united, id definatley have him in ahead of wheland for ireland, probably pair him up with andrews in the midfield

[irishfan86]

John O'Shea was easily the worst player for United in the game, with some pretty poor distribution when in possession.

Darron Gibson did the simple stuff well, and rarely lost possession, but seemed a bit of a passenger in comparison to his more positive teammates. He is talented but I have a bit of a fear of Liam Miller part 2.

Treacy, for Blackburn, was perhaps the most impressive Irishman on the night.

He hit some good crosses in, and did well with the limited possession he had (as United had the ball for most of the match).

I would compare him to Kilbane at his peak, as far as being a big, strong, fast athletic player who can be quite effective.

Treacy looks to be a bit more technical, but if I was to compare him to someone, it would be a younger Kilbane.

[Dr. Ogba]

John O'Shea was easily the worst player for United in the game, with some pretty poor distribution when in possession.

Darron Gibson did the simple stuff well, and rarely lost possession, but seemed a bit of a passenger in comparison to his more positive teammates. He is talented but I have a bit of a fear of Liam Miller part 2.

Treacy, for Blackburn, was perhaps the most impressive Irishman on the night.

He hit some good crosses in, and did well with the limited possession he had (as United had the ball for most of the match).

I would compare him to Kilbane at his peak, as far as being a big, strong, fast athletic player who can be quite effective.

Treacy looks to be a bit more technical, but if I was to compare him to someone, it would be a younger Kilbane.


do ye know funny you mention Treacy, haven't seen a huge amount of him at Blackburn but having seen him in the flesh for the u21s a couple of years back he actually reminds me of another former Blackburn man, Jason Wilcox - He has a great left boot on him, is a lovely crosser of the ball but can't seem to beat a man to save his life...

I mean all of this in a complimentary way of course...:cool:

[elroy]

John O'Shea was easily the worst player for United in the game, with some pretty poor distribution when in possession.

Darron Gibson did the simple stuff well, and rarely lost possession, but seemed a bit of a passenger in comparison to his more positive teammates. He is talented but I have a bit of a fear of Liam Miller part 2.

Treacy, for Blackburn, was perhaps the most impressive Irishman on the night.

He hit some good crosses in, and did well with the limited possession he had (as United had the ball for most of the match).

I would compare him to Kilbane at his peak, as far as being a big, strong, fast athletic player who can be quite effective.

Treacy looks to be a bit more technical, but if I was to compare him to someone, it would be a younger Kilbane.


I think O'Sheas best position is Centre half where he rarely plays for United. His best performances for both club and country have been when he plays in that position.

[irishfan86]

I think O'Sheas best position is Centre half where he rarely plays for United. His best performances for both club and country have been when he plays in that position.

I definitely agree; however, it seems that Ferguson has little trust in O'Shea at that position, as evidenced by Neville starting at centre-half while O'Shea was used as a full-back.

As long as O'Shea stays at United, I don't see him reckoning much as a centre-half barring some sort of major injury crisis.

[carloz]

i remember about 2 years abo Man Utd were playing in Switzerland against Basle. For the first 20 mins O'Shea was playing centre half and he ws having a complete disaster. Ferguson swapped Silvestre for O'Shea and O'Shea played the rest of the game at right back. He has played very limited football since there at centre back and with Evans playing so well when he comes in, i doubt he will get another opportunity there