Darron Gibson

[geysir]

It's an article taken from the Belfast Telegraph. Agenda driven by any chance?

Didn't see it in the print version of the indo this morning.....


The Belfast Telegraph and the Indo have the same owners.

[youngirish]

Agreed. Given he is viewed as a skilled footballer who doesn't always put in a full shift, and seeing as how Trapattoni seems to prefer more-defensively minded ball winners and battlers in midfield, I'd say that Stoke (or any other team that doesn't keep the ball for long) would provide him with a lot of the work that Trapattoni wants to see him get practice with.

Thought you were banned.

[Closed Account 2]

He could always go on loan to a club like Bolton, staying in the Premier League but playing many more games than he will at Old Trafford (barring a massive injury crisis, but he could be called back then anyway).

I really think anyone who dismisses Trap as "having a laugh" is lacking proper respect. I don't know if the Stoke comment is a sly dig at the likes of Whelan and Lawrence, but I'd rather have these 2 (and Andrews for that matter) ahead of him. Once he plays a game as good as Andrews' in Paris or makes contributions as vital as Whelan's vs Italy then he can begin to indulge his championship manager delusions of grandeur.

"Where could I possibly go after Man Utd"... well he could try playing on the continent, but he's probably a bit too pampered to play in the Bundesliga, there is a cronic shortage of ego masseurs east of the Meuse.

[Serb]

He needs to choose his battles, unless he's happy to go the David May route

David May didn't get much football with United, but in fairness, by 23 he was a regular with Blackburn Rovers and had played 100 league games or so. Between United and Wolves, Gibson has under 40 league games under his belt (many of his league games with United have been as a sub too). As good as he may or may not be, I don't think he's going to improve significantly without competitive football.

A move to somewhere like Stoke would actually do him a world of good -- it's a shame that he thinks he's too good to be putting in a shift and tackling back at a team where he's likely to be one of their stars, as opposed to watching his United teammates win things while he sits on the bench.

[ifk101]

I really think anyone who dismisses Trap as "having a laugh" is lacking proper respect.

The "having a laugh" comment is out of context as he is responding to a supposed quote attributable to Trapattoni hence why he uses the word "if" on two separate occasions indicating that he doubts that Trapattoni said the supposed quote. I'm sure Darron has learned his lesson and won't be talking to the media anytime soon again.

[geysir]

Funny that Trap was mentioning Gattuso., made me think if only Eirebhoy was around to lend a hand with the midfield discussions :)

[dr_peepee]

Funny that Trap was mentioning Gattuso., made me think if only Eirebhoy was around to lend a hand with the midfield discussions :)

Define "holding midfeilder"?

[Brendan 82]

Pretty arrogant stuff from Gibson alright. He would do well to get into the starting eleven at "somewhere like Stoke City"

[rebelmusic]

I dunno, everything about that report looks like ****** to me. Altho i do agree wholeheartedly that Gibson should start ahead of Green. If Trap starts kilbane and Mcshane he cant use the argument of a lack of gametime

[irishfan86]

The somewhere like Stoke City comment is a bit offputting, considering one of our most important players plys his trade there.

[tetsujin1979]

he was linked with a loan move to Stoke before the transfer window shut, might be why he mentioned them. If he did at all.

[Closed Account 2]

I dunno, everything about that report looks like ****** to me. Altho i do agree wholeheartedly that Gibson should start ahead of Green. If Trap starts kilbane and Mcshane he cant use the argument of a lack of gametime

The only arguement about that is who else would be playing instead of those full backs ? Foley maybe, but the likes of Cunningham, Stephen Kelly etc arent really getting a run of games together, and I'm not sure switching a center back to full back would be a great idea. Maybe if Coleman's loan spell at Blackpool is good or Harte strings more games together for Reading, there will be competition for McShane and Kilbane.

Also Kilbane has played over 100 games for us including at the World Cup, and over 200 premier league games, I agree his best is past him but at least he's clocked up some experience with us and his clubs. McShane has over 15 games for us and about 75 premier league games, ideally we would have someone better (less error prone) but at least he has some experience when there isnt a huge amount else at full back. Contrast that with central midfield where we have Green and Fahey playing regularly for their clubs, and Andrews and Wehlan playing semi regularly for their clubs.

Gibson has been at Man Utd for 5 years and only played 18 games for them, including loans to Antwerp and Wolves he's on 72 games, which is about 15 games a year, he needs to start playing more games.

[rebelmusic]

Agree totally Ed, and when the rumours of the loan to Stoke appeared I was praying he'd go. Trap made a very good point that Gibson will have trouble learning at Man U because they are almost always winning games. It would be better for him to be in a game-chasing situation more often, rather than getting starts for games Utd are always expected to win

[geysir]

Amazing how a slanted article in the paper has so many people completely fooled.

[tetsujin1979]

thought he was poor when he came on tonight, apart from a pass to Kelly on the wing. Had the perfect opportunity to show what he can do with a free kick and messed it up. Seemed to concede possession every time he received the ball, although he did win it back again a few times.

[gastric]

Gibson's position at UTD reminds me a lot of earlier views of O'Shea. Talented, but frustrating and possibly lacking heart when playing for Ireland. It seems that only in the last two years that the ongoing criticism of O'Shea has begun to fade.

[Junior]

Gibson's position at UTD reminds me a lot of earlier views of O'Shea. Talented, but frustrating and possibly lacking heart when playing for Ireland. It seems that only in the last two years that the ongoing criticism of O'Shea has begun to fade.

Although whilst this is off topic, I thought he was poor last night. Distribution was awful, particularly second half. Whether that had anything to do with his thigh strain (or whatever injury it was that he picked up) Im not sure.

As Tets has said, Gibson didnt do an awful lot in his 30 minutes or so to prove he should be in there and you dont get better opportunities than against one of the weaker teams in all of Europe.

[tetsujin1979]

Trapattoni refutes comments: http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,19692_6364550,00.html

[geysir]

Darron showed every reason why he is behind Green in the pecking order and I have to say I agree with Trap 100%.

Possibly he could be used along with 2 CM. As soon as Whelan went off, Green had to be everywhere while Darron is hanging around the centre circle waiting for the ball. Andorra were beginning to find paths through CM that did not exist before.

[Scooby Doo]

IF Gibson's comments are accurate and not completely skewed out of context then his comments on Stoke City are extremely insensitive considering that two of his international team mates ply their trade there. He seems undeservedly arrogant and and it will be a hard fall from grace if he eventually does end up 'somewhere like Stoke City'. As cfdh Edmundo says, he hasn't produced anything near the performances of Andrews and Whelen in a green shirt and until then, has little right to mount his high horse so publically criticise Trap's suggestions as well as his teammate's clubs. Then again, I suppose a long row of zeros on your paycheque and hanging out with the likes of Patrice Evra can go to a young lad's head.

[kennedmc]

thought he was poor when he came on tonight, apart from a pass to Kelly on the wing. Had the perfect opportunity to show what he can do with a free kick and messed it up. Seemed to concede possession every time he received the ball, although he did win it back again a few times.

I take the opposite view. I thought he played OK and was better then either Green or Whelan. It was goood to see one of our CM actually dropping deep and looking for the ball, keeping possession etc.

He did not concede possession every time he got the ball. He does probably need to work his uprate abit when he doesn't have the ball. However, I think that Whelan, Green and Andrews are so limited it is untrue. Honest lads but no real quality.

I am not saying Gibson is quality, or even that I'd have him in for Russia / Slovakia , more we have no quality in CM!!

[Den Perry]

I take the opposite view. I thought he played OK and was better then either Green or Whelan. It was goood to see one of our CM actually dropping deep and looking for the ball, keeping possession etc.

He did not concede possession every time he got the ball. He does probably need to work his uprate abit when he doesn't have the ball. However, I think that Whelan, Green and Andrews are so limited it is untrue. Honest lads but no real quality.

I am not saying Gibson is quality, or even that I'd have him in for Russia / Slovakia , more we have no quality in CM!!

I think his "uprate" is commendable...

[Sullivinho]

Trapattoni refutes comments: http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,19692_6364550,00.html


"What I told him was that, for him, the action is not finished when he does not have the ball". "He has to work to get the ball."

Nail on head material there from Trap.

[centre mid]

I thought he played well when he came on, the tempo increased when he came on. Whether that was a coincidence or not is another matter. He at least passed the ball forward rather than across or backwards.

[geysir]

True enough but when he hasn't the ball he resembles a county council employee, observing some other people do all the work.

[Manblue]

I thought he played well when he came on, the tempo increased when he came on. Whether that was a coincidence or not is another matter. He at least passed the ball forward rather than across or backwards.

Are you taking the P*ss, there was no tempo for the last 30 mins and he was one of the main reasons for this, harressing players when you dont have the ball sets the tempo just as much as what you do when you have the ball and he uped the tempo in neither way.

[kev mcq]

The only arguement about that is who else would be playing instead of those full backs ? Foley maybe, but the likes of Cunningham, Stephen Kelly etc arent really getting a run of games together, and I'm not sure switching a center back to full back would be a great idea. Maybe if Coleman's loan spell at Blackpool is good or Harte strings more games together for Reading, there will be competition for McShane and Kilbane.



What about Ward? Has played regularly in the Premiership at left-back for Wolves. Kilbane can't even get a game at Hull who are struggling in the Championship FFS.

[tetsujin1979]

I take the opposite view. I thought he played OK and was better then either Green or Whelan. It was goood to see one of our CM actually dropping deep and looking for the ball, keeping possession etc. I thought with Whelan off the pitch, they made more progress through the centre of midfield. Same thing happened against Brazil when he went off


He did not concede possession every time he got the ball. He does probably need to work his uprate abit when he doesn't have the ball. However, I think that Whelan, Green and Andrews are so limited it is untrue. Honest lads but no real quality.
He pretty much did. I recorded the game on RTE last night, I'm going to have a look at it later. It did seem to me watching from the stands that everytime the ball came to him, he lost possession. Twice he won it back immediately, but other than the pass to Kelly on the right I don't remember him doing much.

[Closed Account 2]

What about Ward? Has played regularly in the Premiership at left-back for Wolves. Kilbane can't even get a game at Hull who are struggling in the Championship FFS.

Well from what I recall Ward had a bad knee problem at the tail end of last season / summer, so I think that may have led to him slipping down the reckoning. He has started some games for Wolves this season so far, but it might have been pushing his limit of fitness / injuries if he'd gone right into the squad. The October or November matches could be better for him.

In addition it's not clear if he's a genuine left back or if his best position is left midfielder...

[seanfhear]

I think a loan spell at a club like Stoke would do the lad the world of good.

Tony Pulis would give the lad a few pointers about working when his team do not have the ball and if he could keep his place in the starting 11 at Stoke he would learn a lot. He would certainly learn more than getting a few minutes at the end of games for utd or league cup games.

Some hard work on the field would do Daron a lot of good.

[Kingdom]

I don't like Gibson, he always has a scowldy thick looking head on him. He seems to be a bit of a lazy b*stard on the pitch as well. There is always going to be a certain amount of embelishment on quotes in the tabloids, but if there's even a grain of truth in what he said, then he's a goon of the highest order, and as someone already said, has shown f-all awareness to the fact that two of his team-mates, ironically two rivals, play for the club he's alleged to have belittled.

That being said, and my petty hatred aside, I really hope he does get a decent career etched out for himself, as he is obviously talented and doesn't lack any of the self-confidence you need to survive in the pro game, never mind just at United. And if he does, well that will also benefit Ireland, and ultimately that's what it's all about.

There is no comparison to John O'Shea's career whatsoever. O'Shea was highly regarded for us all the way through the underage sides, and was very promising for united early on as well. His problem was that he never got a settled role in the second and third seasons after the breakthrough and thus had the crowd on his back. It took a long time for things to change. Something I'm full sure that isn't a coincidence is that O'Shea has been excellent, and possibly our best player since Trappatoni took over. The form has been replicated in a United jersey as well. Another thing, he's an absolute gentleman.

[Charlie Darwin]

I don't really see how he's belittling Stoke. Objectively, they are streets behind Manchester United in almost every facet of play. I don't think it's particularly controversial to say that if he's going to force his way into the United team then he's less likely to do it is he's at a different club. And who's to say a year spent chasing the ball would benefit his overall game anyway? Darren Fletcher seems to have done alright without it.

[osarusan]

And who's to say a year spent chasing the ball would benefit his overall game anyway?
I think Gibson needs to look at Green and decide what Green brings to the table that Gibson doesn't that sees Green start ahead of him. If he can match Green's strengths, his undoubted superior creativity should see him start.

Now, it's obvious what Green brings to the game that Gibson doesn't - workrate and tackling. I don't know if Gibson can tackle, I just know that he doesn't do enough of it to get picked for Ireland. If he's serious about getting into the first XI, then he needs to add that element to his game, and I'd say he's more likely to do that at a club where they have less possession of the ball than Man United do, not least because he'd probably be on the pitch for longer.

[osarusan]

Irish Times has Trapattoni's comments on the issue.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2010/0909/1224278513017.html


when Gibson’s quotes were read to Trapattoni at a press conference yesterday morning prior to his return to Italy, his tone was fairly scathing.

“I said before, he’s not my player, I’m not Ferguson,” he said. “But when a young player plays more games, in the first or second league, it increases their personality. It’s not a problem, though; if Gibson wants to stay in Manchester, let him stay in Manchester. It’s not my problem.

“I will continue to ask him but I think also it’s a question of whether he plays or doesn’t play. I cannot have seven or eight players who don’t play for their club. I can’t have such a situation.


“But the answer is that he must play. When he stays always on the bench, obviously he is not improving. Manchester is Manchester. There are players with great personalities who play. He must enter this group. Now, he doesn’t play or plays only sometimes because there are other great players but I think that at another club he plays all the time.

“It doesn’t matter whether it is Manchester or Juventus or Milan, when you stay at these great teams it is very important because you play in the league, in Europe . . . but if you stay in this club and play only a few times, you just stay with the shirt, then that is different.

“But I didn’t say whether he should stay or go. Just that if Gibson was at another club maybe he would play 90 minutes, 90 minutes, 90 minutes and he would grow more. He has football in his head and in his legs, it’s beautiful but if he doesn’t play . . .”

[Charlie Darwin]

I think Gibson needs to look at Green and decide what Green brings to the table that Gibson doesn't that sees Green start ahead of him. If he can match Green's strengths, his undoubted superior creativity should see him start.

Now, it's obvious what Green brings to the game that Gibson doesn't - workrate and tackling. I don't know if Gibson can tackle, I just know that he doesn't do enough of it to get picked for Ireland. If he's serious about getting into the first XI, then he needs to add that element to his game, and I'd say he's more likely to do that at a club where they have less possession of the ball than Man United do, not least because he'd probably be on the pitch for longer.
But there are only a handful of international games a year, whereas his club team plays once or twice a week - which side should he be aiming to break into? His role at United is unlikely to be in the Green/Whelan mold, but he does have a good chance to get in ahead of Carrick and Scholes after he retires. Going to Stoke on loan to learn how to close players down for 90 minutes might help his international prospects but it would almost certainly be his ticket out of Old Trafford for good.

[osarusan]

Absolutely agreed that if he wants to get into the Man United team regularly, he shouldn't be looking for a loan deal (at least not unless Ferguson sees the benefits of it for his club future), but I wonder does he fully realise that making the decision to focus on progress at club level may hinder his international progress. The comments attributed to him would suggest that he doesn't.

i think Trapattoni's point is that Gibson needs to be aware of what Trap wants to see from him in order to challenge for a starting position, and then it's up to Gibson to focus his career as he chooses.

[DannyInvincible]

I don't like Gibson, he always has a scowldy thick looking head on him. He seems to be a bit of a lazy b*stard on the pitch as well. There is always going to be a certain amount of embelishment on quotes in the tabloids, but if there's even a grain of truth in what he said, then he's a goon of the highest order, and as someone already said, has shown f-all awareness to the fact that two of his team-mates, ironically two rivals, play for the club he's alleged to have belittled.

That being said, and my petty hatred aside, I really hope he does get a decent career etched out for himself, as he is obviously talented and doesn't lack any of the self-confidence you need to survive in the pro game, never mind just at United. And if he does, well that will also benefit Ireland, and ultimately that's what it's all about.

There is no comparison to John O'Shea's career whatsoever. O'Shea was highly regarded for us all the way through the underage sides, and was very promising for united early on as well. His problem was that he never got a settled role in the second and third seasons after the breakthrough and thus had the crowd on his back. It took a long time for things to change. Something I'm full sure that isn't a coincidence is that O'Shea has been excellent, and possibly our best player since Trappatoni took over. The form has been replicated in a United jersey as well. Another thing, he's an absolute gentleman.

I can definitely relate to what you're saying. He does come across as a miserable sod with a bit of a poor attitude. Maybe that's a bit harsh on him, but it's just the impression his body language would give you. I was two years ahead of Gibson at St. Columb's College in Derry a few years back and I remember it must have been around the time when he went on trial with Manchester United, or else he had just signed, but an English teacher of mine, who had also been Gibson's form teacher told us he was one of the worst trouble-makers he'd ever encountered and that those running the college would be delighted to be seeing the back of him. I feel like I'm dishing the dirt on the guy now but this teacher was happy enough to share this with his classes, so it's not like it's a big secret or anything. Any time I've ever seen him out in Derry - about twice a few years ago - he's been sitting in a corner looking like he's in the middle of taking a huff. That appears to be his general demeanour, however. Don't think I've ever seen the guy smile. Whether that says something about his general attitude being poor or not, I dunno. Maybe. Of course, none of that takes away from the fact that he's quite obviously a very talented and technically-gifted footballer.

As for the alleged feud between Gibson and Trap, it's overblown and sensationalist nonsense. I see the Irish Times tries to maintain the farce by describing Trap's response as "scathing". Trap has categorically denied any disagreement, nor did he even suggest Gibson should leave United. Likewise, Gibson's bemused response to whoever fired the ill-informed question his way in the first instance was most likely more to do with him disbelieving or making a mockery of what the interviewer was alleging Trap to have said - because he probably knew that what he was being told was a load of hogwash anyway - rather than having a go at Trap personally.

[Charlie Darwin]

I think Ferguson and Solskjaer have talked a few times about how much self-confidence he has. He seems to be having a bit of a rough time of it at the moment and it's looked like it's taken its toll at times but realistically if he manages to become a regular at Old Trafford then he'll have little trouble getting into the Irish side. Trap might love Whelan/Andrews/Green's energy but I'm sure he'd love to have a midfielder who can do the same job by taking up the right defensive position rather than running himself into the ground.


I was two years ahead of Gibson at St. Columb's College in Derry a few years back and I remember it must have been around the time when he went on trial with Manchester United, or else he had just signed, but an English teacher of mine, who had also been Gibson's form teacher told us he was one of the worst trouble-makers he'd ever encountered and that those running the college would be delighted to be seeing the back of him. I feel like I'm dishing the dirt on the guy now but this teacher was happy enough to share this with his classes, so it's not like it's a big secret or anything. Any time I've ever seen him out in Derry - about twice a few years ago - he's been sitting in a corner looking like he's in the middle of taking a huff. That appears to be his general demeanour, however. Don't think I've ever seen the guy smile. Whether that says something about his general attitude being poor or not, I dunno. Maybe. Of course, none of that takes away from the fact that he's quite obviously a very talented and technically-gifted footballer.
Hmm, that's interesting. We do have this habit of producing moody, Manchester-bound midfielders, don't we?

[DannyInvincible]

Hmm, that's interesting. We do have this habit of producing moody, Manchester-bound midfielders, don't we?

The college gives out this 'alumnus illustrissimus' award on an annual basis that is reserved for past pupils who've stood out as having contributed something of major value or achieved something of significance in their respective fields. Former winners include the likes of Seamus Heaney, John Hume and Martin O'Neill, who even embarked on a law degree at Queen's University in Belfast before giving it up for a career as a professional footballer with Nottingham Forest. Anyway, it's always kind of amused me that, years down the line, if Gibson - the notorious bad egg - were to make it with United and Ireland, maybe even winning a European Cup or something like that along the way,* the college would, no doubt, have to wax lyrical about how valued a pupil he once was at St. Columb's. God forbid, he might even be bestowed with the aforementioned honour and set on the same pedestal as two Nobel laureates! :hypnotized:

*Would a World Cup be stretching it? ;)

[Charlie Darwin]

A World Cup might be pushing it a bit - sure he's not eligible to play for Northern Ireland anymore!

I'll bet Martin O'Neill was a handful at school too, though. Heaney and Hume strike me as nerds of the highest order, though there's always been a bit of mischief to Heaney's poetry.

[geysir]

I don't think Gibson is up to starting at CM. That's it.
I do not see why the contents of dubious, but typical pre-match Indo article become some hammer to beat him with and used to back up negative personal opinions about him.


Like many sporting achievers, he may well have his ambitions about what he wants to achieve in the game. He may well have a stubborn belief in his ability to get there and have a single minded belief that he has the wherewithal to develop his talent and take his place at the very top of the game with his club. All sounds commendable enough to me.

[macdermesser]

Interesting reading the comments by DannyInvincible ... I wonder is Fergie stirring the pot somewhere in all of this. Not exactly the biggest supporter of international football when it comes to his own club's interests. Gibson's alleged "having a laugh?" response suggests that the penny hasn't dropped with him. Anyway, its not Andrews or Green he should be worrying about but Meyler, Mc Carthy and Wilson. Wish this had been all kept out of the news - media looking for a Stephen Ireland or Andy Reid type controversy to hype out of all proportion.

[SwanVsDalton]

The college gives out this 'alumnus illustrissimus' award on an annual basis that is reserved for past pupils who've stood out as having contributed something of major value or achieved something of significance in their respective fields. Former winners include the likes of Seamus Heaney, John Hume and Martin O'Neill, who even embarked on a law degree at Queen's University in Belfast before giving it up for a career as a professional footballer with Nottingham Forest. Anyway, it's always kind of amused me that, years down the line, if Gibson - the notorious bad egg - were to make it with United and Ireland, maybe even winning a European Cup or something like that along the way,* the college would, no doubt, have to wax lyrical about how valued a pupil he once was at St. Columb's. God forbid, he might even be bestowed with the aforementioned honour and set on the same pedestal as two Nobel laureates! :hypnotized:

*Would a World Cup be stretching it? ;)


I'll bet Martin O'Neill was a handful at school too, though.

As an aside - I'm pretty sure Martin O'Neill was expelled from St.Columb's for cheating on a French exam. Allegedly he attempted to sneak in a French-English dictionary. So as you say Danny, our former school would have no difficulty bestowing any honour on Gibson despite his past behaviour - especially since they've gone on to successfully 'claim' an expelled pupil.

As for this Gibson brouhaha - erm, what of it? If ever a story has been blown out of all proportion...Gibson clearly has his heart set on doing it with Man Utd and time will tell whether he makes it. But Trap would like him to play. In the words of Harry Hill: FIGHT!??! Erm, no not really. Sorry over-zealous journos...

[Charlie Darwin]

Interesting reading the comments by DannyInvincible ... I wonder is Fergie stirring the pot somewhere in all of this. Not exactly the biggest supporter of international football when it comes to his own club's interests.
That's never really gone far beyond pulling players out of friendlies and perhaps encouraging Scholes to retire after 10 years in the jersey. Fergie can do the maths as well as anyone - international players are worth more money than non-internationals.

Storm in a teacup. The fact is that if Gibson's game doesn't come on in the next couple of years he'll probably end up at Stoke or an equivalent side anyway and we can all have a good laugh.

[DannyInvincible]

As an aside - I'm pretty sure Martin O'Neill was expelled from St.Columb's for cheating on a French exam. Allegedly he attempted to sneak in a French-English dictionary. So as you say Danny, our former school would have no difficulty bestowing any honour on Gibson despite his past behaviour - especially since they've gone on to successfully 'claim' an expelled pupil.

Was never aware of this. My da was in the same year as O'Neill at St. Columb's so I'll ask him for the gory details. I'm surprised he's never mentioned it before as he used never stop going on about how he once played O'Neill in the final of an end-of-year handball tournament. All in spite of the fact he lost convincingly. He'd usually leave that part out, mind.

[Predator]

Derry men causing trouble? Never...

:D

[SwanVsDalton]

I first heard the story from my Da who was above him at school. Though he's been known to throw the Derry exaggeration on to whatever he says - however it is true O'Neill left the College and finished school elsewhere (St.Malachy's in Belfast I think).

[DannyInvincible]

I've just noticed that 'EalingGreen' has today on OWC decided to pick up on and respond to a post I wrote there in early 2007 in light of my post here last night on what an old English teacher of mine made of Gibson. What commitment... :rolleyes:



I read a post somewhere within this monster of a topic which labelled Gibson a 'scumbag' and the way it read, I felt there was something more to it than simple annoyance towards the guy for not choosing to represent Northern Ireland.

Far be it for anyone to criticise a player who "crosses the divide", whether it be eg Spurs/Arsenal (Campbell), Ranger/Celtic (Mo Johnson) or Liverpool/ManU (Owen).

Anyhow, if Gibson is not a "scumbag", do you recognise this description of him from a certain other website the other day?

"I was two years ahead of Gibson at St. Columb's College in Derry a few years back and I remember it must have been around the time when he went on trial with Manchester United, or else he had just signed, but an English teacher of mine, who had also been Gibson's form teacher told us he was one of the worst trouble-makers he'd ever encountered and that those running the college would be delighted to be seeing the back of him. I feel like I'm dishing the dirt on the guy now but this teacher was happy enough to share this with his classes, so it's not like it's a big secret or anything. Any time I've ever seen him out in Derry - about twice a few years ago - he's been sitting in a corner looking like he's in the middle of taking a huff. That appears to be his general demeanour, however. Don't think I've ever seen the guy smile. Whether that says something about his general attitude being poor or not, I dunno. Maybe."

EG; I'm sure you know well that I am in no position to respond on there due to the eight-year suspension - or however long it was again - of my account. In light of that and the fact your post today was the first in that topic since April of 2008, I suspect you're probably just playing to the gallery, but I'll take the opportunity to respond here as I'm more than certain you'll have no problems seeing it.

I was relaying that anecdote as I found it to be a somewhat humourous, if very basic, insight into the guy's possible character or personality, especially given the thought of a former school mischief-maker potentially being lauded with the highest honour the school could bestow upon its former pupils in later life. There was nothing as acerbic as dubbing him a "scumbag" in what I said. I don't know the guy personally, after all.

To insinuate that it's an admission that Gibson is indeed some sort of "scumbag", however, especially one in the sense or context of which I perceived the original slur used against him on OWC to be meant - with sectarian connotations or a hint of underlying bigotry maybe - would be to misconstrue what I wrote entirely. So, well done; mission accomplished on completely missing the point yet again.

When I took issue with the use of the word "scumbag" to describe Gibson - I can't even remember the exact context now as my memory clearly isn't a patch on yours, but I've had a cursory read of some of the related posts around the time - I certainly didn't take it to amount to a mere evaluation of what the guy's general persona might be like. That's what I was referring to last night. I felt the label on OWC, on the other hand, cut a bit deeper than that; a lot deeper, in fact, than getting up to a bit of trouble when the opportunity presented itself in school or looking glum in a night-club. To be honest, and maybe I was wrong on how I took it, I felt he was being singled out as a "scumbag" specifically because he was a Catholic/nationalist who had decided he'd rather play for us over Northern Ireland. It's all about the context and nuance, EG.

Hypothetically-speaking, if, say, David Healy had been eligible to play for Scotland due to a Scottish parent or something and had declared for them in his youth, as Gibson did with Ireland at the age of 16 or 17, I'm not so sure he would have been victim to the same deluge of bitterness as that to which Gibson found himself being subjected. Shane Duffy fell victim to similar upon his switch to us "Beggars"/the "Darkside". Maybe I misunderstood the vitriol expressed and it had nothing to do with them being Catholics/nationalists preferring to play for Ireland - I'd have to be in very generous mood to offer the benefit of any remaining doubt there - but to accuse me of hypocrisy now, three and a half years later, is a bit rich. I hope that clears up any misunderstanding.

[ken foree]

sorry, way off but... seamus heaney is God.

[paul_oshea]

I first heard the story from my Da who was above him at school. Though he's been known to throw the Derry exaggeration on to whatever he says - however it is true O'Neill left the College and finished school elsewhere (St.Malachy's in Belfast I think).

i was going to say i was pretty sure he spent most of secondary school in belfast where he felt out with gaa crowd because of playing both soccer and gaelic. i didnt think he even spend more than a year or 2 at most at school in derry.