Darron Gibson

[cavan_fan]

Can I ask how he couldn't be eligible? Once you have an Irish passport that's all that matters. If you won an Irish passport with a bottle of coke you're eligible to play for Ireland.

Our views are sort of irrelevant. I'd just like the FAI to get something in writing so we dont have to have endless arguments later on.

As I say I'm not arguing whether he is or is not elgible but he has to meet one of the following:

a) he was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
b ) his biological mother or biological father was born on the territory
of the relevant Association;
c) his grandmother or grandfather was born on the territory of the
relevant Association;
d) he has lived on the territory of the relevant Association for at least
two years without interruption.

The territory of the FAI is the Republic only.

At the very least there is a sliver of doubt here so wouldnt it be nice to get it agreed first.

[eirebhoy]

Ah right.

"A player who, under the terms of Art. 15 of the Regulations Governing
the Application of the FIFA Statutes, is eligible to represent more
than one Association on account of his nationality, may play in an
international match for one of these Associations only if, in addition to
having the relevant nationality, he fulfi ls at least one of the following
conditions:"

So basically every player has to meet one of those conditions regardless. I didn't realise that. I thought as long as you had a passport that was it.

[as_i_say]

has anyone ever actually heard a person from the north ever use "londonderry"? i mean seriously

[EalingGreen]

Ah right.

"A player who, under the terms of Art. 15 of the Regulations Governing
the Application of the FIFA Statutes, is eligible to represent more
than one Association on account of his nationality, may play in an
international match for one of these Associations only if, in addition to
having the relevant nationality, he fulfi ls at least one of the following
conditions:"

So basically every player has to meet one of those conditions regardless. I didn't realise that. I thought as long as you had a passport that was it.

FIFA tightened up on the eligibility criteria when certain countries (e.g. Qatar, Togo) began to abuse the process by naturalising and granting passports to talented footballers from countries (e.g. Brazil) with whom they had "no obvious connection". This came to a head in 2004, when opposing teams objected.
Consequently, FIFA introduced the parents/grandparents/residence requirements for those not born in the territory of the relevant Association.
It is uncertain whether Gibson qualifies for ROI or not - the FAI think "yes", the IFA "no".
As I see it, the argument boils down to the following.
Despite the fact that Gibson is unquestionably "Irish" in the normal sense of the word, when it comes tofootballing purposes, he looks (to me, at least), to be Northern Irish. Consequently, regardless of his affinities etc, seeing as he was not born within the FAI's jurisdiction (Republic), then he needs to demonstrate that he's OK on the parents/grandparents/residency criteria, which it appears he doesn't.
However, the "get-out clause" for the FAI may be as follows.
These additional criteria are only applied where someone, who qualifies by virtue of having dual "nationality", is switching nationality.
Gibson's argument is that he was never NI's in the first place, so the ROI is his first (only) Nationality.
The IFA presumably considers that, regardless of political considerations, he is for footballing purposes from NI, since he was born within the jurisdiction of the IFA. (Therefore he is attempting to "switch").
My own view is that whilst FIFA may be sympathetic to someone in his position, at the very least they failed to consider the implications for NI/ROI nationals when they tightened the Rules.
It is possible, I suppose, that they would therefore declare that Gibson's circumstances establish a "clear connection" with the ROI such that he is not actually switching from NI. (Btw, it looks to me as though the term "clear connection" was coined in addressing the situation in 2004, but not actually incorporated in the Rules anywhere)
However, I think it at least as possible that they will not do so, if for no other reason than that to allow an exception in this case will stir up all sorts of problems in other "disputed" territories, or allow Associations to invent spurious "connections" in order to nab a player.

Interesting. :cool:

[paul_oshea]

yes i have, a guy i emailed in work when i said "derry" he goes sorry where? as though he hadn't a clue what i was on about. he actually went so far as to ignore the whole line in which it was refered to, it was really bizarre actually. So I posted him the wikipedia thing about derry/londonderry :D

[EalingGreen]

yes i have, a guy i emailed in work when i said "derry" he goes sorry where? as though he hadn't a clue what i was on about. he actually went so far as to ignore the whole line in which it was refered to, it was really bizarre actually. So I posted him the wikipedia thing about derry/londonderry :D

How silly. Indeed, he reminds me of those sad individuals who pretend that Northern Ireland doesn't exist, either, for example referring to the "Ireland" football team, when they mean "Republic of Ireland" ;)

[pete]

Has this happened yet.

How else to explain Belgian 2nd division player getting call up?

:confused:

[DannyInvincible]

The policy of giving players senior international caps just to prevent them declaring for other countries is all wrong. The FAI would be up in arms if was being done to them.

:o

I can't see him declaring for Northern Ireland anyway, unless he is actually inelegible to play for the Republic, of course.


The territory of the FAI is the Republic only.

Are you sure of this?


has anyone ever actually heard a person from the north ever use "londonderry"? i mean seriously

A lot of people use it quite seriously. Mainly to make a political statement.

[EalingGreen]

;)
How else to explain Belgian 2nd division player getting call up?

:confused:

Well if that is Staunton's motivation, then he's taking a risk by doing so before FIFA "clear" Gibson.

Btw, Royal Antwerp are MU's "feeder club" in Belgium. I wouldn't necessarily decry them just because they are 2nd Division, otherwise I hardly think MU would be using them.

Interestingly, Gibson is one of three contemporary young Irish players at MU who bear comparison. The first was Paul McShane, apparently highly thought of by Ferguson, but who felt his career would progress better at WBA, than MU Reserves or Antwerp.
The other is Jonny Evans (NI). He was sent to Antwerp at the same time as Gibson, but was recalled early, I think because it was felt he'd gone as far as they could take him. Consequently, Ferguson loaned him to Sunderland, where Keane has pitched him straight in.
Sanchez did the same for him for NI, but at Left Back (he's really a Centre Back), our problem position. In his three caps to date, we beat Spain and Latvia and drew away to Denmark. In all three, JE was outstanding, with both Spain and Denmark subbing the winger he was marking!
If Gibson's half the prospect, he'll do OK. For someone.;)

[DannyInvincible]

Gibson has already represented the Republic at youth level. If he was a legitimate call-up then, what is the difference now?

[paul_oshea]

How silly. Indeed, he reminds me of those sad individuals who pretend that Northern Ireland doesn't exist, either, for example referring to the "Ireland" football team, when they mean "Republic of Ireland"

Not silly no, just ignorant, as he completely ignored the whole sentence because of the word "Derry" ;) Nice try though :) These emoticons are great, they can really patronise when the time needs.

[EalingGreen]

Gibson has already represented the Republic at youth level. If he was a legitimate call-up then, what is the difference now?

Underage matches neither qualify nor disqualify; neither do friendlies. Gibson's case will become pertinent if Stan picks him v San Marino, since that is a competitive (loosely speaking!), senior international match.
Picking a player who is not eligible (or is disqualified) can have very serious potential consequences e.g. match result overturned, fines, bans, ejection from Tournaments etc.

[EalingGreen]

Not silly no, just ignorant, as he completely ignored the whole sentence because of the word "Derry" ;) Nice try though :) These emoticons are great, they can really patronise when the time needs.

If by "ignorant" you actually meant "rude" or "obstreperous", then your co-worker was just so (plus bizarre, as you say).

Personally, I find those people who refuse to use "Northern Ireland" and "Republic of Ireland" in football conversation to be similarly rude and obstreperous, sometimes politically malevolent, though just occasionally ignorant, as well.
And when they go to the trouble of typing out e.g. "the North" and "Ireland", when NI and ROI is so much quicker, then they are plain silly (imo).

There, I hope you didn't find that too condescending* ;)


* - If you need any more explanation, try http://www.answers.com/topic/condescending

[DannyInvincible]

Underage matches neither qualify nor disqualify; neither do friendlies. Gibson's case will become pertinent if Stan picks him v San Marino, since that is a competitive (loosely speaking!), senior international match.
Picking a player who is not eligible (or is disqualified) can have very serious potential consequences e.g. match result overturned, fines, bans, ejection from Tournaments etc.

I know those games didn't disqualify him from playing for Northern Ireland, but they do demonstrate that he is elegible to play for the Republic, surely. The Republic's under-19s can't call up a young French player, for example. They can only call up players who are Irish. Thus, if Gibson was Irish then, he is obviously still Irish.

[EalingGreen]

I know those games didn't disqualify him from playing for Northern Ireland, but they do demonstrate that he is elegible to play for the Republic, surely. The Republic's under-19s can't call up a young French player, for example. They can only call up players who are Irish. Thus, if Gibson was Irish then, he is obviously still Irish.

For friendlies, the ROI could pick Jade Goody if they wanted!
But it may turn out that DG wasn't eligible for any competitive ROI U-19s he may have played since May 2004 (I think - would need to check if same criteria apply below U-21/senior level)

[eirebhoy]

http://forum.shelbournefc.ie/chat/viewtopic.php?t=7820


The first line is the important one " A player who, under the terms of Art. 15". This relates to a player changing allegience from one country to another. Darron is not changing allegience as he has not played in an international for N.Ireland.

It's also relevant that he represented Ireland at underage level prior to the new standards being introduced.

[EalingGreen]

http://forum.shelbournefc.ie/chat/viewtopic.php?t=7820

This may be correct. Or it may not be, as the IFA seems to think. It remains for FIFA to determine.

[co. down green]

A spokesman for the Gibson family, speaking on UTV this evening said that no one from the IFA had approached or contacted Gibson, his family, Manchester United or his representative in England in the last two years and wondered about the real motives regarding the IFA’s sudden interest in their son’s international career and why it was being done via the media.

His uncle said “Darron has a right to play for Ireland, he is an Irish citizen and has the same rights as everyone else on the island. The IFA cannot dictate to us regarding Darron’s right to play for his country .Darron has no interest in lining out for n.i and has always wanted to play for Ireland”

It was pretty much summed up by family friend & SDLP Derry MLA Pat Ramsey who while congratulating Darron on his call up to the senior squad said “Darron should have the right to choose to play for Ireland if that is his wish…It is circumstances where the IFA must accept, respect and support the right of any young person from the North of Ireland to play for Ireland” (Irish News)

The question does need to be asked why the IFA have a problem with Darron Gibson representing his country when they made no such calls when other Derry born players have represented Ireland in the past.

The IFA made no representations to UEFA when Saul Deeny or Kevin Deery represented Ireland at competitive u21 level.

Why ??

The IFA are playing a dangerous game with their ‘harassment by media’ of young Gibson and no doubt will try similar tactics should Harkin, Kane, Deery, Lafferty, O’Connor or Wilson progress to senior international level.

The IFA are well aware that a large proportion of the football supporting community in the North have their international allegiances with ‘the boys in green’ and to try and force players to play for ‘their’ team may well scare off 'some' players who would still choose to represent the North for Career reasons.

The Irish Football Association has to realise that they cannot tell young Irish players that they have to represent n.i , and if it’s about money regarding schoolboy level etc.. I think the Football Association Of Ireland Should be approaching the European governing body with regard to setting up and extending it’s youth development programmes to population centres in the North, to train and nurture young players who want to play for Ireland in the future.

The IFA will come out of this one with a bloody nose and possibly in worse shape than when it started its media attacks on young Gibson.

http://oneteaminireland.bravehost.com/24.html

[cheifo]

Nationalists call it Derry and as we know Unionists call it L'Derry.Such is our situation and it seems pointless to make a big deal about it at this stage.Gibson has represented us at u18. u21 and B level so Howard Wells should just let it go.Hes hardly likely to change back now and would NI supporters really want a player turning out for them if they knew he would rather be playing for somebody else.I dont want to sound preachy but judging by some of the remarks on this issue some people just cant grasp
the simple fact that there is two seperate legitimate cultures on this Island.
We cant force one person to play for somebody they dont want to play for no more than we can order them to stop saying L'Derry.Each to their own.
I am going for a lie down now.

[Paddy Garcia]

The question does need to be asked why the IFA have a problem with Darron Gibson representing his country when they made no such calls when other Derry born players have represented Ireland in the past.

The IFA made no representations to UEFA when Saul Deeny or Kevin Deery represented Ireland at competitive u21 level.

Why ??
http://oneteaminireland.bravehost.com/24.html

Well his Uncle speaks common sense.

A right to self-determination when it suits these guys !

I don't understand the nuance regarding the Deeny or Deery reference, what is being suggested?

[greendeiseboy]

pardon my ignorance and correct me if i'm wrong but haven't alex bruce and alan kernaghan played for us and both have no connection to the "republic". i also remember a young lad by the name of crossan or crossley who was from belfast who played at underage level 4 us and i dont remember any uproar over him at the time

[ofjames]

ger crossley, ex celtic, galway united amongst others

[cheifo]

Diffrence is Gibson seems to have some talent I would guess.:)

[gspain]

pardon my ignorance and correct me if i'm wrong but haven't alex bruce and alan kernaghan played for us and both have no connection to the "republic". i also remember a young lad by the name of crossan or crossley who was from belfast who played at underage level 4 us and i dont remember any uproar over him at the time

Alan Kernaghan played pre 2004 when the rules were different and you just needed a passport to play.

Alex Bruce played U21 and he sparked the row as he "qualifies" through a Northern Ireland born grandmother.

FIFA will probably have to make a ruling.

Reading the statutes it would appear to indicate that Gibson et al are not eligible if they have dual nationality. So I think it boils down to them claiming to have only one nationality eg Irish and thus play for the Republic. Then it depends if being born in the UK means you are automatically British as well then the dual nationality rules apply. This also opens up the can of worms re the 4 UK nations having separate teams. This could get really ugly and really nasty and really political.

I imagine FIFA will try and avoid making a ruling but if the FAI and IFA don't agree they won't have a choice.

[Collyontour]

It seems pretty clear to me. If he has a right to an Irish pasport (i.e. Irish citizenship), he has a right to play. If it's against FIFA's rules, they'll have to change them to suit the law.

[charliesboots]

This might sound drastic but if FIFA or UEFA were to rule that a player born in one of the six counties was not entitled to play for Ireland the government should put pressure on the FAI to temporarily withdraw from all international competition and threaten to resign from FIFA.

Everybody recognises the right of anybody born in the north to be an Irish citizen and consider themselves part of the Irish nation, even unionists. If anybody where to undermine this right it would be absolutely disgraceful.

[liaml]

Personally, I find those people who refuse to use "Northern Ireland" and "Republic of Ireland" in football conversation to be similarly rude and obstreperous, sometimes politically malevolent, though just occasionally ignorant, as well.
And when they go to the trouble of typing out e.g. "the North" and "Ireland", when NI and ROI is so much quicker, then they are plain silly (imo).

There, I hope you didn't find that too condescending* ;)


* - If you need any more explanation, try http://www.answers.com/topic/condescending

Interesting. Coming from the North (Belfast) myself, most people I know uses the term - "the North". I'd say most Nationalists would do so, it's just the way it is.

It would never in a million years occur to me that someone would find the term "the North" to be rude,obstreperous, malevolent or ignorant. It certainly certainly doesn't bother me when someone uses "Northern Ireland".

It depends how you're brought up I suppose, some of us realize we've got different viewpoints and accept it - others don't.


-Liam

[EalingGreen]

This might sound drastic but if FIFA or UEFA were to rule that a player born in one of the six counties was not entitled to play for Ireland the government should put pressure on the FAI to temporarily withdraw from all international competition and threaten to resign from FIFA.


Interesting! It seems to me you're advocating the "nuclear option", even though you don't actually possess any nuclear weapons yourself! I guess that would make you the "Footballing Saddam Hussein" - and look how he ended up! :eek:

Anyhow, although you may have seen it on another thread (Dermot Aherne), I'll re-post the following FIFA Statement re. political interference in footballing affairs:

http://www.fifa.com/en/media/index/0...ticleid=130856

[EalingGreen]

Interesting. Coming from the North (Belfast) myself, most people I know uses the term - "the North". I'd say most Nationalists would do so, it's just the way it is.

It would never in a million years occur to me that someone would find the term "the North" to be rude,obstreperous, malevolent or ignorant. It certainly certainly doesn't bother me when someone uses "Northern Ireland".

It depends how you're brought up I suppose, some of us realize we've got different viewpoints and accept it - others don't.


-Liam

Liam,
I wouldn't argue with any of that - I've long since got over bothering about the North/NI, Derry/L'derry, England/the Mainland etc. But that is in the course of normal conversation.
In my original post, I was referring to the wilful refusal of people to use "NI" and "ROI" in the footballing context, such as on this Board, that's all.
Remember, there is no football team called "Ireland", unless you count the version played by that strange lot who have funny-shaped balls! ;)

[charliesboots]

My post was referring to where people were born.

Ireland (or Éire when using the Irish language) is the name of the state, not the Republic of Ireland. The Republic of Ireland as a place to be born simply doesn't exist and I can refer you to numerous Supreme Court judgments that endorse this if you please.

When referring to the football team, I'll gladly use Northern Ireland. When referring to our football team I prefer the term Ireland for the simple reason that players born on the island of Ireland outside of what is generally known as the Republic of Ireland (26 counties) are still entitled to play for that team. I may have to change this practice should the IFA's challenge succeed.

[gspain]

It seems pretty clear to me. If he has a right to an Irish pasport (i.e. Irish citizenship), he has a right to play. If it's against FIFA's rules, they'll have to change them to suit the law.

Yes but when Qatar handed out passports to some talented Brazilians that's what started the mess. A passport and citizenship are no longer enough.

[Dodge]

Liam,
I wouldn't argue with any of that - I've long since got over bothering about the North/NI, Derry/L'derry, England/the Mainland etc. But that is in the course of normal conversation.
In my original post, I was referring to the wilful refusal of people to use "NI" and "ROI" in the footballing context, such as on this Board, that's all.
Remember, there is no football team called "Ireland", unless you count the version played by that strange lot who have funny-shaped balls! ;)
Lighten up ffs. Its more than likely shorthand. Rather than type Republic of Ireland national team, people type Ireland. As its an almost exclusively Republic of Ireland board, they know what it means. its used the same way Bohs mean Bohemian FC, Rovers mean Shamrock Rovers (unless you're from Sligo) etc etc

The other reason is that its a national side and the nation's name is Ireland. All the FIFA rules in the world won't change that

As someone who consistently refer to the "Irish" side in far worse terms you can get down off your high horse

[gspain]

This might sound drastic but if FIFA or UEFA were to rule that a player born in one of the six counties was not entitled to play for Ireland the government should put pressure on the FAI to temporarily withdraw from all international competition and threaten to resign from FIFA.

Everybody recognises the right of anybody born in the north to be an Irish citizen and consider themselves part of the Irish nation, even unionists. If anybody where to undermine this right it would be absolutely disgraceful.

I hope you are not serious. Do you really think we'd be missed?

[charliesboots]

I hope you are not serious. Do you really think we'd be missed?

As a threat. What other action would you propose. I guarantee you'd win it in court but you know how FIFA are about that. I'd say **** you - ban me and have one of my reliefs as reinstatement to FIFA and their competition.

If they ruled against him Gibson could bring a case himself, if he didn't win it in the national courts he would defo win it in the ECHR

[liaml]

Liam,
I wouldn't argue with any of that - I've long since got over bothering about the North/NI, Derry/L'derry, England/the Mainland etc. But that is in the course of normal conversation.
In my original post, I was referring to the wilful refusal of people to use "NI" and "ROI" in the footballing context, such as on this Board, that's all.
Remember, there is no football team called "Ireland", unless you count the version played by that strange lot who have funny-shaped balls! ;)

Wilful refusal? Are you saying we should have mutual respect for our different viewpoints regarding our nationality - except to when it comes to football?


-Liam

[cavan_fan]

The bizarre thing here is that most of us think he should be entitled to play, not many of us are 100% convinced he is entitiled and yet he may play in a match where he is not needed without the FAI sorting it out.

FIFA should be formally asked if he is eligible. If they say yes we're covered (as Bohs fans will tell you this should amount to more than a chat with someone with a FIFA badge at the side of the pitch). If they say no we should appeal, unleash Dermot Ahern! etc

[gspain]

As a threat. What other action would you propose. I guarantee you'd win it in court but you know how FIFA are about that. I'd say **** you - ban me and have one of my reliefs as reinstatement to FIFA and their competition.

If they ruled against him Gibson could bring a case himself, if he didn't win it in the national courts he would defo win it in the ECHR

I think it is a huge issue for FIFA either way and has serious implications.

I believe we should fight the case. If we lose I think it is up to the player themselves to bring a case possibly with FAI support. There is no way we should even threaten to withdraw from International football. It's a bit like Wayside Celtic or Avondale threatening to pull out of the FAI Cup.

If Northern Ireland lose they could be faced with developing players for us. there are huge implications both ways here and it is a massive decision for FIFA. there are the obvious political implications both ways too.

[cavan_fan]

I think it is a huge issue for FIFA either way and has serious implications.

I believe we should fight the case. If we lose I think it is up to the player themselves to bring a case possibly with FAI support. There is no way we should even threaten to withdraw from International football. It's a bit like Wayside Celtic or Avondale threatening to pull out of the FAI Cup.

If Northern Ireland lose they could be faced with developing players for us. there are huge implications both ways here and it is a massive decision for FIFA. there are the obvious political implications both ways too.

I agree it's an important decision. Leaving aside our knowledge of the particular situation you'd be surprised if FIFA had a rule allowing Player A to play for a Federation that he was not born in (nor were any of his family). You would need to put in some rule allowing a player to declare for an associated federation and not sure how that would be phrased.

[SaucyJack]

Pity Mark McKeever never progressed, this could have been sorted awhile ago.
http://www.ex-canaries.co.uk/players/mckeever.htm

[RiffRaff]

All this discussion about a player who may never make the grade anyway. He certainly hasnt done anything to get into the Ireland squad so i can only conclude that its a political decision to get him tied to us. This could be a trivia question in a few years time - "name the Derry City reserve team player who got 10 minutes action in euro qualifier..."

[gspain]

They have rules but they are open to interpretation.

http://www.fifa.com/documents/static/regulations/Statutes_09_2005_EN.pdf

http://www.fifa.com/documents/static/regulations/Status_Transfer_EN.pdf

This has only been an issue since 2004 when these rules were introduced.

I believe it all hinges on definitions of nationality.

1) Does Darron Gibson have 2 nationalities or just 1?

2) Do FIFA just recognize British (UK nationality) and Irish (RoI) nationality?

If FIFA say he has 2 nationalities then he can't play for us as the criteria are very clear eg no time living in RoI and no parent or grandparent.

If FIFA accept that he is just Irish then they are saying a player born within the jurisdiction of a football association does not have the nationality of that association.

It is complex. it is political and it could get very ugly and very nasty.

[EalingGreen]

My post was referring to where people were born.

Ireland (or Éire when using the Irish language) is the name of the state, not the Republic of Ireland. The Republic of Ireland as a place to be born simply doesn't exist and I can refer you to numerous Supreme Court judgments that endorse this if you please.

When referring to the football team, I'll gladly use Northern Ireland. When referring to our football team I prefer the term Ireland for the simple reason that players born on the island of Ireland outside of what is generally known as the Republic of Ireland (26 counties) are still entitled to play for that team. I may have to change this practice should the IFA's challenge succeed.

Wouldn't argue with your 1st Para, but re your second, you're quite simply wrong. The official name of the FAI team is "Republic of Ireland", as determined by FIFA over 50 years ago*.
Consequently, the FAI is mandated to use ROI on tickets, programmes, official documents etc - and must also do so on the new Scoreboard when Lansdowne is rebuilt. (Until now, they've got away with "borrowing" Rugby's Scorebaord, with its use of "Ireland")
If you don't believe me, consult www.fifa.com


* - If anyone is entitled to use the name "Ireland" for football, it should be the IFA, since we have had it ever since we staged the worlds first competitive international football match in Belfast. In fact, we were told to use "Northern Ireland" (for World Cup and EC matches) at the same time as the FAI were instructed to use ROI. We were allowed to carry on being "Ireland" for British Championship matches, until we stopped in the 1970's (?)

[EalingGreen]

Lighten up ffs. Its more than likely shorthand. Rather than type Republic of Ireland national team, people type Ireland. As its an almost exclusively Republic of Ireland board, they know what it means. its used the same way Bohs mean Bohemian FC, Rovers mean Shamrock Rovers (unless you're from Sligo) etc etc

The other reason is that its a national side and the nation's name is Ireland. All the FIFA rules in the world won't change that

As someone who consistently refer to the "Irish" side in far worse terms you can get down off your high horse

Actually, I was referring to people typing "the North", or even "Six Counties", when "NI" is by far the easiest. Ditto, people typing "Ireland" when "ROI" is easier.

P.S. When it comes to football, FIFA and its rules can change pretty much whatever it likes. That's how it works and if any individual Association doesn't like it, they know what to do. ;)

[EalingGreen]

Wilful refusal? Are you saying we should have mutual respect for our different viewpoints regarding our nationality - except to when it comes to football?


-Liam

Actually, Liam, it's all about respect. When it comes to football, we (i.e. the IFA team) are not "the North", we're Northern Ireland (or NI, when typing). Why not respect that?
Similarly, the FAI team is properly termed "Republic of Ireland" (ROI). I respect that.
In fact, if anyone is entitled to use "Ireland" for its football team, it could only be the IFA, but we respect FIFA's ruling in that regard and desist.

:cool:

[paul_oshea]

British (UK nationality)

gspain I am sure you are aware, but Great Britain and the United Kingdom are two different entities.

[kingdom hoop]

Actually, Liam, it's all about respect. When it comes to football, we (i.e. the IFA team) are not "the North", we're Northern Ireland (or NI, when typing). Why not respect that?
Similarly, the FAI team is properly termed "Republic of Ireland" (ROI). I respect that.
In fact, if anyone is entitled to use "Ireland" for its football team, it could only be the IFA, but we respect FIFA's ruling in that regard and desist.

:cool:

out of interest, do people from the north call their team ireland? i call my team ireland, so when referring to the team in a forum is it ok to say ireland. i think so. this debate serves to highlight the identity problem of people from NI.

you've spent so much time tapping the keys about whether we should be ROI and you NI that at this stage we're not much time has been saved at all. but i suspect your point is not to help us type quicker, though i would appreciate any tips on this matter so i can improve my work ethic and live the capitalist dream..

whatever about the historical foundations of the IFA i think nowadays the FAI is more entitled to the ireland tag given the north prefix to the jurisdiction covered by the IFA, and in turn is ruled by the United Kingdom of Great Britain. while the FAI is within the republic of ireland, if it was the republic of southern ireland i would think differently, what do you think?

[kingdom hoop]

gspain I am sure you are aware, but Great Britain and the United Kingdom are two different entities.

dont think so paul

[paul_oshea]

kingdomHoop your last paragraph is incorrect, it is not the united kingdom of great britain, northern ireland is part of the United kingdom not great britain

"Great Britain is the largest island of the British Isles. It lies to the northwest of Continental Europe with Ireland to the west and comprises the larger part of the territory of the United Kingdom."

"The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (usually shortened to the United Kingdom, the UK, or Britain[1]) is a country[2] and sovereign state that lies to the northwest of Continental Europe with the Republic of Ireland to the west."

[liaml]

Actually, Liam, it's all about respect. When it comes to football, we (i.e. the IFA team) are not "the North", we're Northern Ireland (or NI, when typing). Why not respect that?
Similarly, the FAI team is properly termed "Republic of Ireland" (ROI). I respect that.
In fact, if anyone is entitled to use "Ireland" for its football team, it could only be the IFA, but we respect FIFA's ruling in that regard and desist.

:cool:

I'm talking about _mutual_ respect. You know - you respect my beliefs and traditions whilst having differing ones yourself.

I have absolutely no problem with you following 'NI' and calling it your national team. You however take umbrage when I refer to my national team as Ireland? Presumably like the IFA, you would try and stop Nationalists playing for Ireland (or ROI if you prefer).

I assume that since you're such a pedant for correct terminology you've never referred to the six counties of the North (or NI if you prefer) as "Ulster" :D


-Liam

[kingdom hoop]

kingdomHoop your last paragraph is incorrect, it is not the united kingdom of great britain, northern ireland is part of the United kingdom not great britain

"Great Britain is the largest island of the British Isles. It lies to the northwest of Continental Europe with Ireland to the west and comprises the larger part of the territory of the United Kingdom."

"The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (usually shortened to the United Kingdom, the UK, or Britain[1]) is a country[2] and sovereign state that lies to the northwest of Continental Europe with the Republic of Ireland to the west."

sorry paul, i should have done my research, or paid more attention in school!
i think i understand. i should have said the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. or just the Uk, or would the united kingdom of northern ireland work, hardly i suppose seeing as though NI isnt really united on a lot of levels. i cant believe we, or me, have stooped this low. what oh what would darron gibson think? i thought the good friday agreement clairified this area anyway, arent athletes allowed to represent either team?