Covid 19 - LOI Ramifications

[D24Saint]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-8151031/Coronavirus-UK-National-League-set-CANCEL-season-knock-effect-League-Two.html

I reckon we are in similar waters if the June deadline is passed, thankfully we are months off that problem and have time to see how things develop.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Know its all doom and gloom but this can really be looked at as an opportunity for the league to test things out. Stuff like seeing does playing twice home and away really harm crowds, could a league split work, playoffs for Europe, etc, obviously you can't test them all but the FAI could take a few they'd like to try out and give them a go, seasons ****ed anyway may as well make the best of it and use it to try things.

Also interesting to note Gibraltar seem to have gotten rid of promotion and relegation, could be something interesting for the FAI to look into, the exact wording of that requirement.

[John83]

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2020/0326/1126562-fifa-want-contracts-extended-and-transfer-windows-moved/
FIFA offer very little of use. Contracts should be extended: by agreement? So no change there. Or automatically? Not remotely legal.

[D24Saint]

Does a temporary layoff constitute a breach of contract ie a player can jump ship if he wants without transfer fee ?

[Joe Strummer]

Does a temporary layoff constitute a breach of contract ie a player can jump ship if he wants without transfer fee ?

I think if the club fail to pay him for 4 weeks he is a free agent.

[pineapple stu]

Does a temporary layoff constitute a breach of contract ie a player can jump ship if he wants without transfer fee ?
I think in employment law, you can be temporarily laid off for up to 7 weeks - usually in, say, a company going into examinership where there's a chance of it being bought/restructured. As a formal process, this should overrule non-payment of wages Joe Strummer mentions.

So probably the same thing holds here. But who's going to be looking at transfers now?

[Mr A]

Tapping up has started already!

[D24Saint]

I think in employment law, you can be temporarily laid off for up to 7 weeks - usually in, say, a company going into examinership where there's a chance of it being bought/restructured. As a formal process, this should overrule non-payment of wages Joe Strummer mentions.

So probably the same thing holds here. But who's going to be looking at transfers now?

Just interested if a player potentially wanted to move upon the league restarting what the situation would be.

[DCWA]

Tapping up has started already!

Do you actually believe it ever stops ? Clubs having a quiet unofficial word with other clubs players is ever present in LOI always has been always will be.

[pineapple stu]

Another factor I suppose is that legislation is being drawn up on a regular basis specifically for this issue.

I don't think it's possible to say how it'd affect someone looking for a transfer tbh

[Ezeikial]

Try Neale Fenn, Transfer Consultancy

[ToberonaTornado]

Nobody is getting carried away, it's pretty clear everyone is talking about the potential return date fully aware of the huge astrix beside it. We're not doctors or medical experts, we're random people on the Internet that want to talk about LOI so obviously that's what we're going to talk about here. Everyone knows that it's not the priority but you don't have to focus on the priority 24/7.
Financially though abandoning the league is just putting a bullet in every single club in the county, and I include Rovers and Dundalk in that. Might not kill those two but it would come very close at least. Abandoning a league at professional level never makes sense for anyone involved. It'll have to be finished in some form one way or another.

Who haven't a fecking clue wtf's going on.?

Why will IT have to be finished in some form or another?

[D24Saint]

Reckon April will be a huge month in how things are proceeding if things are still getting worse by the end of April then forget about season 2020.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Who haven't a fecking clue wtf's going on.?

Why will IT have to be finished in some form or another?

Yeah we haven't a clue what's going on and we're on a LOI forum reacting to updates on the LOI. Giving out to people for discussing the latest news on the LOIs return rather that life in general on here is just ridiculous nit picking and completely unnecessary.

And yeah it does have to be finished in some form or else every club in the country is going to the wall because they'll have to honour contracts and potentially pay out refunds with absolutely no income whatsoever. Nevermind all the problems it'll cause regarding Europe. Abandoning the league completely would be the final nail in the coffin for clubs and considering we still have 10 months before the next season starts completely ridiculous to be even considering at this point.

[Ezeikial]

The argument free zone didn't last long

https://foot.ie/attachment.php?attachmentid=2838&stc=1

[ToberonaTornado]

Yeah we haven't a clue what's going on and we're on a LOI forum reacting to updates on the LOI. Giving out to people for discussing the latest news on the LOIs return rather that life in general on here is just ridiculous nit picking and completely unnecessary.

And yeah it does have to be finished in some form or else every club in the country is going to the wall because they'll have to honour contracts and potentially pay out refunds with absolutely no income whatsoever. Nevermind all the problems it'll cause regarding Europe. Abandoning the league completely would be the final nail in the coffin for clubs and considering we still have 10 months before the next season starts completely ridiculous to be even considering at this point.

Stay healthy RH .
i wish you and everyone here the same.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

The argument free zone didn't last long

https://foot.ie/attachment.php?attachmentid=2838&stc=1

Hardly an argument.

God help anyone about to be stuck with the same people 24/7 for the next two weeks that classes that as an argument.

[BonnieShels]

Reckon April will be a huge month in how things are proceeding if things are still getting worse by the end of April then forget about season 2020.

Ignoring the contractual problem for a moment, and I know it doesn't affect the LOI nearly as much as other countries' leagues, but is there any merit for extending the 2019/2020 season into 2021 if need be and completely bypassing the 2020/2021 season completely.

This way "voiding" doesn't come into it. And then if all is well, start the 2021/2022 season as normal (or as normal as possible as you can with Qatar looming.

[pineapple stu]

I would say if this goes on another couple of months, UEFA will probably jump in with formal guidance as to how to proceed, particularly with regards European spots.

In England, non-league seasons have been voided - so no promotion/relegation. Obviously Liverpool will be trying desperately to avoid the same thing happening further up...

[Ezeikial]

Hardly an argument.

God help anyone about to be stuck with the same people 24/7 for the next two weeks that classes that as an argument.

Love and light to you too RH

[Kingswood Rover]

howya Mods can you guys please bring back Marino Bohs we are all in this together, bygones be bygones and all that.

[Nesta99]

I would say if this goes on another couple of months, UEFA will probably jump in with formal guidance as to how to proceed, particularly with regards European spots.

In England, non-league seasons have been voided - so no promotion/relegation. Obviously Liverpool will be trying desperately to avoid the same thing happening further up...

Makes sense that they would take average league placings over a 5 year period or so and then just allocate that club the 21/22 Champions League berth, or the 20/21 qualification carries over. Either way there'd be no complaints here! Not as if clubs havent been selected in LoI based on season on season performances before....

[joey B]

Does anyone really believe we'll have football this season? Serie A rumoured to be going to cancelled this week,can see La Liga following suit and the same in the UK. Football won't ever be the same after this I think .........

[Nesta99]

Just think of all those stars on every league table....

[Martinho II]

The way Jack Grealish is behaving at present he obviously believes that the season is over!

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Makes sense that they would take average league placings over a 5 year period or so and then just allocate that club the 21/22 Champions League berth, or the 20/21 qualification carries over. Either way there'd be no complaints here! Not as if clubs havent been selected in LoI based on season on season performances before....

Only clubs that would be happy with that would be Dundalk and Cork. A 5 year average doesn't work in a league as volatile as the LOI, you'd have clubs arguing why 5, why not 10, and such at least. Can't see it ever happening. If the leagues cancelled anyway it'll probably mean that qualifiers for Europe have been cancelled too so one solution would be to roll those qualifiers over but even that would cause uproar.


Does anyone really believe we'll have football this season? Serie A rumoured to be going to cancelled this week,can see La Liga following suit and the same in the UK. Football won't ever be the same after this I think .........

Leagues where their next season starts in August, not late February, not comparable.

[D24Saint]

Only clubs that would be happy with that would be Dundalk and Cork. A 5 year average doesn't work in a league as volatile as the LOI, you'd have clubs arguing why 5, why not 10, and such at least. Can't see it ever happening. If the leagues cancelled anyway it'll probably mean that qualifiers for Europe have been cancelled too so one solution would be to roll those qualifiers over but even that would cause uproar.



Leagues where their next season starts in August, not late February, not comparable.

They could always push next season back to the end of march and if need be play in January in a worst case scenario , I think the league is missing a trick and a huge opportunity if they don't finish the league in the run up to crimbo and perhaps play the cup final on St Stephens day imo it has he possibility to be a huge crowd. I hope they don't play the cup final before the conclusion of the league.

[Nesta99]

Well I wasnt being serious on just awarding the league/Europe on a 5 year record - more that it would suit us and a tad ironic that in the past we were excluded based on a 5 year record. Of course if such a thing was ever on the table then super! It would be interesting though, to see how the FAI would allocate 21/22 Euro slots in the event of this season being voided and Europen club competition resumes next July. Names out of a hat, club-coefficient (which would make some sense), the table as it stands, some sort of play-off system, a single round of game next year, offer places to the clubs left standing :eek:. It would be such an important year to be in CL if existing plans for EL2 stand. Would clubs take a wedge of compensation money, say for 2 or 3 rounds and run? Its obviously very frustrating for all but Dundalk recruited and were looking to peak for July and were well on target for that. VP did say that players were at risk of over training on their own so were told to dial it back, the change in nutritional needs have been rolled out to the players also so there is some contingency work going on for the various different scenarios. Anyone know what other clubs are doing? I read somewhere and I dont think it was Dundalk where a club let their gym equipment go out to players.

[sbgawa]

4 or 5 matches to finish off the first round of 9 matches for each team.
What could be fairer than that.
Could all be done in a couple of weeks :)

[redobit]

Its going to be a shortened league no matter what happens. So there is two options in my opinion - play 2 series of games (home and away) or play the last 3 series of games.

Either way the first series of games needs to be written off (we've only played half of them), so players and teams can get a pre-season of a few weeks or so.

Of course I would think its the best option given our start but starting a fresh with a shortened season seems the best / fairest way to do it.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Its going to be a shortened league no matter what happens. So there is two options in my opinion - play 2 series of games (home and away) or play the last 3 series of games.

Either way the first series of games needs to be written off (we've only played half of them), so players and teams can get a pre-season of a few weeks or so.

Of course I would think its the best option given our start but starting a fresh with a shortened season seems the best / fairest way to do it.

In what world does it make sense to be talking about squeezing in games into a limited time frame and scrapping games already played? Those are completely at odds with each other.

[redobit]

In what world does it make sense to be talking about squeezing in games into a limited time frame and scrapping games already played? Those are completely at odds with each other.

I didn't say squeeze in games into a limited time frame, I said shorten the season ... tbf a big difference.

What Im getting at would allow the option of either 2 series or 3 series of games. For example, if league gets going in Aug / Sept - do 3 series of games. If it gets going in Nov. / Dec then maybe do 2 series of games. Plus add in a two week pre season.

This allows for a flexible approach, which can be altered depending on how things go before mass gatherings can happen again!

[RathfarnhamHoop]

I didn't say squeeze in games into a limited time frame, I said shorten the season ... tbf a big difference.

What Im getting at would allow the option of either 2 series or 3 series of games. For example, if league gets going in Aug / Sept - do 3 series of games. If it gets going in Nov. / Dec then maybe do 2 series of games. Plus add in a two week pre season.

This allows for a flexible approach, which can be altered depending on how things go before mass gatherings can happen again!

Shortening the league is squeezing it into the limited time frame available.

Even what you're saying there in what universe does it make sense to say "oh were going to be tight on time to do this, let's throw away what we have and start again" ? Makes absolutely no sense. You can still have the 3 round league (what they're doing now) or two round league while including what's been played and avoid the potential legal action.

Just saying it because Sligo are bottom.

[redobit]

Shortening the league is squeezing it into the limited time frame available.

Even what you're saying there in what universe does it make sense to say "oh were going to be tight on time to do this, let's throw away what we have and start again" ? Makes absolutely no sense. You can still have the 3 round league (what they're doing now) or two round league while including what's been played and avoid the potential legal action.

Just saying it because Sligo are bottom.

Shortening the league is not squeezing it into a limited time frame ... you don't seem to get that. Squeezing the league is playing two or three games a week. Shortening the league is dropping a series or two of games and playing once a week as normal. We will be literally starting the season again, why shouldn't we start the season again and just play less games.

Im not saying it cause we have had a bad start. Im saying it because other other leagues (womens, english, rugby) that have played an awful lot more games than us who have simply scrapped the season. Dont be surprised if it happens, because other nations are doing it. Take off the tinted glasses.

LOI clubs meeting from today so Id say we will hear soon enough.

[Nesta99]

Shortening the league is squeezing it into the limited time frame available.

Even what you're saying there in what universe does it make sense to say "oh were going to be tight on time to do this, let's throw away what we have and start again" ? Makes absolutely no sense. You can still have the 3 round league (what they're doing now) or two round league while including what's been played and avoid the potential legal action.

Just saying it because Sligo are bottom.

and not wanting games played to be scrapped for a shorter season from scratch has absolutely nothing to do with Rovers beating Bohs and Dundalk and are top of the table!??

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Shortening the league is not squeezing it into a limited time frame ... you don't seem to get that. Squeezing the league is playing two or three games a week. Shortening the league is dropping a series or two of games and playing once a week as normal. We will be literally starting the season again, why shouldn't we start the season again and just play less games.

Im not saying it cause we have had a bad start. Im saying it because other other leagues (womens, english, rugby) that have played an awful lot more games than us who have simply scrapped the season. Dont be surprised if it happens, because other nations are doing it. Take off the tinted glasses.

LOI clubs meeting from today so Id say we will hear soon enough.

You are squeezing the season into a shortened time frame, the fact you're cutting parts of it off just emphasises that.
Shortening squeezing tomayto, tomahto.

We'd only be literally starting the league again because you want to scrap games so you can't use that as a reason to scrap the games.

Why shouldn't we count the games already played? You still haven't given a single reason as to why they should be scrapped other than your wee bit of circular reasoning.

Completely scraping a league and scraping one just to start it again are completely different things and what you're suggesting would leave the FAI open to all sorts of legal implications. Tad ironic to claim I have tinted glasses. Pot, kettle... Again there isn't a single legitimate reason to argue the league should be restarted from scratch.



and not wanting games played to be scrapped for a shorter season from scratch has absolutely nothing to do with Rovers beating Bohs and Dundalk and are top of the table!??

I haven't claimed to be unbiased but that doesn't make it any less ridiculous to suggest rendering perfectly valid games null and void for absolutely no reason (still hasn't been one, refuse to count that shocking circular reasoning as one, never mind a good one) for why it may be necessary.

[Ezeikial]

While there are a number of different options possible depending on when it is possible to play again, if the season does restart it would be grossly unfair if the current league leaders did not have the benefit of the 15 points won so far

Shortening the season (with or without the squeezing) and/or running it to Jan are all options. But the debate is fairly moot until some clarity emerges on when football is feasible

[oriel]

If we are in a situation to play two full rounds in 2020 (I think earliest might be late June), it will be a squeeze to get all in by end of the year to have a break / pre season before Mid Feb 2021.

Some will argue two fresh rounds, start over as the yanks would say, all start on zero points, all have 1 home, 1 away would seem the fairest.

However if we were top by 3 points, I`m not sure I`d be happy with that ! , but then again if this is the case for 2 full rounds, it means we have missed one home game v Rovers and will end up playing them away twice, but this would be no different to the 33 games season when this was the case some years, you played some teams twice at home, then reverted back following season to twice away, once at home.

In summary, I would think two full rounds might work, so 18 more games, keep the points for the first 5 games, so in effect it becomes a 23 series.

However, if this goes on beyond June (good chance), the next football we see might be Feb 2021, then its just the small matter of declaring DFC 2020 champions over a 5 year record criteria :D

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Some will argue two fresh rounds, start over as the yanks would say, all start on zero points, all have 1 home, 1 away would seem the fairest.

In summary, I would think two full rounds might work, so 18 more games, keep the points for the first 5 games, so in effect it becomes a 23 series.


I know you're not saying that it would be fairest but I just can't possibly see what people would think would be unfair about counting the games already played? It's not as if some clubs have a longer break than others, it's the same across the board, there's nothing unfair about it.

I don't think you can count the 5 games and have a 2.5 rounds season, teams would argue that they had a tougher first 5 games than others. Corks fixtures vs Finn Harps fixtures springs to mind.

[El-Pietro]

Playing 2 full rounds on top of the 5 played seems the most bizarre suggestion I've heard yet. If you said you wanted to finish out an 18 game season on top of the 5 games played that would be a reasonable argument as everyone would end up playing the same fixture list, but with 5/9 games no way is that a fair fixture list. As RH points out we have already had to travel to Rovers and Dundalk, while Harps have only played Dundalk at home. Now its not unusual for LOI teams to have an imbalanced home/away fixture list so I'd get over that aspect.
The other problem is that only 4 teams have played 5 games so far. What do you do? Take away the 5th game? Have the other 6 teams play one extra game so that 4 tams play 18 games and 6 play 19?

I genuinely don't think there will be any more sport in 2020.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

I don't share the view that there won't be any more sport this year but if there isn't the question becomes do you combine the season because at that point you're looking at a delayed start to the 2021 season but if you add in the 4/5 games played that allows you leeway for that and potentially remove some midweek games.

[El-Pietro]

I don't share the view that there won't be any more sport this year but if there isn't the question becomes do you combine the season because at that point you're looking at a delayed start to the 2021 season but if you add in the 4/5 games played that allows you leeway for that and potentially remove some midweek games.

I think if the season doesn't happen in 2020 then you sort of have to scrap the games played.

At a high-level I see three options available for all leagues world wide and the viability for each depends on the calendar for that league.

1) You finish the current season as soon as possible, posisbly having a knock on effect on future seasons.
2) You shorten the current season to finish it within a reasonable time frame - but sporting integrity must be maintained - schedules need to be at least reasonably fair.
3) You abandon the current season.

For leagues that are nearing their end, all European Winter leagues, the NBA and NHL I would suggest finishing them, no matter how long it takes. You can pay a shortened season in 2020/21, or cancel that season entirely if needs be. There is too much invested into a 3/4 finished season to just abandon it. If you just end the season and declare winners etc you are opening yourself up for lawsuits. Liverpool are basically champions but what about CL spots, relegation, those are still being fought for. Same for promotion from lower tiers, and titles in other leagues/ For leagues with playoffs (like NBA and NHL) you can probably make changes to the playoff system without massive consequences on sporting integrity. Turn two legged ties into single legs, shorten playoff series, if you were supposed to play a round of home and away shorten that to just home or away. There are solutions available.

For seasons that have not started, or have just begun the approach will depend on when you can return. So for us, and MLB for example if we can return in June then play a half season or 2/3rds. Games that are already played still count. Its not ideal but it can work. However if games cannot realistically be played until say September for example - what do you do then? Extend the season into Jan/Feb and play out an 18 game season? Maybe. What if its November before we can play again? There is going to be a tipping point where you have to say its not practical to finish the 2020 season and its better to scrap it and start again.

I realise that is going to be unfair to Rovers who were off to a good start, but no matter what solution we go with someone gets screwed. We are just 4.5 games into the season and Rovers lead is pretty small. I don't even know if the bookies would have had them as favourites.

There is a fourth option available to Winter leagues. You stop the season today but don't relegate anyone. So in England you say top 4 go to CL, Liverpool are Champions. No relegation. Promote the top 2 from the Championship and have a 22 team league next year. Then you relegate 5 teams in 2021. Carry this on down the leagues. It would sitll cause legal issues though with broadcasters, teams fighting for CL spaces, playoff teams in the Championship etc.

[oriel]

Just on the winter leagues, absoultely shut them all down now and leave positions as they are. This will be trickey for relegation spots, but they will have to work that out.

Belgium took the right decison yesterday and led by example.

As for us, I work in Dublin and don't see myself going back there until June, maybe end of, so that's probably the earliest football or when most sport can re-commence in Ireland, if LOI can't re-start before 1st July thats it my view, how can we have a season in 2020.

Then what do the euro teams too, if that gets the go ahead, they'll have to start back training in June, will they be allowed, will euro games even be on, plenty of questions, not enough answers, as no one really knows how all of ths will pan out.

[joey B]

I'd agree with all of the above but the main reason I think they'll find a way to finish the season is simply money,billions of pounds would need to be paid back in tv money across Europe and that doesn't even factor the possibility of supporters asking for season ticket money back,could sponsors ask for money back ?

Then you have the possibility of litigation from the likes of Leeds,West Brom even Coventry,these are hundreds of millions of pounds on the line that league positions decide,whatever happens not everyone will be happy and legal action could happen in any manner of scenarios,a proper mess......

[oriel]

I realise that is going to be unfair to Rovers who were off to a good start, but no matter what solution we go with someone gets screwed. We are just 4.5 games into the season and Rovers lead is pretty small. I don't even know if the bookies would have had them as favourites.



I like to watch odds during the season, and I took a screenshot of the PP betting on 29/02 (day after the 3-2 Rovers win over DFC) and the prices were as follows

Dundalk 11/10
Rovers 11/10
Bohs 20/1
Derry 20/1
Pats 40/1
Shels 40/1

Dundalk had moved from evens and Rovers from 7/4

[sbgawa]

I think the FAI would look to go to a 2 series of games and still have a league this year if 3 is to many to squeeze in.
The league in the distant past often was only mid 20's games long and at least it sorts out promotion relegation and Europe for this year.
Id rather that then move back to winter football tbh and not just because Rovers have a pretty irrelevant 3 point advantage

[nigel-harps1954]

There's no way either FAI, or the clubs, can afford to scrap this current league season. Contracts need to be fulfilled, season tickets need to be honoured, and a lot of money spent will be wasted.

Whether it's June, July, September, October, or whenever, the league needs to pick up where it left off.

You can look at the 2021 season then being a shortened season, planned in advance, to get all the financials in the right place.

[redarmyfaction]

There's no way either FAI, or the clubs, can afford to scrap this current league season. Contracts need to be fulfilled, season tickets need to be honoured, and a lot of money spent will be wasted.

Whether it's June, July, September, October, or whenever, the league needs to pick up where it left off.

You can look at the 2021 season then being a shortened season, planned in advance, to get all the financials in the right place.
The floodlights have gone out all over Europe, Nige and it's a long time before we will see them lit again.

[Nesta99]

I'd agree with all of the above but the main reason I think they'll find a way to finish the season is simply money,billions of pounds would need to be paid back in tv money across Europe and that doesn't even factor the possibility of supporters asking for season ticket money back,could sponsors ask for money back ?

Then you have the possibility of litigation from the likes of Leeds,West Brom even Coventry,these are hundreds of millions of pounds on the line that league positions decide,whatever happens not everyone will be happy and legal action could happen in any manner of scenarios,a proper mess......

Could TV deals, season ticket et al be just extended for the time out. No obligation to do so but it would be something of a collaborative effort. I doubt a tv company would want to a participant in financially gutting elite football assuing the can keep their own show on he road.

[osarusan]

If the season has to be shortened, it should be done by removing games yet to be played, rather than games already played.

So if it is to be just two rounds, continue the current round and play one more.

I don't see any argument for expunging existing results.