Covid 19 - LOI Ramifications

[oriel]

What was the reason for Rovers being the only one from the 10 PD clubs to vote against the 1 up 1 down proposal?

Surely not to have more competitive games for their b team in a league that they can't get promoted from?

I think 13 games, 14 for some is far too short, would have much preferred making it up to 27 and play a few mid week games or extend season into mid nov, but it is what it is, and great to have football back to look forward to. I have little interest in english football so all that stuff on last few weeks wasn't for me.

[oriel]

Try to actually win something for the first time in nearly 50 years and I might take your yo-yo club seriously as it might finally bring something to the PD 😃

TL, leave it out for christ sake, Finn Harps are one of the most least offensive clubs out there, only been up there twice myself, but a very friendly club and a welcome addition to the league for representing such a large county, and a real community club.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Just heard the Sligo treasurers radio interview. Only one word describes it.
Pathetic.
Basically just said that the first division clubs were less worthy than them and that they should be punished instead of the Premier division clubs (even though that "punishment" for Premier division clubs is just the rules they signed up for) absolutely pathetic

[Ezeikial]

What Sligo Rovers' treasurer David Rowe appears to be suggesting is that the relevant voting took place in the Executive Committee where it was passed 3-2 because Shamrock Rovers followed their own agenda rather than representing the views of the Premier Division clubs.


"There was an expectation that all ten clubs would back that, Shamrock Rovers took their position, and then somewhat disappointedly when it went forward to the Executive Committee where there are three representatives from the Premier Division and two from the First Division, the Shamrock Rovers official adopted a club position rather than carrying a 9/1 mandate.

https://www.otbsports.com/sport/theres-anger-among-nine-premier-division-clubs-sligo-rovers-david-rowe-1038751

[RathfarnhamHoop]

He's also talking out his hole because there's at least an independent member and a rep for the refs on that board too so couldn't have had a 3-2 vote because that's at least 2 members short

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Best part of the interview was when he was asked why he thought Rovers voted different and he said that they wanted to keep the league more competitive... First off How's that supposed to be a bad thing? Second how would that benefit Rovers any more than Dundalk? If anything it's the other way round.

It's amazing how some corners are trying to spin this as Rovers acting in their own self interest when it's something that just isn't going to affect us in the slightest. It's almost as if its just the right thing to do...

Id say any club that refuse to play just kick them out and that solves that issue.
Or are Sligo and Waterford just preparing for next season already when they're in the FDA refusing to play Rovers 2?

[The Lilywhites]

Rovers did it to get the FD clubs back onside, in the hope that Rovers B will be allowed to participate in the league into the future without any hassle like this year. Simple enough really.

[ontheotherhand]

Or it was the best possible path forward and they knew it was the only one with any real hope of getting the PD and FD back playing football in a format that encourages competition - Or both, in which case, it's not a bad bit of club mgmt is it?

[nigel-harps1954]

Sums up the Arrogance right there. Expecting fans of other teams to fund improvements to your ground, Criticising the State for not handing out enough money for a new one. Could go on.

Sure look, we could just head out to the local council and demand they build one for us?

[brendy_éire]

Or it was the best possible path forward and they knew it was the only one with any real hope of getting the PD and FD back playing football in a format that encourages competition - Or both, in which case, it's not a bad bit of club mgmt is it?

Or because they've got a lead on Dundalk, and fancy their chances at the title better over a short season than a long one?
I'd doubt whether 'encouraging competition' is high up on any club's agenda in getting the league back. They'll all be looking out for themselves. Are any club acting altruistically in all of this? Doubt it.

I see Waterford aren't committing to coming back playing yet and are considering options.
Sligo have launched a fundraising campaign. I'd wonder that if, say after four more games, they're still without a win, would they just give up on the season, play the U19s, and save themselves some cash?

Did anything come out of that PCA meeting last night?
Personally, I don't mind restarting under the current system, but I think it's silly to go with a format that half the league are unhappy about.
Looking at the IL, things are getting a bit messy there. Both Institute and PSNI have launched appeals against their relegation. We could see something similar in the LoI, or maybe it could end up in the courts (it's been a while!).

Now, all this might be solved if the government fire a wheelbarrow of cash at the league, but there's no sign of that yet.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Short season or long season wasn't a Rovers decision. That decision was dictated to everyone by the smaller clubs refusing to extend contracts. Understandably. So unless clubs wanted to play two games a week every week it was 2 rounds or nothing.

The half the season half the punishment is nonsense, there's half the games yes but your points are still proportional and even if you look at it as you've half the chance to claw back points you've also half the chance to be clawed back. In other words it's fair. Sheer small mindedness of some Premier division clubs to think they should be given preferential treatment over first division club. I bet you any amount of money that next year those same clubs whether in public or in private will be moaning about the first division being neglected when they're inevitably relegated

[Crosshead]

This won't be a popular opinion, but I don't think it's fair to give First Division clubs the same say as Premier Division clubs when it comes to this. You have amateur organisations having an equal say on decisions that will impact professional outfits that are facing far greater financial demands and risks.

[geysir]

What Sligo Rovers' treasurer David Rowe appears to be suggesting is that the relevant voting took place in the Executive Committee where it was passed 3-2 because Shamrock Rovers followed their own agenda rather than representing the views of the Premier Division clubs.



https://www.otbsports.com/sport/theres-anger-among-nine-premier-division-clubs-sligo-rovers-david-rowe-1038751

Re the three premier clubs who are on the executive committee, are they not on that committee to represent the interests of the premier division and in this case mandated to represent the premier division club's 9 -1 decision?

[The Lilywhites]

Re the three premier clubs who are on the executive committee, are they not on that committee to represent the interests of the premier division and in this case mandated to represent the premier division club's 9 -1 decision?

Exactly, but according to the Irish Times, Noel Byrne Shamrock Rovers went on a solo run and used his vote to look after Rovers and side with the FD clubs rather than doing what he was elected to do.

[pineapple stu]

This won't be a popular opinion, but I don't think it's fair to give First Division clubs the same say as Premier Division clubs when it comes to this. You have amateur organisations having an equal say on decisions that will impact professional outfits that are facing far greater financial demands and risks.
While there's some logic to that in general, it goes out the window when it comes to completely changing what was agreed at the start of the season regarding promotion/relegation.

All the current delay means is that we have to come to a different way of deciding who the 2 up 2 down are. There has been no reasonable argument as yet put forward as to why that should change. First Division clubs have outgoings and commitments just like Premier Division clubs.

#FirstDivisionLivesMatter

[Bunny Kelly]

Clubs that are moaning 13 games are too short to save their season, were those clubs not trying the first 5 games so? How would any club have approached those games differently if they had known it was an 18 game season?

Everyone gets to play the teams in their Division home & away, same as the world over so I don't see why you would change promotion & relegation. If it was left up to clubs in the Premier then there would never be relegation!!

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Re the three premier clubs who are on the executive committee, are they not on that committee to represent the interests of the premier division and in this case mandated to represent the premier division club's 9 -1 decision?

It's down to interpretation. There's no obligation for them to represent the league as a whole above their own views. It's like the Dail, the TDs are elected to represent their areas but they have free reign to do as they wish and sometimes what they deem to be best for the country as a whole may not be what the people that elected them want. Others may go and do what's best for their area to the detriment of the country as a whole. There's pros and cons to both approaches but the Healy Raes get blasted on here a bit and they'd be in the second group just for reference.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

The bottom line is worst case scenario with one relegation spot you could render about a third of first division games pointless and many premier division games in the last few rounds the same. With the added playoff though the number of pointless games reduces dramatically and the worst case scenario is a team has an unlucky run of form and has to playoff against a first division side to stay up. And if they lose that first division side you really have to question was it an unlucky run of form or was it what they deserved? If they win then there's no harm done.

[redarmyfaction]

Not much solidarity on here, CV19 be dammed. I doubt very much the league will finish as envisaged at present and if it does what are the chances of there being enough clubs for. a two division league next year

[geysir]

While there's some logic to that in general, it goes out the window when it comes to completely changing what was agreed at the start of the season regarding promotion/relegation.

All the current delay means is that we have to come to a different way of deciding who the 2 up 2 down are. There has been no reasonable argument as yet put forward as to why that should change. First Division clubs have outgoings and commitments just like Premier Division clubs.

#FirstDivisionLivesMatter

After their debate, a resounding 9-1 vote among premier clubs in favour of change to 1 up 1 down, is more than a reasonable statement of decision reached on the matter.

[nigel-harps1954]

At this stage, decision is made, and clubs should just get on with it. Going on national radio and threatening legal action does nothing to sort out much lacking public support for the league. Unprecedented times call for unprecedented measures, so just hop on board and get on with it.

[pineapple stu]

After their debate, a resounding 9-1 vote among premier clubs in favour of change to 1 up 1 down, is more than a reasonable statement of decision reached on the matter.
Yes - but I said that no reasonable argument has yet been put forward. Voting in your own self-interest doesn't constitute a reasonable argument.

[Bunny Kelly]

After their debate, a resounding 9-1 vote among premier clubs in favour of change to 1 up 1 down, is more than a reasonable statement of decision reached on the matter.


Im going to out on a limb here & speculate there was a resounding 10-0 vote among first div clubs to keep current play off system

[The Lilywhites]

https://m.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/fai-board-to-review-decision-on-loi-restart-after-complaint-from-premier-clubs-over-format-39331761.html

Formal complaint from Premier clubs


Following a meeting of the FAI board this morning, it was agreed to not ratify the LOI restart now but carry out a review of the process, with a decision due by the end of this week.

[pineapple stu]

That is actually outrageous.

Relegate the lot of them, I say.

[Finlay Harp]

It’s getting farcical at this stage. Decision had to be made one way or the other to get things moving. It’s been made so let’s just get on with it. Harps will most likely be battling it out at the bottom end of the table but we’re not complaining.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Not much solidarity on here, CV19 be dammed. I doubt very much the league will finish as envisaged at present and if it does what are the chances of there being enough clubs for. a two division league next year

How is supporting first division clubs any less of a show of solidarity than giving Premier division clubs an out. Premier clubs going down are not going to be in any worse a position going down than any other year because of the fund from the FAI

[RathfarnhamHoop]

For all the good Sligo normally do for the community its time them and Waterford were just ****ed out of the league. Two of them putting self interest ahead of the whole league. The Pats owner can **** off for just taking the **** too. This league is used to petty **** but a football club trying to use a global crisis to help themselves at the detriment of the majority of other clubs is a pathetic new low

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Here's this for a solution for the Premier division clubs that are unhappy, don't finish in the bottom two, and if you finish second bottom, just beat the poxy first division club in the playoff, it's really that simple.

If you're a Premier division club with "higher outlay" and all that ****e and you can't beat a first division club that have had every disadvantage you've had on the pitch because of covid and more then maybe just maybe the 18 extra games wouldn't have helped you anyway and you don't deserve to be in the division.
It's really that simple

[redarmyfaction]

The question here is, when Shamrock Rovers voted for the resumption, did they do so as a delegate or as a representative? If the legal position is that they were a delegate, then the vote is void and a relegated club could apply to have the season put aside via judicial review.

[The Lilywhites]

For all the good Sligo normally do for the community its time them and Waterford were just ****ed out of the league. Two of them putting self interest ahead of the whole league. The Pats owner can **** off for just taking the **** too. This league is used to petty **** but a football club trying to use a global crisis to help themselves at the detriment of the majority of other clubs is a pathetic new low

But of course Noel Byrne is the great fella for his self-serving actions for Shamrock Rovers and Shamrock Rovers only, abusing the position he was elected to to represent the view of the majority of Premier clubs. Yeah.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

The question here is, when Shamrock Rovers voted for the resumption, did they do so as a delegate or as a representative? If the legal position is that they were a delegate, then the vote is void and a relegated club could apply to have the season put aside via judicial review.

That's not the question because firstly there is no obligation of the members representing the Premier division clubs to represent the league as a whole. And secondly the idiot sligo treasurer conveniently didn't mention how other board members on NLEC voted. It's not a 5 man board it's 7.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

But of course Noel Byrne is the great fella for his self-serving actions for Shamrock Rovers and Shamrock Rovers only, abusing the position he was elected to to represent the view of the majority of Premier clubs. Yeah.

10 out of 19 clubs wanted this format and it passed it really is that simple. And of the 9 that didn't half of them just voted that way to shut Sligo, Waterford and Pats up.

I would also love to know how Rovers choosing to make a stance on something concerning relegation could in anyway be considered self serving. If you could give one good reason as to how it is that'd be fantastic.
And don't give me that "get the first division clubs onside ****e" cause everyone and their mother knows the FAI will make a decision regarding if Rovers 2 are in the league next year or not

[The Lilywhites]

And secondly the idiot sligo treasurer conveniently didn't mention how other board members on NLEC voted. It's not a 5 man board it's 7.

According to the Irish Times:


A widely held belief among clubs was that the two nominees from other sectors of the association - Dave Moran and Paul O’Brien - would go with the majority so as, in effect, to let the league decide for itself.

So Byrne's self-serving swung the vote for FD clubs.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

According to the Irish Times:



So Byrne's self-serving swung the vote for FD clubs.

First that's a belief, second, the majority of clubs wanted the proposal that passed so that's that then, thirdly you still haven't given a single shred of evidence as to how it could be considered a self serving vote

[pineapple stu]

And to add, there's still not a single valid argument in favour of changing promotion/relegation to suit the PD clubs at the expense of the FD.

The minutiae don't really matter when what's being sought is so ridiculous.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

I'm glad that the representatives of my club actually have a set on them and didn't just fall in line with the moany feckers who are actually being self serving like the rest of the sheep.

That's why we are, always have been and always will be Irelands number 1.
KOH

[The Lilywhites]

I'm glad that the representatives of my club actually have a set on them and didn't just fall in line with the moany feckers who are actually being self serving like the rest of the sheep.

That's why we are, always have been and always will be Irelands number 1.
KOH

You're glad that Byrne looked after Shamrock Rovers and Shamrock Rovers only, by protecting his club's B team's place in the FD.

[placid casual]

I just hope Harps can stay up as if they can it should mean one of the dog€hit clubs festering in the Premier division will be gone - I'm also assuming Cork stay up as well, by the way.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

You're glad that Byrne looked after Shamrock Rovers and Shamrock Rovers only, by protecting his club's B team's place in the FD.

Keep telling yourself that! You might someday manage to convince at least yourself that it's true

[Ezeikial]

For all the good Sligo normally do for the community its time them and Waterford were just ****ed out of the league. Two of them putting self interest ahead of the whole league. The Pats owner can **** off for just taking the **** too. This league is used to petty **** but a football club trying to use a global crisis to help themselves at the detriment of the majority of other clubs is a pathetic new low

Reducing the league to 7 teams is an interesting idea. It might even allow for the another 3 series of matches to be played

[Ezeikial]

But of course Noel Byrne is the great fella for his self-serving actions for Shamrock Rovers and Shamrock Rovers only, abusing the position he was elected to to represent the view of the majority of Premier clubs. Yeah.

I wonder will Noel Byrne / Shamrock Rovers be nominate as representatives of the PD again?

Me thinks not

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Reducing the league to 7 teams is an interesting idea. It might even allow for the another 3 series of matches to be played

I know you struggle with this but I very specifically said Sligo and Waterford as a whole and Pats owner as an individual

[The Lilywhites]

Keep telling yourself that! You might someday manage to convince at least yourself that it's true

At least the Rovers players will soon be back to full pay, having had a 25% pay cut imposed on them by the Rovers board, even when your club had the resources to pay them fully. That'll be nice.

[The Lilywhites]

I wonder will Noel Byrne / Shamrock Rovers be nominate as representatives of the PD again?

Me thinks not

They're looking for a way to get rid of him immediately, if possible.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Oh I hope to god fans are allowed in for when the bitters and Waterford come to play in Tallaght

"You'll do what we say you'll do what we sayyyy, we're Shamrock Rovers, you'll do what we say"

[RathfarnhamHoop]

And just so I'm gett this right these clubs couldn't afford to pay players and keep asking the FAI to increase the money they're giving clubs to help them with returning behind closed door but they can afford lawyers to threaten to go to court. How does that work?

[geysir]

Yes - but I said that no reasonable argument has yet been put forward. Voting in your own self-interest doesn't constitute a reasonable argument.
I am not privy to the discussions before the vote, but was it in Dundalk's self interest to vote for the 1 up 1 down?
Perhaps they voted for it with good reason after the decision had already been accepted to severely compromise the league schedule format.

[pineapple stu]

It was clearly in lots of clubs' self-interest to vote for it.

Did Dundalk have a good reason? Maybe. But as I said - "No reasonable argument has yet been put forward" I think that's still a valid comment. Because no reasonable argument has yet been put forward.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

It's actually amazing how the exact same Premier division fans who were having a go at Rovers a couple months ago for entering a team in the first division claiming it showed they didn't care about the first division clubs are now having a go at Rovers for voting on something that won't affect them in the slightest but helps those same clubs that apparently Rovers don't care about.

And I bet they'll still claim they aren't just annoyed because it was Rovers. The obsession is real.

Oh and on the "Rovers want competitive games for their first division team" Rovers have openly said they'd prefer a reserve league so competitive games are hardly a factor because that's not exactly likely to be any more competitive now is it.