Covid 19 - LOI Ramifications

[sbgawa]

i guess the contracts will be something like
€500 per week assuming crowds or €250 if no crowds , variations on this theme.
very few of the players beyond those able to secure a deal in the UK (who have their own problems) will have much choice but to be reasonable

[Yossarian]

Will players accept them either? A lot of uncertainty ahead.

I’d guess if a player is offered a contract they’ll take it. What’s is their alternative really. I suppose it depends on the terms and how different it is to what they were on this season.
I’m not sure about other clubs but it has been well flagged the number of players out of contract at Dundalk but for most of those players I don’t see a lot of serious options for them. Obviously there are one or two who would be snapped up elsewhere but I really only think Duffy and Gannon are in bracket.

[pineapple stu]

I’d guess if a player is offered a contract they’ll take it. What’s is their alternative really.
Well I guess it depends on a full-time or part-time contract.

Yeah, part-time at a couple of hundred a week, take it and take each week as it comes.

Full-time and you've an option of taking up a job elsewhere, you might have a choice to make.

Does the covid payment cover secondary employments?

[Yossarian]

Full-time and you've an option of taking up a job elsewhere, you might have a choice to make.


Do you mean full time players could take up a job in a different industry? If so I would be surprised if many of the full time players in the league would have that option. I would presume most of them have only ever played football as their full time job.

[pineapple stu]

Yeah, it mightn't be easy - and there's a big recession coming and so not a lot of jobs on offer necessarily - but some (McMillan would be an obvious example) could switch, and others could surely consider something, even if it's Dunnes or similar.

Not saying many will jump at it - but you'd have to be uncomfortable as a footballer going into the new season if things are the way they are still, and you'd have to look out for yourself. It's just another uncertainty is all.

[Yossarian]

There’s no doubt that some players may consider it if there is uncertainty in contracts being offered or potentially not being fulfilled. Plenty of the full time players would have mortgages and family so would have to have an income of some description.

[Martinho II]

Seen piece in sun today about that scenario. Think a lot of FT footballers thinking of working FT and having footie as a sideline.Theres no other way Im afraid. This recession will stick for a bit.

[Nesta99]

Could be an issue here if he was in a incubation period at the time of the Tallaght game.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2020/0924/1167255-zlatan-ibrahimovic-tests-positive-for-covid-19/

[DCSIL]

The relationship between parts of Donegal and Dublin doesn’t just cover Football now with Donegal set to be at Level 3

[nigel-harps1954]

On an all-island basis, Derry/Strabane district has supposedly the worst rate of infection in the country. The close ties on the border is killing Donegal. The lax attitude towards mask wearing in the north is reflected in the case numbers here.

A disaster from a Harps perspective too. Hoped to have a crowd for Cork on Sunday and now behind closed doors again. Nightmare.

[Martinho II]

On an all-island basis, Derry/Strabane district has supposedly the worst rate of infection in the country. The close ties on the border is killing Donegal. The lax attitude towards mask wearing in the north is reflected in the case numbers here.

A disaster from a Harps perspective too. Hoped to have a crowd for Cork on Sunday and now behind closed doors again. Nightmare.

Nigel heard on news about Lifford/Stranorlar infection rates being high. I am confused with the grouping altogether. I always associate Lifford with Strabane!

[nigel-harps1954]

Nigel heard on news about Lifford/Stranorlar infection rates being high. I am confused with the grouping altogether. I always associate Lifford with Strabane!

It's the Electoral district in Lifford/Stranorlar Marty.

[Nesta99]

Not good!! League could be abandoned yet. Bit earlier this as mid October was going to be high tide so maybe trying to head that off. If govt go with reccomendations to hit L5 again.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1004/1169272-coronarvirus-ireland/

[pineapple stu]

****ing hell. That's unexpected. What would that mean for Dundalk's Euro games? Neutral venue?

[The Lilywhites]

Where has that come out of?!

Seems to say a decision will finalised on Tuesday.

There were exemptions for elite sport at level 3. I assume that's not the case at level 5.

So LOI off and our Europa games up in the air. Not good at all this.

[pineapple stu]

Level 4 has exemptions for elite sport. Not level 5 though

[Nesta99]

****ing hell. That's unexpected. What would that mean for Dundalk's Euro games? Neutral venue?

Neutral venues or forfeit games, but at least the group qualification money is banked. I'm not that surprised that L5 is being considered again. I did think that it would be a Dublin epicentre and cases reaching 500 per day before another regional lockdown. I wouldnt have expected a nationwide lockdown days in to October. There must be serious issues with the modelling going in to winter months that need major work now to not be overwhelmed by November on. I dont know if the cabinet will go for full level 5, but theyd be foolish not to as its would just kick the can down the road and be much harder to contain obviously. Also unusual to see higher levels of infection in NI thant RoI for the last few days considering population differences.

If the league is halted as it stands, I'll be glad to see the back of the 2020 league campaign but there will be a whole load of issues to sort around European slots. Cork could be saved yet.

[Martinho II]

I imagine league will be decided on av pts per game as in league one and league two last season!

[Nesta99]

Where has that come out of?!

Seems to say a decision will finalised on Tuesday.

There were exemptions for elite sport at level 3. I assume that's not the case at level 5.


So LOI off and our Europa games up in the air. Not good at all this.

Level 5 is back to February like lockdown with schools et al shut. This time if it happens it will be for weeks rather than months though. Dr Holohan is back with a bang - possibly exactly the right time to have him back!!

[sbgawa]

Points per Game league table if stopped now (EFL formula)
Rovers ................... 2.71
Bohs .................... 2.14
Dundalk .................... 1.5
Waterford ...................1.43
Pats .................. 1.36
Sligo ...................1.27
Derry ................. 1.14
Shels ....................93
Harps ................. .79
Cork ................. .69

[sbgawa]

Interestingly if the Govt go for level 4 now and Pats beat DFC this weekend DFC would drop below them on a points per game basis and miss Europe if the league was abandoned next week if things got worse.
With the way DFC luck has been running i cant see that happening but if it does it will make the points dropped tonight against Harps expensive
Cork are doomed

[pineapple stu]

What did UEFA decide on European spots for Cup competitions that are abandoned?

[sbgawa]

I think they left it to each of the associations, but league position is the only real solution

[D24Saint]

I’d say if they go to the extreme measure of Level 5 then it’s league over. If the country is lockdown will Dundalk have to host their Europa games in a neutral venue.

[Yossarian]

If the country is lockdown will Dundalk have to host their Europa games in a neutral venue.

I’d imagine so. The same rules apply in the groups as for the qualifiers, if you can’t host a game for any reason you have to find a suitable alternative and if you can’t you forfeit the game.

[Nesta99]

There were a couple of strange ones around Europe in nominating sides for Europe, where say a 5th placed side got a nod over a higher league ranking side. Dont know what criteria was used but there werent the legal threats that you could have here.

Seemingly this potential lockdown will be for approximately 4 weeks to include midterm break for schools. There is a slim possibility of changes to the level 5 criteria so like lower leves for elite sport eg. An alternative consideration is to ramp up things at level 4 to avoid a full lockdown. NPHET are sticking to their recommendation so the suggested tweaks are from political circles. Capacity is looking tight in the HSE already so why the earlyish intervention, and we cant book any leave as of tomorrow.

[Scrufil]

What is stopping the league playing the last few games in Nov, Dec, Jan & Feb? Apart from contracts, which would have to be sorted anyway, why not just finish the league no matter if it is delayed or not? The next draw for Europe is yonks away.

[D24Saint]

What is stopping the league playing the last few games in Nov, Dec, Jan & Feb? Apart from contracts, which would have to be sorted anyway, why not just finish the league no matter if it is delayed or not? The next draw for Europe is yonks away.

It’s all down to cash. It’s safe to assume it’s not available for another extended period of lockdown.

[Kiki Balboa]

Would the league not be expunged? Only a third of it has been played right now.

[pineapple stu]

There's only four games left for most teams. I would presume the league is now agreed as an 18-game season, not a 36-game one.

Also, I'm not sure if UEFA will allow expunging of a league - how do you decide who qualifies for Europe then?

[D24Saint]

Would the league not be expunged? Only a third of it has been played right now.

There are arguments for voiding the season and for working out a system to have a finished league table. The season was shortened due to the pandemic and have some sort of a campaign if that shortened campaign cant be even completed is it a legitimate season to put in the record books. The other argument is particularly for the title. I think the league could be allowed to play its original amount of games and it wouldn't alter the destination of the title. It would be unfair on Rovers to deny them but any system to allocate European places could get messy. Its another conundrum for abbotstown. This all based on a complete Level 5 lockdown being enforced by Government of course.

[Real ale Madrid]

I'm not sure what the rush is to finish the last 4/5 games. Just pick it up where we left off.

[pineapple stu]

Well there's transfer windows and contract expiries coming up. Would it be fair to play the last four games in, say, Feb when a lot of players (particularly foreign players, I presume) have moved on? How would you sign replacement players for four games? Do you just stick in the 19s? How about contracts - would players be expected to be available out of season all of a sudden?

There's a lot of issues here. I don't think it's as simple as putting the league on ice for as long as it takes.

[DCWA]

Get an exemption to finish this season and scrap next.

[Scrufil]

Well the league demanded that Athlone Town's pay a fine and said it brought the league into disrepute when certain amatuer players decided to make themselves unavailable. This disruption would not be the league's fault therefore it is up to the clubs to sort out their own players. What's good for the goose...

[passinginterest]

There's going to be a strong push back against an immediate jump to level 5. I think we're more likely to see level 4, or 4+ with and exemption for elite sports still in there. NPHET will have to show strong evidence that elite sports and certain workplaces are contributing to the spread if there's to be a level 5 shutdown. They'll also have to show the modelling that's lead to the recommendation. Are they saying that on current trends ICUs will be overrun in a matter of weeks and level 5 is the only way to stop it? Or are they being ultra cautious? No doubt we're at a critical time all around in term of Covid, but even countries with much higher case levels, heading into stronger lockdowns, seem to be maintaining exemptions for elite level sports.

[Real ale Madrid]

Well there's transfer windows and contract expiries coming up. Would it be fair to play the last four games in, say, Feb when a lot of players (particularly foreign players, I presume) have moved on? How would you sign replacement players for four games? Do you just stick in the 19s? How about contracts - would players be expected to be available out of season all of a sudden?

There's a lot of issues here. I don't think it's as simple as putting the league on ice for as long as it takes.

Well if we will be in Level 5 all the way until Feb then yes - but if we are in L5 for a month as is proposed and then move to L4 then just complete the season then.

[Mr A]

There's only four games left for most teams. I would presume the league is now agreed as an 18-game season, not a 36-game one.

Also, I'm not sure if UEFA will allow expunging of a league - how do you decide who qualifies for Europe then?

Dublin City, Monaghan United, Sporting Fingal and one of the previous versions of Derry City.

[pineapple stu]

Well if we will be in Level 5 all the way until Feb then yes - but if we are in L5 for a month as is proposed and then move to L4 then just complete the season then.
Well I agree with that - especially if midweek games can be arranged - but there is a deadline, if not an immediate rush, in that contracts are agreed and players may be looking to move on.

[sidewayspasser]

Well if we will be in Level 5 all the way until Feb then yes - but if we are in L5 for a month as is proposed and then move to L4 then just complete the season then.

If we will be on Level 5 all the way until Feb then the country will have more serious problems than an incomplete LoI season.

[placid casual]

Shur, we'll all be dead on Christmas day anyway, when donny dump pushes the button, thinking he's ordering more KFC.

[Scrufil]

Some people like their chicken nucked. You should see me barbque!

[joey B]

Government rejecting the advice of the Nhpet to place the country on level 5 and put it on level 3 for everyone instead, league safe for now it seems......

[sbgawa]

Amazing to see the Politicos having a bit of balls and telling NPHET to feck off, wouldn't have surprised me to see ourselves and Israel in Lockdown together.

[CityRebel]

While level 3 is much better than level 5, I think it's fair to say we all know that the LOI is the main breeding ground for COVID and this season should be scrapped completely.

[ger121]

While level 3 is much better than level 5, I think it's fair to say we all know that the LOI is the main breeding ground for COVID and this season should be scrapped completely.

A lot of us probably think that Cork should have been quarantined years ago anyway. A year in the 1st Division is probably a fair compromise:D

[The Lilywhites]

Looks like Level 5 is going to happen soon, if not now, unless people actually cop on and abide by restrictions.

What if this day 3 weeks we go to Level 5, just before the last round of matches. Might be an idea to squeeze in those games now (although we already have a full schedule, so not sure that could happen even if they wanted).

Can see the FAI Cup having to be scrapped next month.

The good thing for us is Level 3 should see us get to the Molde game at the Aviva just about, and then our 2nd home Euro game isn't until the end of November - God knows where we'll be by then.

The other thing though is Filippo needs to stop messing about with team selection in the league in case there is a sudden shutdown!!

[Martinho II]

If you compare the loi to the GAA I think loi should be ok as there has being way too many occasions in the GAA especially up north where fans invaded the pitch! Morons!At least the GAA have the sense to stop things now.

[Nesta99]

There's going to be a strong push back against an immediate jump to level 5. I think we're more likely to see level 4, or 4+ with and exemption for elite sports still in there. NPHET will have to show strong evidence that elite sports and certain workplaces are contributing to the spread if there's to be a level 5 shutdown. They'll also have to show the modelling that's lead to the recommendation. Are they saying that on current trends ICUs will be overrun in a matter of weeks and level 5 is the only way to stop it? Or are they being ultra cautious? No doubt we're at a critical time all around in term of Covid, but even countries with much higher case levels, heading into stronger lockdowns, seem to be maintaining exemptions for elite level sports.

The modelling was presented to relevant people eg frontline staff management. Its stark stuff tbh. There is definitely an erring on the side of caution at the moment basically due to personal risk levels for front line staff (and id include teachers in that myself) if things start to really get out of control. There are currently in and around 40 high depednency beds nationwide, less in ICUs, but a reasonable amount of acute general capacity. If the modelling pans out and so far prep has been for worst case scenario that picture changes in weeks. Worst case is equally as likely as best case so what has happened is basically a gamble by Cabinet.

Understandable by Govt as poorly handled by NPHET going public but they probably suspected the kickback. Members of Cabinet have also been poor in undermining NPHET publically also. It will be tough to regain credibility and hence compliance from the public if the NPHET 'not thought through' angle is pushed.

One of the main considerations for NPHET is the kicking the can down the road issue in hope that things change for the better - at a time when public fatigue for any restriction is growing and so a real risk of losing a grip on things without a kick in the aras.

Personal opinion here but based on the figures and the general behaviour of sections of the public, but the situation will deteriorate and it is very possible that Level 5 restrictions have to happen anyway. The choice would be to do so now to mitigate against spread, as tough and irritating as that would be, or we end up doing it at the much more important period over the Christmas season - completely banjaxing a whack load more of businesses, and risk the most vulnerable due the normal family visits not being possible; Social isolation that will be felt more acutely over this time, the seasonal stresses on hospital capacity that happen every year will be exacerbated (sadly many people become 'ill' over Christmas and New Year to not be isolated and alone and get admitted to hospital), maybe there will be less drink related admissions (accidental injury, domestic violence, social distrubances) but I doubt it unless off licence sales are restricted....yeah right, if we want a national riot on our hands!! I know this isnt LoI stuff directly but whatever, it's a short-sighted sticking plaster unless there is a sneakier agenda to ramp things up over a period of time. Again an underatanadable stance but would lead to a longer and more damaging impact also.


Some people like their chicken nucked. You should see me barbque!

Thanks for this as it made me laugh and a lighter mood was needed - once back in flipping 1702 or somthing like that my Dad felt a bit queasy after ordering chicken out (nothing to do with the couple of beers), ever since he will only touch chicken if it is cremated but nuked is a far better description!!


Amazing to see the Politicos having a bit of balls and telling NPHET to feck off, wouldn't have surprised me to see ourselves and Israel in Lockdown together.

As per above, I think the politicians have done the opposite of showing balls, and have actually bottled making the difficult but most prudent course of action. We should be able to creat a covid free island bubble, if the will is there to achieve it. Not possible with sketchy contract tracing, not improving border control, including the impact of the Brits on NI, and an increasingly complacent public - partiularly among the younger demographics.


If you compare the loi to the GAA I think loi should be ok as there has being way too many occasions in the GAA especially up north where fans invaded the pitch! Morons!At least the GAA have the sense to stop things now.

Fooking infuriating to see. GAA should have known better considering they had to erect perspex barriers at Hill 16 years ago to stop the pitch invasion issue. Funnily enough it was after Armagh fans ignored the appeals and broke through stewards trying to prevent them entering the pitch. Seeing Blackrock hurlers in Cork walking down the street with all those fans was a disgrace. The reaction for the GAA has been top notch after though, by cancelling ALL activity after this behaviour, including potentially not holding All Ireland competitions as a result. Thats a serious slap on the wrist for the clubs that ignored advice and they wont be looked favourably on by other who did what they were supposed to do and will miss out. There are plenty of stories of positive Covid tests being hidden - but with proper Govt tracing these people and contacts should have been isolating so the clubs knew they could hide anything that could mean forfeiting games.


Apologies of any of this simply sounds like a misery rant, I promise none of it has to do with wanting Rovers title derailed! After all, that would also see Cork not being relegated and that would be fun simply to get a Cork colleague for back the Nov-Feb slagging in 2017 - bitter an twisted in my old age, as its not so nice to want anyone relegated but that was the longest close season ever and must be avenged!

[passinginterest]

The modelling was presented to relevant people eg frontline staff management. Its stark stuff tbh. There is definitely an erring on the side of caution at the moment basically due to personal risk levels for front line staff (and id include teachers in that myself) if things start to really get out of control. There are currently in and around 40 high depednency beds nationwide, less in ICUs, but a reasonable amount of acute general capacity. If the modelling pans out and so far prep has been for worst case scenario that picture changes in weeks. Worst case is equally as likely as best case so what has happened is basically a gamble by Cabinet.

Understandable by Govt as poorly handled by NPHET going public but they probably suspected the kickback. Members of Cabinet have also been poor in undermining NPHET publically also. It will be tough to regain credibility and hence compliance from the public if the NPHET 'not thought through' angle is pushed.

One of the main considerations for NPHET is the kicking the can down the road issue in hope that things change for the better - at a time when public fatigue for any restriction is growing and so a real risk of losing a grip on things without a kick in the aras.

Personal opinion here but based on the figures and the general behaviour of sections of the public, but the situation will deteriorate and it is very possible that Level 5 restrictions have to happen anyway. The choice would be to do so now to mitigate against spread, as tough and irritating as that would be, or we end up doing it at the much more important period over the Christmas season - completely banjaxing a whack load more of businesses, and risk the most vulnerable due the normal family visits not being possible; Social isolation that will be felt more acutely over this time, the seasonal stresses on hospital capacity that happen every year will be exacerbated (sadly many people become 'ill' over Christmas and New Year to not be isolated and alone and get admitted to hospital), maybe there will be less drink related admissions (accidental injury, domestic violence, social distrubances) but I doubt it unless off licence sales are restricted....yeah right, if we want a national riot on our hands!! I know this isnt LoI stuff directly but whatever, it's a short-sighted sticking plaster unless there is a sneakier agenda to ramp things up over a period of time. Again an underatanadable stance but would lead to a longer and more damaging impact also.



Thanks for this as it made me laugh and a lighter mood was needed - once back in flipping 1702 or somthing like that my Dad felt a bit queasy after ordering chicken out (nothing to do with the couple of beers), ever since he will only touch chicken if it is cremated but nuked is a far better description!!



As per above, I think the politicians have done the opposite of showing balls, and have actually bottled making the difficult but most prudent course of action. We should be able to creat a covid free island bubble, if the will is there to achieve it. Not possible with sketchy contract tracing, not improving border control, including the impact of the Brits on NI, and an increasingly complacent public - partiularly among the younger demographics.



Fooking infuriating to see. GAA should have known better considering they had to erect perspex barriers at Hill 16 years ago to stop the pitch invasion issue. Funnily enough it was after Armagh fans ignored the appeals and broke through stewards trying to prevent them entering the pitch. Seeing Blackrock hurlers in Cork walking down the street with all those fans was a disgrace. The reaction for the GAA has been top notch after though, by cancelling ALL activity after this behaviour, including potentially not holding All Ireland competitions as a result. Thats a serious slap on the wrist for the clubs that ignored advice and they wont be looked favourably on by other who did what they were supposed to do and will miss out. There are plenty of stories of positive Covid tests being hidden - but with proper Govt tracing these people and contacts should have been isolating so the clubs knew they could hide anything that could mean forfeiting games.


Apologies of any of this simply sounds like a misery rant, I promise none of it has to do with wanting Rovers title derailed! After all, that would also see Cork not being relegated and that would be fun simply to get a Cork colleague for back the Nov-Feb slagging in 2017 - bitter an twisted in my old age, as its not so nice to want anyone relegated but that was the longest close season ever and must be avenged!

That's a good sum up. I read the NPHET letter and you can see the logic in their approach. They blindsided the government though, and that was never going to be well received. I'm always reluctant to call for a return to lockdown, because I'm very insulated, both our jobs are safe, I love working from home etc. I think it's a very different story for people in industries that are being shut down an more and more won't reopen. It's not just about the economy either, there's a long term impact on health if unemployment goes through the roof and then there's the impact on reduced funding to the Department of Health etc. It's a no win situation, lock down now, and there's the mental health and jobs impact, wait another few months and there's the immediate deaths and ICU overcrowding, don't lock down again and see large numbers seriously ill or die, but jobs are saved and the economy takes much less of a knock and there's the cold heartedness that goes with it.

There does seem to be evidence that the second wave is much less lethal, which probably gives some justification to delaying or avoiding altogether a move to level five, but if the hospitals are overrun then the impact on those on the front line will be massive. Sports seems such a secondary consideration in it all, there's so many obvious benefits to seeing organised sport continue, but then you see the ridiculous celebrations and gatherings and you understand more the need to shut them down. They might have to look at the definition of "elite" sports, having low level junior championships going ahead seemed way out of line with the rules.