Covid 19 - LOI Ramifications

[pineapple stu]

League to be extended a week; new fixture list out later today (https://www.thesun.ie/sport/6006505/league-of-ireland-season-extended-coronavirus-in-ireland/).

Seems a little bit unnecessary as only two games have been postponed so far I think?

[pineapple stu]

Over 1000 cases reported today, so the numbers are still getting worse, not better.

We only hit 1000 twice in the first wave, and one of those was when there was a backlog of results from Germany. (The caveat of course is that 1000 reported today is probably a better measure than 1000 reported in April)

We're in a race to finish the league before Level 5 it seems. And I don't really see why elite sport should get a free pass at that stage, but it does seem that change to the rules has already been flagged.

[D24Saint]

Over 1000 cases reported today, so the numbers are still getting worse, not better.

We only hit 1000 twice in the first wave, and one of those was when there was a backlog of results from Germany. (The caveat of course is that 1000 reported today is probably a better measure than 1000 reported in April)

We're in a race to finish the league before Level 5 it seems. And I don't really see why elite sport should get a free pass at that stage, but it does seem that change to the rules has already been flagged.

Level 5 can’t be far off now with those numbers. I think Christmas will be a total mess this year as the house party’s will just get worse not better.

[Martinho II]

With 1000 here in the south and in the north the time has come for cross border cooperation between Stormont and Leinster House to do a coordinated response to solve this once and for all. Maybe going up to level 4 instead of level 5 might be achievable?

[Nesta99]

Level 5 can’t be far off now with those numbers. I think Christmas will be a total mess this year as the house party’s will just get worse not better.

Lockdown soon or longer and more extensive and damaging lockdown over Christmas and New Year- the choice is still there! Add a week to midterm break during a shorter sharper lockdown to ease things also. Tick Tock!!

[Mr A]

League to be extended a week; new fixture list out later today (https://www.thesun.ie/sport/6006505/league-of-ireland-season-extended-coronavirus-in-ireland/).

Seems a little bit unnecessary as only two games have been postponed so far I think?

Don't think Pats would have been clear in time to play us.. and with Dundalk having such a packed schedule it all gets very messy very quickly.

I would have no great confidence we'll be able to finish the season as a league in a satisfactory way- it seems inevitable more clubs will be hit with cases. Harps and Derry vulnerable given case rates in the Northwest but the numbers are bad everywhere and it's the age profile of players that are seeing the worst rates. It's an absolute balls with no good answers. If we keep extending the season who is going to pay? Clubs have feck all income.

As for next season.. hard to see how it'll work. Keeping the underage leagues going nearly more important so players don't lose a year's development. Hopefully the pandemic peters out and we can start getting back to normal, so would be in no rush to get the league going- we have a long time before we need to have qualifiers for Europe in 2022 after all.

[Nesta99]

Im actually not as worried about next season and feel crowds will return on a graduated basis, depending on when the season it starts and finishes. An April/May start with either a truncated season, play in to December, or start as usual but with no crowds initially. It wont make budget projections too easy. It is this particular covid hump (to state it mildly) that is scary. Neck on the line again but come next late spring I think we will have adapted sufficiantly at minimum, maybe even have vaccine/effective treatment protocols. Hard for the league to make decisions based on gut feeling or in hope.

Figuring out why some are asymtomatic and some are on deaths door with the same virus, or if reinfected can asymptomatic people end up in trouble, will be fascinating stuff, could be key to figuring this all out but raises all sorts of ethical dilemmas...do you carve up a population based on resistance and let some get on with things and restrict others, dystopian stuff.

[Martinho II]

See that the NI assembly have allowed 600 fans to attend the NI game tonight in Windsor Park which is a brave move on their part but the correct move unlike the GAA up there!

[Nesta99]

Good job Windsor isnt in Derry/Strabane - as daft as that sounds covid or not! Ukraine had 20k back at their international game v Germany. Seeing the impact of these type examples will no doubt dictate things elsewhere.

[sbgawa]

If dundalk take points off bohs next Friday rovers could win the league with a win against Derry with practically no one in the stadium to even congratulate them.
It has the makings of one of the best worst nights for fans.
Let's say harps win a playoff and stay up , a huge achievement AGAIN and no one to acknowledge it.
I'm 100% in favour of our league goin gv ahead like other leagues but it doesn't make it any less hard.

With the exception of shels I'd feel t he same about any group of fans

[littlebray]

Hard for the league to make decisions based on gut feeling or in hope.

Don't see why, they accepted Club plans based on the same for years and years.

[Nesta99]

Interesting that GAA club championships must cease under enhanced L3. You reap what you sow I suppose though maybe there are not too many left to be completed. I doubt that L4 wont be extended to Louth considering how bad things are getting in the likes of Newry. Back to pods in training possibly where facilities exist for that to be done. Mid October was the time that if things would be above 1000 cases a day as things were going and its come to pass. Christmas market in Galway has been cancelled already. Lets hope that this will get people back to putting the shoulder to the wheel and these restrictions will do a job. Meath Cork and Galway are not miles off additional restrictions either. Things have stabilised in Dublin albeit still high enough to mushroom. It's possible that if there are enough clusters among sporing organisations that even elite sport could be suspended. NI are down to damn all ICU beds. Here we are keeping the head above water but limited capacity for much more maybe 30-40 ICU beds but non covid cases are being moved to HDUs with additional staff to help there.

[Nesta99]

Don't see why, they accepted Club plans based on the same for years and years.

Well yeah, clubs over guestimated budgets on best case scenarios and were at time ridiculous. This is different with no indication of crowds returning, sponsorship is likely to be unreliable as business suffer in general. Unless a club has a cash reserve to weather the storm how can they offer contracts to players in December say, when there is actually no income rather than the robbing peter to pay paul method of keeping the show on the road. Government support via SI will be essential and some clubs will have to consider an amatuer playing staff. This is gonna create a much bigger divide between the haves and have nots than a club playinf CL group stages. Membership schemes will be crucial so Sligo, Cork, Rovers, Bohs, Dundalk (in its infancy) will at least have something to work on.

[redobit]

Well yeah, clubs over guestimated budgets on best case scenarios and were at time ridiculous. This is different with no indication of crowds returning, sponsorship is likely to be unreliable as business suffer in general. Unless a club has a cash reserve to weather the storm how can they offer contracts to players in December say, when there is actually no income rather than the robbing peter to pay paul method of keeping the show on the road. Government support via SI will be essential and some clubs will have to consider an amatuer playing staff. This is gonna create a much bigger divide between the haves and have nots than a club playinf CL group stages. Membership schemes will be crucial so Sligo, Cork, Rovers, Bohs, Dundalk (in its infancy) will at least have something to work on.

Big concern I see coming is selling season tickets for Xmas. You'd like to think season ticket holders are pretty hardcore folk but its hard for anybody to justify spending money without much reassurance. We have over 800 season tickets across the board, with vast majority bought before Xmas, but can you expect people to buy them for Xmas with so many unknowns. Can clubs even sell season tickets where there is a chance of a shortened season or matches behind closed doors or reduced numbers.

[sbgawa]

This is a problem alright that is speeding towards us.
Rovers had barely anyone who looked for a refund instead of the watchloi pass and a shop voucher but its one thing to not look for money back from your club who you know need it and another thing entirely to shell out money knowing you are probably throwing it away.
I genuinely think a biggish % will do it anyway but economics for some people who may be out of work etc will hurt here as well.

[Yossarian]

I think the majority of Dundalk fans are the same, I do t know of anyone that looked for a refund on their season ticket. But as you say, trying to get people to part with money when there’s no guarantee of anything for it will be hard when there are a lot of people out of work or on reduced incomes. For some people the luxury of renewing a season ticket just won’t be an option.
I’d like to think that anyone who can afford it will renew but with next season being uncertain and then the added drama for ourselves of the off field circus, will have an influence.

[Nesta99]

I would be of a similar opinion as above in that Id have considered most fans would suck up the loss of a refund if it kept their club alive. It was quite divisive one here, and certainly I was projecting my own thinking on it. Maybe giving people the choice of taking a refund or not was an issue and when it came to the bit the refunds werent generally sought. I think season tickets could be sold with an agreement to honour the number of games it is valid for whenever crowds return - but that is again kicking the problam of finances down the road if crowds are not allowed to return in numbers or a season is shortened. If clubs were streaming their own games for their own fanances and we know its very doable then WatchLoI could be in a bit of trouble and sharing the wealth stops. A lot of this will be resolved as it always has been in LoI, through the goodwill and determination of fans. How do you get fans to help financially when there are the Peak6 and Denis O'Briens of the world involved in clubs!?

If it were possible to stream board meetings Dundalk could make a killing........

[sbgawa]

At least we get tonfinish the league and maybe start again in mid feb with crowds of 500.....or alternativly by mid feb we are back here again.

[redobit]

At least we get to finish the league and maybe start again in mid feb with crowds of 500.....or alternativly by mid feb we are back here again.

Ya, who knows. How much is going to change between now and mid February, hope Im wrong but not a lot Id suspect. If it is games with 200 or 500 fans BCD, are fans going to pay for season tickets so they can go into a lottery or get every odd home game! If its going to be a shortened season (same as this) then it might be worth pushing the start back till June/ July to give more of a chance of a a vaccine and bigger crowds during summer! FAI need to make the decisions soon though.

[sbgawa]

Id rather go for a 36 game season and have the second half with bigger crowds if that works out.
Id definitly buy a season ticket if it meant getting into every second or third match , maybe with a watchloi pass thrown in....

[Nesta99]

Summer start and a truncated season definitely has the better chance of not being disrupted and maybe with crowds back also. Nothings for sure though and the risk is the smaller window to get a season in if any restrictions are needed. A spring start would almost definitely be with restricted attendances at best. June/July start wont suit everyone so April could be a runner though initially at least, would be restricted. The rescheduled Euro 2020 may influence the April ko also though i'd be quite happy ignoring the Dublin fixtures now that Ireland wont feature. There will be damn all close season for winter leagues so the early rounds of Europe could get moved forward to KO as early as possible!? UEFA/FAI et al just need to decide asap and stick to it.

[sbgawa]

I think starting Feb makes sense, lets say we get 8 or 9 rounds done by April and go into another lockdown we could still come back and play maybe 27 games.
The risk of starting late is you miss the opportunity to get some games in and end up with another really short season.

[White Horse]

Clubs have generally been successful in managing COVID in their squads and I am confident we could get through a full season in 2021. I don't want another mini league like 2020.

However, the issue is money. Without crowds and season ticket income, how will clubs survive? Some clubs have non matchday income to burn through, but most clubs haven't a farthing.

[Nesta99]

Clubs have generally been successful in managing COVID in their squads and I am confident we could get through a full season in 2021. I don't want another mini league like 2020.

However, the issue is money. Without crowds and season ticket income, how will clubs survive? Some clubs have non matchday income to burn through, but most clubs haven't a farthing.

I was thinking that myself and why maybe an April start has some balance. Most clubs (maybe all) wont want to commit to player contracts not knowing what the lie of the land will be and thats understandable. I dont think it should be a case that a season is dropped, if clubs want to suspend participation they should be allowed, without any threat of membership of the league. Clubs that want to participate and assuming there are enough clubs willing(?) then let it happen with as many '*' as is necessary. Tinker with formats, split league type stuff, play-offs - sure if Dundalk are an American franchise club the best of 7 isnt totally alien!! Have a couple of plans/options that can be utilised at relatively short notice including amatuer status for clubs temporarily. As it is we'd probably have to be ready for points to be expunged when financial issues kick in so however its done it needs to be proactive rather than reactive. Not much of a solution that doesnt involve (govt) financial support...

Im quite surprised at this! Has opinion turned on GAA after the behaviour of some clubs and fans around the country (or did they just poll people from soccer mad towns in rubbish GAA counties - Louth and Sligo of course)? Or is it advance warning that sport isnt as (self)important as GAA circles seem to believe ... "represented the country" :rolleyes::rolleyes: ffs.
https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2020/1019/1172606-rte-gaa-championship-poll/

[redobit]

Clubs have generally been successful in managing COVID in their squads and I am confident we could get through a full season in 2021. I don't want another mini league like 2020.

However, the issue is money. Without crowds and season ticket income, how will clubs survive? Some clubs have non matchday income to burn through, but most clubs haven't a farthing.

Exactly and we are soon going to be having the exact same conservation as we did back in March about funding. Some clubs simply cant afford to run a club without gate money and fundraising from events in the community. Clubs won't (and cant be expected) to start a season without reassurances on finishing the season. People seen Sligo Rovers as not wanting to play football back in March, that wasn't the case ... we were simply sayin that there is no money to start. Whatever other clubs think/ want, it would be reckless to start without reassurances, you could end up running the club out of existence. Mad to be talking about this and this season not even finished.

[Nesta99]

I dont think its mad at all to be talking about possible contingencies for next season. The latter end of this season could be the best opportunity to test well testing systems in place for players and officials etc. Finances will be a lot more in the face come then end of November and influence choices for next season. I doubt there will be any consensus on the 2021 season and I'm not taking it as read that Dundalk will be first to the line to start either. Some sort of league will have to be played unless UEFA change their stance. The only thing near a possible compromise for all clubs is to lets those play that want to play and hae a temporary format to suit. I probably sound off the wall suggesting the like but it could come to it - there are clubs that will have to go in to a hibernation in hope of preserving things, not just for reassurances on finishing a season but the return of crowd revenue (sponsorship budgets could have gaping holes in weeks) - that wont happen before a decision has to be made one way or another. Maybe the Dept of Sport will pull anoher rabbit out of a hat but its getting increasingly difficult to justify even 10 of millions to sports NGBs. Its one of the reasons I posted the link to the RTE survey above 'cause if thats public opinion of where sports in general rather than specific mistrust of GAA then there will be token funding set. Maybe if crowds are back in other nations there might be wriggle room with UEFA but will be in the form of loans or advance payments and the FAI have tapped that well to the extreme.

[Mr A]

2 more cases at Rovers: https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/shamrock-rovers-hit-two-more-22877122?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

[2 Year Contract]

2 more cases at Rovers: https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/shamrock-rovers-hit-two-more-22877122?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

End the league now and abandon the cup. 4th European place should go to league placings after PPG ��

[Mr A]

That's insane. Clearly the cup should be awarded to Rovers' next opponents in it.

[sbgawa]

They will be back in time fornthe derry match so all good........for now ;).

Why dont we make the match in finn park a double header 3 points and a place in the cup semi for the winner ....
Bit like we got the presidents cup when we beat DFC in oriel last time out.

[mcgonigle]

Could be a clean sweep for Rovers this year. Surely nobody will catch them in the Covid league table?

Seriously though, it does raise questions about how Rovers are managing things, got a bit slack since beating Dundalk?

[White Horse]

Could be a clean sweep for Rovers this year. Surely nobody will catch them in the Covid league table?

Seriously though, it does raise questions about how Rovers are managing things, got a bit slack since beating Dundalk?

They know they are the winners of the mini-league and could well be celebrating and getting complacent. It not like they have major European football to prepare for.

[sbgawa]

We do, next seasons champions path ;)

[placid casual]

The 2 players are among the 6 who were in close contact with greener, so it seems they finally tested positive after original negative results.
As for questioning Rovers handling of the issue, perhaps people should open their curtains and notice what's going on in the world around them.

[mcgonigle]

The 2 players are among the 6 who were in close contact with greener, so it seems they finally tested positive after original negative results.
As for questioning Rovers handling of the issue, perhaps people should open their curtains and notice what's going on in the world around them.

Absolutely sure just look at all those professional GAA teams having issues.

I'm sure it's just bad luck. Might be an idea for Rovers to contact some of the amateur teams in the league and get some advice on how they have avoided an outbreak.

[sbgawa]

Just trying to keep the league going for a couple of weeks and enjoy it for a bit longer :)

[placid casual]

This belter, from the dalk forum.
The signature at the bottom is the best bit. 😁


"As long as the FAI board members and Rovers current Chairman Roche are friends nothing will happen to stop them winning. This has been what the FAI have wanted for long and many a day, they need a club in Dublin to show off at UEFA level. Big silent investor (who is calling the shots at board level in the background), fans owning a big share, academy (which the FAI have pumped at least €500+ into true lobbying at government level and direct grants), ground which JD did his best to get built (Roche and his FF mates in SDCC were trying to get JD to run for election) for the FAI Womens and U21 teams...Rovers as tenants kept his LOI mate happy. Then a Rovers B team.........then the same Mr. Roche went against Premier League clubs and voted with the first division agianst the allience.

Recently postponements which Shane Long questioned publically.......party rumours being kept very quiet.......and to top it all off now the FAI are thinking of changing the Covid rules after Rovers had a break.......
https://www.thesun.ie/sport/football/60 ... harebarweb

You couldnt make it up."

[pineapple stu]

Page not found...?

[mcgonigle]

This belter, from the dalk forum.
The signature at the bottom is the best bit. ��


"As long as the FAI board members and Rovers current Chairman Roche are friends nothing will happen to stop them winning. This has been what the FAI have wanted for long and many a day, they need a club in Dublin to show off at UEFA level. Big silent investor (who is calling the shots at board level in the background), fans owning a big share, academy (which the FAI have pumped at least €500+ into true lobbying at government level and direct grants), ground which JD did his best to get built (Roche and his FF mates in SDCC were trying to get JD to run for election) for the FAI Womens and U21 teams...Rovers as tenants kept his LOI mate happy. Then a Rovers B team.........then the same Mr. Roche went against Premier League clubs and voted with the first division agianst the allience.

Recently postponements which Shane Long questioned publically.......party rumours being kept very quiet.......and to top it all off now the FAI are thinking of changing the Covid rules after Rovers had a break.......
https://www.thesun.ie/sport/football/60 ... harebarweb

You couldnt make it up."

Good to see your spending last hours before lockdown productively....

What's the saying? Rent free in your head?

[sbgawa]

Jaysus yer man Pepsi needs to get himself a Tinfoil hat :) thats proper there was a man on the grassy Knoll stuff :) Whatever abut DFC living rent free in PC;s head that poor lad needs to get a few marbles added to his :)

The FAI need to get hard rules in place that no one can argue with rather than the current case by case basis.
Adopting the UEFA 12 fit players rule with 1 keeper might appear harsh but the league will have to live this way for probably another year so we need to have a rule that keeps the league moving.
Maybe give teams 1 Timeout per season where 1 match can be postponed to mitigate a bit ........

[Nesta99]

What circumstances have to occur for a game to be forfieted?

[sbgawa]

Good Question.
I guess if you cant field a team you forfeit but again maybe one time out allowed per team.
Using 19's should eliminate that option............appreciate its harsh.......ideas welcome

[Nesta99]

Good Question.
I guess if you cant field a team you forfeit but again maybe one time out allowed per team.
Using 19's should eliminate that option............appreciate its harsh.......ideas welcome

Disrespectful and would undermine the league....

[sbgawa]

maybe......... but is it better then a forfeit?......we are a long way from ideal territory here

[sbgawa]

I think the only way to get the league going again next year is for the FAI to set out the rules any supports available and say whoever wants to play....play, if not take a year off
We will be back to listening to Sligo saying they cant afford to play etc etc otherwise for months.
Player contracts will have to be conditional contracts , Player X gets a contract which is X euro per week if no crowds and x + y if there are crowds
The players will have to accept that basis the same as people in businesses in the community that are screwed are accepting pay cuts
I don't say that lightly but what other choice is there? Play an 18 game season off over 12 weeks to keep player costs down?? i believe most players would rather play over a longer season for the same money as when part time most have jobs and again most would want to stay fit and play anyway...very few of them are playing football only for money

[Nesta99]

Well if we get Mr Lucid on board to come up with a format clubs wont need to have finances in advance of any decision!

[sbgawa]

I'd completely forgotten about him, he is the real life equivalent of the 3d stadium plans
Long on designs low on finance

[passinginterest]

https://www.rte.ie/sport/other-sport/2020/1102/1175441-gaa-to-receive-almost-31m-in-funding-this-year/

€31 million for GAA, €18 for rugby and €13 for the FAI. Will hopefully help clubs going into next season. Hard to understand the additional amount for the GAA to run the championships, especially as I'd have thought the GAA had probably the deepest cash reserves.

[John83]

The only way that makes any sense to me is that the GAA has successfully argued that the headcount at its inter-county level is ~3x that of the LoI. There's what, 20 league clubs, with squads of ~20 each: 400 players. GAA has ~32 counties in football, maybe half that at hurling. Squads of 30 each would make for ~1500 players. So ~3:1, and that means it's all for elite stuff and not a sausage for grass roots.

Or maybe I'm over-thinking this, and GAA has political sway, and Delaney's antics have left the FAI politically as well as financially bankrupt.

[Nesta99]

It is probably a difficult one for government to give a handout to the FAI after also giving a bailout recently after the JD messing. There's no political capital left if the FAI ever really did have any. The figures for GAA in terms of running the All Ireland series dont add up though. Maybe I dont know enough about GAA but as an amateur sport the main cost would be the hosting of a large crowd, with no crowds how does it cost €15mil to run a number of 32 team knockout competitions.

Add to this the recent comments for Louth's captain in voicing concern over no covid testing taking place for squads. A very valid point he makes is zero testing could imply zero cases and that is just not going to happen. Reading between the line he is implying that this is probably the intention. He also observed that GAA players as 'amateurs' cant be in a bubble like pro sports and have to return to work and families after traveling and playing throughout the country.

"There hasn't been any testing at all, which I can't get my head around.
Surely before the start of the National League campaign every inter-county squad should have been tested. Simple as.


https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2020/1019/1172479-louth-captain-makes-startling-revelation-on-testing/

It is a couple of weeks old this article so it would be genuinely fascinating to test all players involved to see if there is any trends flagging. That's irrespective of this being an example of a serious player welfare issue, that has been a hot topic for GAA even pre covid risks. They cant call that €15m includes an extensive testing programme of 25-30 player squads, men and women's games for 62 or 63 squads across football and hurling - that would eat up a good chunk of the 15m. It will be interesting to see if there are squad changes, players 'injured' or whether the GAA will front up about cases. It does seem that there are different testing criteria for different sports, maybe it is down to the governing bodies, if so the FAI have shown considerably more professionalism around all this and with less resources!