Covid 19 - LOI Ramifications

[passinginterest]

Two Galway players positive and game off. https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2020/1006/1169806-two-galway-united-players-test-positive-for-covid-19/

It really is a critical stage for everything at the moment. With levels as high as they are at the moment, has to be a possibility of more games falling to the same fate.

[WeAreRovers]

Nphet letter explicitly allows for elite sport to continue even under Level 5 - "No matches or sports events are permitted - exemption for professional/elite/senior inter-county/horse racing behind closed doors."

So the Gah Championships, Dundalk's Europa League games and Rovers march to an 18th League title will all go ahead.

[sbgawa]

I disagree with you Nesta (with all due respect as i appreciate you work in Health) about the Politicians taking the easy way out by postponing Lockdown, they are putting themselves in danger of being shown to be wrong if things get very bad. Up to now they have been cowardly hiding behind NPHET and treating every proclamation from them as being infallible and must be obeyed .....perfect cover as if anything went wrong they were only following orders.
The problem with NPHET is they are a bunch of Medical people who will get paid while the rest of us exist on €350 pw during Lockdown, meanwhile they have "done their job".
There is Zero hope of an all Island approach , the Unionists would happily settle for the risk of dying rather than cut themselves off from the UK. Brexit !!

Whats my Solution?
We have to manage the risk , the same as we don't ban cars and tractors because 4/500 people die on the roads every year.
Without the HSE/NPHET "managed" debacle in the nursing homes the death toll would be 5 or 600 people

How do we manage the risk, Lockdown for at risk people only way way way far from ideal but is it better than everyone ,Lockdown for over 65 or with underlying condition (that would include me :) ).

Covid is becoming politicized with opposition who were all against Lockdown now screaming about the Govt ignoring NPHET...

[Nesta99]

Hmmm, I dont think we would gain to much of a consensus on this sbgawa. It would be wrong of me to say that working in healthcare doesnt influence my opinion but my opinion is based on a bigger picture too, not just the dread of endless shifts, being overwhelmed and unable to get a job done, witnessing the distress without the means to help, or even the risk it all poses to my family with the high risk of being a carrier - I chose this career, not them, and for as much as you try to isolate in one house is damn hard. I think its unfair on NPHET to think that they call the shots with zero consideration of the implications as they are not at risk of losing their jobs and will be paid. The will certainly be at minimum managing staffing resources where infection rates and potential deaths (patients and staff) will occur based on their decisions, as has happened.

You are spot on about managing the risk, we'd have done pretty well if contract tracing had been better managed. I do get that there is an unprecedented learning curve. It should also be noted that many of those that have been infected havn't 'recovered' in a couple of weeks. There are lingering symptoms that there is little known about. But there is certainly an improvement in how cases are managed as learning on the go happened.

It needs to be remembered that it is the public that mostly dictates where this all goes, mothers, fathers, sons, daughters can keep themselves and family in work or damage their family with irresponsible behaviour. Thats without the whole death stuff. There is opportunistic politics going on which is a pain in the ass - the collective nature in managing all this is every bit as important as it was last March if not moreso. I cant take the argument about banning cars as they too cause deaths argurments etc! The same could argued endlessly about a whole lot of things, we dont ban alcohol because people drink and drive, or basically anything that people can misuse or abuse. This is obviously different, I dont need to list off all the whys, just the expotential nature of this is enough in comparison to your example. Its very much short term pain for long term gain, across the board and would protect the things of concern to you eg jobs. How many retailers would survive no Christmas trade as opposed to 3 weeks in October.

I do understand how NPHET has looked, an unelected body dictating to government - no different really than the central bank advising on fiscal policy or civil servants advising ministers. They can and have been ignored, I seriously hope they are wrong of course, but they havent been in predictions so far and their quick intervention saved lives and arguably the ability for the economy to open and recover. Just looking at UK rates, especially in NI, +500 cases per 100k in Derry, 300 in Newry (80 or so in Dundalk for comparison of a similar area but different jurisdiction/policies), those numbers nationwide here would overwhelm the health service and spook the economy - we are NPHET, time and an invisible line away from it!


edit - there is somthing that'd probably be in agreement sbgawa and thats how this could have been spun. Reading passinginterest's post saying how NPHET blinsided government. If the reprimand had been kept quiet it was possible to state that weighing up the risks to the economy et al if returning to lockdown, including the resourcing of covid response maybe, the govt took a more measured and broadened decision. Buuuutttt it was a close run decision and if people dont shape up it will happen. Restriction fatigue or just the generally reckless kind of behaviour could have been reduced if people were faced with the prospect of the local being closed or uni students being sent home. Instead, what we have now is the attitude that NPHET dont know what they are doing or dont care, that they are just covering themselves, power hungry after getting a taste of dictatorship, no regard for for others job security etc. Kinda the sort of stuff that Trump has been shouting about the WHO, CDC, Dr Faucci with his support base loving it. (Im not comparing you to any Trump supporter, just in case sbgagwa!!!).

[Yossarian]

Pats player tested positive for covid today, Pats/Dundalk game now postponed on Friday, things could very messy very quickly.....

It could get out of hand very quickly if there are more games postponed. Obviously we already have a big fixture backlog due to Europe but with the rush to get the league finished by the end of the month it will get messy for everyone.

[pineapple stu]

So an extra week off for Dundalk - that should mean their European players have had time to recover at least.

[sbgawa]

He's a Pats player they are all bound to test positive for something :)

[Kiki Balboa]

Just give Dundalk the points.......

[Nesta99]

Well if things continue to be postponed at least our PPG wont continue to slide, other clubs around us just need to be nice keep beatng each other.

I see the rowing back on criticism of NPHET has started and credibility trying to be repaired. I know I am probably unnecesarily bleating on about covid but a bit of a shocker of a peer reviewed report out this week that in random samples from clusters in the US, across all demographics has shown that 78 people from 100 hospitalised with covid-19, 10 weeks after being discharged, showed signs of cardiac 'injury'. Possibly as high as 30% of all cases internationally showing elevated markers in bloods that are usually more associated with heart attacks. So aside from acute cases, we could be looking at a generalised health crisis in a similar vane to obesity and TII Diabetes epidemic. For footballers and all sports people that test Covid-19+ cardiac screening may be prudent even if asymptomatic considering this new info.

[pineapple stu]

Question for you Nesta. The case rates are up to April levels - 500 a day. But deaths are way down on April levels - they were 40-50 a day, and now it's 1-2 a day. (Today at 5 being an exception). Any reason for that? Is it that the real case levels in April were actually way higher? Or did nursing homes skew things that dramatically? Or are medical treatments improving? Will we see death rates start to increase over the coming days?

I know there's other side-effects - lung damage, heart damage, fatigue, etc - but I suppose at a macro level (and this sounds awful), if people aren't dying, then the populace will be more complacent.

[Kiki Balboa]

Is it possible to play the game on Sunday instead of Friday (Pats/Dundalk). Hard to see how the game can be fixed anywhere on Dundalks schedule

[Yossarian]

What happens if Pats have another case next week? Does their scheduled game next week get called off aswell. I would have thought that if it’s one player and the rest of the squad get tested and are negative, that the game could then go ahead.

[The Lilywhites]

We can't fit the Pats game in anywhere until November, so our league season has to be extended now anyway.

Is the Ireland backroom team member who has COVID also connected to a LOI club?

[Nesta99]

Question for you Nesta. The case rates are up to April levels - 500 a day. But deaths are way down on April levels - they were 40-50 a day, and now it's 1-2 a day. (Today at 5 being an exception). Any reason for that? Is it that the real case levels in April were actually way higher? Or did nursing homes skew things that dramatically? Or are medical treatments improving? Will we see death rates start to increase over the coming days?

I know there's other side-effects - lung damage, heart damage, fatigue, etc - but I suppose at a macro level (and this sounds awful), if people aren't dying, then the populace will be more complacent.

Answer is a bit all of the above. The emergency licencing of Remdesivir definitely improved things and shortened the need for mechanical ventilation - that alone would have reduced mortality rates as the longer on a ventilator the more complicated things get (eg not blowing off Co2 causing respiratory acidosis on top of everything else). Basically therapeutics were being tried on the job and eventually things were narrowed down that helped the sickest. Some was basic stuff, done as standard years ago that returned in desperation eg having patients lie on their front as lungs are 'attached' to the back, so lying prone helped increase volumes. Earlier intervention has been significant. The demographic of those the were infected evolved away from the most vulnerable as cocooning et al kicked in. I cant speak for all hospitals but having growing capacity of ICU beds as things evolved meant a better ouctome too. Retrospective covid deaths were added to numbers about then particularly from residential care homes as pathology reports were caught up on. Death rates will definitely climb (imo) but with adjusted trends for demographic profile and that we may be able to intervene before the genie is out of the bottle with seriel testing, stopping visitors to hospitals and care homes etc. But as we have seen there are weaknesses in the chain, it only takes one person who thinks this is an all ott and the virus rampages through elderly folk in a home. Growing numbers of younger people infected are going to carry in to the home where eg parents are exposed who may not be as resilient. If we hit much higher that 500 cases a day nationwide the mortality rate will climb due to capacity issues especially in acute hospitals. Expotential growth at those levels is the reality that is feared by NPHET.

We have been pretty much on the ball in this country, some of the top virologists in the world are here, we have a major biopharma industry, and we provide about 65% of the worlds mechanical ventilators/anaesthetic machines, so that gives us clout when the chips are down. High ranking people in the WHO gives earlier access to international modelling - the circuitbreaker theory eg as yet untested in Europe but solid thinking. An importantly impartial tropical disease centre that identiified that this virus has not been manufacttured and RNA sequences show crossed to humans 12 months ago now.

That is far more info than needed but I dont want be the harbinger of doom completely, especially as I was playing this down last Jan and was very wrong. It is looking very promising for the Oxford vaccine being good and could be licenced by Christmas. EU has secured access in advance but will undoubtedly play in to Brexit talks irrespective of contracts signed and sealed. We have been assisting the Brits through their mess by supplying ventilators and PPE so quid pro quo and get some of the early batches but full roll out realistically is next spring at the earliest.

The last bit isnt awful at all, its pragmatic thinking and the reality too. Best alternative example is how we pat ourselves on the back for reducing road fatalities. But do we count the numbers that that survive accidents but with life changing injuries!? A trip to the Nationa Rehabilitation Hospital is a real eye opener and tbh in my experience had me rethink things more than even death tolls. Complacency is a natonal issue on flipping nearly everything....blood donations are at f*cking 2% of the population yet 1 in 4 will need transfusion at some point??. I am at risk of going off on a serious rant on this general issue but we tend to lack a social conscience as a people!!

To put a football spin on this non football post - LoI clubs could play a key role for their communities via access to supporters, something a little more than wash hands, cough etiquette, keep safe. Proactive stuff like keep your club alive by beating covid, offer ownership to the problem not generic stuff where people think its up to others to deal with. There is a whole bunch of things that could be done with some thinking outside the box!

[pineapple stu]

OK - so the takeaway of that really is this thing is still bloody nasty, but we are managing it better, even if obviously there isn't a cure/vaccine for it as yet? But if we open up fully, then it won't take long for hospitals to fill up, and then you've the issue of not being able to treat everyone, and that's when we'd really get into trouble?

As a football-related aside, just got a text there that Antonin Panenka is in intensive care with it.

[Nesta99]

Lol yup, in 3 or 4 lines you've said what took me 50 odd!

[Calcio Jack]

Just give Dundalk the points.......

In recent weeks Dundalk have shown their contempt for the league by fielding reserve teams , so league should pick a date before end of October and let them play their reserves .. what goes around comes around

[Kiki Balboa]

As a football-related aside, just got a text there that Antonin Panenka is in intensive care with it.

Club legend of Bohemians in Prague. A fantastic club, one of the best in Europe (outside of County Louth). Highly recommend getting to a game after covid.

[Nesta99]

In recent weeks Dundalk have shown their contempt for the league by fielding reserve teams , so league should pick a date before end of October and let them play their reserves .. what goes around comes around

I will bite!

But we dont have a reserve team! We have a very expensive squad who are all first teamers but Dundalk's player recruitment has been poor, well as Dundalk fans are regularly reminded of and what a waste of money it must be. Contempt for the league? in a season where a number of clubs are probably on their knees - show me a club that wouldnt have prioritised a €3-4mil payday game. If referring to the Harps game well you were talking about this prior to the KI game. What about player welfare, giving players game time, developing young players, assessing things for next season, seeing whether players are interested enough to earn a new contract when 16 are out of contract by early December. Its not the youth team thats being sent out to play!

[Scrufil]

That is far more info than needed but I dont want be the harbinger of doom completely, especially as I was playing this down last Jan and was very wrong. It is looking very promising for the Oxford vaccine being good and could be licenced by Christmas. EU has secured access in advance but will undoubtedly play in to Brexit talks irrespective of contracts signed and sealed. We have been assisting the Brits through their mess by supplying ventilators and PPE so quid pro quo and get some of the early batches but full roll out realistically is next spring at the earliest.


Nesta you have just made my greatest nightmare come true. You have stated exactly what I said to my neighbour 4 weeks ago, that the Brits would use a Covid-19 cure as a bargaining chip to screw Ireland over again. They never change their spots. If you think Covid-19 restrictions are bad just wait until we are hit with the new Brexit tax, under a health guise. I am too damn close to the edge hearing this news. In fact I am praying hard the Oxford cure fails. I would sooner die than take it at this rate.

And add to that there are sickos in the Dáil want to murder not just the unborn but those living in pain as well.
For the record I am living in chronic pain for the last 15 years and I would vote firmly against this murder notion that they are disguising as 'assisted suicide'.
Being an Athlone Town supporter my pain threshold is high and no joke intended.

[John83]

Scrufil, there were around 25 vaccines in stage 3 trials mentioned by the WHO in August (I think), so the Brits will not have anything like as much leverage as that. Besides, given the pharma manufacturing capacity here, we're hardly toothless on that front.

[Nesta99]

The Brits are in no position to push the issue out too far as they are really on the edge both on covid and brexit. I think they expected EU solidarity to fold long before now so are throwing the toys out of the pram. Dont blink and they'll quietly go and sit on the bold step! As John mentions, biopharma production capacity here could be a significant factor in negotiations too.

I shouldnt go near a subject like 'assisted suicide' as it's a very personal and emotive issue. Its a poor title to have been used as it evokes ummm different associations. If somthing like 'compassionate end of life support' had been used there would be less fear and anguish caused, generally among those who are not actually in the situation where such consideration is happening. DNRs, withdrawing various therapeutics, administering necessary pain relief for acute, severe pain, at end of life times, that will all hasten end of life situations, could all be classed as 'assisted suicide', even murder, if someone wants to class this or see it all in that way, but it happens to prevent unnecessary suffering for patients and indeed loved ones.

There will be balances and checks in any proposal, and 'assisted suicide' is not a forgone conclusion that will become a proocol, eg 2 or 3 consultant agreement that a person has a terminal illness and is entering an end of life phase. That pain and suffering is an absolute for this person. Psychiatry and Psychology specialists will be involved with patient and family. That the patient has a back out option. It's often presented as an argument against, that patients will choose this option to not be a burden to family. My experience and the evidence shows that loved ones are most likely to seek to overturn decisions like DNRs, 'assisted suicide', compassionate treatment, and so on when it comes to the moment. Its does step on peoples consciences which is good as its shows the greater need to preserve life and its not an easy decision.

Things happen every day in healthcare that would seem barbaric to those not trained in the how, what, why. I think that the medical profession can be rubbish at explaining things, try to use terms that minimise emotion but can actually do the opposite. The vast majority of healthcare people are seriously compassionate, if they come across as 'out of touch' with emotional issues it is more than likely their coping mechanism as its easier to be talk about a case than about a person! Doesnt mean that the humanity is vacant! I'm not really sure whether this is appropriate to post ona few levels but I do think when the opportunity to try and clarify things to worried people, like yerself Scrufil (and I'm not attemption to change your mind on anything, just presenting additional angles) that it is the thing to do and for a broader people than just the individual. I will though say no more on the difficult subject at hand here, but using PMs is grand by me.

[pineapple stu]

"We're in this for months and years" - Prof Sam McConkey on Newstalk this morning (https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/coronavirus/ireland-lockdown-top-doctor-warns-dublin-could-stay-at-level-3-for-months-and-years-over-r-number/ar-BB19ODzA?li=BBr5KbJ&ocid=mailsignout).

The headline - "Top doctor warns Dublin could stay at Level 3 for 'months and years' over R number" - is slightly misleading as he doesn't explicitly say that; in fact, he says that "to be stabilised [...] at Level 3 for a long time like 6 months or a year or more is not a solution to this"

But he doesn't really give any real way out of it. That would have obvious impacts on lots of stuff, of which the LoI is a relative minor one, but it would most definitely be hugely impacted. It'd be impractical, even.

[Nesta99]

Its indicative of the 'panic button' mode growing but not helpful to sound like a situation is being over played - people and public just switch off and they are the key to the solution. Media have a responsibility to not sensationalise!

[sbgawa]

"We're in this for months and years" - Prof Sam McConkey on Newstalk this morning (https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/coronavirus/ireland-lockdown-top-doctor-warns-dublin-could-stay-at-level-3-for-months-and-years-over-r-number/ar-BB19ODzA?li=BBr5KbJ&ocid=mailsignout).

The headline - "Top doctor warns Dublin could stay at Level 3 for 'months and years' over R number" - is slightly misleading as he doesn't explicitly say that; in fact, he says that "to be stabilised [...] at Level 3 for a long time like 6 months or a year or more is not a solution to this"

But he doesn't really give any real way out of it. That would have obvious impacts on lots of stuff, of which the LoI is a relative minor one, but it would most definitely be hugely impacted. It'd be impractical, even.

McConkey always strikes me as a guy who is loving his media exposure and his position as head prophet of doom

[joey B]

Sam Mcconkey said in March we could have 4 million infections and 120000 deaths, as a rule I don't argue with the opinions of experts but are we to take his obvious always worst case scenario opinion seriously??

[nigel-harps1954]

Sam Mcconkey said in March we could have 4 million infections and 120000 deaths, as a rule I don't argue with the opinions of experts but are we to take his obvious always worst case scenario opinion seriously??

In fairness, if we didn't lockdown, we could have had that.

[passinginterest]

I think if people had continued to act as if we were still "living with covid" as the plan was intended, we'd never has seen a major rise in cases. There's two options now, people take the level 3 seriously, take some personal responsibility, limit interactions and the case numbers stabilise and reduce in the next three weeks, or we go to level 5 and everything shuts down again for 3 weeks. The danger is that either option becomes a repeating cycle until there's a widely used vaccine, herd immunity, a cure or the virus naturally weakens and hospitalisations are no longer common.

[The Lilywhites]

As WAR said above, level 5 now allows for an exemption for elite sport to continue.

So we could possibly plan for a 36 game season next year, but you'll probably have the likes of Sligo and Waterford etc crying again that they can't afford to. Sligo is the funny one as they raised 80k and then spent it on Junior!

So if we're still without regular crowds in 2021, which seems likely, where does the LOI go?!

[El-Pietro]

Honest question. What is the point of an LOI season without fans?

[sbgawa]

A year out of your career is a lot for a guy who is looking at a short cars at anyway.
Plus I'd rather watch my team on tv then not at all.
For most Liverpool and man u fans it doesn't make any difference once you add in the crowd noise for them.

[El-Pietro]

A year out of your career is a lot for a guy who is looking at a short cars at anyway.
Plus I'd rather watch my team on tv then not at all.
For most Liverpool and man u fans it doesn't make any difference once you add in the crowd noise for them.

I've just finished watching the Slovakia - Ireland game. The whole time all I could think about is how little interest I had in it. This was a massive game but it fel like a training game. Probably not helped by the lack of crowd noise in a stadium that bounced the echoes around quite well. I've found it difficult to focus on our games on tv, and the same for game sin other countries. Obviously the fact that we are doing so poorly has an impact on this.

I get that for the layers its a job,and losing a year of an otherwise short career is awful, but what really is the purpose of the LOI? It seems like the only reason we played this season out was to make sure the European teams were decided.

[sbgawa]

And someone got to win the league, also someone gets promoted, European places for next year.

I get where u are coming from but I'd rather watch rovers play on tv then not at all

[El-Pietro]

And someone got to win the league, also someone gets promoted, European places for next year.

I get where u are coming from but I'd rather watch rovers play on tv then not at all

Do they though? It comes back to the question, what is the point of football. Do we play it just to decide a winner, or is it meant as entertainment? If we're looking at another season of football without fans then we have to question the point. Realistically we won't be cancelling a season but theres logic there.

[Nesta99]

European teams, the title and promotion on merit for 1st Division teams. Legue prizemony isnt good but it is graded on league finish. UEFA require domestic leagues to be decided. I also would prefer to watch games, especially my team than nothing at all. There is some benefit to that in terms of mental health for what little or much that might differ for individuals. To respect the league in itself and not show contempt by not playing it is important!!

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

As WAR said above, level 5 now allows for an exemption for elite sport to continue.

So we could possibly plan for a 36 game season next year, but you'll probably have the likes of Sligo and Waterford etc crying again that they can't afford to. Sligo is the funny one as they raised 80k and then spent it on Junior!

So if we're still without regular crowds in 2021, which seems likely, where does the LOI go?!

The money was raised to try and keep us up and it looks like it’s been successful. If we have no gate receipts next year we’ll have no squad of any note as we rely a lot on them. Can’t see us getting Europe. One half season of having no crowds and gate receipts is somewhat bearable but I’m not really sure how the likes of us with no Europe or large investor are supposed to get a squad together for next season when we have no idea what crowds we will be able to have to base our budgets off.

[John83]

An extended period with no gate receipts should see nearly every club in the league reduced to fully amateur status and still facing financial ruin. Good thing the FAI have been squirrelling money away for a rainy day. :struggle:

[Charlie Darwin]

I shouldnt go near a subject like 'assisted suicide' as it's a very personal and emotive issue. Its a poor title to have been used as it evokes ummm different associations. If somthing like 'compassionate end of life support' had been used there would be less fear and anguish caused
But isn't that what Gino is doing by calling it the Dying with Dignity bill? It's other people putting labels on it.

[NeverFeltBetter]

You can put whatever label you want on it, certain people will always insist you're out to murder your granny.

[DCWA]

Honest question. What is the point of an LOI season without fans?

None. There is no point in football without it. Either allow us to pack stadiums as normal or cancel the league for a year.

[joey B]

Honest question. What is the point of an LOI season without fans?

None whatsoever, it doesn't add up and how can clubs plan and budget for next season with no certainty of what it's going to look like.....

[sbgawa]

What is the point of a league 1 or 2 in UK with no fans or a scotish championship?

[pineapple stu]

Don't know that either.

I guess there's a hope crowds will be back by Christmas. But that's looking less likely now.

[sbgawa]

I meant that retorically, I don't believe we should consider not playing our league.
Everyone on here is a loi fan, this league is more important to me then the premier league and not playing would play into the hands of those people who despise our league

[pineapple stu]

My answer's genuine though. I'm in the "What's the point?" camp. We're all fans of the league, but head over heart has to happen at times. A whole season without fans would be disastrous. It'd be financially ruinous. It'd have no real impact on barstoolers who (a) don't care and (b) will quickly see that one behind-closed-doors match is much like another.

No other industry is being forced to open while being told it can't let its customers in so far as I can see

[placid casual]

I think it depends on whether the league gets financial assistance from either the FAI or else from an outside source.
Would RTÉ fund a full season on watch LOI, and pay the clubs a stipend for the games? Would clubs ask their loyal fans to pay for a season ticket membership on the basis that they might get to see some "loive" games somewhere down the road in the season, covid permitting of course?
If there is no season next year it would be difficult to see the season starting up ever again, in my view.

[pineapple stu]

If there is no season next year it would be difficult to see the season starting up ever again, in my view.
Do you mean that if next season doesn't happen, the LoI will never return?

I can't see why that would be the case.

Do we know what engagement there is with WatchLoI? It'd be key to whether RTÉ would fund a full season of it next year (and remember they're surely likely to be down cash next year, like most companies, so they can't just run with it because we want them to)

[nigel-harps1954]

My answer's genuine though. I'm in the "What's the point?" camp. We're all fans of the league, but head over heart has to happen at times. A whole season without fans would be disastrous. It'd be financially ruinous. It'd have no real impact on barstoolers who (a) don't care and (b) will quickly see that one behind-closed-doors match is much like another.

No other industry is being forced to open while being told it can't let its customers in so far as I can see

I really want to make a UCD joke here, but I'm not finding the words.

[Nesta99]

I can see clubs being shut up, never to return! Take clubs as businesses and if they were to close up for a year it is a brand new launch and battle to get (re)established. Recruitment is massive and with every club looking to similar pools of talent. Would be better ticking over with youths. Out of sight out of mind!

[John83]

I really want to make a UCD joke here, but I'm not finding the words.
It's been great for us this season. Crowds slightly up on projections.