Covid 19 - LOI Ramifications

[The Lilywhites]

Did I just imagine the 2017 season so....

It can happen either way, that's the point. Don't know why there's such a hullabaloo over a joke of a playoff series anyway. It's an extraordinary year and everyone should be happy to get back playing and get the season played out. It's certainly better than no relegation/promotion at all.

Do we really want 2 first division clubs up anyway? With the exception of Galway (in place of Harps) we probably have the 9 clubs we want in the PD at the moment. The rest bring very little or nothing to the table, as much as it might annoy them hearing that!

[RathfarnhamHoop]

If they're playing a shortened season, then the odds of being relegated because of luck rather than ability rise (fewer games (measurements) means random events are more impactful). That's an argument for fewer teams relegated. Likewise, a team is more likely to miss out on promotion based on bad luck if you play fewer rounds; that's grounds to be more generous to teams seeking promotion. How you weigh those factors is another argument, as is how best to compensate those clubs.

Let's try an analogy. Imagine you'd been put on notice at work back in March: pull up your socks by July, or you're gone. Fair enough, you say, I like this job and I can turn this around. Then lockdown meant you were on furlough until today. Would you feel hard done by if you boss decided to fire you based on the work you did between today and Wednesday, under anything but normal circumstances?

The odds of staying up by luck rather than ability also rises by the exact same amount.
Everything is cancelled out because a league is proportional and that's the whole point of them, no matter how long or short a league is, once the rounds are full rounds the results from those rounds are proportional which in turn makes them fair. If you have some bad luck along the way, tough **** that's football every club has some bad or good luck at some point get over it.

We're talking about a league here where even if a red card is adjudged to have been wrongly given you probably will still miss a game, playing less rounds is not reason to make the majority of games in the first division dead rubbers

[RathfarnhamHoop]

It can happen either way, that's the point. Don't know why there's such a hullabaloo over a joke of a playoff series anyway. It's an extraordinary year and everyone should be happy to get back playing and get the season played out. It's certainly better than no relegation/promotion at all.

Do we really want 2 first division clubs up anyway? With the exception of Galway (in place of Harps) we probably have the 9 clubs we want in the PD at the moment. The rest bring very little or nothing to the table, as much as it might annoy them hearing that!

That's season had relegation from the league too which keeps teams competitive and has a knock on effect through the whole league.

If a first division team is good enough to win the playoffs then yes I'd absolutely have them in the Premier division ahead of whoever they beat because they've earned it and that's how a league system works.

There's a hullabaloo about it because it's ****ing over probably 6/9 clubs in the first division by making their whole season have nothing to play for which is just not on.
People were on here complaining about dead rubbers in the Premier division at the end of last season, times that by 3 for the first division with no playoffs and that's why its a problem.

Dundalk fans have some ****in cheak to judge clubs by what they might bring to the league, by that exact same logic Waterford would have been a better addition to the league in those playoffs not too long ago, or do we just conveniently forget that too?

[pineapple stu]

The First Division clubs shouldn't be deciding anything, or PD clubs for that matter. The FAI should just make the decision. It's gone on long enough now. It's ridiculous how long it has gone on.
The FD clubs could have a say in shortening the FD part (ie the most part) of the play-offs. That only impacts them.

Rathfarnham Hoop has made my point on changing the promotion midway

[RathfarnhamHoop]

As an aside we're also seeing in other countries that did decide to change the rules of their competitions midway through with regards to how promotion and relegation and European spots are decided that lawsuits are a very real possibility and to be honest are the FAI in a position to be able to afford to pay out compensation? At least with cutting rounds they can still claim its an even round of games if they cut promotion spots that's a whole different ball park.

[nigel-harps1954]

Do we really want 2 first division clubs up anyway? With the exception of Galway (in place of Harps) we probably have the 9 clubs we want in the PD at the moment. The rest bring very little or nothing to the table, as much as it might annoy them hearing that!

That is, quite frankly, a pathetic statement to make.

[The Lilywhites]

Dundalk fans have some ****in cheak to judge clubs by what they might bring to the league, by that exact same logic Waterford would have been a better addition to the league in those playoffs not too long ago, or do we just conveniently forget that too?

No need for all the language, it doesn't really help your argument tbh.

And the bit I quoted is just complete nonsense. People zone in way too much on the 2012 season when we went with a team of kids. 2009 we qualified for Europe, 2010 we were around the top of the league for the first half of the season until injuries ravaged us and 2011 we were doing ok (Setanta Cup final), very good squad, until money started to run dry midseason. And look what we've done for the league since 2012...

All clubs have had meaningless games over the years. If there are no playoffs then some clubs will have little to play for maybe, but given it's a very short season and the first division looks extremely competitive, I doubt very much anyone is going to run away with it. You could have 3-4 clubs in the running to win it with a couple of games left.

That would be more exciting than having a drawn out playoff series where the 6th team could possibly have a shout of going up. More nonsense that. If a club is finishing below 2nd in the FD, in the state it is now, they should be nowhere near the PD.

Sure the whole 2006 season and playoffs were completely meaningless, but sure you'd already know that as even if Rovers had finished bottom of the First Division they still would have been handpicked for the 2007 PD.

It's just the way things fall sometimes. Dundalk have been on the wrong end of league restructures before, in 2002 and 2006, and almost in 2008.

This would be a midseason restructure but given what we're living through, who really cares. The FD clubs should suck it up or the FAI should give them the option of not bothering playing. At this stage they're holding everything up.

[sbgawa]

What i don't get is why rovers are standing alone to protect the first division by keeping the 2 up scenerio.
The minions running st joesephs boys and cabinteely have screwed rovers B at every opportunity, why try to protect the first division ?

[pineapple stu]

The FD clubs should suck it up or the FAI should give them the option of not bothering playing. At this stage they're holding everything up.
Jaysus, you're some ****wit, you know that?

You haven't even given a reason why the FD clubs should accept a change to what they signed up for other than "Toddle along there now, there's a good lad"

Here's an idea - there should be only two European spots this year. The season is changing, so really the PD clubs should suck it up or the FAI should give them the option of not bothering playing.

I'm sure you don't agree with that - yet what's the difference to what you're arguing for?

[RathfarnhamHoop]

No need for all the language, it doesn't really help your argument tbh.

And the bit I quoted is just complete nonsense. People zone in way too much on the 2012 season when we went with a team of kids. 2009 we qualified for Europe, 2010 we were around the top of the league for the first half of the season until injuries ravaged us and 2011 we were doing ok (Setanta Cup final), very good squad, until money started to run dry midseason. And look what we've done for the league since 2012...

All clubs have had meaningless games over the years. If there are no playoffs then some clubs will have little to play for maybe, but given it's a very short season and the first division looks extremely competitive, I doubt very much anyone is going to run away with it. You could have 3-4 clubs in the running to win it with a couple of games left.

That would be more exciting than having a drawn out playoff series where the 6th team could possibly have a shout of going up. More nonsense that. If a club is finishing below 2nd in the FD, in the state it is now, they should be nowhere near the PD.

Sure the whole 2006 season and playoffs were completely meaningless, but sure you'd already know that as even if Rovers had finished bottom of the First Division they still would have been handpicked for the 2007 PD.

It's just the way things fall sometimes. Dundalk have been on the wrong end of league restructures before, in 2002 and 2006, and almost in 2008.

This would be a midseason restructure but given what we're living through, who really cares. The FD clubs should suck it up or the FAI should give them the option of not bothering playing. At this stage they're holding everything up.

Not even going to give this a proper reply because it doesn't deserve one. That's just an incredibly short sighted, self centered, dim-witted view of it all.
I'm not surprised though

[pineapple stu]

Ollie Horgan openly backs reducing his side's chances of relegation anyway (https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2020/0629/1150379-horgan-half-a-season-should-mean-half-the-punishment/).

There's a shock.

[Yossarian]

So the league will resume with the same rules as it started, apart from only two rounds of fixtures. I can imagine a few clubs at the bottom of the Premier won’t be happy with one automatically relegated and then a play off aswell.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

I will no longer hear a single word from any first division club against Rovers 2 being in the league unless another new club applies!



I am of course joking, though I will be bringing this up at any suggestion that Rovers are a club that only looks out for themselves.

[dundalkfc10]

I will no longer hear a single word from any first division club against Rovers 2 being in the league unless another new club applies!



I am of course joking, though I will be bringing this up at any suggestion that Rovers are a club that only looks out for themselves.

Dundalk V Rovers in Oriel looks absolutely massive already, If ever a season was gonna be decided around European games and games V each other its this year.

[D24Saint]

So the league will resume with the same rules as it started, apart from only two rounds of fixtures. I can imagine a few clubs at the bottom of the Premier won’t be happy with one automatically relegated and then a play off aswell.

Any word on fans being allowed ?

[RathfarnhamHoop]

If the government regulations remain the same we could be looking at crowds of up to 5,000 in the grounds in September, which could mean that if fixtures stay the same order one of the first game with fans could be Rovers vs Bohs in Tallaght. To say tickets for that will be gold dust would probably be a contender for understatement of the century

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

So is it behind closed doors until September or are there 500 allowed up until then?

[dundalkfc10]

So is it behind closed doors until September or are there 500 allowed up until then?

500 would include Players, Staff, Referees, Board Members etc...

[RathfarnhamHoop]

I'd assume the 500 people will essentially just be rounded down to essential matchday personnel and club reps. Once you start letting fans in you need security, etc and the number becomes smaller so probably not viable.


I'd also like to point out many on here argued against me quite a lot when I said it would be ridiculous to call the league off for the year, said I was being stupidly optimistic. Don't be shy lads you can apologise for being so horribly far wrong anytime you want... We all know who you were anyway.

[Martinho II]

That is, quite frankly, a pathetic statement to make.

I agree with you Nigel on this. You would think with Dundalk being in the first division for seven years over a decade ago that statement wouldnt have being made. There are some progressive teams in the first division the likes of us who are far better equipped than over a decade ago even at our height, Drogheda Utd,Bray Wanderers the list is endless. As for the top flight with the behaviour of certain clubs dont get me started ie Lee Power at Waterford. Dont blame Alan Reynolds for walking out on them.

[The Lilywhites]

It fairly leaves Sligo with a hole to get out of.

If we end up replacing Sligo with Cabinteely for next season, that would be great altogether.

The crying first division clubs will be happy now anyway. A club could potentially earn around 18 points, lose 10 of their 18 games in the FD and have a shot at the playoff for PD football. What a laugh.

[Martinho II]

It fairly leaves Sligo with a hole to get out of.

If we end up replacing Sligo with Cabinteely for next season, that would be great altogether.

The crying first division clubs will be happy now anyway. A club could potentially earn around 18 points, lose 10 of their 18 games in the FD and have a shot at the playoff for PD football. What a laugh.

I am not going to reply directly back to this. First Division clubs never was the cause of the holdup. For goodness sake they even released a statement a few weeks back saying they had no objection to the season restarts.
This is desperate times we are in. Nothing was said when Wexford got promoted a few years back. If Cabinteely go up so be it. I would be quite happy to see them go up if we dont get promoted. End of story.

[The Lilywhites]

The PD doesn't need another Dublin club, and certainly not Stradbrook (surely they'd have to play elsewhere though).

[RathfarnhamHoop]

What the Premier Division "needs" is the 10 best teams in the country in it, I couldn't care less if they're spread across the country or all from within 10 minutes of eachother, if they earn their place in the division on the pitch that's all I care about

[The Lilywhites]

That's true. Hopefully Harps get relegated and Galway get promoted.

[The Lilywhites]

If the government regulations remain the same we could be looking at crowds of up to 5,000 in the grounds in September, which could mean that if fixtures stay the same order one of the first game with fans could be Rovers vs Bohs in Tallaght. To say tickets for that will be gold dust would probably be a contender for understatement of the century

It will be 5,000 with social distancing, either 1m or probably 2m (like where it's possible at concerts). So that means very little for LOI.

Hopefully they have streaming ready to go for July 31, but no doubt that will be another drama.

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

It fairly leaves Sligo with a hole to get out of.

If we end up replacing Sligo with Cabinteely for next season, that would be great altogether.

The crying first division clubs will be happy now anyway. A club could potentially earn around 18 points, lose 10 of their 18 games in the FD and have a shot at the playoff for PD football. What a laugh.

Win our game in hand and Cork are bottom. If we don’t get out of it so be it but we’re not cut adrift.

[nigel-harps1954]

That's true. Hopefully Harps get relegated and Galway get promoted.

And hopefully the Americans pull the pin and Dundalk end up in the sh!theap again with the buckets out. :rolleyes:

[The Lilywhites]

And hopefully the Americans pull the pin and Dundalk end up in the sh!theap again with the buckets out. :rolleyes:

Try to actually win something for the first time in nearly 50 years and I might take your yo-yo club seriously as it might finally bring something to the PD 😃

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Try to actually win something for the first time in nearly 50 years and I might take your yo-yo club seriously as it might finally bring something to the PD 😃

You talk some amount of ****e on here but this odd hatred of Harps just takes the biscuit.

At least harps aren't burning money and are a stable club. The same cannot be said for the majority of clubs. If we had a league of clubs run as well as they are we'd be in a much better place.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Rovers say they'll have info regarding how fans can view matches in the coming days. I'm lead to believe each club has been given the opportunity to decide how to market and distribute streaming access for their games themselves, that was before today though so may have changed.

[dundalkfc10]

You talk some amount of ****e on here but this odd hatred of Harps just takes the biscuit.

At least harps aren't burning money and are a stable club. The same cannot be said for the majority of clubs. If we had a league of clubs run as well as they are we'd be in a much better place.

Wouldnt listen to him

He was having a go at everything Dundalk recently, Perth no good, bad bad manager etc

A WUM

The loss included nearly 750,000 pumped into the YDC, but still the books needs balanced a bit more obviously.

Great to have something to look forward too, but no doubt the FAI will **** up the streaming "which they claimed was ready to go"

[The Lilywhites]

Wouldnt listen to him

He was having a go at everything Dundalk recently, Perth no good, bad bad manager etc

A WUM

The loss included nearly 750,000 pumped into the YDC, but still the books needs balanced a bit more obviously.

Great to have something to look forward too, but no doubt the FAI will **** up the streaming "which they claimed was ready to go"

Where did I say Perth was a "bad bad manager". I said we've gone backwards under him after Kenny left, which we have, and his signings are rubbish, which they are.

A "WUM" because you don't agree with me.

[EatYerGreens]

What the Premier Division "needs" is the 10 best teams in the country in it, I couldn't care less if they're spread across the country or all from within 10 minutes of eachother, if they earn their place in the division on the pitch that's all I care about

You're conflating results on the pitch with what any objective assessment would suggest was best for the game overall. They're not always the same thing - even if that's the way football is designed to work.

[dundalkfc10]

Where did I say Perth was a "bad bad manager". I said we've gone backwards under him after Kenny left, which we have, and his signings are rubbish, which they are.

A "WUM" because you don't agree with me.

We were a penalty shootout away from the best domestic season in the Clubs history.

Slogget has been voted MOTM in 2 of this 5 games for Dundalk, and everybody has said how good he looks.

Andy Boyle

Colovic looked good in the 20 mins he has seen so far in Donegal

Leahy is one best prospects in the league (and Irelands U21 left back)

Anyway this is not the thread for this

[sbgawa]

Yeah, what's not to like about Harps, u are treated like a human being , great place for a few pints and always co.peitive.

[DCSIL]

And hopefully the Americans pull the pin and Dundalk end up in the sh!theap again with the buckets out. :rolleyes:

Harps fan calling another club getting the buckets out, irony after the last couple of months!

[The Lilywhites]

We were a penalty shootout away from the best domestic season in the Clubs history.

Slogget has been voted MOTM in 2 of this 5 games for Dundalk, and everybody has said how good he looks.

Andy Boyle

Colovic looked good in the 20 mins he has seen so far in Donegal

Leahy is one best prospects in the league (and Irelands U21 left back)

Anyway this is not the thread for this

If you go back to what I said, I'm happy with Sloggett (although need to see more of him) and Leahy. You can't count Boyle as a Perth signing, and as for Colovic, we'll have to wait and see.

I just don't think with the resources we have we should be in the market for injury prone players or unproven players (or players that have 8 clubs by age 24).

But yeah, not the thread for this.

[Asterix]

According to a french radio station Rovers could be on their way to Paris to play PSG in a friendly.

[nigel-harps1954]

Harps fan calling another club getting the buckets out, irony after the last couple of months!

Please do go on. Give me your best explanation as to how a gofundme from a fan owned club to upgrade facilities (after making a profit on the books two years in a row), is somewhat equal to Dundalk getting the begging buckets out to 'keep our club alive'?

[DCSIL]

Please do go on. Give me your best explanation

Sums up the Arrogance right there. Expecting fans of other teams to fund improvements to your ground, Criticising the State for not handing out enough money for a new one. Could go on.

[Lim till i die]

I don't get how those aren't exactly the same thing worded differently?

You're both still effectively arguing over nothing.

There isn't a club in the league more than one bad weekend away from hitting the skids.

The following is a by no means extensive list of model clubs to follow over the couple of decades or so:

Cork city
Shelbourne
St. Patricks Athletic
Bohemian
Athlone Town
Cork City again
Galway United
Sligo
Waterford United
Shamrock
Dundalk

Stumbling into money before ****ing it away is, like most things in the league, cyclical.

[joey B]

I see Sligo the big arrogant f**kers have a gofund me on the go now aswell,state of them trying to survive and expecting help in a global pandemic!

[Olander]

I see Sligo the big arrogant f**kers have a gofund me on the go now aswell,state of them trying to survive and expecting help in a global pandemic!
Christ - their statement was painful to read. "We are hardest hit".

You'd have to acknowledge the great support that Sligo Rovers receives from their supporters and the wider community, but the statement is such a moanfest and they do love lavishing praise upon themselves.

The formating of the league for the rest of the year is the correct decision, Sligo are 3 points adrift now, they have plenty of chances to pull clear of the other clubs at the foot of the table. The fact that they campaigned for no relegation is pathetic and a bit embarrassing TBH, yet these conditions are considered to be "grossly unfair".

[El-Pietro]

Christ - their statement was painful to read. "We are hardest hit".

You'd have to acknowledge the great support that Sligo Rovers receives from their supporters and the wider community, but the statement is such a moanfest and they do love lavishing praise upon themselves.

The formating of the league for the rest of the year is the correct decision, Sligo are 3 points adrift now, they have plenty of chances to pull clear of the other clubs at the foot of the table. The fact that they campaigned for no relegation is pathetic and a bit embarrassing TBH, yet these conditions are considered to be "grossly unfair".
I may be wrong here but I think a whoosh is deserved here. I read this as Joey B being sarcastic in response to the ridiculous comments from DCSIL

[joey B]

I may be wrong here but I think a whoosh is deserved here. I read this as Joey B being sarcastic in response to the ridiculous comments from DCSIL

Indeed! But happy to facilitate Olander's point of view!:D

[Olander]

I may be wrong here but I think a whoosh is deserved here. I read this as Joey B being sarcastic in response to the ridiculous comments from DCSIL
Oh I know he was being sarcastic, I was just referencing the statement Sligo put out (which had the gofundme link in it). No issue with a go-fund me page, pound for pound Sligo Rovers supporters are the most loyal / generous to their club in the LOI.

I just find the way their club has conducted themselves in regards to the league formating a bit sad though.

[sbgawa]

The PCA are meeting tonight , stand by for more talk of non playing as the request for 1 relegation only has been turned down. Do these f wits not realise how micky mouse they make our league worth with this BS. Lee power who said at the start of this season it was his last is leading the charge because guess what he doesn't want to play anyway. Embarrassing.

[The Lilywhites]

The Sligo Rovers treasurer is in the media again giving out.

How much money did he make from the 'old' FAI when carrying out work on clubs' strategic plans in 2016/17?

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

Oh I know he was being sarcastic, I was just referencing the statement Sligo put out (which had the gofundme link in it). No issue with a go-fund me page, pound for pound Sligo Rovers supporters are the most loyal / generous to their club in the LOI.

I just find the way their club has conducted themselves in regards to the league formating a bit sad though.

We wouldn’t be able to anything without you getting offended by it somehow