2013 Attendances

[fionnsci]

#
Ata loss to understand thon ^^^
Dude,it's 10 euro into a Dundalk match.How pro active do you wont us to be.Let everyone in for nothing? (about 9 quid gbSTG pounds) Tell us oh great mind how you would selll that match to feckers who will watch it on for free on TV?


No,why?


One shot Fionnsci,slabberer pats fan.

I said it tongue in cheek because you commented very early in the morning (late at night). That and it was pretty nonsensical and obnoxious just like your subsequent comment to me.

[Ezeikial]

TV coverage shouldn't affect attendance by 25%

Of course it shouldn't.

Gates should be higher. Stay at homes for TV should be lower.

But the numbers sure indicate that TV (or some other factors) knocked at least that percentage off the gate last Friday.



TV coverage shouldn't affect attendance by 25%, and certainly shouldn't make such a dent in revenue for the match. There are ways to replace or boost the income, though it does take working a bit more out.

Do you know these mysterious ways you speak about? Do you think we would have the intellectual ability to comprehend?

Spill Spud Spill

[Martinho II]

Any idea of the attendance last night? For Salthill there seemed to be a decent crowd in and I'd guess around 30 in section O ...
Overall would I be way off in saying 300+?

would agree with you on that outspoken the clubhouse was packed like the previous week at half time!

[Keen2win]

Would have thought there was more there!

[Charlie Darwin]

I'm sure it applies to most but live on TV seems to reduce crowds for most club unless a game is a final etc. Last night if this was not on TV, we would have expected around 1,600 so 400 or so deciced not to go as it was on tv.

If all went to the ground, thats a min loss of 4k, plus what each person would have possibly spent in the bars, shop, food, programme etc, maybe 5k, thats a fair loss of revenue to be hoinest for any club.

So whats the solution? Take the hit as a once off and hope next (if selected) tv game is away? Or, unless its a once off for the home team, is there really any benefit unless rte start to compensate the clubs?

I can't see it happening anytime soon, but I think they should be paying the clubs at least 5k per game, (why not) that would seem a fair trade to me for game, but ofcourse this is all wrapped up in the rte/fai deal, that suits only one thing, and one only, the International side.
Clubs don't have any leverage to be demanding money for games. As soon as they did, RTE would rightly point out they could easily put on the rugby instead and get far more viewers. I wonder to what extent is sponsorship and advertising revenue boosted by TV coverage, and how much are clubs able to or prepared to plan for it.

[nigel-harps1954]

Week 8:

PREMIER DIVISION

Bohs - 1,703 (1,496; 1,488; 1,835; 2,366; 1,993; 1,924; 1,463; 1,976)
Bray - 813 (965; 1,121; 952; 1,169; 1,106; 1,200; 1,027; 1,550)
Cork - 2,361 (2,786; 2,128 FD; 1,693 FD; 2,681; 3,142; 2,897; 2,941; 3,644)
Derry - 1,577 (1,460; 2,135; 1,965 FD; 2,436; 3,363; 2,614; 3,229; 2,698)
Drogheda - 723 (977; 811; 859; 1,106; 1,631; 1,919; 1,751; 1,682)
Dundalk - 1,898 (949; 1,355; 1,877; 2,371; 1,459 FD; 1,406 FD; 1,078 FD; 474 FD)
Limerick - 2,473 (734 FD; 569 FD; 598 FD; 429 FD; 517 FD; 670 FD; 364 FD; 669 FD)
Pat's - 1,417 (1,474; 1,346; 1,756; 1,631; 1,795; 1,910; 1,342; 1,599)
Rovers - 3,200 (3,127; 3,779; 3,794; 3,611; 1,468; 1,715; 1,089 FD; 1,539)
Shels - 1,295 (1,187; 781 FD; 737 FD; 972 FD; 986 FD; 888 FD; 1,690; 1,949)
Sligo - 2,541 (3,007; 2,103; 1,807; 1,756; 1,960; 1,448; 1,806; 1,794 FD)
UCD - 539 (506; 558; 610; 272 FD; 546; 663; 546; 653; 306 FD)

FIRST DIVISION

Athlone - 437 (271; 200; 354; 462; 387; 670; 421; 316)
Cobh - 614 (2008 - 1,122 PD; 681; 368; 403; 240)
Harps - 664 (429; 433; 644; 480; 1,607 PD; 1,164; 428; 1,347 PD; 1,106) -
Longford - 385 (365; 315; 230; 260; 406; 885 PD; 681 PD; 1,004 PD)
Mervue - 289 (243; 349; 123; 166)
Salthill Devon - 113 (182; 125; 122)
Waterford - 439 (453; 466; 619; 434; 670; 1,181 PD; 915 PD; 1,513 PD)
Wexford - 246 (302; 216; 343; 494; 767; 810)

PREMIER AVERAGE: 1,731 (1,630; 1,547; 1,512; 2,010; 1,746; 1,687; 1,535; 1,759)
FIRST DIVISION AVERAGE: 400 (372; 578; 682; 417; 641; 722; 570; 520)

OVERALL AVERAGE: 1,065 (1,101; 1,110; 1,095; 1,175; 1,221; 1,235; 1,070; 1,195)

TOTAL WEEKLY ATTENDANCE: 9,867
OVERALL ATTENDANCE: 113,171

[Spudulika]

Of course it shouldn't.

Gates should be higher. Stay at homes for TV should be lower.

But the numbers sure indicate that TV (or some other factors) knocked at least that percentage off the gate last Friday.




Do you know these mysterious ways you speak about? Do you think we would have the intellectual ability to comprehend?

Spill Spud Spill

Ezekial, I don't disagree with you regarding how there is an influence from tv, or other reasons, it's just too easy to blame one cause for it, especially as the fans have been out in force this year and there is a new energy about the club.

On the other point, 2 years ago I made the mistake of offering to help the club out of loyalty. I ended up being embarrassed by what went on. I know it's a new crew (mostly) in there, especially with Andy and Paul in charge (from personal experience they're 2 of the best guys about and massively genuine), though what this trip home has thought me is that (from Friday night at UCD and tonight at Richmond) there is a lot for the LOI clubs to do and I don't see it changing any time soon. It makes Russia look like a cake walk (tongue in cheek of course).

[Mr A]

There is generally no shortage of good ideas and good intentions at LOI clubs. What is severely lacking is people to help out and finance to make things happen.

At Harps we always have brilliant people involved, but never enough of them.

[Dodge]

I'm now 100% convinced that Pats only count people who pay on the night (ie they don't include season tickets, guests etc like they should do). Have a look at the Pats highlights tonight. That stand holds 1,900 and was far more than 3/4 full. There was another 3-400 on the Camac side. I'm usually very conservative with estimates but there's absolutely no way the announced crowd was right

[JC_GUFC]

Week 8:


PREMIER AVERAGE: 1,731 (1,630; 1,547; 1,512; 2,010; 1,746; 1,687; 1,535; 1,759)
FIRST DIVISION AVERAGE: 400 (372; 578; 682; 417; 641; 722; 570; 520)

OVERALL AVERAGE: 1,065 (1,101; 1,110; 1,095; 1,175; 1,221; 1,235; 1,070; 1,195)

TOTAL WEEKLY ATTENDANCE: 9,867
OVERALL ATTENDANCE: 113,171

Your Overall average is wrong there Nigel.

Prem average and Div 1 average both up but overall down. I make it 90 LoI matches played this season (58 in Prem and 32 in Div 1) so Overall average should be 1257.

[oriel]

I'm now 100% convinced that Pats only count people who pay on the night (ie they don't include season tickets, guests etc like they should do). Have a look at the Pats highlights tonight. That stand holds 1,900 and was far more than 3/4 full. There was another 3-400 on the Camac side. I'm usually very conservative with estimates but there's absolutely no way the announced crowd was right

This sounds similar to what Dundalk do, they only count paying in tickets on the night, but then add back in the ST holders figure. Naturally not all of the ST people will go to every game, but it will even out over the season and I think this is a very reasonable way to arrive at the figure that is reported. Also you have to take into account the usual small figure who are neither paying in or ST, like sponsors, other free, guests and media.

It does sound like Pats are simply not including they ST figure, so can you assume all future crowds at RP should be the figure announced + whatever your ST figure is?

[Ezeikial]

Ezekial, I don't disagree with you regarding how there is an influence from tv, or other reasons, it's just too easy to blame one cause for it, especially as the fans have been out in force this year and there is a new energy about the club.

On the other point, 2 years ago I made the mistake of offering to help the club out of loyalty. I ended up being embarrassed by what went on. I know it's a new crew (mostly) in there, especially with Andy and Paul in charge (from personal experience they're 2 of the best guys about and massively genuine), though what this trip home has thought me is that (from Friday night at UCD and tonight at Richmond) there is a lot for the LOI clubs to do and I don't see it changing any time soon. It makes Russia look like a cake walk (tongue in cheek of course).

???
Not for the first time, I am perplexed by your reply!

You said this originally-

There are ways to replace or boost the income, though it does take working a bit more ot.

I ask you to tell us what these "ways" are in your opinion.

Maybe you were just spoofing or these "ways" are highly confidential commercial secrets!

[PartySaint]

I'm now 100% convinced that Pats only count people who pay on the night (ie they don't include season tickets, guests etc like they should do). Have a look at the Pats highlights tonight. That stand holds 1,900 and was far more than 3/4 full. There was another 3-400 on the Camac side. I'm usually very conservative with estimates but there's absolutely no way the announced crowd was right

It's definitely something like that. I'm always about 2/300 off with my estimates in Richmond. There is no way there was only 1,700 at the Drogs game and only 1,600 at the Sligo game. I was convinced one of our turnstyle clickers weren't working but your way sounds more plausible

[NeverFeltBetter]

Thomond had automatic ticket scanners in operation against Shels by the way, which should help with some iffy (or non-existent) attendance announcements in future.

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

It's definitely something like that. I'm always about 2/300 off with my estimates in Richmond. There is no way there was only 1,700 at the Drogs game and only 1,600 at the Sligo game. I was convinced one of our turnstyle clickers weren't working but your way sounds more plausible

There's no turnstile for the away section. Just walk in the big gate.

[Ezeikial]

There's no turnstile for the away section. Just walk in the big gate.

ahem.....after you buy a ticket (which might even be numbered)

[Dodge]

All fans are supposed to eb ticketed but I know the guest list isn't always. Season tickets (for Pats) have removable tickets for each game so it shouldn't be a problem. I do think that paid tickets are counted to reconcile cash and that's all they care about.

Rovers have had tickets scans since they moved to Tallaght but they refuse to announce official attendances. For their own reasons I assume

[fionnsci]

I'm now 100% convinced that Pats only count people who pay on the night (ie they don't include season tickets, guests etc like they should do). Have a look at the Pats highlights tonight. That stand holds 1,900 and was far more than 3/4 full. There was another 3-400 on the Camac side. I'm usually very conservative with estimates but there's absolutely no way the announced crowd was right

Yeah, inclined to agree. The official figures have been very much on the low side this season.

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

ahem.....after you buy a ticket (which might even be numbered)

ahem.....I was replying to his comment about a turnstile clicker maybe being broken

[jinxy lilywhite]

Personally I think we have a fall off in attendance acrross the whole league from the months of May till August. Whether it is the bright evenings, people saving for holidays, on holidays or returning from holidays, or a general reduction in peoples disposable income, you notice a drop off in the grounds from the start of the season.

I also believe that the bright evenings negatively affects the athmosphere and that may in effect reduce the footfall that grace our grounds over the spring/summer season. Floodlit games imo offer a better ambiance, maybe it is the tribal animal in us all.

Would a move to Winter football be the magic bullet? Probably not and the the cold and wet would be the very reasons that attendances would reduce over the months of late october to January.

Personally i thought in oriel there was 1400 to 1500 but that was my opinion.

For clubs to increase the overall attendences of the league i feel that clubs need to understand the trends/factors of the attendances and this needs to be done in 2 ways by the clubs improving what they can do individually, and as a league as a whole. I fear that the majority of clubs views attendances in a solitary fashion and on a club by club basis but it is probably more interlinked to each clubs more that they realise. In my eyes the major caveat to the league improving is that not only do so many clubs lack a clear and coherent plan but there is not an overall vision by the powers that be on how they would like to see the league run and their objectives and goals for the league in 2 years or even 5 years time.
lol if their is then it must be better guarded than the last secret of fatima.

[Jofspring]

Usually most off the drop off is because people go into the season optimistic and if after a few games its not going how they imagined they start to pick and choose the matches they do attend. People are just too fickle.

[bullit]

I said it tongue in cheek because you commented very early in the morning (late at night). That and it was pretty nonsensical and obnoxious just like your subsequent comment to me.

Jaysus,sorry if i offended you.Not like me to be offending people.Again realy, realy,realy,realy sorry for any offense caused.

[Charlie Darwin]

Jaysus,sorry if i offended you.Not like me to be offending people.Again realy, realy,realy,realy sorry for any offense caused.
Prove it by running on the pitch at the next Dundalk game waving an umbrella.

[nigel-harps1954]

Your Overall average is wrong there Nigel.

Prem average and Div 1 average both up but overall down. I make it 90 LoI matches played this season (58 in Prem and 32 in Div 1) so Overall average should be 1257.


Microsoft Excel tells me it's 1065. I trust the mathematics of a computer. There were less teams last season, which makes last seasons average higher.

[bullit]

Bullit, if you were less rude you might be able to elicit a proper answer. TV coverage shouldn't affect attendance by 25%, and certainly shouldn't make such a dent in revenue for the match. There are ways to replace or boost the income, though it does take working a bit more ot.

joke right?

Still waiting for this silver bullet solution you and Maribov have?

[Dillonman]

Prove it by running on the pitch at the next Dundalk game waving an umbrella.

That's Rovers fans who wave umbrellas during games...

[Charlie Darwin]

That's Rovers fans who wave umbrellas during games...
http://i.qkme.me/3rao62.jpg

[adamd164]

ExtraTime estimates 300 at Bray vs Cork City.

I think that's being generous! The away crowd were a good chunk of the overall attendance, and there weren't that many of us either.

[MariborKev]

joke right?

Still waiting for this silver bullet solution you and Maribov have?

At what point did I say it was a silver bullet?

I merely questioned if LOI clubs had a proper assessment of the media value of their exposure and were they including this in negotiations with sponsors, in order to offset the loss of revenue from falling gates due to TV against sponsorship values.

[Dillonman]

http://i.qkme.me/3rao62.jpg

I'm not exactly to sure who you support so excuse me if I didn't get it!

[Macy]

Usually most off the drop off is because people go into the season optimistic and if after a few games its not going how they imagined they start to pick and choose the matches they do attend. People are just too fickle.
I'm not so sure tbh. The good/better weather may be better to attend in, but it also leads to more competition imo, from non football activities (such as family days out and holidays, farm work, GAA etc etc). iirc the pattern of attendances has been to drop for the summer, and then pick up again in the Autumn. If it was fickle fans and optimism getting dashed, there wouldn't be the recovery at the end of the season - as the season goes on more supporters/ clubs see nothing left to play for.

There needs to be proper analysis of attendees to try and establish the facts. It may be the summer season has no impact, or maybe it does, but no other change should be made (like the switch to summer was done) on a whim and guesses.

[fionnsci]

Jaysus,sorry if i offended you.Not like me to be offending people.Again realy, realy,realy,realy sorry for any offense caused.

Not offended, just think it would stand to you to lose the attitude.

[nigel-harps1954]

Midweek games added:

PREMIER DIVISION

Bohs - 1,703 (1,496; 1,488; 1,835; 2,366; 1,993; 1,924; 1,463; 1,976)
Bray - 710 (965; 1,121; 952; 1,169; 1,106; 1,200; 1,027; 1,550)
Cork - 2,361 (2,786; 2,128 FD; 1,693 FD; 2,681; 3,142; 2,897; 2,941; 3,644)
Derry - 1,577 (1,460; 2,135; 1,965 FD; 2,436; 3,363; 2,614; 3,229; 2,698)
Drogheda - 723 (977; 811; 859; 1,106; 1,631; 1,919; 1,751; 1,682)
Dundalk - 1,898 (949; 1,355; 1,877; 2,371; 1,459 FD; 1,406 FD; 1,078 FD; 474 FD)
Limerick - 2,473 (734 FD; 569 FD; 598 FD; 429 FD; 517 FD; 670 FD; 364 FD; 669 FD)
Pat's - 1,412 (1,474; 1,346; 1,756; 1,631; 1,795; 1,910; 1,342; 1,599)
Rovers - 3,200 (3,127; 3,779; 3,794; 3,611; 1,468; 1,715; 1,089 FD; 1,539)
Shels - 1,295 (1,187; 781 FD; 737 FD; 972 FD; 986 FD; 888 FD; 1,690; 1,949)
Sligo - 2,541 (3,007; 2,103; 1,807; 1,756; 1,960; 1,448; 1,806; 1,794 FD)
UCD - 539 (506; 558; 610; 272 FD; 546; 663; 546; 653; 306 FD)

FIRST DIVISION

Athlone - 437 (271; 200; 354; 462; 387; 670; 421; 316)
Cobh - 614 (2008 - 1,122 PD; 681; 368; 403; 240)
Harps - 664 (429; 433; 644; 480; 1,607 PD; 1,164; 428; 1,347 PD; 1,106) -
Longford - 385 (365; 315; 230; 260; 406; 885 PD; 681 PD; 1,004 PD)
Mervue - 289 (243; 349; 123; 166)
Salthill Devon - 113 (182; 125; 122)
Waterford - 439 (453; 466; 619; 434; 670; 1,181 PD; 915 PD; 1,513 PD)
Wexford - 246 (302; 216; 343; 494; 767; 810)

PREMIER AVERAGE: 1,701 (1,630; 1,547; 1,512; 2,010; 1,746; 1,687; 1,535; 1,759)
FIRST DIVISION AVERAGE: 400 (372; 578; 682; 417; 641; 722; 570; 520)

OVERALL AVERAGE: 1,050 (1,101; 1,110; 1,095; 1,175; 1,221; 1,235; 1,070; 1,195)

TOTAL WEEKLY ATTENDANCE: Two games: 1,684.
OVERALL ATTENDANCE: 114,855.

[Spudulika]

???
Not for the first time, I am perplexed by your reply!

You said this originally-


I ask you to tell us what these "ways" are in your opinion.

Maybe you were just spoofing or these "ways" are highly confidential commercial secrets!

Ezekial, since you've a vested interest, there are ways to find out, simple as that. The story regarding Dundalk was very simple, 2 years ago I (with our company) was asked about assisting finding a buyer for the club. When this was put in place, with plans etc, despite the oddly growing costs and debts, and caveats and add ons, the deal was being pushed until there was nothing, right after a business plan was sent in. So, pardon me for being a little dubious.

Not spoofing at all, if you contact me directly you can get the catalogue with completed projects etc. Simple as that.

[bullit]

Not offended, just think it would stand to you to lose the attitude.
Ok.

;)

[bullit]

At what point did I say it was a silver bullet?

I merely questioned if LOI clubs had a proper assessment of the media value of their exposure and were they including this in negotiations with sponsors, in order to offset the loss of revenue from falling gates due to TV against sponsorship values.
Throw out your iideas on that sure,i'm sure we here at blollix Dundalk will be able to comprehend all that you great mind has to say.

[Dalymountrower]

Throw out your iideas on that sure,i'm sure we here at blollix Dundalk will be able to comprehend all that you great mind has to say.

This might surprise you, Bull--it,but not everything posted on this Forum is directed at your club. A reasonable question was posed as to whether clubs are maximising other revenue streams from live TV coverage given that most clubs suffer a loss in crowd receipts ( Bohs drop aprox 4-500 from what would be expected if a particular game is not televised)
So, for example, are clubs going out to businesses who don`t usually support them and asking them how much would they pay for 90 minutes of advertising on a Friday evening on RTE2.

[Mr A]

The best example I recall of this was Galway United in a televised game when they sold off back of shirt sponsorship for each player. It was a cup semi final against Longford away I think and a tidy sum was made.

There no reason that sponsors couldn't buy the opportunity to erect some massively prominent advertising in some empty part of the stadium for one night when the cameras are there. And I think every club should be looking to get bonus clauses in their deals with main sponsor for every live game they appear in.

[avvenalaf]

The best example I recall of this was Galway United in a televised game when they sold off back of shirt sponsorship for each player. It was a cup semi final against Longford away I think and a tidy sum was made.

There no reason that sponsors couldn't buy the opportunity to erect some massively prominent advertising in some empty part of the stadium for one night when the cameras are there. And I think every club should be looking to get bonus clauses in their deals with main sponsor for every live game they appear in.

Best example and Galway United in the same sentence? Hmmm.........

[oriel]

I hear Drogs are doing a family event for their game tonight v Bohs. I hope it works out for them after the events of last Sat night in Sligo.

[adamd164]

2118 at Cork City v Pats.

[nigel-harps1954]

735 at Shels v UCD
1,000 Bray v Dundalk (estimate)

[bullit]

1,000 Bray v Dundalk (estimate)

700/750 i'd say,Dundalk took near 400.Bit of sun for the Lilywhite fans :)

[nigel-harps1954]

1,000 estimate in Drogheda.
3,000 estimate in Tallaght.

[dundalkfc10]

735 at Shels v UCD
1,000 Bray v Dundalk (estimate)

We easily had more if not as many as Bray, No way was 1,000......750 tops

[gufc2000]

Extratime estimated 300 in Athlone

[gufcfan]

60 estimate in Drom from twitter.

[bullit]

This might surprise you, Bull--it,but not everything posted on this Forum is directed at your club. A reasonable question was posed as to whether clubs are maximising other revenue streams from live TV coverage given that most clubs suffer a loss in crowd receipts ( Bohs drop aprox 4-500 from what would be expected if a particular game is not televised)
So, for example, are clubs going out to businesses who don`t usually support them and asking them how much would they pay for 90 minutes of advertising on a Friday evening on RTE2.
Tell me what you reckon.MNS is only on 5 years.Do you imagine everyone at clubs wakening up and saying WOW! we have missed the ball on this one? regarding advertising?
And yes i'm pushing this as a DundalkFC fanatic To me No other club excists on this planet

[bluemovie]

Best example and Galway United in the same sentence? Hmmm.........

Galway United are the best example of a club being lauded for employing an ex-con famous for making one of the world's biggest banks go bust, then themselves going bust????

335 at Blues v Longford.

[Battery Rover]

Extratime estimated 300 in Athlone

Attendance 301