Andy Reid(b 1982)

[Noelys Guitar]

Taken from the West ham's fans forum Kumb.com

I can sort of understand why Zola made the subs he did, although I hope taking Behrami off was a precaution against injury rather than tactical as Diamanti is never gonna track back and do the tackling that we needed in that situation. He could see them scoring again and tried to put on some attacking players to see if we could nick the win. I feel we missed Parker a lot this afternoon as they bullied our CM. Andy Reid was outstanding for them but lucky for us Bent had one of his dodgy games.

[SuperDave]

Reid's free kick, I assume was DIRECT in to the goal, a bit different don't you think?

There are many reasons he should be in the squad, not least of all, the calibre of some who are in the squad.

There is no difference. If you have set piece routines that involve shooting and you score one time out of ten as opposed to routines that involve crossing and scoring one time out of ten, there is no difference. The scoreboard will be the same at the end of the game which is all that matters. And having wingers on who'll track back and central midfielders who are tenacious in the tackle will also affect the scoreboard.

[Murfinator]

Andy Reid is probably the Stephen Ireland of this season. Fringe player from the previous season facing the door after new found wealth and manager for the club, knuckles down and trains like crazy in the summer and wows everyone with his turnaround the next season proving himself to be the sides key player despite the players worth millions around him.

[LFCSixty/Eighty]

For what its worth Andy Reid is 49 points in Fantasy Football midfielders at the moment (4 points off 3rd position) while Darren Gibson has a grand total of 1. Even taking into account that Fantasy Football isn't the gospel according to football, this alone tells you all anyone needs to know about how both players are getting on at the moment.

Loyalty only gets you so far and why Trappatoni feels the need to include an who even when he is fully fit over a player that is clearly on top of his game is becominng more and more baffling.

Anyone that says Darren Gibson would fit into this 'system' and Andy Reid wouldn't knows nothing about football. Andy Reid wouldn't have gotten to where he is today without being able to fit into a game plan that his various managers throughout his career have asked him to play, whether this be 'in the hole', in the middle of the park or on either wing.

[Noelys Guitar]

I don't know why Sunderland players (either under orders from Bruce or by what they see in front of them) pass to Reid at every opportunity. But it was obvious yesterday that Reid is the conduit for everything good about Sunderland. His first touch (often with two WH players marking him) was superb. I would love to know Brady's true views on the sending to Coventry of Reid. Brady would have recognised himself in his prime yesterday.

[Emmet7]

Not the Andy Reid debate again.

Trap is without any shadow of a doubt the greatest manager the Irish senior soccer team has ever had. He knows more than everyone on this site about the nuts and bolts of ACTUALLY MANAGING A SUCCESSFUL soccer team. Sorry for the caps, but people still seem to think Trap is some chancer trying his arm with no plan.

Andy Reid does not fit into his plans and that's good enough for me. Many of Trap's decisions have seemed insane and mad to some in advance, but which worked out brillantly afterwards. In fact all his judgements have been spot on. And I trust his judgement on Andy Reid as well.

If Trap thought Reid would deliver us to South Africa, there isnt a doubt in the world he would have him in the squad and or team. It just so happens he doesn't think Reid would do any better than McGeady, Duff, Lawerance, Hunt or any of our creative players.

Trap prefers two central holding midfielders. Andy Reid is not a central midfielder. And is he better than what we have on the wings? I doubt it.

I repeat Trap is the best manager we have ever had. Imagine what he might have delivered if he had the players Big Jack had, or if he had Roy Keane playing for him. Give the guy a break, he's done well so far.

Even the manager of a Phoenix Park side would tell you that there is no place for Reid in the current team. He is not a central midfielder. Why replace what we have with a player out of position? It's insane that people would suggest that.

The balance of the team is fine now. Putting Andy Reid in the centre of midfield would destroy the balance and leave us exposed to attacks up the middle, not least from players like Henry and Anelka who sometimes drop deep. Andy Reid defending against Anelka and Henry? We'd be destroyed if that happened.

[musicinmouth]

Trap prefers two central holding midfielders. Andy Reid is not a central midfielder. And is he better than what we have on the wings? I doubt it.

Even the manager of a Phoenix Park side would tell you that there is no place for Reid in the current team. He is not a central midfielder. Why replace what we have with a player out of position? It's insane that people would suggest that.

Yes he is a central midfielder. That's where he has played most of his football down through the years.

You might not think he's a good central midfielder, or he is missing some defensive qualities, but he's a central midfielder...

[FarBeag]

Not the Andy Reid debate again.

Trap is without any shadow of a doubt the greatest manager the Irish senior soccer team has ever had. He knows more than everyone on this site about the nuts and bolts of ACTUALLY MANAGING A SUCCESSFUL soccer team. Sorry for the caps, but people still seem to think Trap is some chancer trying his arm with no plan.

Andy Reid does not fit into his plans and that's good enough for me. Many of Trap's decisions have seemed insane and mad to some in advance, but which worked out brillantly afterwards. In fact all his judgements have been spot on. And I trust his judgement on Andy Reid as well.

If Trap thought Reid would deliver us to South Africa, there isnt a doubt in the world he would have him in the squad and or team. It just so happens he doesn't think Reid would do any better than McGeady, Duff, Lawerance, Hunt or any of our creative players.

Trap prefers two central holding midfielders. Andy Reid is not a central midfielder. And is he better than what we have on the wings? I doubt it.

I repeat Trap is the best manager we have ever had. Imagine what he might have delivered if he had the players Big Jack had, or if he had Roy Keane playing for him. Give the guy a break, he's done well so far.

Even the manager of a Phoenix Park side would tell you that there is no place for Reid in the current team. He is not a central midfielder. Why replace what we have with a player out of position? It's insane that people would suggest that.

The balance of the team is fine now. Putting Andy Reid in the centre of midfield would destroy the balance and leave us exposed to attacks up the middle, not least from players like Henry and Anelka who sometimes drop deep. Andy Reid defending against Anelka and Henry? We'd be destroyed if that happened.

As another poster stated. Anyone who says that Andy Reid is not a quality player knows nothing about football. Well, Its probally better not to comment on this load of rubbish you just wrote.

[Emmet7]

As another poster stated. Anyone who says that Andy Reid is not a quality player knows nothing about football. Well, Its probally better not to comment on this load of rubbish you just wrote.

Hold on a minute, I never for one instance said he wasn't a quality player so you are arguing about something completely different.

He just doesn't fit into Trap's plans, he'd have to be played out of position to fit into those plans, it's really that straightforward.

Sticking Reid in the side in central midfield would be like saying Caleb Folan should be playing at right back or central defender because he's better than so and so.

I'm not the Irish manager, and clearly he doesn't think Reid fits in the side. And he's probably right on that.

Where would you put him in? Would you play him in central midfield against the French?

To be honest we have enough creative players in the team with Doyle, Keane, Duff and Lawrance or McGeady.

We are actually short on Roy Keane types, people who will make the tough tackles, track back, carry the ball forward, and make that last ditch tackle. Is Andy Reid in the same mould as Roy Keane?

And when people like me and others say we need a new Roy Keane, others say "Yes, but Andy Reid could give us creativity". But he's no Roy Keane, that's the problem.

[Emmet7]

Yes he is a central midfielder. That's where he has played most of his football down through the years.

You might not think he's a good central midfielder, or he is missing some defensive qualities, but he's a central midfielder...

My point is we have enough creative players.

Those who say he should be in the side are always vague about what his role should be. What happens when an Ireland attack breaks down? He will definately have to defend then.

A central midfielder cannot go 90 minutes without defending. In any case I don't know if anyone has noticed, but Andy Reid isn't the tallest player in the world. So he'd be no good defending setpieces, another minus.

Trap has a cautious style of play. If he could win every game 1-0 he'd take that. Of course creative chances are going to be limited. But on the other side of the coin, the chances other teams create are limited.

That's why all Irish games under Trap (I think) have ended either draws or winning or losing by one goal. We are never going to win 5-0 but we are also never going to lose 2 or 3 nil.

Remember when Stan was in charge? One week we would go out and beat the Swedes by 3 goals, the next we would be beaten by 3 goals by Chile, or concede 5 against Cyprus.

Tactically we were defensively poor under Stan and Andy Reid was a cornerstone of his team.

We cannot afford to concede 2 or 3 goals against the French, whether Reid is playing or not.

[Razors left peg]

Emmet, Reid is better than Lawrence,Hunt and at the moment McGeady too, although I am a massive McGeady fan. Having said that at least they are wingers of quality so if Trap has an issue with Reid than fair enough those 3 are good enough to be in the team... but when he chooses to play Andy Keogh on the wing ahead of Reid that annoys me.

But as you said he is the best manager we have ever had and Im delighted with the way things are going over all. I just dont think that Andy Reids international career should be ended

[Noelys Guitar]

My point is we have enough creative players.

Those who say he should be in the side are always vague about what his role should be. What happens when an Ireland attack breaks down? He will definately have to defend then.

A central midfielder cannot go 90 minutes without defending. In any case I don't know if anyone has noticed, but Andy Reid isn't the tallest player in the world. So he'd be no good defending setpieces, another minus.

Trap has a cautious style of play. If he could win every game 1-0 he'd take that. Of course creative chances are going to be limited. But on the other side of the coin, the chances other teams create are limited.

That's why all Irish games under Trap (I think) have ended either draws or winning or losing by one goal. We are never going to win 5-0 but we are also never going to lose 2 or 3 nil.

Remember when Stan was in charge? One week we would go out and beat the Swedes by 3 goals, the next we would be beaten by 3 goals by Chile, or concede 5 against Cyprus.

Tactically we were defensively poor under Stan and Andy Reid was a cornerstone of his team.

We cannot afford to concede 2 or 3 goals against the French, whether Reid is playing or not.

We lost 3-0 to Australia. So straight away you should know that and don't. Trap has done an excellent job by getting us to the play-offs. But leaving Andy Reid out of the squad is a bad footballing decision. And your suggestion that Andy Reid was the cornerstone of and somehow to blame for results under Stan's is............What can I say.

[DmanDmythDledge]

A central midfielder cannot go 90 minutes without defending.
He has previously for Ireland and for Charlton and Sunderland in the Premiership. What makes you think that he wouldn't be able to again, especially considering he is now at peak physical condition/fitness?

[ArdeeBhoy]

Of course Andy Reid should be playing, but Trap knows better.
(And he's old and stubborn. Make of that what you will.).

[LFCSixty/Eighty]

Found this link dated from the European Championship in 2004

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/article447692.ece

Interesting to read Gattusso comments about how trap had left Pirlo out of the team during that Championship and that he was so forthright in his comments about how Trappatoni deals with players whom he can even speak the same language with.

Gattuso had been grumpy. He felt he and Pirlo should have reprised their AC Milan partnership against the Danes and, with Marcello Lippi or Fabio Capello expected to take over from Trapattoni after the tournament, he hasn’t been keeping his trap shut. “I’d always play Pirlo but Trap says his first concern is to avoid losing goals. The truth is that we didn’t know what we were doing out there, everyone should know his role and have precise responsibilities. Trap spoke to us for five minutes before training after the Denmark game but he didn’t say anything particularly interesting. Having top-class players isn’t enough, we need organisation too.” The headlines offered the same advice. Trap, We Need Pirlo said one, No Gameplan, No Leader, another.

Even as one of Andy Reids biggest fans I can admit that Pirlo is in a completely different league. If Trappatoni can leave Pirlo out of his team when almost every football fan would have him in their first 11 says everythnig we need to know about how Trappatoni sees the game.

This is the same Pirlo that played against us in 3rd gear and still ran the show.

This is the same player that later under Lippi was instrumental in the teams victory in the 2006 World Cup.

This is the same player that was named man of the match three times, more than any other player in the tournament, and ultimately won the Bronze Ball (3rd best player in tournament).

It just goes to show that Trappatoni ISN'T always right and should be open to question on his decisions. Ultimately his ideology is frozen in the 1980's when he won most of his silverware. He hasn't developed in the intervening years though football is now a totally different game than it was then, and regardless of us qualifying or not for South Africa he is not going to change his outlook on the game.

What Trappatoni's exit from the Italian job proves is that players make a team, not a manager and while Lippi used Pirlo to help him and Italy win the World Cup in 2006, Trappatoni lost his job for not doing likewise. If he had done so maybe now he would be known as a World Cup winner and not his successor.

[SuperDave]

For what its worth Andy Reid is 49 points in Fantasy Football midfielders at the moment (4 points off 3rd position) while Darren Gibson has a grand total of 1. Even taking into account that Fantasy Football isn't the gospel according to football, this alone tells you all anyone needs to know about how both players are getting on at the moment.


Would Andy Reid get a game at Man United ahead of Ryan Giggs, Anderson, Paul Scholes, Michael Carrick, Nani, Darren Fletcher, Antonio Valencia, Park ji Sung etc etc? Is he 22 or 27? And has he been injured recently?

Fantasy Football might be fine to show how Andy Reid is getting on but using it as a stick to beat Darron Gibson with is plain unfair and you know it. How about comparing Andy Reid to Damien Duff, as Trap seems to view Andy Reid as a left winger? Reid has 49 points from 653 minutes while Duff has 35 points from 581 minutes. Granted, it is in Reid's favour but not by loads and Duff has great experience and brings far more to our team and our system.

Your criticism of Darron Gibson is downright ridiculous.

[FarBeag]

Emmet. What makes you think Reid does not track back? Maybe in the past he did not do it as much as he should . He is a changed man. He is a different player now and he proves this week in week out against the best in the premiership .He is a gifted player who made a mistake. He loves playing football for his country and at one point stated he would swim across the Irish sea to do so.What more does a talented footballer have to do? Get down on his knees and beg? let bygones be bygones and move on. Andy has Trap and co should do the same.

Paul McGrath and Roy Keane who were Irelands best players over the last decade created more controversy that Reid will ever do, yet they are Gods among the greater percentage of football supporters population in Ireland.

Trap got us to the play offs and fair dues to him but his is not immune to criticism. What is going on between him and Andy is purely personal and nothing else. We have a small pool of talented players to pick from and Andy Reid is one of those. It’s just a shame that our manager does not think so.

[Noelys Guitar]

Would Andy Reid get a game at Man United ahead of Ryan Giggs, Anderson, Paul Scholes, Michael Carrick, Nani, Darren Fletcher, Antonio Valencia, Park ji Sung etc etc? Is he 22 or 27? And has he been injured recently?

Fantasy Football might be fine to show how Andy Reid is getting on but using it as a stick to beat Darron Gibson with is plain unfair and you know it. How about comparing Andy Reid to Damien Duff, as Trap seems to view Andy Reid as a left winger? Reid has 49 points from 653 minutes while Duff has 35 points from 581 minutes. Granted, it is in Reid's favour but not by loads and Duff has great experience and brings far more to our team and our system.

Your criticism of Darron Gibson is downright ridiculous.

His performance yesterday was comparable to Giggs at his best. He is at this moment in time miles ahead of Carrick. Sunderland outplayed United at Old Trafford and Reid was one of the best players on the pitch that day. Most neutral observers acknowledged that fact.

[FarBeag]

Would Andy Reid get a game at Man United ahead of Ryan Giggs, Anderson, Paul Scholes, Michael Carrick, Nani, Darren Fletcher, Antonio Valencia, Park ji Sung etc etc? Is he 22 or 27? And has he been injured recently?

Fantasy Football might be fine to show how Andy Reid is getting on but using it as a stick to beat Darron Gibson with is plain unfair and you know it. How about comparing Andy Reid to Damien Duff, as Trap seems to view Andy Reid as a left winger? Reid has 49 points from 653 minutes while Duff has 35 points from 581 minutes. Granted, it is in Reid's favour but not by loads and Duff has great experience and brings far more to our team and our system.

Your criticism of Darron Gibson is downright ridiculous.




What player in the Irish team would ? it’s an absolute rubbish argument. We are not talking about the quality of Man u players we are talking about the fact that Trap sees Hunt, Lawrence, Keogh Rowland’s Miller and anyone else he calls up as better players than Andy Reid.

I like Gibson but he did not set the world a light at Wolves . He players better with betters players to carry him something we don’t have at present. By the time he breaks into the Manu first 11 we will be 27 if he is still fortunate enough to be around.

[tetsujin1979]

I'd actually like to see a comparison of Gibson and Fletcher at the same age. Fergie saw something in the young Scot that precious few others did, and kept him in the squad until he was ready to make the step up to the first team. Now people are starting to associate United's stuttering last few games with his absence.

[Jicked]

For what its worth Andy Reid is 49 points in Fantasy Football midfielders at the moment (4 points off 3rd position) while Darren Gibson has a grand total of 1. Even taking into account that Fantasy Football isn't the gospel according to football, this alone tells you all anyone needs to know about how both players are getting on at the moment.



My God, someone using fantasy football stats to argue a players case, must be a new low.

I don't understand the relevance of talking about Gibson in relation to Reid. Andy Reid by his own admission isn't a central midfield player, he certainly isn't a big defensive strong midfield player in the mold of Gibson, so of course Gibson will be in ahead of him, it's like arguing that Reid should be in ahead of Kieran Westwood in the squad.

It might be nice to play with a central midfielder who could spread passes around with the class Reid occasionally does, however it would mean changing our system considerably to allow a central midfieleder that sort of time and protection, as opposed to the way we play now with the two centre mids basically playing as centre halfs when we don't have the ball. Reid wouldn't be able to play both roles. So is Reid worth changing the system for? In my view not at all. He's been in before for us and hardly set the world alight, and though he's doing well for Sunderland at the moment he hasn't had an illustrious club career and is probably not good enough to boss the midfield against France in a couple of weeks. For that reason I would keep the defensive system and play more technically limited players in his place.

Could he play in either of the wide spots? Well it would be a possibility, unlike him playing centre mid. However because of the way we play I wouldn't go with him. With two defensive central midfield players, we need to play with pacey wingers who will get up and down the line a lot more than Reid would. Reid would be able to play the ball around from deep better than say McGeady, and is certainly a better passer of the ball.

But if Reid isn't the energetic winger up and down the line in the way Lawrence, Hunt or McGeady, then we'd have a big problem. With two defensive players in the middle the front two would be compeletly isolated by the lack of width. Yes Reid could supply them with better balls from deeper positions, but in international football with only two isolated front men to watch their chances would surely be limited even with that better supply.
By having two industrious wingers willing to get up and down the line all day we make up for the fact we don't have anything coming offensively from the middle two (because our defensive problems we need their defensive powers a lot more). Play Reid as one of the wide players and you effectively are hoping he can pick balls through an international defence for two strikers against four defenders not being challenged or moved around by other offensive players. It wouldn't work. For Reid to work in that position you'd need to have more creativity in the middle to offer some other options for the front men and to trouble the opposition defence, which means you'd have to sacrifice playing two defensive players sitting deep, which means sacrificing the system that finally has us getting results.

Tl;dr: Andy Reid isn't a central midfield player so comparing him to Gibson is pointless, and if you want to play him as a wide player you'd have to change the system hugely to make up for the fact he would play deeper and slower than other potential wingers, meaning we'd have to have a more adventourous central midfield.

Oh, and being a top manager means recognising that it's not always about putting out the 11 most talented individuals or finding a way to shoehorn a creative player in to starting line up.

[paul_oshea]

Jicked, they are all valid points, well constructed and descriptive, however even if hunt and lawrence got injured, can you see him bringing Andy in then, as we dont, and I stress we dont, have anyone else in that mould you described above. I still wouldn't see him bringing reid in.

[Jicked]

No I don't think he would. I think he'd play Andy Keogh wide or even someone like Anto Stokes. Both would be able to get up and down the line in the way Trap wants and would stop the front two being isolated. If you brought Andy Reid in to one of the wide spots you'd have to change the two in the middle and the tactics in general, a big change to make in two play-off games. I think he'll have a look at Andy Reid/playing a different way in the new year, though I'd be surprised if its as effective as we currently are.

[paul_oshea]

No I don't think he would. I think he'd play Andy Keogh wide or even someone like Anto Stokes. Both would be able to get up and down the line in the way Trap wants and would stop the front two being isolated. If you brought Andy Reid in to one of the wide spots you'd have to change the two in the middle and the tactics in general, a big change to make in two play-off games. I think he'll have a look at Andy Reid/playing a different way in the new year, though I'd be surprised if its as effective as we currently are.

I meant to put in andy keogh above too. The point i was making is, if the system is unplayable given the fact that those players are not available, would he plaster over the cracks with someone else? I think he would, even to the detriment of the team.

Even changing things around slightly given all of the above, with injuries etc, he could accomodate reid playing, but I dont think he would.

Time will only tell if he will experiment with Andy in a friendly. He has a great opportunity to put all of this to bed and stop the conspirators, by doing this in the new year. Lets hope he does it, as there is a lot of build up of negativity in the media at the moment(smoewhat justified given his strange hypocritical decisions at times) when it should be all positive looking forward to the play-offs optimistically.

[Greenbod]

Jicked your argument would hold some weight if our current midfield options, Whelan, Andrews, Gibson or Miller were particularly good at the roles set out for them.......they're not. In my opinion they're all relatively mediocre at what they do. In fact Andy Reid could do at least as good a job in that role if instructed to. (It would be a waste of his talent but he could do it.)

Now the added advantage you would get with Reid is, should the ball somehow fall to his feet, as it does occasionally with Whelan and Andrews, he would more often than not find an irish shirt with a pass, as opposed to our current midfield who more often than not find the opposition. The other impact of this is of course that Whelan/Andrews are required to do more defending than Reid would because the opposition have the ball more often than they would if we had a midfielder passing to green shirts!

[SuperDave]

Jicked your argument would hold some weight if our current midfield options, Whelan, Andrews, Gibson or Miller were particularly good at the roles set out for them.......they're not. In my opinion they're all relatively mediocre at what they do. In fact Andy Reid could do at least as good a job in that role if instructed to. (It would be a waste of his talent but he could do it.)

Now the added advantage you would get with Reid is, should the ball somehow fall to his feet, as it does occasionally with Whelan and Andrews, he would more often than not find an irish shirt with a pass, as opposed to our current midfield who more often than not find the opposition. The other impact of this is of course that Whelan/Andrews are required to do more defending than Reid would because the opposition have the ball more often than they would if we had a midfielder passing to green shirts!

Whelan and Andrews aren't the only ones who give the ball away you know... just because you have one player who doesn't give the ball away isn't suddenly going to turn your team into Hungary 54 Mk II (and see how it worked for them, anyway)

[Den Perry]

Jicked your argument would hold some weight if our current midfield options, Whelan, Andrews, Gibson or Miller were particularly good at the roles set out for them.......they're not. In my opinion they're all relatively mediocre at what they do. In fact Andy Reid could do at least as good a job in that role if instructed to. (It would be a waste of his talent but he could do it.)

Now the added advantage you would get with Reid is, should the ball somehow fall to his feet, as it does occasionally with Whelan and Andrews, he would more often than not find an irish shirt with a pass, as opposed to our current midfield who more often than not find the opposition. The other impact of this is of course that Whelan/Andrews are required to do more defending than Reid would because the opposition have the ball more often than they would if we had a midfielder passing to green shirts!

I'm a big fan of Trap.However, I just cannot understand how Andy can be left out of the SQUAD?As Greenbod said above, its not as if Whelan and Andrews are that good at playing "defensively". How many clean shhets have we kept in the campaign when those two have been playing together?

Nonetheless, if Trap wants to start with the midfielders he has been using, fair enough. However, if we need a goal desperately against France, not having the option of bringing Reid on to change the game could be the rock our qualification bid perishes on.

[Colbert Report]

I don't understand why Trap does not see Reid as a "central midfield" player. Centre mid is his best position! I get the point about having to sacrifice having two defensive midfielders in order to accomodate him playing left wing, in order to make up for his lack of speed.

Andy Reid's greatest advantage is his passing vision, especially with long diagonal balls out to the wingers. Why not have him on the bench, then when we need a goal in the away leg we can bring him on either in the hole behind Keane and Doyle or just make a straight swap for either Andrews or Gibson?

[LFCSixty/Eighty]

My God, someone using fantasy football stats to argue a players case, must be a new low.

I don't understand the relevance of talking about Gibson in relation to Reid. Andy Reid by his own admission isn't a central midfield player, he certainly isn't a big defensive strong midfield player in the mold of Gibson, so of course Gibson will be in ahead of him, it's like arguing that Reid should be in ahead of Kieran Westwood in the squad

Firstly I stated that Fantasy Football stats aren't gospel but they can give you an accurate enough guide to how well a player is playing over an extended period, as they record how he is contributing to his team, whether that be by time spent on the pitch, assists and goals etc.

Regardless of whether you want to judge him using this method, watching him playing or using the signs of the zodiac, Andy Reid is doing very nicely indeed.

Darren Gibson on the other hand is not, and I don't care if he's in the Man Utd or Grimsby squad, if he's not playing first team football, he's not ready to play international football. By Trappatoni including him in the squad he thinks he is.

It would be doing Gibson a disservice to ask play him in the next 2 matches given his would not be match fit and whatever his reasoning (loyalty, systems formation etc) this definitely falls into the 'little details' that Trappatoni keeps reminding us that are so vital and which could ultimately cost us qualification.

By the way, your point that asking for him to be put in ahead of Gibson would be like arguing that he should be in ahead of Kieran Westwood in the squad is laughable. Andy Reid HAS played centre midfield during his career, even for us against Germany at home, where, if I remember correctly he did very well. At the very least own up to that being a ridiculous comment.

[Stuttgart88]

I see Reid as being just as good in the middle as out wide, but Reid himself said recently that he doesn't see himself as central midfielder.

I'd have him in the squad any day of the week myself. Is he really any worse than Duffer or McGeady at tracking back?

[geysir]

It's kinda ironic that two vital players in the next games are Whelan and Andrews.
I would not have any hope should one of them get injured and was replaced by Gibson or Miller.

[paul_oshea]

It's kinda ironic that two vital players in the next games are Whelan and Andrews.
I would not have any hope should one of them get injured and was replaced by Gibson or what's his name.

Andy Reid?

[Noelys Guitar]

Reid switched from the left to central midfield for Sunderland after Jones got sent off on Saturday. And he dominated in a game of 10 against 11.

[osarusan]

Jicked your argument would hold some weight if our current midfield options, Whelan, Andrews, Gibson or Miller were particularly good at the roles set out for them.......they're not. In my opinion they're all relatively mediocre at what they do. In fact Andy Reid could do at least as good a job in that role if instructed to. (It would be a waste of his talent but he could do it.)


This, for me, is the main reason against the argument that Reid will disrupt the balance of the team. Keith Andrews does little but watch the game pass him by. Whelan does get involved, but Andrews produces nothing (and more to the point, fails to stifle anything). So if Reid were in his place, he could not do the job Andrews doesn't do, but he can actually pass the ball well too.

I keep thinking about this scenario - we draw 0-0 in Dublin, but concede early in Paris. With 15 mins to go, the French have retreated and we have a lot of the ball, and the territory up to about 40 yards from their goal (Now I don't think it is an impossible situation, one of the more likely scenarios tbh).
This is a situation where we need a player who can put deliveries into the box. And I think Reid can do that better than anybody else available to us at the moment.

I think that Trapattoni's tactics and squad selection (relatively successful though they have been) suggest that he can envisage no situation in which he wants a passer of the ball on the field. And I think that is a mistake.

[LFCSixty/Eighty]

Jicked you obviously have forgotten the night Ireland played Germany in October 2007 so I thought I'd remind you of a selection of some of the comments people from Foot.ie posted in review of the match...

Let me state again just in case you weren't listening, that Andy Reid played in centre midfield that night.....

Andy Reid was nothing short of brilliant tonight. Controlled the entire field of play, everything we had went through him. Why didn't he play against Slovakia again?

Like watching Liam Brady in his prime. Brilliant performance from Reid.

Reid 10 - absolutely unreal. he looked knackered by the end but he played the best game of any player i've seen for ireland since one Roy Keane left town.

Although Reid was good I think the only reason he seemed so earth shattering is that we have had a lack of a good midfielder for so long.

reids passing was great tonite but it always is.

Anyway, there were 3 or 4 passes in a row from Reid out to the right wing that were simply amazing.

reid was excellent tonight. he ran himself ragged which was clear when they showed a close up of him at the end of the match.

Andy Reid was excellent

Andy Reid was immense

Andy Reid was top class tonight really showed his passing ability.

Well Andy Reid should from now on be one of the first names on the teamsheet. He's the only player in midfield than can pass the ball and be creative with it. Hopefully get Duff back for the WC qualifiers.

Reid was exellent - his passing was top class

Reid was excellent

Reid carried the midfield going forward as we had two wingers who couldn't beat snow off a rope and a midfield partner who can't pass the ball longer than 5 yards.

Andy Reid was awesome, first touch brilliant and he lifts the head to see what is around him. Man of the match by a mile!

Reid aside, our midfield is full of hoofers and cloggers, our defence is not much better.......

Okay, maybe thats more than a 'selection' I got a bit carried away seeing all the positive comments that had been left for his performance.

Anyway, I hope that clarifies it for you that he CAN play centre midfield

[geysir]

Andy Reid?
Miller.

[paul_oshea]

Miller.

I know ;)

[eaststand85]

Andy Reid's Dad was on Pat Kenny's radio show this morning. Thought he came across very well as he spoke of how patriotic Andy was and how disappointed he was not to be playing etc.

Edit: Sorry, should point out he was on talking about something else entirely (some scheme he's involved in to help residents of Fatima Mansions) and wasn't doing a Stephen Ireland's Dad on it, Kenny just felt obliged to ask him about his son and the ongoing issue of his omission from the Ireland squad.

[DeLorean]

Andy Reid by his own admission isn't a central midfield player


Reid himself said recently that he doesn't see himself as central midfielder

I hadn't heard this at all. It's a kind of strange thing for him to say. I knew he did his best work down the left for Forest alright, where he was outstanding by all accounts.

[Jicked]

Jicked you obviously have forgotten the night Ireland played Germany in October 2007 so I thought I'd remind you of a selection of some of the comments people from Foot.ie posted in review of the match...

Let me state again just in case you weren't listening, that Andy Reid played in centre midfield that night.....


That's great, but again you've missed my point (also, that game was a effectively a friendly, played over two years ago). Even if you do want to put Andy Reid in the centre midfield spot in this current Irish side, he would play in a very different way to how Gisbon/Andrews/Whelan do now. We don't look to them for creativity, we look for one to be a screen in front of the defence shadowing whoever has the ball, the other one drops back and almost plays as a centre half. Is Andy Reid really that type of player?

No, he's clearly not (interestingly that game against Germany was played out like a friendly, and a few of those comments note how knackered Reid was after it, would he be able to harry and hustle for 90 mins closing down everything). Yes he's very good with the ball at his feet, and that is a great attribute to have. However we've tried using that attribute of his in the past and went through a terrible run of form. Now we're sacrificing that instead opting for two defensive central midfield players and putting all our offence in giving the ball out wide and hoping Duff/McGeady/Hunt/Lawrence can hassle defences enough to create one or two chances a game for the front two.

And it works.

I'd be all for Andy Reid in to centre mid or out wide if he could play either role (the dogged, defensive, all-action centre mid or the up-and-down the line winger, constantly looking to beat men and get up to support the front two). He doesn't play either role. So we then have the choice of playing him anyway and changing the system (and go back to the type of football we played in the previous 6 years) or play Andy Reid anyway in the current system, and watch him spray beautiful balls from deep for 90 minutes to a very isolated front two getting no offensive support from the two centre mids doing their effective job by holding their positions defensively and keeping our shape.

[SuperDave]

450 posts in the first 20 months of this thread

then reid does his thing in mainz (which incidentally receives no coverage on this thread at the time, there being no posts from 16/5/08 to 18/11/08) and in the next 12 months we have 800 more posts extolling the virtues of the magnificent reid.

absence, fonder etc etc. Reid is not a panacea for all of our ills. Indeed, he is not one for very many of them.

[I would have him in the squad but fail to see what all the fuss is about save usual journalist agendas]

[DeLorean]

Jicked- I understand the points you are making and obviously Trap feels the exact same way as you. I think everybody understands the system at this stage. The problem some of us have though is that although Whelan and Andrews have a precise, well defined role, that doesn't mean that they are carrying it out particularly well. To be honest I'm willing to accept it at this stage, at least for now, but I don't think it's ideal and I do think Reid would improve things in there, even in an unfamiliar role.

[mjpcc]

450 posts in the first 20 months of this thread

then reid does his thing in mainz (which incidentally receives no coverage on this thread at the time, there being no posts from 16/5/08 to 18/11/08) and in the next 12 months we have 800 more posts extolling the virtues of the magnificent reid.

absence, fonder etc etc. Reid is not a panacea for all of our ills. Indeed, he is not one for very many of them.

[I would have him in the squad but fail to see what all the fuss is about save usual journalist agendas]

I certainly would agree with you. Trap has been proved right on a number of issues in my opinion. Look at the hue and cry about omitting Steve Finnan - injured again at the weekend and S. Reid - not even on the bench at the weekend.

If he included A. Reid in the squad there would be ferocious media demand for his inclusion. It would disrupt a settled squad that did so well against Italy.

Plenty of time to experiment (win or lose) after the French games.

Then I hope to see all three involved and some major experimentation to build the best possible team, hopefully for WC2010, but if not for 2012.

[Scram]

450 posts in the first 20 months of this thread

then reid does his thing in mainz (which incidentally receives no coverage on this thread at the time, there being no posts from 16/5/08 to 18/11/08) and in the next 12 months we have 800 more posts extolling the virtues of the magnificent reid.

absence, fonder etc etc. Reid is not a panacea for all of our ills. Indeed, he is not one for very many of them.

[I would have him in the squad but fail to see what all the fuss is about save usual journalist agendas]

So what??? Are you the ONE Irish “punter” that says that Trap is right to leave Reid out???

Or, are you saying that an “Emperor has no clothes” approach should be taken and no comments made about this ridiculous omission?

ps. I am always amused when a poster asks why a football topic is being discussed at length on a football forum…eh…D’uh!!!

[Jicked]

No, there's just an awful lot of us saying his omission isn't ridiculous, and looking at the actual way the team plays to justify that.

[Noelys Guitar]

Andy Reid's Dad was on Pat Kenny's radio show this morning. Thought he came across very well as he spoke of how patriotic Andy was and how disappointed he was not to be playing etc.

Edit: Sorry, should point out he was on talking about something else entirely (some scheme he's involved in to help residents of Fatima Mansions) and wasn't doing a Stephen Ireland's Dad on it, Kenny just felt obliged to ask him about his son and the ongoing issue of his omission from the Ireland squad.

Reid's dad and his uncles used to play in various 7-a-sides around the south side of Dublin in the 70's/80's as a family team. Played against them in Harold's Cross. We were robbed 6-0 if I remember rightly. I took a peno that ended up in Rathmines.

[SuperDave]

So what??? Are you the ONE Irish “punter” that says that Trap is right to leave Reid out???

Or, are you saying that an “Emperor has no clothes” approach should be taken and no comments made about this ridiculous omission?

ps. I am always amused when a poster asks why a football topic is being discussed at length on a football forum…eh…D’uh!!!

Lets keep this on football and leave the ad hominems for the playground.

My point is simply that Andy Reid was obviously considered a squad player before his exclusion, and that no mention of his being on the bench and not playing a part either against Georgia or Montenegro was made on this thread until the truth came out some time later. It is amazing to see how someone who was in reality a bit part player who had one good game against a German side who needed only a point to qualify (and clearly played for that point and would probably have qualified regardless) suddenly becomes a world beating genius as a result of his exclusion.

And as I said, if things were different, I would have him in the squad (and possibly the team but far from definitely) but Trap is the manager and Trap is getting results. If he thinks it is right, I am right behind him.

[Greenbod]

[QUOTE=SuperDave;1263852] suddenly becomes a world beating genius as a result of his exclusion.

QUOTE]

Nobody is claiming he's a world beating genius.......just better than Miller, Gibson, Whelan and Andrew's that's all.

You agree with trap...good for you....you're in good company.

[SuperDave]

suddenly becomes a world beating genius as a result of his exclusion.



Nobody is claiming he's a world beating genius.......just better than Miller, Gibson, Whelan and Andrew's that's all.

You agree with trap...good for you....you're in good company.

I was exagerrating. My point is no-one made an issue of it when he was in the squad but not playing against Montenegro and Georgia, nor even against Cyprus, when he was on the bench, which was a full month after the Mainz incident (!), because no-one saw his non-playing as being that big an issue or seemed worried about the team missing a creative influence. It's not like he was injured or anything because as this page (http://www.soccerbase.com/players_details.sd?playerid=23629) shows he was playing regularly for Sunderland.

Edit: I have to say I am surprised because I didn't remember that he was on the bench for the Cyprus game. I thought all along Trap was only excluding him for footballing reasons and this seems to back it up!

[Jicked]

Edit: I have to say I am surprised because I didn't remember that he was on the bench for the Cyprus game. I thought all along Trap was only excluding him for footballing reasons and this seems to back it up!


Exactly and when Trap talks about needing players with a happy demeanor he's also referring to that game. He left Reid on the bench, probably for the footballing reasons I've mentioned above. The game went pretty much to plan against a good Cypriot side, scored early, settle the whole game down and not give them any chance of getting back in to it. The team were slaughtered for the performance for some reason, Cyprus only threatened once late on when they had a shot charged down (compare that to how they tore certain teams apart in this campaign!)

During the game the big screens would zoom in on Reid sitting on the bench looking none too happy. As the game went on at 1-0 they repeatedly did this and Reid seemed to get grumpier looking. The fans started responding, turning on the players despite a fine performance/result, the majority were of the opinion that Cyprus were a team we should have beaten comfortably and with Reid in the side would have hammered them 3 or 4-0.
In fact Cyprus were a pretty good side, we were fairly comfortable in keeping them at bay (remember what they did to Italy twice in this campaign, and scored 4 against Bulgaria) yet because we didn't score 3 or 4, or dominate possession people thought we were hammered and outclassed despite everything going to the gameplan pretty much.