Andy Reid(b 1982)

[Emmet7]

Reid was probably dropped for being a fatty with a beer belly who liked a drink and a late night sing song.

To be honest, no-one here has managed Andy Reid and we don't know what he is like to work with. By the sounds of it he cannot take instructions such as to go to bed when asked.

If you are a manager and you have a player who won't take instructions, it would make your job a lot more difficult.

And I still stand by my view that with Reid in the middle of the park, there would be a gaping hole through which other teams would attack.

Put simply and has already been said, he is not Trap's kind of player. Trap's kind of player is strong, athletic, agressive, defensive, puts other teams and players under pressure when they have the ball. None of that comes to mind when you think of Andy Reid. He's just not Trap's kind of player, just like Shevchenko wasn't Mourinho's type of player or Paul McGrath wasn't Alex Ferguson's type of player. Even though McGrath and Shevchenko are/were brillant players, they didn't fit into the system Mourinho and Ferguson had in mind.

Put it another way, if Trap was managing a club team, Andy Reid's ass would have been booted out the door long ago for questioning the manager.

Finally, if Reid has nothing to apologise for then clearly he has been left out of the team for tactical reasons and doesn't fit into Trap's system.

[SkStu]

Reid was probably dropped for being a fatty with a beer belly who liked a drink and a late night sing song.

To be honest, no-one here has managed Andy Reid and we don't know what he is like to work with. By the sounds of it he cannot take instructions such as to go to bed when asked.

If you are a manager and you have a player who won't take instructions, it would make your job a lot more difficult.

And I still stand by my view that with Reid in the middle of the park, there would be a gaping hole through which other teams would attack.

Put simply and has already been said, he is not Trap's kind of player. Trap's kind of player is strong, athletic, agressive, defensive, puts other teams and players under pressure when they have the ball. None of that comes to mind when you think of Andy Reid. He's just not Trap's kind of player, just like Shevchenko wasn't Mourinho's type of player or Paul McGrath wasn't Alex Ferguson's type of player. Even though McGrath and Shevchenko are/were brillant players, they didn't fit into the system Mourinho and Ferguson had in mind.

Put it another way, if Trap was managing a club team, Andy Reid's ass would have been booted out the door long ago for questioning the manager.

Finally, if Reid has nothing to apologise for then clearly he has been left out of the team for tactical reasons and doesn't fit into Trap's system.

huge flaw there - come on, how can we take this poster seriously... :rolleyes:

:)

[Emmet7]

huge flaw there - come on, how can we take this poster seriously... :rolleyes:

:)

Grand, tell me the last time Reid put in a magnificant display of defensive midfield play either for Sunderland or Ireland, in the mould of Roy Keane, Lee Carsley and so on.

Show me the evidence he is able to defend properly. The first trait Trap looks for in a defender or midfielder is they can defend. Show me where Reid matches that trait. If not then clearly he is not a Trap type of player. He might be a Maradona type of player or a Ferguson type of player or a Barcelona type of player but he is not a Trap type of player and does not fit into to a Trap system, the same system that has won 7 scuddeto, 1 European Cup and so on.

Bulgaria had a creative player just as good as Andy Reid, his name was Stillian Petrov. Bulgaria got trounced in games against Cyprus and Italy. Is that not proof enough that Trap was right after all?

I've pretty much had enough of this thread now, it's getting repetitive, people saying Andy Reid is the greatest player the world has seen while ignoring the fact he has serious deficiencies in defence.

[Junior]

I've pretty much had enough of this thread now, it's getting repetitive, people saying Andy Reid is the greatest player the world has seen while ignoring the fact he has serious deficiencies in defence.

Emmet - You are seeing what you want to see. No poster has come close to stating that.

Though you are correct you (and others) have made the same points over and over again.

[SkStu]

Grand, tell me the last time Reid put in a magnificant display of defensive midfield play either for Sunderland or Ireland, in the mould of Roy Keane, Lee Carsley and so on.

Show me the evidence he is able to defend properly. The first trait Trap looks for in a defender or midfielder is they can defend. Show me where Reid matches that trait. If not then clearly he is not a Trap type of player. He might be a Maradona type of player or a Ferguson type of player or a Barcelona type of player but he is not a Trap type of player and does not fit into to a Trap system, the same system that has won 7 scuddeto, 1 European Cup and so on.

Bulgaria had a creative player just as good as Andy Reid, his name was Stillian Petrov. Bulgaria got trounced in games against Cyprus and Italy. Is that not proof enough that Trap was right after all?

I've pretty much had enough of this thread now, it's getting repetitive, people saying Andy Reid is the greatest player the world has seen while ignoring the fact he has serious deficiencies in defence.

whoosh!

[DeLorean]

it's getting repetitive

I finally agree with something you've posted. If you just copy and paste your points it would save you a lot of time. How hard can this be to understand....

-We know Andy Reid isn't a great defensive midfielder
-We don't demand that he has a place on the starting XI
-We feel that it's mental that he's not in the squad as an option

Something tells me you still won't get it though.

[Emmet7]

I finally agree with something you've posted. If you just copy and paste your points it would save you a lot of time. How hard can this be to understand....

-We know Andy Reid isn't a great defensive midfielder
-We don't demand that he has a place on the starting XI
-We feel that it's mental that he's not in the squad as an option

Something tells me you still won't get it though.

The only place to put him would be to take off a central midfielder and move perhaps Lawrence or Hunt to centre midfield, although I am not sure either are proven in that role, although if you put a gun to my head, I would say Lawrence would do better at centre midfield than Hunt.

I still think we would be vulnerable if an Irish attack breaks down.

However, I am firmly of the belief and this has been proven throughout the campaign, that Ireland are most dangerous when the ball comes across the box, either high from setpieces for our defenders to attack or mid level height for Doyle and Keane. Robbie I don't think has the speed or strength to run onto balls and hold off forwards like Torres is able to do. He's lost a yard or two of pace in the last couple of years and it probably the reason he didn't succeed at Liverpool.

Our two goals against Italy in Croker were from setpieces and from players such as Hunt and Duff running at defenders and being fouled. Setpieces are vital to our gameplan and will probably be the way we beat the French. Andy Reid is more stand-offish and doesn't really take players on, hence fewer set pieces.

The goal in Bari, a nod down from big Folan is typical of a Robbie Keane goal. He is excellent from a ball which breaks and has scored many great goals that way.

Our mistake early on in Bari was to play the ball into the feet of Doyle and Keane. That was easy to deal with for the Italian defenders.

[Greenbod]

although if you put a gun to my head,


Somebody..........please...anybody?

[geysir]

Infamy where infamy is due.
Emmet has achieved what I thought to be impossible, he has dethroned EG and become the new prince of long winded, repetitive banality.

[Den Perry]

Somebody..........please...anybody?


ROFL ...brilliant,

[paul_oshea]

Den, did you really roll on the floor though? If so did you hurt yourself?

[SuperDave]

The only place to put him would be to take off a central midfielder and move perhaps Lawrence or Hunt to centre midfield, although I am not sure either are proven in that role, although if you put a gun to my head, I would say Lawrence would do better at centre midfield than Hunt.

I still think we would be vulnerable if an Irish attack breaks down.

However, I am firmly of the belief and this has been proven throughout the campaign, that Ireland are most dangerous when the ball comes across the box, either high from setpieces for our defenders to attack or mid level height for Doyle and Keane. Robbie I don't think has the speed or strength to run onto balls and hold off forwards like Torres is able to do. He's lost a yard or two of pace in the last couple of years and it probably the reason he didn't succeed at Liverpool.

Our two goals against Italy in Croker were from setpieces and from players such as Hunt and Duff running at defenders and being fouled. Setpieces are vital to our gameplan and will probably be the way we beat the French. Andy Reid is more stand-offish and doesn't really take players on, hence fewer set pieces.

The goal in Bari, a nod down from big Folan is typical of a Robbie Keane goal. He is excellent from a ball which breaks and has scored many great goals that way.

Our mistake early on in Bari was to play the ball into the feet of Doyle and Keane. That was easy to deal with for the Italian defenders.

Agree with parts of this. We didn't need Andy Reid on the pitch to score late goals against Italy in either game did we?

Though I would have him in the squad.

[livehead1]

I think we should sack Trappatoni even if we get to the world cup. He clearly doesn't have a clue. We need somebody like David O'Leary.

[Den Perry]

Den, did you really roll on the floor though? If so did you hurt yourself?


Yes and Yes

[Emmet7]

I think we should sack Trappatoni even if we get to the world cup. He clearly doesn't have a clue. We need somebody like David O'Leary.

Yep, we definately need another former Irish soccer legend who's career in club management has been at best mediocre.

Sack one of the greatest managers in European Soccer history, for Dave O'Leary, makes sense alright.

Maybe we should bring back Stan while we are at it. When you think of it, he wasn't all that bad.

[livehead1]

Yep, we definately need another former Irish soccer legend who's career in club management has been at best mediocre.

Sack one of the greatest managers in European Soccer history, for Dave O'Leary, makes sense alright.

Maybe we should bring back Stan while we are at it. When you think of it, he wasn't all that bad.

I thought if anyone might be a taker, it'd be you ;)

[zinedineontour]

Grand, tell me the last time Reid put in a magnificant display of defensive midfield play either for Sunderland or Ireland, in the mould of Roy Keane, Lee Carsley and so on.

Show me the evidence he is able to defend properly. The first trait Trap looks for in a defender or midfielder is they can defend. Show me where Reid matches that trait. If not then clearly he is not a Trap type of player. He might be a Maradona type of player or a Ferguson type of player or a Barcelona type of player but he is not a Trap type of player and does not fit into to a Trap system, the same system that has won 7 scuddeto, 1 European Cup and so on.

Bulgaria had a creative player just as good as Andy Reid, his name was Stillian Petrov. Bulgaria got trounced in games against Cyprus and Italy. Is that not proof enough that Trap was right after all?

I've pretty much had enough of this thread now, it's getting repetitive, people saying Andy Reid is the greatest player the world has seen while ignoring the fact he has serious deficiencies in defence.

Your argument is flawed from the beginning. We dont have a player like Keane nowhere near it at the moment and carsley is not the answer everyone thinks he is. He cant get into a limited birmingham side at the moment. We dont need two midfielders who cant pass the ball one is enough so in that case andrews should be dropped. Reid controlled the sunderland spurs game on saturday and from someone with a sunderland season ticket he has been immense this season. The improvement he has made has been brilliant. He is more than just a flair player that lad puts in a good tackle and would offer better options than hunt or mcgeady on the wing if you have a problem with him in the middle. I would actually think he would work well of a single striker in paris in a 5 man midfield.

Petrov was bulgarias best player in the qualifiers and the game against italy in italy he was the only one who looked decent he was far from the problem for bulgaria.

Yeah the way some of gone on in the press andy reid is the messiah which he is not but he is far better than a lot of players in the squad and deserves to at least be on the bench.

[Emmet7]

Do you accept he is defensively flawed and hence a liability in that department whatever about going forward.

I keep getting pulled back to this thread to answer people who say Reid is the best player we have going forward or creatively. I believe Damian Duff is just as good at creating chances as is Hunt and Lawrence.

Hunt, Duff and Lawrence are proven at defending as well, with Duff playing in defence for Newcastle.

I don't think Reid is better than the wide players we have. And defensively I don't think he's better than the central midfielders we have. That's pretty much it.

[paul_oshea]

But emmet, what do you think of Reid as a player?!

[FatGav]

Do you accept he is defensively flawed and hence a liability in that department whatever about going forward.

I keep getting pulled back to this thread to answer people who say Reid is the best player we have going forward or creatively. I believe Damian Duff is just as good at creating chances as is Hunt and Lawrence.

Hunt, Duff and Lawrence are proven at defending as well, with Duff playing in defence for Newcastle.

I don't think Reid is better than the wide players we have. And defensively I don't think he's better than the central midfielders we have. That's pretty much it.

Valid point, but surely there's room for Reid in a 23 man squad and on a bench. With 20 minutes to go, needing a goal, I'd love Ireland to have someone who is proficient with the dead ball and I don't think that any of our current players are as good as him on that front.

[DeLorean]

But emmet, what do you think of Reid as a player?!

You know he's actually going to answer that don't you!!:D

[Greenbod]

But emmet, what do you think of Reid as a player?!

You B***ox;)

[geysir]

By now Emmet should be 1/2 way through the draft of his reply, only another 40 lines to go.

[zinedineontour]

Do you accept he is defensively flawed and hence a liability in that department whatever about going forward.

I keep getting pulled back to this thread to answer people who say Reid is the best player we have going forward or creatively. I believe Damian Duff is just as good at creating chances as is Hunt and Lawrence.

Hunt, Duff and Lawrence are proven at defending as well, with Duff playing in defence for Newcastle.

I don't think Reid is better than the wide players we have. And defensively I don't think he's better than the central midfielders we have. That's pretty much it.

So what your saying is you would prefer to have two central midfielders who play very little part in the game and are rarely able to pass a ball forward then one of those and a lad who can actually dictate the game from midfield. Look at arsenal fabregas aint a great tackler, manu with scholes, liverpool with gerrard, villa with pertrov, everton with cahill ...

[Emmet7]

Ah right, yee were trying to wind me up, yee don't really believe Reid should be back in the squad.

I'll admit, had me going there for a while, thought yee were beng serious about Reid.

[paul_oshea]

Emmet :rolleyes:

We know you're not that stupid.

[weldoninhio]

Just a question to raise a little debate. If/When Ireland fail to qualify, and if Reid is brought into the team for friendlys etc and runs amok, as he is doing for Sunderland, controlling the game etc. Will the likes of Emmet7 come back and eat his words?? Or will he be in here praising Trappaponi, saying how he made Reid hungry to play again?

The play-off is 2 cup finals and the most in form players should be picked. Its not like Reid is a new recruit and would have to gel with the players, he is the mot in-form Irish player in the world right now.

My prediction is we lose against France, have a poor start to the 2012 EC qualifiers and Trap fecks off, leaving us in the proverbial.

[Crosby87]

Just a question to raise a little debate. If/When Ireland fail to qualify, and if Reid is brought into the team for friendlys etc and runs amok, as he is doing for Sunderland, controlling the game etc. Will the likes of Emmet7 come back and eat his words?? Or will he be in here praising Trappaponi, saying how he made Reid hungry to play again?

The play-off is 2 cup finals and the most in form players should be picked. Its not like Reid is a new recruit and would have to gel with the players, he is the mot in-form Irish player in the world right now.

My prediction is we lose against France, have a poor start to the 2012 EC qualifiers and Trap fecks off, leaving us in the proverbial.

:eek:
Do you by any chance write tax forms for the IRS?

[Alf Honn]

My prediction is we lose against France, have a poor start to the 2012 EC qualifiers and Trap fecks off, leaving us in the proverbial.

---

Hold that thought. This may well be the bravest and wisest prediction for a long time.

[Uncle_Joe]

My prediction is we lose against France, have a poor start to the 2012 EC qualifiers and Trap fecks off, leaving us in the proverbial.


This may well be the bravest and wisest prediction for a long time.

Losing against France isnt that brave a prediction. I think everyone can see that France are the favourites, but we still have a good chance of getting through with 2 draws.

Having a poor start to the 2012 EC qualifiers. Now that is a brave prediction considering we dont know who are in our group or what order we will play the higher ranked teams in our group.

Trap fecks off, leaving us in the proverbial. With Steve Staunton as our manager, Paul Jewell being championed as his successor and a shallow pool of talent to choose from before Trap arrived, its not that big a leap to say we will be in the poo when he leaves.

[Den Perry]

Do you accept he is defensively flawed and hence a liability in that department whatever about going forward.

I keep getting pulled back to this thread to answer people who say Reid is the best player we have going forward or creatively. I believe Damian Duff is just as good at creating chances as is Hunt and Lawrence.

Hunt, Duff and Lawrence are proven at defending as well, with Duff playing in defence for Newcastle.

I don't think Reid is better than the wide players we have. And defensively I don't think he's better than the central midfielders we have. That's pretty much it.

To believe that Hunt is just as creative as Reid is downright ridiculous. Ok, he may create the odd chance, but usually wastes a number of decent crossing / passing opportunities before doing something worthwhile. In addition his touch is absolutely scandalous.

I also believe he is not so good defensively.Yes he will run back and run all day, but he is brainless and is liable to do anything.He gave away a ridiculous penalty for Hull a few weeks back, and I believe he is well capable of doing something similar again.

Having said that, he does offer something going forward, but should only be used from the bench

[northerncelt]

Doesnt look like anyone has posted this yet... Jonathan Pearces thoughts on the Reid situation. He seems reasonably confident we can get a result as well

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/8353705.stm

[tetsujin1979]

To believe that Hunt is just as creative as Reid is downright ridiculous. Ok, he may create the odd chance, but usually wastes a number of decent crossing / passing opportunities before doing something worthwhile. In addition his touch is absolutely scandalous.
According to the stats on premierleague.com, Hunt has 2 assists, this season, and Reid has 4. Reid has 12 bonus points, only Essien and Fabregas have more. Hunt only has 2. Overall, Reid contributes far more to a game than Hunt


Doesnt look like anyone has posted this yet... Jonathan Pearces thoughts on the Reid situation. He seems reasonably confident we can get a result as well

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/8353705.stm
Nice find northerncelt, from that article

It would be a crying shame if Irish fans didn't see him in the emerald green again. Remember his cracking long range strikes against Bulgaria and Cyprus in August 2004?Remember them?? I won almost €200 on them!

[Junior]

His range of long and short passing was astute and accurate. He had the strength to win block tackles and the turn of foot to avoid challenges too and he was desperately unlucky to finish on the losing side.

All round qualities and not just an attacking luxury in Pearces eyes? Emmet take note.


They could only draw with Bulgaria home and away, they were held to two 0-0 stalemates by Macedonia and although they did the double over the minnows Cyprus and Georgia, all four victories were by a solitary goal. They need more creativity.

Though not an entirely accurate article.....

[Stuttgart88]

I thought Hunt was really effective against Stoke, from the bits I saw. Some great crosses.

[SuperDave]

According to the stats on premierleague.com, Hunt has 2 assists, this season, and Reid has 4. Reid has 12 bonus points, only Essien and Fabregas have more. Hunt only has 2. Overall, Reid contributes far more to a game than Hunt


Nice find northerncelt, from that article
Remember them?? I won almost €200 on them!

How many minutes do each of them have? I'm not railing against you, but I'm sure Reid has quite a few more. And what were last season's stats?

I just want a broader comparison to compare them more reliably.

Also, the short memories on here are astounding. Hunt got an assist against Italy as did Lawrence, both our wingers, both from set pieces. Talking of Reid's set piece ability like it is something we don't have already is disingenuous.

[tetsujin1979]

How many minutes do each of them have? I'm not railing against you, but I'm sure Reid has quite a few more. And what were last season's stats?
Not sure about last season's stats, but according to fantasy.premierleague.com, Hunt has played 998 minutes, and Reid has played 743

[DeLorean]

How many minutes do each of them have? I'm not railing against you, but I'm sure Reid has quite a few more. And what were last season's stats?

I just want a broader comparison to compare them more reliably

Fantasy Football is called 'Fantasy' for a reason lads but just to humour ye (and myself:D) here are some stats (I also threw Lawrence into the mix).

2009/10
Reid (743 minutes - Goals 2 - Assists 4 - Bonus 12 - Pts 52)
Hunt (998 minutes - Goals 2 - Assists 2 - Bonus 2 - Pts 41)
Lawrence (446 minutes - Goals 0 - Assists 1 - Bonus 0 - Pts 41)

2008/09
Reid (1809 minutes - Goals 1 - Assists 5 - Bonus 12 - Pts 87)
Hunt (3314 minutes - Goals 5 - Assists 5 - Bonus 15 - Pts 131)*
Lawrence (1551 minutes - Goals 3 - Assists 4 - Bonus 9 - Pts 73)

*used Hunts stats from 2007/08 season seeing as he played in the Championship last year.

[Scram]

We would never have been in this position had Trappatoni let us play to our strengths, that is a fact and was clearly evidenced last night.

Quality footballers like Keane, Duff and Doyle in a team inhibited with restriction on midfielders going forward etc. is just wastage and now Duff and Doyle’s chances of playing in a World Cup are gone.

Anyone who sees any merit in having Darron Gibson come on instead of Andy Reid is a Muppet, pure and simple.

This campaign was lost in the qualifying group, one which we could so easily have won, and all because of Liam Brady demanding respect from Andy Reid. I hope Brady is never considered for the Irish job.

[Fixer82]

when did Brady demand respect from Reid?

surely it ultimately rests with Trap anyway

[Leeside Swagger]

We would never have been in this position had Trappatoni let us play to our strengths, that is a fact and was clearly evidenced last night.

Quality footballers like Keane, Duff and Doyle in a team inhibited with restriction on midfielders going forward etc. is just wastage and now Duff and Doyle’s chances of playing in a World Cup are gone.

Anyone who sees any merit in having Darron Gibson come on instead of Andy Reid is a Muppet, pure and simple.

This campaign was lost in the qualifying group, one which we could so easily have won, and all because of Liam Brady demanding respect from Andy Reid. I hope Brady is never considered for the Irish job.

Wouldn't agree with the first bit, no way we would have done so well without Trap. He built us a solid foundation based on a well organised defensive unit. Contrast this to where we were in the Stan days. This has developed throughout the campaign and now we seem to be able to attack teams without exposing ourselves at the back. If we had went gung ho from the beginning of the campaign we would have lost a few for sure.

[Duggie]

no time for this now lads. the lads did it for us that were on the pitch. debate for another day IMO.

[lionelhutz]

I must say I'm gutted to see this thread near the top of the Ireland forum (and yes I see the irony of me posting here and bumping it up again).

But after last night, I thought I'd come on here and see nothing but praise for the team and how they played cause they deserve nothing less. Lets just commend the lads for a magnificent performance and be proud to be Irish.

[Scram]

no time for this now lads. the lads did it for us that were on the pitch. debate for another day IMO.

The "lads" were let down by the management, pure and simple. A lack of respect for their abilities, their spirit and their determination.

The lads certainly did do it on the pitch, the question has to be where SOME of them the right lads to have on the pitch, and why where the right lads not ALLOWED to play to their abilities throughout qualification.

"Better than Stan" is not a yardstick on whch to measure managerial performance, surely?

[endabob1]

The "lads" were let down by the management, pure and simple. A lack of respect for their abilities, their spirit and their determination.

The lads certainly did do it on the pitch, the question has to be where SOME of them the right lads to have on the pitch, and why where the right lads not ALLOWED to play to their abilities throughout qualification.

"Better than Stan" is not a yardstick on whch to measure managerial performance, surely?

Madness, if we went out to play some attacking free flowing football we'd have been murdered, the last 10 minutes in Dublin are a good indication of this, we went after a goal and France hit us with pace on the break and could and possibly should have burried the tie there and then.
We were controled & measured in Paris attacked when we could and stopped them playing at pace.
To question the manager after a performance like that is very odd indeed.

[dr_peepee]

Look. Trapp deserves alot of credit ALOT OF CREDIT for the performance last night and the leaps since he was appointed.

However I've said numerous time that his lack of efforts in a plan B and, specifically, insulating his own plan from the effects of change, would cost us.

We lost two players through injury last night. I don't believe anyone in the country, on this board or anywhere else believes that Gibson was the next best Irish midfielder or like wise McShane at right full. I believe Gibson was the next best midfielder on the bench, Yes. I don't believe McShane was the next best right full on the bench though, so that's Trapps call. He obviously sees something I don't and that's his perogative.

The issue lies with the use of friendlies and exposure to irish players and options. Delap, Carsley, Andy Reid, a half fit Steven Reid (given there was no intention to start him anyway). What had Trapp seen of these since the start of the season to decide Gibson (not played since September) was the better option.

People have cited marginal decisions. The decision of McShane over Kelly would have been marginal at the time. Neither have truly convinced, but McShane has been prone for a long time and I can't have been the only one that looked back at the bench when he was warming up. If a limited selection don't convince surley you equal the exposure to both to find the best of a bad bunch. Maybe Trapp saw enough in Training. Maybe Kelly's worse in training than McShane. I do think though that Trapp ers too much on the side of consistency and that that was the deciding factor in McShane over Kelly.

That's my gripe with Trapp. Has been for a while. I thought we we excellent last night though. His plan A is beyond sound. I think he alone has allot to do with the emergence of Whelan and Andrews in that role and they both will finish their careers as better players having played under him. Didi Hamman reckoned he was a huge influence on his playing career after playing under him at Munich. I'm not knocking anything else he has brought to the table.

[rambler14]

Andy Reid had nothing to do with last nights game and his name should not be used in the same breath as last nights match. Eleven boys went out onto that pitch and by christ they walked off men.

[Scram]

Andy Reid had nothing to do with last nights game and his name should not be used in the same breath as last nights match. Eleven boys went out onto that pitch and by christ they walked off men.

:D:D Comical.

I'm sure Duffer, Dunne and Keane would be thrilled with being told they walked on to the pitch as boys.

[Scram]

Look. Trapp deserves alot of credit ALOT OF CREDIT for the performance last night and the leaps since he was appointed.

However I've said numerous time that his lack of efforts in a plan B and, specifically, insulating his own plan from the effects of change, would cost us.

We lost two players through injury last night. I don't believe anyone in the country, on this board or anywhere else believes that Gibson was the next best Irish midfielder or like wise McShane at right full. I believe Gibson was the next best midfielder on the bench, Yes. I don't believe McShane was the next best right full on the bench though, so that's Trapps call. He obviously sees something I don't and that's his perogative.

The issue lies with the use of friendlies and exposure to irish players and options. Delap, Carsley, Andy Reid, a half fit Steven Reid (given there was no intention to start him anyway). What had Trapp seen of these since the start of the season to decide Gibson (not played since September) was the better option.

People have cited marginal decisions. The decision of McShane over Kelly would have been marginal at the time. Neither have truly convinced, but McShane has been prone for a long time and I can't have been the only one that looked back at the bench when he was warming up. If a limited selection don't convince surley you equal the exposure to both to find the best of a bad bunch. Maybe Trapp saw enough in Training. Maybe Kelly's worse in training than McShane. I do think though that Trapp ers too much on the side of consistency and that that was the deciding factor in McShane over Kelly.

That's my gripe with Trapp. Has been for a while. I thought we we excellent last night though. His plan A is beyond sound. I think he alone has allot to do with the emergence of Whelan and Andrews in that role and they both will finish their careers as better players having played under him. Didi Hamman reckoned he was a huge influence on his playing career after playing under him at Munich. I'm not knocking anything else he has brought to the table.

Andy Reid instead of Gibson and ANYONE instead of Paul McShane…and it’s not being wise after the event, as soon as I saw McShane I buried my head in my hands.

I’m not criticizing any player here for their effort (before another Muppet starts talking about “heroes” etc.), I am criticising the ridiculous position that left us with Gibson and McShane as our options!

[macdermesser]

could the word "muppet" be starred? I'm sick of seeing it. That's my contribution. gutted