Andy Reid(b 1982)

[Emmet7]

With regard to Emmet's contention that Reid can't have been that influential at WHL yesterday because Spurs won, every single report I've heard or read about the game says the result was a travesty, only Gomes, the woodwork and Darrent Bent's profligacy keeping Spurs in the game. The opposite to when Spurs lost to Stoke after totally dominating. Stuff happens like that in football.

But you do accept his defending was poor for the Keane goal and probably the main cause of the goal, ie he didn't track back.

Some people who saw the full match commented on here that he wilted badly in the last 20 minutes.

I think he was out of position for the 2nd Tottenham goal too, he should have been more central.

I don't doubt Reid has something to offer going forward, unfortunately when it comes to defending that's where his problems seem to be. If we conceded two goals against the French in Croke Park, you can say goodbye to qualification. Keeping it tight in two-legged games is essential where away goals matter. When Reidy plays a game where he is outstanding in tracking back, defending, and breaking down the attacks of other teams, then Trap will soon be on the phone to him.

So in summary he did a lot of good against Tottenham, but defensively he wasn't up to scratch and that probably cancelled out the good. He didn't do enough defensively to earn a place in the squad imo.

[Stuttgart88]

I haven't seen it yet, only going on several media reports.

[SkStu]

Emmet, we are two goals down to the French with 45 minutes to go and we need to throw caution to the wind and go for it, we need two goals. You look at our bench and say who can we introduce that can turn this game around for us...

My point is, sure, maybe Reid doesnt have the defensive nous for Trappatoni's gameplan but there will be a stage where we will need to chase a result. There is very little on the bench with the craft and guile to change a game. Hunt is direct, Lawrence might bag you a free kick but for vision and technique and passing through the middle i dont see any effective changes that can be made.

Im not having a go or picking on you by the way, just creating debate. You seem to believe that Trappatoni can do no wrong while i believe that some of his decisions need to be questioned - we cant stand idly by and follow blindly, neither should every minute of his spell be invalidated by idiots like Dunphy or Giles or the remedial monkeys but there are questions to be asked, valid ones. And i suppose it boils down to the fact that i feel that Andy Reid has been unfairly castigated by the management. He could definitely add something to our squad - if nothing else he would add a solid "Plan B".

[FarBeag]

Emmet. Reid was not at fault for either of Spurs goals, you are about the only one who believes this, and i dont think anyone on here said that he was knackered for the last 20 minutes. Anyway i am not going to argue with you anymore but for what it worth here are some of the comments from one of the Sunderland message boards regarding AR performance yesterday. www.readytogo.net

Reid was excellent today , he ran the show for most of the match.

Andy Reid by a country mile. An absolute revelation this season.

Andy Reid was world class today. Passed it beautifully.

Reid was excellent today , he ran the show for most of the match

Reid was world class yesterday, followed by Turner.

And ROI will spank France. If they can afford to leave Andy Reid out then they must have some bloody good midfielders

Reid was MOM for me. He seems to be geting better with every match he plays.

[drummerboy]

Watched an interview with Andy Reids father on some obscure tv channel last night. His father was saying he wouldn't dare tell Trap how to do his job, but that his son was still hoping to play for Ireland again.

He talked about how passionate Andy Reid is about his nationality. Even said the first think Andy does when he gets back to Ireland is visit Kilmainham Jail. A little bizarre I know but the guy certainly loves his country. What a contrast to Stephen Ireland, who Trap is actually being urged to pamper.

[Scram]

Emmet. Reid was not at fault for either of Spurs goals, you are about the only one who believes this, and i dont think anyone on here said that he was knackered for the last 20 minutes. Anyway i am not going to argue with you anymore but for what it worth here are some of the comments from one of the Sunderland message boards regarding AR performance yesterday. www.readytogo.net

Reid was excellent today , he ran the show for most of the match.

Andy Reid by a country mile. An absolute revelation this season.

Andy Reid was world class today. Passed it beautifully.

Reid was excellent today , he ran the show for most of the match

Reid was world class yesterday, followed by Turner.

And ROI will spank France. If they can afford to leave Andy Reid out then they must have some bloody good midfielders

Reid was MOM for me. He seems to be getting better with every match he plays.

Class again yesterday and Sunderland were very unlucky. A sublime shot from Andy hit the woodwork and would otherwise have been goal of the month.

Given that, EVERY football pundit in the business, every Sunderland fan, everyone interviewed, AGREES 100% that Andy Reid is top quality and should absolutely be in our limited squad, at a minimum, it's clear that only a football illiterate would argue otherwise.

I don't think there has ever been a clearer case for inclusion and a more inexplicable case of expulsion.

[Crosby87]

Even said the first think Andy does when he gets back to Ireland is visit Kilmainham Jail.

Why is that?

[Emmet7]

Emmet. Reid was not at fault for either of Spurs goals, you are about the only one who believes this

Me and Ray Houghtan who saw the same thing as me. Ball comes across the box, Reid goes on his way out of the box, leaving the nearest player to him, Keane in acres of space. Truely a schoolboy defensive error. Thank god he's not playing against the French if he was going to defend like that.

Did anyone see the beautiful freekick taken by Glenn Whelan today, almost lead to a goal. He scored a great goal last week too. And defensively he's pretty good too.

Reid has it going forward but at the back he doesn't have much. We just cannot afford to concede even one goal in Dublin against the French. Reid would be blown away by the French, swept aside easily. A 2-2 draw in Dublin or even a 3-2 win would be a very poor result, the French would only need a goalless draw or 1-0 win at home.

[FarBeag]

Me and Ray Houghtan who saw the same thing as me. Ball comes across the box, Reid goes on his way out of the box, leaving the nearest player to him, Keane in acres of space. Truely a schoolboy defensive error. Thank god he's not playing against the French if he was going to defend like that.

Did anyone see the beautiful freekick taken by Glenn Whelan today, almost lead to a goal. He scored a great goal last week too. And defensively he's pretty good too.

Reid has it going forward but at the back he doesn't have much. We just cannot afford to concede even one goal in Dublin against the French. Reid would be blown away by the French, swept aside easily. A 2-2 draw in Dublin or even a 3-2 win would be a very poor result, the French would only need a goalless draw or 1-0 win at home.

You can’t seriously blame Reid for this? If anyone was to blame it was Bardsley.Get a grip for Christ sakes.

Anyway the game is over and done with and we have debated it to death you have your views i have mine so lets move on.

It was a lovely free kick yes but what else did he do in the game? Whelan was no 9 yes? Did you see him lose possession right in front of his own goal where Jimmy Bullard nearly scored? I bet you didn’t!

And btw way Stoke lost 2-1 so should I be putting the full blame on Whelan for this like you did with Reid for Sunderland’s loss?

[richieos]

You can’t seriously blame Reid for this? If anyone was to blame it was Bardsley.Get a grip for Christ sakes.

Anyway the game is over and done with and we have debated it to death you have your views i have mine so lets move on.

It was a lovely free kick yes but what else did he do in the game? Whelan was no 9 yes? Did you see him lose possession right in front of his own goal where Jimmy Bullard nearly scored? I bet you didn’t!

And btw way Stoke lost 2-1 so should I be putting the full blame on Whelan for this like you did with Reid for Sunderland’s loss?

Whelan wears number 6, James Beattie wears number 9 i think.

[eaststand85]

Jesus lads, this is fast becoming the most boring thread on the forum as everyone keeps repeating themselves (been keeping track for a while but this my first post on this thread). Think everyone knows at this stage where they stand on the issue (I'll keep my opinion to myself for fear of alienating one side or the other). can we keep it to actual news on Andy Reid at this stage?

Btw, this is also true of the Stephen Ireland thread.:rolleyes:

[Kingdom]

Didn’t realise that. Fair enough then if true. If this is the situation I can see why Trap won’t include him.Out of interest how do you know this to be the case?

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2009/1017/1224256898887.html

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/reid-rules-out-apologising-to-trapattoni-105161.html

Decide yourselves.

[Scram]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2009/1017/1224256898887.html

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/reid-rules-out-apologising-to-trapattoni-105161.html

Decide yourselves.

Both stories based on Bruce’s OPINION with absolutely no support for his assumption that Trappatoni may be waiting on an apology. You may as well have Emmet7 say that Trap is waiting on an apology, not based on any facts.

And, if it is the case that Trapaptoni is leaving this obviously talented asset out of the team because of this petty reason then it is a disgrace. It would also be a disgrace as it suggests that Trap has being lying all this time about his reasons for Andy’s expulsion.

So:

EITHER TRAP IS LYING OR HE HAS EXPELLED ANDY FOR PETTY REASONS, WHICH IS IT?

[Junior]

Emmet,

I agree with a lot of what you say, but not all of it.

With regards, to Spurs' first goal.

Reid, could have made a better choice and tracked Robbie closer, rather than running across the goal towards the ball (to say he ran out from goal would be an exaggeration). Pinning the blame entirely on him would completely absolve the Central defender, who was equally as close to Robbie, not marking anyone else and certainly a player whose primary objective would be to mark/track the oppositions central forward? Both players (and more I think) raised the arm in a feeble attempt to play offside.

In summary, Reid could have done better but cannot be blamed entirely for the goal.

Secondly, over many of your posts you have stated the 'A Reid does not fit the system' argument and I tend to agree. However, you then cant go and rip Reid a new ar$ehole because of his inadequate defensive duties when you nor I know what Bruce has asked him to do in that regard. No doubt Reid is playing in a more attacking role from what I have seen in the 'Sunderland System', perhaps defending is not what Bruce wants him doing? Different team, different tactics.


Reid should be in the Squad based on ability and performances this season.

[Emmet7]

Reid was in the squad but not playing before the supposed bust up, and Reid was in the squad but not playing after the so called bust up.

When will it occur to people that Reid is just not Trap's type of player. If manager's cannot pick their own type of players, then they might as well leave the picking of the team to the sportswriter of some newspaper or other who never managed but thinks they know better.

To sum it up in a few words, Trap is not picking Reid for tactical reasons. Whether those tactical reasons are the setup of his team or the discipline of the team, they are still tactical reasons.

Trap has brought immense discipline to this squad of players. And yet people think he should bend the rules for certain players who aren't willing to give respect. If one player is allowed break the rules, then every player will want to break the rules. You have to lay down the law somewhere, and anyone who thinks that's petty is an idiot.

Reid is just not Trap's kind of player, end of. We had Reid in the team for 4 years up to 2008, probably the worst four years performance wise in the history of the Irish team, with Reid pulling the strings in the middle of the park. That is not my opinion by the way, the facts and stats clearly show while Reid was playing for Ireland, we were crap and failed to get near qualification.

The Andy Reid story is just a manufactured controversy by sports writers who have no other stick to beat Trap with. It's a nothing story.

[jbyrne]

I see Reid as being just as good in the middle as out wide, but Reid himself said recently that he doesn't see himself as central midfielder.

I'd have him in the squad any day of the week myself. Is he really any worse than Duffer or McGeady at tracking back?

yes. duff and mcgeady are both very good at tracking back. reid isnt

[paul_oshea]

Both stories based on Bruce’s OPINION with absolutely no support for his assumption that Trappatoni may be waiting on an apology. You may as well have Emmet& say that Trap is waiting on an apology, not based on any facts.

And, if it is the case that Trapaptoni is leaving this obviously talented asset out of the team because of this petty reason then it is a disgrace. It would also be a disgrace as it suggests that Trap has being lying all this time about his reasons for Andy’s expulsion.

So:

EITHER TRAP IS LYING OR HE HAS EXPELLED ANDY FOR PETTY REASONS, WHICH IS IT?

he will swim the irish sea, but he wont apologise? wtf?

Sure he doesn't have to mean it. I dont get this, for someone who says he really wants to play for your country.

[Alf Honn]

You're right, there shouldn't be argument - because there isn't one. It's a no-brainer.


Time after time throughout this campaign, we've been over-run in midfield because of our inability to retain possession.


Whether that's been Whelan/Gibson v Cyprus (h) or Whelan/Andrews v Georgia, Bulgaria and Italy (all h), we've lacked quality where it matters.


Now we come up against one of Europe's best midfields and we're without one of the best passers we've produced in the last ten years. Even on the bench.


Forget system/tactics etc for now. They will only matter in the post-mortem on Thursday week.


It has to be a personal grudge by Trap. As pointed out by someone, A Reid didn't feature under Trap until 'Guitargate' but could that have something to do with him not going on the Portugal training camp a few months earlier?


In slating Kiely for walking out in May, Trap let his guard drop and admitted not being impressed with players missing that camp (Carsley, Joey O'Brien etc).



Steven Reid, too, had to speaks cheek to speak out when his career was written off by Trap - despite the pair even having a conversation in months!

He was a notable absentee from this week's squad. Yet, he was fitter the week of the squad selection than he was when named in the squad for the Italy/Montenegro game.


Is there a pattern emerging with Trap's omissions? I think so.


As he knows well, he'll have to live or die in this job by his decisions.

[Emmet7]

Dominated in midfield by who? I watched the Italian game in Dublin on TV. In the first half I remember thinking how much more dominant we were. A stat came up saying the Italians had much more possession and immediately George Hamilton had the same reaction as me, that someone had made a mistake with the stats, it should be Ireland with the more possession, and his co-commentator, Jim Beglin, agreed.

If we won the game 5-0 and Italy dominated in midfield, what then? The glass half empty people would be in dispair and demand Andy Reid be brought back despite his hopeless tracking back, defending and tackling. That is the real no-brainer.

Both Italian results were fantastic results. We did not draw with the Italians because of an inability to retain possession. It's one thing for armchair generals to say it's easy to retain possession. Does anyone seriously think Andy Reid is in the same league as Pirlo in the centre of the park. If he is crap at defending against Premier League sides, imagine how much worse he would be trying to defend against Pirlo.

Remember Pirlo was subbed in Bari because he didn't get a sniff from the excellant Andrews and Whelan that night.

Our goals against Bulgaria were defensive mistakes.

It's a myth that Andy Reid would do better than what we have. And it's highly likely on the evidence of his weekend display that he would leave gaps in the middle of the park which good teams would exploit.

Reid was not a favoured player of Trap before the bust up and still wasn't after. All that happened was a troublesome fringe player to Trap's plans who has a habit of ill-discipline was left at home for future games.

Funny isn't it, we achieved our best results, after Reid's ommission from the squad.

This is getting to be a joke now. Reid is not good enough for central midfield, it was clear at the weekend. He has good passing ability, but defensively he's Sunday League standard. We'd be wiped out against the French if Reid was playing central midfield. We'd easily concede 2, 3, 4 even 5 goals in Croker if he was in there, no doubt about it.

That would be the tie over.

[Alf Honn]

All that happened was a troublesome fringe player to Trap's plans who has a habit of ill-discipline was left at home for future games.

Love it:p


As (the troublemaker!) Reid said recently, all the players bar two were in the hotel foyer at the sing-song when Trap went berserk at him. And only cos those two didn't know the words of the songs!

[Emmet7]

All that happened was a troublesome fringe player to Trap's plans who has a habit of ill-discipline was left at home for future games.

Love it:p


As (the troublemaker!) Reid said recently, all the players bar two were in the hotel foyer at the sing-song when Trap went berserk at him. And only cos those two didn't know the words of the songs!

Ah right, so Reid was keeping them all back from going to bed by having an ould sing-song.

Ah sure that's great, sure why go to bed at all when preparing for big matches. Keep the team up all night drinking and singing, sure who needs preparation, in the middle of a qualifying campaign.

Rest and recuperation, who needs it. :rolleyes:

Let all the players have beer bellies and be a couple stone overweight and stay up singing all night.

I know who had the best interests of the Irish team at heart that night and it wasn't Andy Reid.

[Den Perry]

Despite the fact you cannot post something without throwing in an insult, which seems to stem from some insecurity or other you have, I will respond, although I won't the next time if you continue with immature baiting.

I just don't understand where you Den Perry and your fellow Andy Reid lovers would put him in the side? However, you and your fellow Dunphyites would I believe take off either Whelan or Andrews and put in Andy Reid.

This would completely imbalance the team in the following way. The three creative midfielders would spend most of the match not attacking but tracking back, doubling up, covering and so on and so forth. Two creative midfielders would be required to defend where one defensive midfielder would do.

Our creative players would be in our own half the whole match, their energy wasted defending and doing the job Andrews and Whelan now do.

The sad thing is that some supporters have only interest in the creative players. They have no interest in the players who actually put in the tackles, win the ball back and give it to the creative players. It's sad really. They want samba football from all 11 players, which just isn't possible in any team. Even Brazil have Lucios and the type who tackle and win the ball back, making it available to the Ronaldinhos.

If we all had our way we'd have a team of 11 Messi's. Unfortunately that team would get thrashed because no-one would defend, win the ball back, tackle, etc etc.

Whelan and Andrews provide cover for our creative wide players who don't have to worry about tracking back. Stick Andy Reid in to replace these two central midfielders and that's what all Andy Reid fans suggest and you end up with our creative players spending all their time defending and none of their time attacking.

I really don't think we would have gotten draws against the Italians if Reid was in the side, and I am sure we would have lost. The Italians would have ran all over us in both games and banged in lots of goals.

It's amazing with some Irish supporters. When you draw against the Italians, they say we should have thrashed them. When we beat the Italians as in 94 they say we should have beaten them more.

Can you not just accept it was a good result, the best possible result and it's likely had Reid been in the side for the reasons I state we would have lost, because just like in the Stan era, the balance was all wrong.

as Fear Beag said, I think the words "pot", "kettle" and "black" are appropriate here.In addition, can you point out where I said I'd have him in the side? I said it was folly not to have him available.... To simplify, for your benefit, that means it could prove very detrimental not to have a player of his nature on the field / or on the bench to bring on if we needed someting to open up a defence

[Emmet7]

as Fear Beag said, I think the words "pot", "kettle" and "black" are appropriate here.In addition, can you point out where I said I'd have him in the side? I said it was folly not to have him available.... To simplify, for your benefit, that means it could prove very detrimental not to have a player of his nature on the field / or on the bench to bring on if we needed someting to open up a defence

Yeh he'll open up the Irish defence alright to the French. That's after staying up all night beforehand singing songs and entertaining the players.

[Alf Honn]

Let's resume this exchange next week Emmet.

Ireland won't have Andy Reid in the team or on the bench v France (missed opportunity on Trap's behalf to swallow his pride imho) so we'll have to see if that decision influences the outcome.


After all, Trap admits he's not God.

[Den Perry]

Ray Houghtan pointed out the same error five minutes after I posted on here. I think he is in a better position to comment than you, seeing as he was a top level professoinal soccer player for 20 years, don't you think.

Reid was also pulled out of position for the second goal. He was the central defensive midfielder, that's where he should have stayed. Ball comes across to Huddlestone and Reid is out of position and cannot stop the shot.

Clearly you didn't see how he ran out the field while Crouch was heading the ball towards Robbie Keane.

By the way, I don't work as a builder, what gave you that idea?

2 goals conceded, none scored was Sunderland's lot today. If that happened for Ireland, we won't beat the French.

I like what Andy Reid has to offer going forward. But defensive midfielder he aint.


So we're backto Emmet's belief that if you havn't played to a certain standard your opinion is worthless. Ray Houghton played to a higher standard than Arsene Wenger...are we to believe that he knows more about the game than Wenger?

Going by your logic Emmet, I'd say 99% of us posting on the Ireland forum will have to stop and only air our comments on the Junior League / LSL /MSL forums..

[DeLorean]

He wasnt going up against the 84 Brazilian team either mind you

What was so great about that team:confused:

[KK77]

What was so great about that team:confused:

Wonder if means the 82 team?

[Stuttgart88]

Reid was quoted in Irish Times today saying he won't apologise and he has nothing to apologise for.

I'll post the link when I get time but I think it's a crucial comment.

[geysir]

The link has already been posted.

No apology link (http://foot.ie/forums/showpost.php?p=1268365&postcount=1364)


Apparently that's Traps fault.

[Scram]

he will swim the irish sea, but he wont apologise? wtf?

Sure he doesn't have to mean it. I dont get this, for someone who says he really wants to play for your country.

WHO has asked him for an apology? Other than Steve Bruce?! If Trap is awaiting an apology why doesn't he be forthright and say so?!

Absolute petty nonsense, maybe Ireland was right about Trap's ego. Total childishness if that is what is keeping Andy out of the squad and POOR management. You call the guy in sit him down and tell him where you are at, all behind closed doors, resolve and then get on with it.

[dr_peepee]

Reid was quoted in Irish Times today saying he won't apologise and he has nothing to apologise for.

I'll post the link when I get time but I think it's a crucial comment.

He should just apologies, but not mean it.....Like I did when I got the infraction over using curses in posts!!

[DeLorean]

Wonder if means the 82 team?

Still a strange selection, one would usually go with Brazil 70!


Reid was quoted in Irish Times today saying he won't apologise and he has nothing to apologise for.

I'll post the link when I get time but I think it's a crucial comment.

Here (http://www.irishtimes.com/search/index.html?rm=listresults&filter=datedesc&keywords=andy+reid&irelandcom_searchdefault=Search+Hotels%2C+Plumbers %2C+Restaurants%2C+etc.&irishtimescom_searchdefault)
Doesn't seem to be working at the moment though. Can't seem to open article.

[osarusan]

emmet, can you not understand that when people say that would like to see Andy Reid in the squad, that need not mean that they want him to start every game. They might want him to be on the bench if his kind of player is needed.

We know Andy Reid isn't as defensively minded as Whelan or Andrews, nobody is saying he is. He is a far more creative and attacking player. If the score is 1-0 to Ireland after the first leg, nobody will be looking for Reid to start in Paris, and as long as the score stays that way, nobody will be looking for him to come off the bench either.

But a situation might come about when a player with Andy Reid's qualities is what is neeed. I mentioned a scenario on a previous page, which SkStu has echoed, and the scenario is this -

We draw 0-0 in Dublin, but concede in Paris. 30 mins to go and we are 1 down. The French start to retreat and we time and territory up to about 40 yards out where the French defensive wall begins.

Now i don't think this is a crazy scenario, I'd imagine it is one of the more likely scenarios. Do you not think that in this kind of situation, Andy Reid would be a good player to bring off the bench? Who else would you bring on from the existing squad that you feel would be able to provide better deliveries?

[Junior]

Here (http://www.irishtimes.com/search/index.html?rm=listresults&filter=datedesc&keywords=andy+reid&irelandcom_searchdefault=Search+Hotels%2C+Plumbers %2C+Restaurants%2C+etc.&irishtimescom_searchdefault)
Doesn't seem to be working at the moment though. Can't seem to open article.

Worked fine for me.

[Junior]

Emmet - Your valid points start to look stupid when you compare Reids defending on a par with Sunday League football - No matter if Trap has personal issues or not - its starting to look like you do.

Criticism of "ArmChair know it all's" prior to telling us your synopsis of the Italian game after watching it on TV also strikes of hypocrisy and no matter how many times a TV Pundit has agreed with you (is it 3 or 4 in this thread?) it wont mean that any of the posters here dont have a right to express their view without being dismissed so crassly.

[DeLorean]

Worked fine for me.

Don't know why it's not working for me. The other articles are opening fine.

[Noelys Guitar]

From todays Indo
Sunderland manager Steve Bruce recently suggested an apology from the Dubliner might be the only way to end the stalemate.

"The point that I've made to him (Bruce) is that I don't feel I've got anything to say sorry for, I don't feel that I did anything wrong," the footballer said yesterday

And yet Bruce told Reid to apologise. If I was Andy I would listen to Bruce. Something happened and if the manager (Trap)interprets it as an insult then Reid should apologise. Is it "me principles" over getting re-selected?

[geysir]

Is it not obvious by now that Andy has been left out of the squad for attitude/discipline reasons for something which happened at the pre Cyprus game training camp, something which had hung over from Mainz.

The Mainz thing was not enough on it's own to exclude Andy as it's patently obvious he was not excluded after the Mainz incident.

[LFCSixty/Eighty]

We'd be wiped out against the French if Reid was playing central midfield. We'd easily concede 2, 3, 4 even 5 goals in Croker if he was in there, no doubt about it.

That would be the tie over.

You cannot say seriously say that with a straight face!! All your valid points go out the window when you start saying stuff like that!

[FarBeag]

Emmet, your preoccupation with Andy Reid is getting frightening at this stage. Do you really dislike the guy so much? You would think he ran away with your missus or was the cause of world recession!

At this moment in time Andy Reid should be in the Irish SQUAD. At least this is a start. After this its up to him to prove to Trap if he good enough to be in the team.

[KK77]

[QUOTE=DeLorean;1268518]Still a strange selection, one would usually go with Brazil 70!



One wasn't around for 70:D Although 82 didn't win they did play a small bit of ball.

[Den Perry]

Yeh he'll open up the Irish defence alright to the French. That's after staying up all night beforehand singing songs and entertaining the players.


What an idiotic retort

[Murfinator]

Lets not forget Andy was given a chance and blew it, even feeling so sorry for himself at a time that he was contemplating international retirement. And yes his attitude has changed and he's expressed a willingness to work harder but I think it's wrong for us to expect Trap to be bending over backwards to usher him back into the side at the expense of other more disciplined squad members.

He's said Andy will get his chance after this campaign and so long as he sticks to that promise and Andy has learned from his mistakes I have no problem whatsoever with the current situation.

[Alf Honn]

Never once did he consider retirement. In fact, he's gone completely the other way to say much playing for his country would mean to him.



Trap said Reid would get another chance in the campaign and that campaign is over. After his initial axing for the Cyprus game, Trap went so far to suggest he'd consider recalling Reid for the Poland friendly a month later and playing him off the main striker.


Nothing transpired from this bluster and I doubt he ever intended to.


He probably thought the question would go away with Andy in and out of Sunderland team but, instead, he's in the best form of his career and has given class 90 minute performances against, amongst others, Liverpool and Man U recently.

[dr_peepee]

Maybe it's a culmination of things and we're all guilty of over-reactions to one individual component of said culmintation rather than the whole picture..

Maybe something minor did happen in Mainz but, as cited due to his presence in the squad for Montenegro and Cyprus, it wasn't bad enough to warrant exclusion.

Maybe Trapp believed his condition wasn't on a par with what he expects from a profesional Athlete and so excluded him. Not something it would be productive to admit to the media too.

Maybe there really is no one big incident to apologise for, hence Reid sincerely doesn't know what to apologies for.

Maybe Andy Reids current form, fitness and diplomacy would have earned him a recall under Trapp at any other stage of the qualification bar this stage.

I just think it's time managers, where possible, embraced the media a bit more and treated it like a medium to fans and possibly even players, instead of a necessary evil that comes with the job. It's the non commital contradictions that generate more column inches and message board guff than the act itself.

..... so in short it's still mostly Trapps fault.

[SuperDave]

Never once did he consider retirement. In fact, he's gone completely the other way to say much playing for his country would mean to him.



Trap said Reid would get another chance in the campaign and that campaign is over. After his initial axing for the Cyprus game, Trap went so far to suggest he'd consider recalling Reid for the Poland friendly a month later and playing him off the main striker.


Nothing transpired from this bluster and I doubt he ever intended to.


He probably thought the question would go away with Andy in and out of Sunderland team but, instead, he's in the best form of his career and has given class 90 minute performances against, amongst others, Liverpool and Man U recently.

Let's get this straight. Andy Reid was NOT axed for the Cyprus game. He was in the squad and on the bench, just as he had been in Mainz and Montenegro. It is quite clear and it has been said on here numerous times, Andy Reid is not being excluded for the Mainz incident. Why would Trap have called him up for the Cyprus game were he 'excluding' him? I agree Andy Reid has nothing to apologise for and neither does Trap. He is being excluded for footballing reasons because he is just not Trap's kind of player.

[Scram]

Let's get this straight. Andy Reid was NOT axed for the Cyprus game. He was in the squad and on the bench, just as he had been in Mainz and Montenegro. It is quite clear and it has been said on here numerous times, Andy Reid is not being excluded for the Mainz incident. Why would Trap have called him up for the Cyprus game were he 'excluding' him? I agree Andy Reid has nothing to apologise for and neither does Trap. He is being excluded for footballing reasons because he is just not Trap's kind of player.


Agree that there is no apology being waited for by any “side”, but I can’t agree that Trap excluded him ONLY because “he does not suit his system”. That would be implausible given the other very much fringe 9at best!) players that he has included.

It could well be something as petty as Trap not liking Andy’s attitude when on the bench but not given a run out, and, Trap DEMANDING respect, which is not a good trait for a manager.

[Alf Honn]

Andy Reid was NOT axed for the Cyprus game. He was in the squad and on the bench, just as he had been in Mainz and Montenegro.

--

My apologies, you're right - it was the Poland game he was dropped for, the same game he earmarked Reid for a start in but then decided to drop him entirely from the squad.

Perhaps Andy didn't give the Trap apology he wanted the week of the Cyprus game but, then again, neither did any of the other 20 players (and Brady, according to Sunday Times) who were involved in the sing-song.

[Junior]

Andy Reid was NOT axed for the Cyprus game. He was in the squad and on the bench, just as he had been in Mainz and Montenegro.

--

My apologies, you're right - it was the Poland game he was dropped for, the same game he earmarked Reid for a start in but then decided to drop him entirely from the squad.

Perhaps Andy didn't give the Trap apology he wanted the week of the Cyprus game but, then again, neither did any of the other 20 players (and Brady, according to Sunday Times) who were involved in the sing-song.

But I dont believe they further compounded the issue by arguing back and refusing to call it a night?

[Alf Honn]

Did he really refuse to 'call it a night'?


Sunday Indo article (Nov 23) below. Hardly conclusive?


He had allowed the team to relax with a few drinks, he said, and Reid, according to another source, began to play a guitar belonging to a member of the backroom team after being encouraged by Liam Brady (http://www.independent.ie/topics/Liam+Brady).


But when a number of players remained in the bar past the 1.0am curfew, Trapattoni tried to get them to bed. As it got closer to 2.0am, Trapattoni acted.


Insisting his actions were not the result of animosity, Trapattoni said: "If he was my son, I would go boom! [he acts out kicking someone up the arse] But he is not my son. Do you understand? This is the first time I have clarified the situation, the ten players can say it is true or not true."


As it approached 2.0am, Trapattoni became more insistent that the players retire, pointing out they had to play Montenegro (http://www.independent.ie/topics/Montenegro) on the Wednesday night.


"It is finished, it is two o'clock. We had a game in three days' time. The table was like a pub with all the beer on it."


Trapattoni says Reid was the last of the players to go to bed, a claim that conflicts with other accounts, but repeated that the incident had no bearing on his selection.