Andy Reid(b 1982)

[Wolfie]

The Trapp quote re Reid sulking.

http://foot.ie/forums/showpost.php?p=1059970&postcount=506

[DmanDmythDledge]

The Trapp quote re Reid sulking.

http://foot.ie/forums/showpost.php?p=1059970&postcount=506
The reason I don't 100% believe that is because Brady, around the time, said that there was absolutely no problem with Reid's attitude. I can't see why the assistant manager would say something so completely untrue given what what been discussed.

[Scram]

If the Mainz party was the big issue then Andy would not have been togged out and primed to come on against Montenegro.

Even if it was the issue between them, Andy looks the type of lad who could apologise, Not at all like having to wait forever for some Roscommon culchie to finally cop on and own up to their behaviour :)

If after: all his efforts, losing 8kg, a stunning goal and display last night, a total loyalty and willingness to play for Ireland, an absolute need for quality in the IRELAND team….Andy is not selected for the squad, it is a total travesty.

If we do not win in Cyprus with Andy not in the squad, Trappatoni will be turned upon, and rightly so, as it stands already, he is VERY lucky that the honeymoon period has extended this far in the Irish media.

As for misdemeanors of Roscommon sheep botherers, Andy will score a hat-trick in a World Cup Final before you get any remorse there!

Interesting though that some posters want Andy to apologise when Trap smacked him across the ear but think Trap should beg Stephen Ireland to come back to the side! Notably, these are the views of the great hypocrite Roy Keane.

[Drumcondra 69er]

If after: all his efforts, losing 8kg, a stunning goal and display last night, a total loyalty and willingness to play for Ireland, an absolute need for quality in the IRELAND team….Andy is not selected for the squad, it is a total travesty.




That fact that a professional sportsman needed to lose the guts of a stone and a half and has taken until now to do it is a travesty.

I hope to see him back in the squad by the way but his condiition over the last few years has held him back for club as well as country.

[Brendan 82]

That fact that a professional sportsman needed to lose the guts of a stone and a half and has taken until now to do it is a travesty.

I hope to see him back in the squad by the way but his condiition over the last few years has held him back for club as well as country.

Agreed, and it highlights the error in judgment of those who said his weight was not an issue. Granted, the guy had the skill to basically pass his way to a paycheck the last couple years but one must wonder what he would have been capable of if he had the proper enthusiasm from the beginning of his career. It is all well and good to "shape up", but starting at the age of 27 is pretty late in the game. Regardless, I hope he can play his way into the Ireland squad this season

[NeilMcD]

I would say that he probably has to work harder than other players to shape up and he was probably just doing the same as others. But sometimes the same is not enough and this is the case.

[TerryPhelan]

Agreed. Would love to see Andy back in the squad and delighted he has spent the close season removing the main excuse people rely upon to overlook his obvious technical brilliance and outstanding vision (qualities which are sorely lacking in the current squad). I've never actually been completely convinced that he has been 'overweight' - I might be alone in thinking this but I cannot see how it stands to reason that a guy playing week in, week out in centre midfield at a functional Premier League club can still manage to be overweight and/or unfit. It's a contradiction in terms (cue deluge of photos of Andy looking tubby!). I hope he gets a call-up but, barring a considerable broadening of Trap's opinion of what a centre midfielder should do, I can't see it happening. He seems to have settled on a profile of 'gritty, hardworking watercarrier' as the campaign has gone on alright, but if he saw fit (ahem) to include Reid in the first few squads he must clearly have envisaged a role for him.

Or a roll for him.

Sorry. No more fat jokes.

[Drumcondra 69er]

Agreed. Would love to see Andy back in the squad and delighted he has spent the close season removing the main excuse people rely upon to overlook his obvious technical brilliance and outstanding vision (qualities which are sorely lacking in the current squad). I've never actually been completely convinced that he has been 'overweight' - I might be alone in thinking this but I cannot see how it stands to reason that a guy playing week in, week out in centre midfield at a functional Premier League club can still manage to be overweight and/or unfit. It's a contradiction in terms (cue deluge of photos of Andy looking tubby!). I hope he gets a call-up but, barring a considerable broadening of Trap's opinion of what a centre midfielder should do, I can't see it happening. He seems to have settled on a profile of 'gritty, hardworking watercarrier' as the campaign has gone on alright, but if he saw fit (ahem) to include Reid in the first few squads he must clearly have envisaged a role for him.

Or a roll for him.

Sorry. No more fat jokes.

He's just lost nearly a stone and a half!! I'd say that's a pretty good indication that he was over weight! I would agree that he has to do a bit more then some to keep the weight down but that what he should have been doing for years. He can eat and drink what he likes when he retires but he needed to apply himself. I'm delighted he finally did, hope he keeps it up and would love to see him on a plane in the squad for SA next year.

[DmanDmythDledge]

Agreed. Would love to see Andy back in the squad and delighted he has spent the close season removing the main excuse people rely upon to overlook his obvious technical brilliance and outstanding vision (qualities which are sorely lacking in the current squad). I've never actually been completely convinced that he has been 'overweight' - I might be alone in thinking this but I cannot see how it stands to reason that a guy playing week in, week out in centre midfield at a functional Premier League club can still manage to be overweight and/or unfit.
QFT.


He's just lost nearly a stone and a half!! I'd say that's a pretty good indication that he was over weight!
While he may have been visibly a bit over weight it never effected his fitness has he played the full 90 minutes in the majority of games comfortably over the past few seasons.

[paul_oshea]

How do you know he hasn't already apologised?

Reading into what he said in that interview, makes me think at least that he hasn't apologised, becuase he doesn't really see the need to apologise i.e. he thinks he has done no wrong. And maybe he hasn't and we are all speculating and he will now be called into the squad sooner rather than later.

If not though I reckon, he hasn't apologised, for whatever he may have done (and potentially unaware of what he has done).

[Brendan 82]

QFT.


While he may have been visibly a bit over weight it never effected his fitness has he played the full 90 minutes in the majority of games comfortably over the past few seasons.

As i said a couple posts ago, he has passed/skilled his way to a paycheck the last few years. Imagine if he was a fitness freak; how good could he have been? Imagine if he really dedicated his life to it while he was at Tottenham, he could have succeeded there and possibly gone on to bigger and better things. Everyone knows he has been able to get by the last few years, no one is really arguing that. I just think it is a shame, because I rate him as a player but believe he could have been so much more. This latest development, while encouraging, is beyond tardy.

[geysir]

Based on stated weight loss, I reckon Andy must be now as fast over the 100m than "supermac" MacDonald was.

[TerryPhelan]

I'd imagine there are few who disagree with you. Andy has never had a bad game for Ireland in my book (aside from Switzerland away perhaps, where his cause was not helped by a 90 minute barrage of criticism by Stephen Carr who was playing behind him. For a young guy new to the international scene, playing in a high pressure game away from home, I always felt Reid deserved far better support than he got from Carr that night). It seems peculiar that Miller ticks more boxes because he can do everything, albeit moderately, whereas Reid does some things excellently and others slightly poorly and is seen as a luxury who is incompatible with the manager's plans. Football is rarely decided on the basis of logic, of course. Or more likely still, Trap's logic is more sound than I am giving him credit for. I would be interested to hear his response to our queries about Miller's inclusion though - as far as I'm aware this is one issue which the press have yet to raise with him.

[Thommo]

Superb last night Reid looks really super fit great quote from the paper yesterday re his fall out with Trap.
"If he left everybody out of the squad last night who was singing that night their'd probably be only two people in the squad - and that's only because they didn't know the song"

Gaffe of the night the sky commentator's pronunciation of young Spillane's surname pronounced "Spill lane":(

[Drumcondra 69er]

QFT.


While he may have been visibly a bit over weight it never effected his fitness has he played the full 90 minutes in the majority of games comfortably over the past few seasons.


Different thing, did he play them to the best of his ability? Might he have been sharper without the extra weight? They're fair questions. And he was in the Championship a season and a half ago, he's been very much in and out of the Sunderland team since joining in the Jan 08 window.

[Brendan 82]

Different thing, did he play them to the best of his ability? Might he have been sharper without the extra weight? They're fair questions.

This is pretty much my point. I reckon he could have been a legend if he was a "fitness freak" his whole career.

[eirebhoy]

That fact that a professional sportsman needed to lose the guts of a stone and a half and has taken until now to do it is a travesty.

My guess is he put it on over last summer or last season. He was Sunderland's main man when he joined and then had a peripheral role last season.

He wasn't always big
http://www.goal.ie/fundraising/images/John%20O'%20Shea%20&%20Andy%20Reid%20-%20use.JPG

[Stuttgart88]

You're still in denial eirebhoy :) He's been overweight by athetic standards for several years. No argument.

D69er is spot on. The fact that he has only now got into shape is a bad indictment of either himself or his club's dieticians, probably both.

Diod anyone notice how the Spurs squad all lost weight after Ramos took over? Huddlestone & Robinson in particular, but even players like Keane. It's simply inexcusable not to be in peak condition as a top footballer these days.

Trust me, I participate in endurance sport and like to think I know about these things.

[eirebhoy]

I find it strange how Keane's attitude to him completely changed after a brilliant first half season. Changing his position, making sure he played the 120 minutes in an unimportant league cup game having not played a full game previously. I'd say he slacked a bit last summer.

[geysir]

If he only lost what he put on in secret over the summer then how come all the references to the new slimline Andy Reid?

[eirebhoy]

If he only lost what he put on in secret over the summer then how come all the references to the new slimline Andy Reid?
Talking about last summer, 2008. He looks slim to me here:
http://www.goal.ie/fundraising/images/John%20O'%20Shea%20&%20Andy%20Reid%20-%20use.JPG

Taken a couple of years ago.

[eirebhoy]

I watched the 2nd half of the Sunderland game which I missed last night and Reid played in the centre for the last 20 minutes. The most noticeable thing about him in that position is that players want to pass it to him. It's not seen as a negative step backwards for the winger to pass it to Reid and I think they'd trust Reid to do the right thing.

[shakermaker1982]

He was a big lad at Forest but he could do a 90 minute shift easy enough. Appearances can be deceptive.

[paul_oshea]

EB, but what was the average age of the wingers, were they young uns? he is 27 at this stage, a wise head so to speak so those more inexperienced will always look to pass to him.

[Drumcondra 69er]

He was a big lad at Forest but he could do a 90 minute shift easy enough. Appearances can be deceptive.

Totally misses the point. If it wasn't an issue then why bother losing the weight now? Just for the craic or purely for appearances? I used to do a 90 minute shift every Sunday morning in St. Anne's park after a feed of pints, a kebab and 4 hours sleep. Doesn't mean I wouldn't have been better had I stayed in the night before.

[geysir]

Time to bury Andy's old Irish jersey,
maybe put it in the coffin along with "Gran".

http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/trapattoni%20ireland.JPG

[Stuttgart88]

I've been searching for a photo that was in all the papers after the 3-0 home win over Cyprus in 2004 but can't find it.

It was a photo of Reid with his jersey off after swapping it with a Cypriot. 2 things stood out for me: dodgy tattoos and a complete lack of muscle definition - i.e., flabby upper arms.

I'm not a body fascist but if anyone can dig this photo up it'll categorically prove that earlier in his career he was not well conditioned. No big deal for you and me, a very big deal for a professional sportsman (bar front-row forwards, sumo wrestlers etc.).

[shakermaker1982]

Totally misses the point. If it wasn't an issue then why bother losing the weight now? Just for the craic or purely for appearances? I used to do a 90 minute shift every Sunday morning in St. Anne's park after a feed of pints, a kebab and 4 hours sleep. Doesn't mean I wouldn't have been better had I stayed in the night before.

He might want to pull birds in a night club with a slimmer look? Andy Reid could lose 4 stone but will never turn into a box to box midfielder. Berbatov is a rake but is a lazy fecker at the best of times. Shape and size isn't everything.

I've seen him live at least 30 times and I can never recall him struggling for fitness. Other players yes but never Reidy hence my appearances can be deceptive comment. I hope the weight loss does help his all round game and yes it might appeal to the Trap and Bruce because it shows he is knuckling down in training but I don't think it will transform him into Frank Lampard.

[endabob1]

There was a quote somewhere from Martin Jol that he was one of the best trainers at Spurs, but tbh I think reid is a good Championship player or bottom half of the premiership on a good day, he doesn't appear to be able to play to his level consistently enough to be better. I have friends who are Charlton fans and he was great with them while he was there, whereas he has always struggled when expected to perform at a higher level.
Also every summer we get the "look how much weight Andy Reid has lost" story, he must be anorexic by now!

[geysir]

If only we could say the same about women and live.

You would have to admit that he looks chubby here, out of condition in face and body.
early feb 2009 (http://d.yimg.com/eur.yimg.com/ng/sp/empics/20090204/22/4225151344-soccer-fa-cup-fourth-round-replay-blackburn-rovers-v-sunderland.jpg)


Heres a couple that would prejudice your image of what was under the shirt,
but It could well be just the wind blowing
Andy V Germany (http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/01/18/article-1121209-01F7049F000004B0-149_468x358.jpg)

Charlton days (http://images.football.co.uk/Dynamic/News/400x400/1187124446_spt_ai_swindonvcharlton_08.jpg)

[eirebhoy]

There was a quote somewhere from Martin Jol that he was one of the best trainers at Spurs, but tbh I think reid is a good Championship player or bottom half of the premiership on a good day, he doesn't appear to be able to play to his level consistently enough to be better. I have friends who are Charlton fans and he was great with them while he was there, whereas he has always struggled when expected to perform at a higher level.

He did very well for Charlton in the premiership and his first half season with Sunderland. In a central position though.

The commentator of the match on Tuesday said he has followed Reid's career from the start and actually thought he was doing well for Spurs and was surprised they let him go.

[endabob1]

He did very well for Charlton in the premiership and his first half season with Sunderland. In a central position though.

The commentator of the match on Tuesday said he has followed Reid's career from the start and actually thought he was doing well for Spurs and was surprised they let him go.

I wasn't, I was reasonably regular at Spurs when he was there (I witnessed his one and only goal against Villa) and he wasn't up to the grade, that said Spurs were a decent side when he was there especially the second season when they should have finished 4th, he struggled to get into the team and when he did he couldn't nail down a place

[shakermaker1982]

Reidy was outstanding for Charlton. MOM nearly every week. He can cut it at that level no bother.

[Stuttgart88]

Maybe he reads foot.ie. After all, the site seems to be proliferated by "lose weight fast" advertisements lately.

lampard is an example of a player who upped his game after losing weight. I took over a minute off my 10k times last year just by losing 1kg. It all counts!

even while not at peak condition he was still a fit player, capable of putting in a hard shift over the 90 minutes. We don't doubt that. However, now he's lost weight, how much better can he get?

It's a simple fact that more weight requires more oxygen & energy to carry. Look at Bradley Wiggins in this year's TdF, and he was already in superb condition. He probably went too far and can't sustain his TdF weight without compromising his health, but it's still illustrative.

Interesting article here:

http://thesportfactory.com/site/trainingnews/VO2_Max-_How_Big_is_Your_Engine.shtml

A simple analogy would be that your car would be less fuel efficient if the boot was full of suitcases.

[endabob1]

Reidy was outstanding for Charlton. MOM nearly every week. He can cut it at that level no bother.

That Level being bottom 3 in the EPL or the Chump?

Don't get me wrong, I like him and would love him to prove me wrong but he has failed to deliver consistently anywhere above the bottom half of the EPL (and I think I'm being generous with that statement) so while i think he merits his place in the squad I wouldn't have him starting except home games against minnows where he might be able to create something different.

[eirebhoy]

That Level being bottom 3 in the EPL or the Chump?

Don't get me wrong, I like him and would love him to prove me wrong but he has failed to deliver consistently anywhere above the bottom half of the EPL (and I think I'm being generous with that statement)
Does that not just equate to him failing to deliver consistently at Spurs considering they're the only top half premiership team he played for?

[endabob1]

Does that not just equate to him failing to deliver consistently at Spurs considering they're the only top half premiership team he played for?

He's hardly set the world alight at Sunderland either which is why I said I was being generous with my "above bottom half" & I wasn't sure where Sunderand finished in when Reid went there first and so was giving him the benefit of the doubt.

[tetsujin1979]

Maybe he reads foot.ie. After all, the site seems to be proliferated by "lose weight fast" advertisements lately.

lampard is an example of a player who upped his game after losing weight. I took over a minute off my 10k times last year just by losing 1kg. It all counts!

even while not at peak condition he was still a fit player, capable of putting in a hard shift over the 90 minutes. We don't doubt that. However, now he's lost weight, how much better can he get?

It's a simple fact that more weight requires more oxygen & energy to carry. Look at Bradley Wiggins in this year's TdF, and he was already in superb condition. He probably went too far and can't sustain his TdF weight without compromising his health, but it's still illustrative.

Interesting article here:

http://thesportfactory.com/site/trainingnews/VO2_Max-_How_Big_is_Your_Engine.shtml

A simple analogy would be that your car would be less fuel efficient if the boot was full of suitcases.
I've lost a little under 4kg since the start of the year. Been scoring for fun in a weekly afterwork seven a side in recent weeks.

[Scram]

That fact that a professional sportsman needed to lose the guts of a stone and a half and has taken until now to do it is a travesty.

I hope to see him back in the squad by the way but his condiition over the last few years has held him back for club as well as country.

He lost that weight, doesn't mean he needed to!

Regradless ot the correctness of your statement, even a Fat Andy provides WAY more quality than a fit Miller and many more. He was obviously left out of the squad for more reasons than perceived fitness issues.

[geysir]

At the very least, a slimmer Reid playing for Sunderland regularily will effect a positive change in perception about the professional ambitions of the player, upon the Irish management.

[eirebhoy]

He's hardly set the world alight at Sunderland either which is why I said I was being generous with my "above bottom half" & I wasn't sure where Sunderand finished in when Reid went there first and so was giving him the benefit of the doubt.
I'd say there's a huge chance that Sunderland would have been relegated if they didn't sign Reid.

Aston Villa 0-1 Sunderland (http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/aston-villa-0-sunderland-1-keane-finds-ugly-business-of-survival-just-beautiful-799926.html)
"The team showed the measured calm and assurance of their manager: with Andy Reid dictating play in midfield, Sunderland created a succession of half-chances, only to be let down by a lack of confidence in front of goal."
Man of the match: Reid.

Sunderland 2-1 West Ham (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/mar/31/sport.sport4)
"While it may be pushing it to suggest that he is Sunderland's answer to Ferenc Puskas, few would deny that the Dubliner appears the antithesis of the "modern" Premier League midfielder. Or that Reid has transformed Keane's side since arriving from Charlton in January. Curvier, slower and generally less athletic than his more conventionally constructed counterparts he may be but Reid boasts the sharpest football brain and the best left foot in Sunderland's dressing room.

Like his manager he can see the bigger picture and routinely spots openings before anyone else. Able to deliver laser- like long-range passes with minimal backlift, he compensates lack of pace by the sort of adhesive touch that enables him to control and release the ball more quickly than most team-mates."
Man of the match Andy Reid The man whose vision and passing range has given Sunderland a hitherto missing creative edge which has inspired their recent renaissance. Typically Reid helped create the equaliser before wrapping up the points on the whistle

Fulham 1-3 Sunderland (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/apr/06/sport.sport1)
Reid 8/10

[LFCSixty/Eighty]

I'd say there's a huge chance that Sunderland would have been relegated if they didn't sign Reid.

Aston Villa 0-1 Sunderland (http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/aston-villa-0-sunderland-1-keane-finds-ugly-business-of-survival-just-beautiful-799926.html)
"The team showed the measured calm and assurance of their manager: with Andy Reid dictating play in midfield, Sunderland created a succession of half-chances, only to be let down by a lack of confidence in front of goal."
Man of the match: Reid.

Sunderland 2-1 West Ham (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/mar/31/sport.sport4)
"While it may be pushing it to suggest that he is Sunderland's answer to Ferenc Puskas, few would deny that the Dubliner appears the antithesis of the "modern" Premier League midfielder. Or that Reid has transformed Keane's side since arriving from Charlton in January. Curvier, slower and generally less athletic than his more conventionally constructed counterparts he may be but Reid boasts the sharpest football brain and the best left foot in Sunderland's dressing room.

Like his manager he can see the bigger picture and routinely spots openings before anyone else. Able to deliver laser- like long-range passes with minimal backlift, he compensates lack of pace by the sort of adhesive touch that enables him to control and release the ball more quickly than most team-mates."
Man of the match Andy Reid The man whose vision and passing range has given Sunderland a hitherto missing creative edge which has inspired their recent renaissance. Typically Reid helped create the equaliser before wrapping up the points on the whistle

Fulham 1-3 Sunderland (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/apr/06/sport.sport1)
Reid 8/10

I don't know how you get your information Eirebhoy, but you sure know how to back up your argument. The fact is Andy Reid could be just what we need in midfield to bring on, even if not to start (though IMO he should start) No one else can pick a pass in our squad like him. We all know its not over weight that Andy is not in the squad and I'll be damned if we don't manage to qualify because a stubborn old Italian man won't forgive and forget when the interests of our nations football team are at stake.

[Scram]

I don't know how you get your information Eirebhoy, but you sure know how to back up your argument. The fact is Andy Reid could be just what we need in midfield to bring on, even if not to start (though IMO he should start) No one else can pick a pass in our squad like him. We all know its not over weight that Andy is not in the squad and I'll be damned if we don't manage to qualify because a stubborn old Italian man won't forgive and forget when the interests of our nations football team are at stake.

I am just amazed at the number of posters in here who cannot recognise the abilities of Andy (plus or minus 5kg) mentioned above, and the absolute travesty of him not even being in our very limited squad.

[Stuttgart88]

I've lost a little under 4kg since the start of the year. Been scoring for fun in a weekly afterwork seven a side in recent weeks.
Told you!

[eirebhoy]

That Villa game mentioned a few posts up in the start of Sunderland's good run to keep them up was actually Reid's first game in the centre for Sunderland. Here's graphs of his passing from some of the games in his first season with Sunderland:

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/3076/reid2008.jpg

So that shows the positions he was in and how dominant he was. It looks like he was pretty much playing central midfield.

Then here's a run of games from the previous season with Charlton:

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/1528/reid2007.jpg

He a slightly different role there, probably with a starting position on the wing and the freedom to drift inside.

And then you have his most recent starts for Sunderland from last season, playing wide left:
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/6711/reid2009.jpg


Just to pick a few stats from his most dominant and least dominant games (starts).


Charlton 1-1 Everton
Reid successful passes: 51
Charlton successful passes: 331

Sunderland 2-1 West Ham
Reid successful passes: 37
Sunderland successful passes: 210

Sunderland 1-0 Hull
Reid successful passes: 15
Sunderland successful passes: 150

I haven't checked it completely but I think it's safe to say when Reid has played in the centre for his club they're far more likely to dominate. It's where he performs best, regularly winning motm, and I do think he's good enough to build a team around.

[NeilMcD]

In our own version of weight watchers I have lost 13kgs and I was injured for most of it.

[Drumcondra 69er]

He lost that weight, doesn't mean he needed to!

Regradless ot the correctness of your statement, even a Fat Andy provides WAY more quality than a fit Miller and many more. He was obviously left out of the squad for more reasons than perceived fitness issues.

I don't disagree with any of that. I would suggest he'll be a better, more effective player after losing the weight now though.

Fact is Trap possibly values hard running and energy in the type of game he has us playing as opposed to someone spraying passes round from midfield and not running more then 10 yards.

[Drumcondra 69er]

I'd say there's a huge chance that Sunderland would have been relegated if they didn't sign Reid.



I'd agree with that too. Doesn't mean he wasn't overweight though. And he did sod all the next season.

[eirebhoy]

I'd agree with that too. Doesn't mean he wasn't overweight though. And he did sod all the next season.
Out of position... By all means play him out wide but with the freedom to drift about. Not stuck on the left wing, it's just not his game.

[TerryPhelan]

The Guardian gave Reid a 9 and its man of the match award when Sunderland played Chelsea last season. The usual snide remarks to Reid being 'curvy' and 'unathletic' were made but, yet again, the guy's vision, composure and technical excellence meant he was the most impressive guy on the field. As for Trap preferring the hard-running industrious type for his central midfield, that is certainly evidenced by Andrews and Whelan, but it also has to be considered that Trap included Reid in his first few match squads as manager, including the qualifiers in Mainz and Podgorica. So, attitude aside, Trap clearly sees Andy as being good enough and as having some role to play (rumour has it that he had decided to use Reid as a sub against Montenegro, but the post-match shenanigans in Mainz changed his mind).